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A dictator or forced into a position?


gnfnrs1972

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Hello again Marc. After reading both Slash and Duff ' s books they say they were into the booze and drugs and I have often wondered if they still helped in decisions of running the band. Or was Axl forced to make a lot of decisions by himself? I'm only referring to the business side of the band not the creative side.

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Oh, I don't have the first idea what I could mean. :lol:

Enjoy.

As an aside, though, how do you explain Axl saying he was forced to go on the UYI tour? That was one of the bands largest business undertakings in the 90s and it seems Axl didn't take charge of that at all.

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Maybe money doesn't matter to a drinker as much, but the drugs can go up tremendously with money. And I'm not trying to play the blame game with my first question. I've read both of their books and they admitted being trashed alot. As far as I know it didn't affect the business at all but I wondered and asked a man that might know. In the end they were all enabling one another instead of being friends.

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No doubt. But the money and the fame amplify the crazy. Duff and Slash pretty much got the same amount of drunk and stoned as always. :lol:

Duff's coke and alcohol abuse increased to an extreme point after they got famous and kept growing until he literally was at death's door.

Read his book. He was a major coke head, did crack, and drank to the point that to this day, he doesn't remember playing in certain countries. He knows he was there only because of the passport stamp. Just look at any picture of him in 1992/1993. Does he seem at all with it, healthy or of a sound mind to be making business decisions?

And who knows what Slash's alcohol intake was from '92 to '96, and if he used heroin in that period?

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Hello again Marc. After reading both Slash and Duff ' s books they say they were into the booze and drugs and I have often wondered if they still helped in decisions of running the band. Or was Axl forced to make a lot of decisions by himself? I'm only referring to the business side of the band not the creative side.

You lead by example. Now, was Axl a good example and leader? I´m afraid not. Doug Goldstein was their manager. Was he a leader? No, he was just an Axl yes man. So there was mostly anarchy. Slash and Duff didn´t know how to deal with all that so they didn´t deal with anything. They just got drunk and high.

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No doubt. But the money and the fame amplify the crazy. Duff and Slash pretty much got the same amount of drunk and stoned as always. :lol:

Sorry to butt in & I hope Marc comes on to answer the original question.

Maybe he could also answer why Steven was outed from the band due to his addiction to drugs when Duff & Slash were equally addicted to their alcohol/drugs? It's ironic they made him sign a contract saying he'd not get stoned & if he did he'd be out which of course ended up in the court case.

Yet the others were just as bad, why was it only Steven kicked out?

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No doubt. But the money and the fame amplify the crazy. Duff and Slash pretty much got the same amount of drunk and stoned as always. :lol:

Sorry to butt in & I hope Marc comes on to answer the original question.

Maybe he could also answer why Steven was outed from the band due to his addiction to drugs when Duff & Slash were equally addicted to their alcohol/drugs? It's ironic they made him sign a contract saying he'd not get stoned & if he did he'd be out which of course ended up in the court case.

Yet the others were just as bad, why was it only Steven kicked out?

They could function in the studio. He could not.

Also, according to Alan Niven, Steven wasn't able--even when sober--to master the more complicated drum parts for the UYI records and it was pissing Slash off.

So, a combo of factors. 90 takes of Civil War. Not able to get the new songs right and refusing to try. Refusing to clean up. Shooting Erin up with drugs. Steven was his own worst enemy.

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No doubt. But the money and the fame amplify the crazy. Duff and Slash pretty much got the same amount of drunk and stoned as always. :lol:

Sorry to butt in & I hope Marc comes on to answer the original question.

Maybe he could also answer why Steven was outed from the band due to his addiction to drugs when Duff & Slash were equally addicted to their alcohol/drugs? It's ironic they made him sign a contract saying he'd not get stoned & if he did he'd be out which of course ended up in the court case.

Yet the others were just as bad, why was it only Steven kicked out?

They could function in the studio. He could not.

Also, according to Alan Niven, Steven wasn't able--even when sober--to master the more complicated drum parts for the UYI records and it was pissing Slash off.

So, a combo of factors. 90 takes of Civil War. Not able to get the new songs right and refusing to try. Refusing to clean up. Shooting Erin up with drugs. Steven was his own worst enemy.

Thank you, when I read his book he denied shooting Erin up & I believed it.

Since then I've heard from so many people that it most likely did happen & it's possible he didn't even write the book himself.

He certainly was his own worst enemy & what a shame as it is very plain to me that he absolutely loved being in the band & really wanted to be accepted back. Yet he seemed to do and say everything wrong & got on the wrong side of the band even calling them hacks a couple of years ago. <_<

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No doubt. But the money and the fame amplify the crazy. Duff and Slash pretty much got the same amount of drunk and stoned as always. :lol:

Sorry to butt in & I hope Marc comes on to answer the original question.

