Best American Rock Band

[Len Cnut]

Serious, The Sonics, are you sure?

Everyone needs to go out and buy Lenny Kayes Nuggets. As endorsed by Lenny Bastard, in the person of myself, for i am he For a serious lesson in American rock n roll.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Len B'stard

[J Dog]

I know some will say I'm stretching it, but if you look at their history, Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers.

I'd put Nirvana in there too

And Lynyrd Skynyrd

[ZoSoRose]

The Velvet Underground to name another

Creedence Clearwater Revival to name yet another

I'm not a fan of bands like The Stooges and I don't know a lot of the Velvet Underground

But god damn do I love CCR!

[Sixes]

Serious, The Sonics, are you sure?

Everyone needs to go out and buy Lenny Kayes Nuggets. As endorsed by Lenny Bastard, in the person of myself, for i am he

Yes sir. They've already released a song from the album.

Nuggets is essential for any serious fan of rock music to have in their collection. ESSENTIAL.

And speaking of Lenny Kaye, the Patti Smith Group are no slouches either

[Len Cnut]

I cant get on with Patti Smith...

the boy looked at johnny

and johnny wanted to run

the movie was moving and groovy was groovin' and THE LOCKER, THE LOCKER, THE LOCKER, THE LOCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's like ARRRRRRGH, what are you talking about you mad bitch?!?!

They say when Patti Smith came to England they played the Roundhouse and The Pistols were down the Roxy the next night and Rotten said, onstage:

'Did ya see the old 'ippies down at the Rainbow? 'orses, 'orses, horseshit!'

Charming fellow She went and saw The Clash once and jumped up onstage and went mental dancing and Simmo nearly knocked her out cuz he thought it was a bloke

Edited March 18, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Sixes]

I cant get on with Patti Smith...

the boy looked at johnny

and johnny wanted to run

the movie was moving and groovy was groovin' and THE LOCKER, THE LOCKER, THE LOCKER, THE LOCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's like ARRRRRRGH, what are you talking about you mad bitch?!?!

They say when Patti Smith came to England they played the Roundhouse and The Pistols were down the Roxy the next night and Rotten said, onstage:

'Did ya see the old 'ippies down at the Rainbow? 'orses, 'orses, horseshit!'

Charming fellow She went and saw The Clash once and jumped up onstage and went mental dancing and Simmo nearly knocked her out cuz he thought it was a bloke

new Sonics song....

[downzy]

The Ramones...absolutely undeniably The Ramones, over and above any other American band that ever existed.

Along with the Beastie Boys, one of the most overrated bands ever.

I guess personally you can say that and it cant be true but in terms of being the best American group, scope of influence etc, its difficult to deny them. Unless the question meant who you LIKE best, in which case i couldn't answer.

The OP is asking what is the best American rock band. Credit is due for running counter to the larger musical narrative at the time, but for me, that's about it. Maybe two decent and well recognized songs (Blitzkrieg Pop and I Wanna Be Sedated - not including Hey Ho, Let's Go because it's the same fucking some as Blitzkrieg Pop), but we're looking at a band that contained a singer who really couldn't sing and a bunch of musicians who were hardly tops of their class. Influential, sure. But the best American band? Not a fucking chance. If this was asking who the most influential American act is, we'd have to go with Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, etc..

And the Dolls and the Stooges deserve far more credit for the punk sound, in my opinion, than the Ramones. Nobody really celebrated them while they were still playing and alive like they do today. It's only been in the last ten years that they've been elevated to some Godly status that I think is better reserved for bands like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and a few others.

In my opinion the Ramones are a band that's used as a fashion accessory by a younger generation. One that is bereft of their own genuine music identity that haphazardly latches on to the aesthetic more so than the actual cause and music of seminal bands from their parents (or soon grandparents) day and age. Ask the random 17 year old walking around with a Ramones t-shirt and my bet is they'd be hard pressed to name one Ramones song.

[Sixes]

The Funk Brothers

[Słash]

Aerosmith

Led Zeppelin

Deep Purple (Even though they had so many line up changes)

Guns N' Roses (AFD and UYI Lineup)

[ZoSoRose]

Aerosmith

Led Zeppelin

Deep Purple (Even though they had so many line up changes)

Guns N' Roses (AFD and UYI Lineup)

[Sixes]

Prince & The Revolution

[CheapJon]

EDIT- Yes, I left GNR off. They COULD have been up there, but they broke up before they reached it. Too bad, so sad.

Reached what? You asked for best and not biggest/greatest.

Bon Jovi, REM, Eagles and so on? Get'a fuck outta here.

[Len Cnut]

The OP is asking what is the best American rock band.

Thats what i mean, how do you quantify best? Do you mean like who you like personally, in that case it cant really be debated. You mean like most important as in they did the most for music? Were that the case The Ramones would be WAY up there.

but we're looking at a band that contained a singer who really couldn't sing and a bunch of musicians who were hardly tops of their class.

