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Stern's first impression of Chinese Democracy


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http://youtu.be/l9YSoZcGcBI

Anyone else have similar reactions when they got to listen to the album for the first time?

If not what were some of your impressions then and now?

Also listening to this makes me feel crazy for liking a lot of the songs on CD. Like I've been brainwashed

At the same time they get to the end and Howard says he would probably buy something like this and Robin feels there is nothing new. I think a lot of people went in with Robin's attitude of "this album better revolutionize music!" I think it missed a lot of fans like that.

Edited by IncitingChaos
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I never cared for the higher vocals on the album. I have developed a liking for catcher in the rye, but I wish there was a remix version with lower raspy vocals...

I was also talking about shackler's in another thread. It's a song I hated at first but seeing Axl perform it changes everything! The song is great live

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I find myself liking the live versions where the song have been stripped down to just a couple guitars and bass, no drum loops with extra computerized bass lines and heaps of all the numerous and different different guitarists reverbs all layered onto each but essentially all playing the same notes. Gimme Ron n fortus with a couple guitars and Stinson with a toned down bass just to keep the groove and its a whole different album as far as I'm concerned.

The vocals tho, I dunno what to do or say about those. Loved them in better and there was a time, disappointed with them tho in stuff like catcher in the rye and rhiad and the Bedouins. A lot of the time I just lose them or they make me need to rub my ears from the that weird high pitched verse where a lower and more growly take would have fit much better. To be honest I wish he had used the voice he brought out on stage during those 2006 shows, man that was a good year for axl.

Edited by RockerRoller
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It's not like Howard gave the album a serious listen when he talked about it on the show. It's only recently he started doing interviews more about the music when he's had guests on. I also think some of the guests that have never been on before have been going on because he's probably retiring in the next few years.

At this point, he could care less if he has Axl on but if he has a new album in the works, hopefully he will go on the show to promote it, have the band play songs in the studio and have a good time. It don't really matter....

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Any opinions on Stern playing bits of the album and the comments?

I thought the part was interesting where they said Slash had just been on and said Buckethead was only a really technical guitar player but lacks soul.

It's not like Howard gave the album a serious listen when he talked about it on the show. It's only recently he started doing interviews more about the music when he's had guests on. I also think some of the guests that have never been on before have been going on because he's probably retiring in the next few years.

At this point, he could care less if he has Axl on but if he has a new album in the works, hopefully he will go on the show to promote it, have the band play songs in the studio and have a good time. It don't really matter....

http://youtu.be/DU8goBx-JBY

I think Stern would love to have Axl on. He really likes Guns N Roses. He always pushes the Slash Axl break up though.

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It's not like he was giving it a proper review. CD has its issues but I still really enjoy it. I can't see Axl going on Stern either although I dunno it seems Axl has mellowed a bit in the last few years. I'm not a huge fan of Stern but the interview he did with Roger Waters from Floyd a while back was incredible and managed to get Waters to talk about stuff he hasn't with other interviewers.

Personally though I think Marc Maron is the best interviewer at the moment - he gets people to open up without doing Stern's being an asshole act.

Edited by BassistSeb
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The leaks kick the final version's asses.

On the album itself, Ron filled up almost every gap in half the songs with directionless noodling and while I love the leaks I can't stomach the album versions of the title track, IRS and Rhiad.

I agree. I find also that the leaks were mixed better and sound much better on my house and car stereos. Find myself listening to those more than the album versions honestly.

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CD's main problem is that it is the work of a defeated man, and the lyrics show this. This album is Axl trying to overcome his depression in the late '90s. And if you're depressed, very depressed, it's uplifting. But there's nothing 'badass' or triumphant about the album, and I think that is a problem as well. Just thematically. It feels very self indulgent, more like Axl wrote these songs for himself and as therapy for himself rather than for you. Sort of like John Lennon's later solo records where the records were basically just about him and Yoko's marriage and not really anything for outsiders.

The other main problem is each song was cut and pasted in the studio from different parts stretching across numerous years. One guitar bit in say, Chinese D the song, might have been recorded in 1999 with one guy; the next moment might have been recorded in a different take in 2006 and then spliced into the song. The human ear picks up things like this. When I listen to Chinese D, I hear good songs that are something unnatural I can't quite put my finger on and thus off-putting. Normally, I should love songs like Shackler's Revenge (I love industrial rock and love Axl's approach to it) but it doesn't feel "right".