Maybe he could also answer why Steven was outed from the band due to his addiction to drugs when Duff & Slash were equally addicted to their alcohol/drugs? It's ironic they made him sign a contract saying he'd not get stoned & if he did he'd be out which of course ended up in the court case.

Yet the others were just as bad, why was it only Steven kicked out?

They could function in the studio. He could not.

Also, according to Alan Niven, Steven wasn't able--even when sober--to master the more complicated drum parts for the UYI records and it was pissing Slash off.

So, a combo of factors. 90 takes of Civil War. Not able to get the new songs right and refusing to try. Refusing to clean up. Shooting Erin up with drugs. Steven was his own worst enemy.

Thank you, when I read his book he denied shooting Erin up & I believed it.

Since then I've heard from so many people that it most likely did happen & it's possible he didn't even write the book himself.

He certainly was his own worst enemy & what a shame as it is very plain to me that he absolutely loved being in the band & really wanted to be accepted back. Yet he seemed to do and say everything wrong & got on the wrong side of the band even calling them hacks a couple of years ago. <_<

Think about it this way.

What is a quick way to find yourself out of Guns N' Roses? Get on Axl's bad side.

What's a REALLY quick way to get on Axl's bad side? Nearly kill his wife.

Steven did that.

And then, he went and pissed off his best friend Slash by lying to him repeatedly about his drug use, not being willing to play the new songs the way the rest of the band wanted them to be played, and alienated even the less tyrannical members by failing at being a drug addict.

Not only that, but unless it's Led Zeppelin, the drummer is thought of as expendable. Steven had his fans, but he wasn't as iconic as Axl or Slash. He wasn't as important to the band's functioning as Izzy. He wasn't the lovable drunk that Duff was, and Duff also had the benefit of being close to both Slash AND Axl. Steven was Slash's boy and once Slash's patience with him was gone, the days of him being a Gunner were numbered. And the rest of the band knew they could continue on without him successfully, both commercially and creatively. He wasn't a writer, and he wasn't integral to the band's success or image in the way the others were. He was expendable, and didn't help himself at any point.

Suing the band 2 years later did him no favors, either.

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Slash did take care of a lot of the things it took to keep the band on tour. Slash was always a hard working member of the band. He was also the one who did most of the press stuff.

A separate question Marc, but:

What is your personal beliefs about the alleged Erin-Steven speedball incident? Do you believe Axl's version, that Steven shot her up against her will, or Steven's that he was helping her and she'd asked him to help her try it out?

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No doubt. But the money and the fame amplify the crazy. Duff and Slash pretty much got the same amount of drunk and stoned as always. :lol:

Sorry to butt in & I hope Marc comes on to answer the original question.

Maybe he could also answer why Steven was outed from the band due to his addiction to drugs when Duff & Slash were equally addicted to their alcohol/drugs? It's ironic they made him sign a contract saying he'd not get stoned & if he did he'd be out which of course ended up in the court case.

Yet the others were just as bad, why was it only Steven kicked out?

They could play fucked up, and he couldn't. They were more functional in life, in general, even when completely fucked up, than Steven was. Steven, in my opinion, got broken as a teenager through no fault of his own. He was a sweet, naive, not extremely intelligent kid with a pretty face in a dangerous city. A good drummer who never could've handled success in a normal bad, much less a band like GnR.

He does have his asshole aspects. Some of the things he's said about women--recently, as an older man--were just stupid. But, as I said, he's not a smart guy.

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No doubt. But the money and the fame amplify the crazy. Duff and Slash pretty much got the same amount of drunk and stoned as always. :lol:

Sorry to butt in & I hope Marc comes on to answer the original question.

Maybe he could also answer why Steven was outed from the band due to his addiction to drugs when Duff & Slash were equally addicted to their alcohol/drugs? It's ironic they made him sign a contract saying he'd not get stoned & if he did he'd be out which of course ended up in the court case.

Yet the others were just as bad, why was it only Steven kicked out?

They could play fucked up, and he couldn't. They were more functional in life, in general, even when completely fucked up, than Steven was. Steven, in my opinion, got broken as a teenager through no fault of his own. He was a sweet, naive, not extremely intelligent kid with a pretty face in a dangerous city. A good drummer who never could've handled success in a normal bad, much less a band like GnR.

He does have his asshole aspects. Some of the things he's said about women--recently, as an older man--were just stupid. But, as I said, he's not a smart guy.

Thanks for that. I don't know what he said about women but I could argue with him till the cows come home by the sounds of it.

Difference is that all the men in my life have been lovely, not had a problem with any friends or family. So guess I'd be on the loser side of a debate there.