Do you have to be able to be a singer singer singer to front a rock n roll band though? Not really. As far as their musicianship, The Ramones were fantastic, they were as tight a unit as you could possibly imagine and Johnny Ramone created his own style of guitar playing, which he perfected, there is nobody on this planet that could play guitar like Johnny Ramone, nobody. I've actually had this debate previously with another guitar player on here where we even got to the point of them saying they'd prove how easy it was to play like Johnny Ramone...and you know what, they couldn't and apart from that I'd bet money that you could take a guitar player out of Julliard and ask him to run through a Ramones set and he'd be dead in the water inside of 15 mins.

But the best American band? Not a fucking chance. If this was asking who the most influential American act is, we'd have to go with Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, etc..

None of those are a band though. Except The Crickets and you've only mentioned Buddy.

And the Dolls and the Stooges deserve far more credit for the punk sound, in my opinion, than the Ramones.

You think so? Cuz the template for it, fast songs, no solos, bangin' em out, high speed, the Ramones created that.

Nobody really celebrated them while they were still playing and alive like they do today.

But then you don't really eulogise a genre while it's still around and growing, do you? They're celebrated now because the broader picture is apparent. Also, they were very celebrated in their time. They came over to England as an unknown band from America and sold out The Rainbow, 90% of the key figures of the british punk movement were at that gig and have credited them as being immensely important to them, as have just about any of the American Hardcore bands who treat their gigs as seminal moments in their lives.

In my opinion the Ramones are band that's used as a fashion accessory by a younger generation. One that is bereft of their own genuine music identity that haphazardly latches on to the more the aesthetic, and less the actual cause and music, of seminal bands from their parents (or soon grandparents) day and age. Ask the random 17 year old walking around with a Ramones t-shirt and my bet is they'd be hard pressed to name one Ramones song.

I dunno, maybe you're right, I wouldn't know about that to be honest.

[Sixes]

I can remember The Ramones being put on a pedestal and seen as Gods in the 80's by fans of metal, new wave, college rock, punk, goth rock, hardcore, and early industrial. They were the only band that I can remember as being seen that way by such a cross section of fans.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Sixes

[downzy]

My main point is that if you're going to say that The Ramones are the greatest American band ever, I'd be pretty insulted if I were an American. Really? That's the best American Rock N' Roll has given the world? The Ramones were a one trick pony that managed to squeak out two decent songs that are generally recognizable to a broader and casual listener base. Many bands were celebrated prior to their eventual demise, but the Ramones benefit immensely from nostalgic overtures.

I suppose if we were limiting our conversation to simply punk I'd be more inclined to agree. But we're talking about the broader category of rock. Another way of looking at it is, can a band do what another band does? Many bands could play a Ramones song, not sure if the Ramones could pull off Welcome to the Jungle by GNR or Even Flow by Pearl Jam.

Speaking of which, my vote for best American band would probably go to Pearl Jam (though my favourite is GNR, of course).

[Sixes]

Pearl Jam are a contender for sure

[Len Cnut]

My main point is that if you're going to say that The Ramones are the greatest American band ever, I'd be pretty insulted if I were an American. Really? That's the best American Rock N' Roll has given the world? The Ramones were a one trick pony that managed to squeak out two decent songs that are generally recognizable to a broader and casual listener base.

So your thing is based on the fact that they didn't have hits? We still haven't cleared up what is meant by 'best' American band either. And yeah, one trick pony, definitely...and that one trick was rock n roll and thats what we're trying to get at who is the best at. Also, a lot of why they didn't have hits is the fact that rock radio wouldn't touch em with a barge-pole, not cuz they didn't make catchy 3 minute pop songs that'd set the world on fire but because they were under that punk label.

Another way of looking at is, can a band do what another band does. Many bands could play a Ramones song

Anyone can play a Ramones song, few can play a Ramones song LIKE The Ramones played it...and that was their thing, it was tight, it was all downpicking, it was played at breakneck speed and they never flubbed shit. Like i said, you think it's easy, find a band, a good band...and have em do it. Some of these guys don't even have the strength of hand and wrist to pull that shit off. The Ramones didn't play the way they did cuz they were stupid, they played that way cuz they liked it, nothing that that band did on stage was incidental or superfluous, right down to the way they even moved in formation, a hell of a lot of thought went into what they did. Fuck, Johnny used to time their fuckin' sets so he'd know when they were like...42 seconds slower or faster than the last gig. Don't be fooled by the look.

And any way, so musicianship is what we're judging as 'the best' now? Well in that case you can wipe most of the bands we've discussed off the chart cuz these aren't really musos in that sense and few are in rock n roll.

Still not settled on that criteria is for 'best', since influence seems to be being approached with somethin of a dim view.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Ragnar]

Don`t know about the best but The Pixies has to be right up there amongst greats.

[Sixes]

Don`t know about the best but The Pixies has to be right up there amongst greats.

damn, was just about to list them

[downzy]

@ Len

You're right, best is a relative concept. But how myself, and I would imagine the OP, considers the term is as such: musical talent + variety in composition + broad base appeal = best.

Most people consider The Beatles the best rock band of all time because they had a tremendous amount of musical talent, could compose many different styles of songs, and were able to appeal to a broad slice of the music listening public.

