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Joe Cocker RIP


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Rare is the man who can cover the Beatles and make his version the definitive. This dude may not have been the greatest of songwriters, but he could sing the shit out of anything. The combination of gravel and smoothness in his voice was perfect. Not a guy I listen to all the time, but the sort of musical figure that just felt larger than life, like he'd never be gone...

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Keith Richards was 71 last week. I still can't believe that guy's still alive or is he? lol

If Keith Richards had been mortal, he wouldn't still be among us.
If you get guaranteed good clean shit many junkies live to a ripe old age, its not the drug alone that kills ya its greed mentality causing you to OD or its bad shit, good clean shit like they got it good.

William Burroughs had a theory that junkies that get a habit and quit and repeat the process tons are actually pretty healthy in that the cleaning up process i.e. the replacement of heroin dependent cells with clean ones actually had a regenerative effect on the human body.

He lived til 81 and i wager did easily as much shit as Keith.

Rare is the man who can cover the Beatles and make his version the definitive.

Alright alright, i know the mans died but lets not go mad here!

Edited by Lennie Godber
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Keith Richards was 71 last week. I still can't believe that guy's still alive or is he? lol

If Keith Richards had been mortal, he wouldn't still be among us.
If you get guaranteed good clean shit many junkies live to a ripe old age, its not the drug alone that kills ya its greed mentality causing you to OD or its bad shit, good clean shit like they got it good.

William Burroughs had a theory that junkies that get a habit and quit and repeat the process tons are actually pretty healthy in that the cleaning up process i.e. the replacement of heroin dependent cells with clean ones actually had a regenerative effect on the human body.

He lived til 81 and i wager did easily as much shit as Keith.

Rare is the man who can cover the Beatles and make his version the definitive.

Alright alright, i know the mans died but lets not go mad here!

You gonna tell me The Beatles version of Whih a Litlee Jelp is the definitibe?

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Keith Richards was 71 last week. I still can't believe that guy's still alive or is he? lol

If Keith Richards had been mortal, he wouldn't still be among us.
If you get guaranteed good clean shit many junkies live to a ripe old age, its not the drug alone that kills ya its greed mentality causing you to OD or its bad shit, good clean shit like they got it good.

William Burroughs had a theory that junkies that get a habit and quit and repeat the process tons are actually pretty healthy in that the cleaning up process i.e. the replacement of heroin dependent cells with clean ones actually had a regenerative effect on the human body.

He lived til 81 and i wager did easily as much shit as Keith.

Rare is the man who can cover the Beatles and make his version the definitive.

Alright alright, i know the mans died but lets not go mad here!

You gonna tell me The Beatles version of Whih a Litlee Jelp is the definitibe?

Yes, yes it fuckin' is! See you're gonna make me look a cunt on this poor mans death thread so I'm gonna make the following comments with the least possible amount of horribleness towards Mr Cocker but, me old cocker, the thing about With A Little Help is that it's meant to be like...a sing-a-long number, it's a not blues dirge, it's cute, it's something you sing on a pissed up coach trip, it's like one notch up from a lullaby, it's the perfect balance between like...pithy and sad, it's a really delicate balance. It's supremely original in that sense and like....American-izing it doesn't really offer it more than what it had already, in fact I'd go so far as to say it's a degenerative process for the song. He just turns it into a blues rock number...a good blues rock number but it's like...it kinda makes it one of a million instead of one in a million, there's enough about it in it's original form to make it interesting for a million years, instead of just being ANOTHER blues rock number.

Nobody ever did The Beatles better than The Beatles, ever.

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The bits i like best of that song, if i can remember it, i might be about to make myself look a twat here so bear with me, but yeah the best bits of that song, or the best bit is in the beginning when its just kinda his voice on it's own...and it kind of builds into a gospelley thing doesn't it, for the rest? Don't really do a lot for it i reckon. Anyway, I'll stop muddying up this thread with my pro-Beatles rhetoric.

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William Burroughs had a theory that junkies that get a habit and quit and repeat the process tons are actually pretty healthy in that the cleaning up process i.e. the replacement of heroin dependent cells with clean ones actually had a regenerative effect on the human body.

That doesn't sound right but I don't know enough about cells to dispute it.

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William Burroughs had a theory that junkies that get a habit and quit and repeat the process tons are actually pretty healthy in that the cleaning up process i.e. the replacement of heroin dependent cells with clean ones actually had a regenerative effect on the human body.

That doesn't sound right but I don't know enough about cells to dispute it.

Well more accurately what he said was if you could keep a person somehow in that regenerative 'kicking' state. The principle is still somewhat applicable though. At any rate it was just a theory.

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Keith Richards was 71 last week. I still can't believe that guy's still alive or is he? lol

If Keith Richards had been mortal, he wouldn't still be among us.
If you get guaranteed good clean shit many junkies live to a ripe old age, its not the drug alone that kills ya its greed mentality causing you to OD or its bad shit, good clean shit like they got it good.

William Burroughs had a theory that junkies that get a habit and quit and repeat the process tons are actually pretty healthy in that the cleaning up process i.e. the replacement of heroin dependent cells with clean ones actually had a regenerative effect on the human body.

He lived til 81 and i wager did easily as much shit as Keith.

Rare is the man who can cover the Beatles and make his version the definitive.

Alright alright, i know the mans died but lets not go mad here!

You gonna tell me The Beatles version of Whih a Litlee Jelp is the definitibe?