Thirdly, every direction Axl's given us has been done, and more inventively. GN'R's thing was they sounded like a bunch of bands cobbled together yes...But they also sounded like themselves. I've not come across a song that sounds anything like Rocket Queen, even in the dirtiest Stones or Aerosmith songs. No matter how many Elton songs or "power ballads" I listen to, there isn't anything quite like November Rain. Whereas...Going back to Shackler's for a minute, if I want to hear a more innovative, better mixed version of that song, I can go listen to early Rob Zombie.

Fourth, the vocals are wildly inconsistent. This is fine when it is raspy. The UYI vox are far from consistent in their sound, but they sound consistently good. I'm not a fan of Axl's high pitched falsetto on for example If The World. It kills a song I otherwise would've loved.

Honestly, of the album, the songs I actually love and feel are classics are:
Better
Rhiad
This I Love

TWAT

Those songs are great, even with the overproduction.

The UYIs, while 'overproduced', were still the band playing in the studio and then Axl coming and laying vocals over them later, which is a very common approach in music.

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As for my opinion on Stern's "review" (or whatever) of the album, it was already considered a joke before it came out so it's no big surprise they just played a little bit of the start of each song and rubbished it.

On the radio here, they played the single (title track) a couple of times when it came out, asked people what they thought and the response was overwhelmingly "it sucks" and it's never been played again.

Miser raised a good point, there is too much "woe is me" on the album, most folks associate GNR with ass kicking, good time rock and fucking roll and a nice ballad every so often to temper it.

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Nah, Guns were never "good time" rock n' roll, they were more intelligent than that, their music was very good at illustrating the darker side to the lifestyle that Motley Crue, Cinderella, Poison etc. mindlessly celebrated.

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I'd hope people don't review an album like Stern, by listening to the first 15 seconds of the track to decide if you like it or not then skip to the next track :lol:

ChiDem has a lot of songs that could be considered classics with age, but the common crowd will only know the band for Appetite for Destruction

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The first time I heard the full album I was pretty confused :) but! this is not an instant classic, you have to listen to it all the way through a few times because it's so layered and different that you can't get the full picture by just listening to 10 seconds of each song. I would disagree with most of what they had to say about the album, but I would also say a lot of people viewed the album this way and that is why a lot of people hate it. I listened to the album, I really wanted to like it, and at first I didn't know if it was something I could get into because it was so different (If the world/shacklers revenge, for example) but I kept listening to it and I discovered one of my favourite records. It's not perfect, it has more than a few flaws (overloaded with layers of gtrs and synth and multi-tracked vocals) and some questionable track inclusions (Rhiad/scraped).

Someone mentioned brainwashing yourself into liking it, I think that's valid in a lot of cases, but if you really don't like something you won't put the effort in to listen to it enough that you might achieve brainwashed status. For example I hate when Axl sings in the British accent on Down on the farm... It's horrible so I avoid it and only listen to it to show other people and laugh, I don't need to like everything gnr related, it would have sucked if I didn't like the album though. At the end of the day if you like a song, you don't have to overthink it, just enjoy, who cares what reviewers or other fans say, you should know what you like and that should be all that matters.

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The leaks kick the final version's asses.

On the album itself, Ron filled up almost every gap in half the songs with directionless noodling and while I love the leaks I can't stomach the album versions of the title track, IRS and Rhiad.

Ron made The song Chinese Democracy so much better with his fretless heavy rock feel, the original song had a lot of space in the verses but CD was a hard rock song... it wouldn't be half as popular now if it stayed in its demo form. I can understand people getting attached to demo's, but at the end of the day they are just demo's, non finished versions of songs, Axl and the band decided to keep developing them and that's their choice. Rhiad is just a bad song, and IRS sounds pretty close to the 2006 leak although I haven't listened to the leak since the actual version was released... I think Ron made it a heavier rock song, and that's a good thing, CD was far too light over all, too many ballads and not enough hard rockers, he gave the songs some grittiness and snarl.

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Have never liked the song Chinese Democracy.

Love the album. For me, it is just as good as either Illusion. I listen to it more today than I listen to either Illusion.

Certainly has its flaws. With less tinkering, I truly think CD would have been huge and universally loved. If it was more bare bones and raw and released in 2000, I have no doubt it would have sold 10 million copies.

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Democracy is a solid song but I wouldn't have wanted a full record like it, even though it more or less ticks all the 'we want no thrills rock n' roll again' boxes if you take the overlong and rather underwhelming build up out. Riad is different and I personally dig it, it's a rocker but a weird ass one. Better is a nicely balanced heavier cut and Prostitute and Shackler's are utter contrasts but they certainly thrash out some venom. Then there's TWAT which is the ultimate rock ballad of the modern Axl until we get The General. There's plenty of rock n' roll seeping from the album, the solos are stupendous it's just the lack of discernible riffs for me.

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