It is in that sense that I think a band like the Ramones are extremely overrated within the larger context of America's best band. Sure, they were great at what they did, but their composition was very limited. If that was your thing, then great, but they had little in winning over fans who weren't into the punk sound, unlike a band like The Clash.

And I disagree that their problem was that terrestrial radio wouldn't play their other songs. If they're going to play Blitzkrieg Pop and I Want to Be Sedated, why would they pass on other songs by The Ramones? Not sure what radio is like in the UK, but those two songs have been played fairly regularly for a very long time.

[Len Cnut]

And I disagree that their problem was that terrestrial radio wouldn't play their other songs. If they're going to play Blitzkrieg Pop and I Want to Be Sedated, why would they pass on other songs by The Ramones? Not sure what radio is like in the UK, but those two songs have been played fairly regularly for a very long time.

i meant like in the 70s, when they were coming up they couldn't get played so they couldn't make hits.

The way i quantify best is when you look at everything from a birdseye view, the whole scope of the history of American rock n roll, which is the most important and did the most to inform what the thing is.

musical talent + variety in composition + broad base appeal = best.

Apart from musical talent none of the others factor in for me at all. Guess it just shows how differently people see this kinda shit.

Don`t know about the best but The Pixies has to be right up there amongst greats.

Well shit in my grandmothers mouth if i didn't miss out one of my favorite bands, damn, yes, The Pixies!

[ZoSoRose]

@ Len

You're right, best is a relative concept. But how myself, and I would imagine the OP, considers the term is as such: musical talent + variety in composition + broad base appeal = best.

Most people consider The Beatles the best rock band of all time because they had a tremendous amount of musical talent, could compose many different styles of songs, and were able to appeal to a broad slice of the music listening public.

It is in that sense that I think a band like the Ramones are extremely overrated within the larger context of America's best band. Sure, they were great at what they did, but their composition was very limited. If that was your thing, then great, but they had little in winning over fans who weren't into the punk sound, unlike a band like The Clash.

And I disagree that their problem was that terrestrial radio wouldn't play their other songs. If they're going to play Blitzkrieg Pop and I Want to Be Sedated, why would they pass on other songs by The Ramones? Not sure what radio is like in the UK, but those two songs have been played fairly regularly for a very long time.

Yeah that sounds fair. I didnt have a definition for beat when i did the thread

[Sixes]

@ Len

You're right, best is a relative concept. But how myself, and I would imagine the OP, considers the term is as such: musical talent + variety in composition + broad base appeal = best.

Most people consider The Beatles the best rock band of all time because they had a tremendous amount of musical talent, could compose many different styles of songs, and were able to appeal to a broad slice of the music listening public.

It is in that sense that I think a band like the Ramones are extremely overrated within the larger context of America's best band. Sure, they were great at what they did, but their composition was very limited. If that was your thing, then great, but they had little in winning over fans who weren't into the punk sound, unlike a band like The Clash.

And I disagree that their problem was that terrestrial radio wouldn't play their other songs. If they're going to play Blitzkrieg Pop and I Want to Be Sedated, why would they pass on other songs by The Ramones? Not sure what radio is like in the UK, but those two songs have been played fairly regularly for a very long time.

They did win fans of other rock genres. As I stated earlier, The Ramones were held in high regard by metal, new wave, goth, college rock (which was labeled alternative years later), hardcore and industrial fans. They are the only band that I remember from that period that was able to have such a cross section of fans. They were the 1 band that fans of those genres could agree upon without arguing.

Why did radio pass on the rest of their catalog? Who knows, but that can be said about hundreds of successful and/or influential bands. How many hits have Pearl Jam had, for instance? Not many. Why has radio passed on the rest of their catalog? That's just the way it goes.

Smashing Pumpkins are one of the most successful and influential bands of the past 20 years...not many hits though. How many hits have Radiohead had? Maybe they have a bunch of well known songs, as PJ do, as Ramones do, but not legitimate big selling singles. Not every band can be The Beatles or Madonna whom radio and people that bought their 45's embraced. It doesn't make them less talented or less "best".

And on another note, I do not consider The Beatles to be the best rock band of all time. But that's for another thread at another time!

[ZoSoRose]

And on another note, I do not consider The Beatles to be the best rock band of all time. But that's for another thread at another time!

[OmarBradley]

I've actually had this debate previously with another guitar player on here where we even got to the point of them saying they'd prove how easy it was to play like Johnny Ramone...and you know what, they couldn't and apart from that I'd bet money that you could take a guitar player out of Julliard and ask him to run through a Ramones set and he'd be dead in the water inside of 15 mins.

Lies, fabrication, this never happened. I recall the argument being about whether or not I can play Billy Bob Thornton songs, to which I egregiously won.

Yes, Uncle Len taught me a lesson. He is right, The Ramones were rhythmically tight, and Johnny had a right hand that rivals the best metal players. I still am not a fan, and I definitely wouldn't call them the best American rock band, but they deserve more serious musical credit than most people (who aren't already fans) give them.

Edited March 18, 2015 by OmarBradley