Yes, yes it fuckin' is! See you're gonna make me look a cunt on this poor mans death thread so I'm gonna make the following comments with the least possible amount of horribleness towards Mr Cocker but, me old cocker, the thing about With A Little Help is that it's meant to be like...a sing-a-long number, it's a not blues dirge, it's cute, it's something you sing on a pissed up coach trip, it's like one notch up from a lullaby, it's the perfect balance between like...pithy and sad, it's a really delicate balance. It's supremely original in that sense and like....American-izing it doesn't really offer it more than what it had already, in fact I'd go so far as to say it's a degenerative process for the song. He just turns it into a blues rock number...a good blues rock number but it's like...it kinda makes it one of a million instead of one in a million, there's enough about it in it's original form to make it interesting for a million years, instead of just being ANOTHER blues rock number.

Nobody ever did The Beatles better than The Beatles, ever.

So what you're saying is that the song is supposed to be meaningless fun, and Cocker made it interesting and ruined it, so the Beatles meaningless fun version is more definitive than Cocker's epic version? Got it. And I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment of the two recordings, and hence my original statement.

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Keith Richards was 71 last week. I still can't believe that guy's still alive or is he? lol

If Keith Richards had been mortal, he wouldn't still be among us.
If you get guaranteed good clean shit many junkies live to a ripe old age, its not the drug alone that kills ya its greed mentality causing you to OD or its bad shit, good clean shit like they got it good.

William Burroughs had a theory that junkies that get a habit and quit and repeat the process tons are actually pretty healthy in that the cleaning up process i.e. the replacement of heroin dependent cells with clean ones actually had a regenerative effect on the human body.

He lived til 81 and i wager did easily as much shit as Keith.

Rare is the man who can cover the Beatles and make his version the definitive.

Alright alright, i know the mans died but lets not go mad here!

You gonna tell me The Beatles version of Whih a Litlee Jelp is the definitibe?

Yes, yes it fuckin' is! See you're gonna make me look a cunt on this poor mans death thread so I'm gonna make the following comments with the least possible amount of horribleness towards Mr Cocker but, me old cocker, the thing about With A Little Help is that it's meant to be like...a sing-a-long number, it's a not blues dirge, it's cute, it's something you sing on a pissed up coach trip, it's like one notch up from a lullaby, it's the perfect balance between like...pithy and sad, it's a really delicate balance. It's supremely original in that sense and like....American-izing it doesn't really offer it more than what it had already, in fact I'd go so far as to say it's a degenerative process for the song. He just turns it into a blues rock number...a good blues rock number but it's like...it kinda makes it one of a million instead of one in a million, there's enough about it in it's original form to make it interesting for a million years, instead of just being ANOTHER blues rock number.

Nobody ever did The Beatles better than The Beatles, ever.

So what you're saying is that the song is supposed to be meaningless fun, and Cocker made it interesting and ruined it, so the Beatles meaningless fun version is more definitive than Cocker's epic version? Got it. And I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment of the two recordings, and hence my original statement.

You got that from what I wrote? :lol:

No, not at all, what I am saying is that there is character and originality to the other whereas Cockers one is essentially transplanting it into a pre-existing format and making it, at least musically, run of the mill, with the exceptional qualities being pretty much down to Cockers voice. THAT, is precisely what I'm saying.

Edited by Lennie Godber
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Alright, I guess that makes sense. Though I'm not sure I buy that the Beatles recording is all that more original in style or scope than Cocker's was. And if all it comes down to is the voice you're hearing sing? I will take Cocker over Ringo any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'm not sure either recording is all that innovative or original. But what I do know is that if you stop 100 people on the street and ask them to sing the chorus from With A Little Help From My Friends, you're gonna hear Joe's a hell of a lot more often. That, to me, tells you which is definitive.

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Alright, I guess that makes sense. Though I'm not sure I buy that the Beatles recording is all that more original in style or scope than Cocker's was. And if all it comes down to is the voice you're hearing sing? I will take Cocker over Ringo any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'm not sure either recording is all that innovative or original. But what I do know is that if you stop 100 people on the street and ask them to sing the chorus from With A Little Help From My Friends, you're gonna hear Joe's a hell of a lot more often. That, to me, tells you which is definitive.

Well in the context The Beatles are doing like a Victorian Music Hall set up in the context of a rock album, alright they sort of bluffed their way through it but we only know that cuz they told us, Sgt Peppers, With a Little help, Mr Kite, Reprise, these fit within the concept and thats how i've always understood With A Little Help and that to me is original, I mean listen to it, it's not your average rock song, it's an odd jaunty understated show-piece, if such a thing exists, an understated-show piece.

Is it down to the voice hearing it sing? Well yes but not in the sense that, oh, such and such hits higher notes or has a better range so his version is automatically better, at least it doesn't to me, it's about serving the song and the nature of what the song is better in a more unique way. I mean, for instance, Christina Aguilera is a better singer than Keith Moon but she ain't gonna pull off Bell Boy as good as him, is she? It's sort of like that, Ringo was never gonna be Mr Frontman but The Beatles picked the songs for him wickedly well, it's like everybodys uncle y'know, he's perfect for Act Naturally or What Goes On or this, he's not hindered by his limitations, the songs play on that and play on who he is and what he can do.

I think Cockers version was magnificent by the way, it was the theme for a TV show when i was growing up and I remember it cutting right through me even then, gave me goosebumps...I just don't think it's as good as The Beatles doin' it.

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I don't think the Help From My Friends record is better than the Sergent Pepper record. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a more perfect complete album than Pepper, save for Born to Run and a small handful of others. But if you're talking stand-alone song to stand-alone song, I don't think there is any debate over whose song is more impactful. It's gotta be Cocker.

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I don't think the Help From My Friends record is better than the Sergent Pepper record. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a more perfect complete album than Pepper, save for Born to Run and a small handful of others. But if you're talking stand-alone song to stand-alone song, I don't think there is any debate over whose song is more impactful. It's gotta be Cocker.

How long have you got?

Pepper is not even my favourite Beatles album.

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