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Sorry but I think you´re seeing the tree and not the forest when it comes to Steven Adler. Was he expendable? Yes, but Axl has shown us that everyone is expendable.

At that time Adler might have not been position to play UYI songs. But right now we have Frank Ferrer playing them. So it seems to me that Adler is perfectly caplable to play those songs as well. Of course it will require him to take it serious and be a professional. But UYI songs are not impossible for him to play them properly.

As for the Erin issue, well she was having a breakdown. That wasn´t Steven´s fault. Maybe he should´ve handled it better. And maybe Erin could´ve handled her own problems better. But Adler had to face an emergency situation and he freak out.

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No doubt. But the money and the fame amplify the crazy. Duff and Slash pretty much got the same amount of drunk and stoned as always. :lol:

Sorry to butt in & I hope Marc comes on to answer the original question.

Maybe he could also answer why Steven was outed from the band due to his addiction to drugs when Duff & Slash were equally addicted to their alcohol/drugs? It's ironic they made him sign a contract saying he'd not get stoned & if he did he'd be out which of course ended up in the court case.

Yet the others were just as bad, why was it only Steven kicked out?

They could play fucked up, and he couldn't. They were more functional in life, in general, even when completely fucked up, than Steven was. Steven, in my opinion, got broken as a teenager through no fault of his own. He was a sweet, naive, not extremely intelligent kid with a pretty face in a dangerous city. A good drummer who never could've handled success in a normal bad, much less a band like GnR.

He does have his asshole aspects. Some of the things he's said about women--recently, as an older man--were just stupid. But, as I said, he's not a smart guy.

Thanks for that. I don't know what he said about women but I could argue with him till the cows come home by the sounds of it.

Difference is that all the men in my life have been lovely, not had a problem with any friends or family. So guess I'd be on the loser side of a debate there.

He was on Howard Stern recently - last couple of years - talking about one of the times he and Izzy and one of the others were fucking a groupie. Stern says he's surprised that all those years of groupie fucking didn't result in any babies, and Steven says "that's what the face is for!"

And he's painted rather unflatteringly in The Last Living Slut, the book by the groupie who got pregnant w/Dizzy Reed's kid. If a woman admits to sleeping - and falling in love - with Dizzy Reed, I'm inclined to take her word for other stuff b/c that's some painful honesty right there.

(In several places she talks about how unattractive Izzy is, which might explain why she ended up with Dizzy.)

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No doubt. But the money and the fame amplify the crazy. Duff and Slash pretty much got the same amount of drunk and stoned as always. :lol:

Sorry to butt in & I hope Marc comes on to answer the original question.

Maybe he could also answer why Steven was outed from the band due to his addiction to drugs when Duff & Slash were equally addicted to their alcohol/drugs? It's ironic they made him sign a contract saying he'd not get stoned & if he did he'd be out which of course ended up in the court case.

Yet the others were just as bad, why was it only Steven kicked out?

They could play fucked up, and he couldn't. They were more functional in life, in general, even when completely fucked up, than Steven was. Steven, in my opinion, got broken as a teenager through no fault of his own. He was a sweet, naive, not extremely intelligent kid with a pretty face in a dangerous city. A good drummer who never could've handled success in a normal bad, much less a band like GnR.

He does have his asshole aspects. Some of the things he's said about women--recently, as an older man--were just stupid. But, as I said, he's not a smart guy.

Thanks for that. I don't know what he said about women but I could argue with him till the cows come home by the sounds of it.

Difference is that all the men in my life have been lovely, not had a problem with any friends or family. So guess I'd be on the loser side of a debate there.

He was on Howard Stern recently - last couple of years - talking about one of the times he and Izzy and one of the others were fucking a groupie. Stern says he's surprised that all those years of groupie fucking didn't result in any babies, and Steven says "that's what the face is for!"

And he's painted rather unflatteringly in The Last Living Slut, the book by the groupie who got pregnant w/Dizzy Reed's kid. If a woman admits to sleeping - and falling in love - with Dizzy Reed, I'm inclined to take her word for other stuff b/c that's some painful honesty right there.

(In several places she talks about how unattractive Izzy is, which might explain why she ended up with Dizzy.)

Ok so I'm confused, am I reading this right that a groupie got pregnant with Dizzy's kid? Is this the woman he's married to now, I saw a photo of him with 2 beautiful daughters.

It seems Steven doesn't know when to shut up, he just keeps putting his foot in his mouth & alienating himself from people. Was/is Steven a great drummer? I can't tell but the fact that nobody seems to be knocking on his door constantly offering him jobs in big name groups indicates he's maybe average. I don't have a musical ear but I do love watching drummers, they really give out lots of ongoing energy during performances.

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