Tidal: Jay-Z buys streaming service, makes it arist owned

[J Dog]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/31/business/media/jay-z-reveals-plans-for-tidal-a-streaming-music-service.html

No free version, subscription only.

$10 per month compressed format/$20 per month CD quality

Artist will own the company. Rihanna, Kanye, Madonna, Daft Punk, Arcade Fire, Alicia Keys, Jack White were at press conference as owners

Jigga is stanky rich

[Crazyman]

I would never pay for this, but it's a great investment by Jay. He'll see profit on this in no time considering what he paid for it.

I wonder if he got the idea when Taylor Swift pulled her music off Spotify?

[Jakey Styley]

If he thinks that he can compete with Spotify and Apple/Dre's Beats service at that price point then he's got another thing coming.

[J Dog]

I would never pay for this, but it's a great investment by Jay. He'll see profit on this in no time considering what he paid for it.

I wonder if he got the idea when Taylor Swift pulled her music off Spotify?

I don't see many people at all wanting to pay for this. And Jay is a hustler, he will make a profit for sure. He claims he was already working on this deal before Taylor pulled her move.

If he thinks that he can compete with Spotify and Apple/Dre's Beats service at that price point then he's got another thing coming.

Yeah I don't see it either. I don't know how much other services charge for subscriptions or whatever, don't have a clue, but $10, and for sure $20 a month sounds high as hell to me.

[downzy]

What a fucking joke.

This will bomb in no time.

Just watch this promo video of some of the most deluded music artists out there:

I could rant all day on this, but Bob Lefsetz does has already done it so much better than ever could:

Now let me get this straight...piracy can be eradicated if artists just band together in the name of money?

That's what this is all about, cash. For the misguided artists who believe this is their financial savior but primarily for Jay Z, who's using OPM (other people's money) to have a big score.

But it don't really happen that way at all.

Did Jay call Peter Thiel?

Then he would have learned to go where there's no competition. That's how you win in the tech space. But Spotify's got traction, Apple has a ton of cash and Deezer and Rdio are players. If you think Tidal's gonna walk right in and get huge market share, you probably believed iTunes Radio was gonna neuter Pandora. But it did not. Hell, even Jimmy Iovine couldn't neuter Spotify. Beats Music was a disaster in its initial incarnation. Give Jimmy credit for selling the enterprise to Apple, but without the profit-making headphones, there wouldn't have been billions involved.

Headphones... A market where the usual suspects were asleep. Sennheiser, AKG, even Sony, they could not see the opportunity right under their noses. So Jimmy walked right in and gained market share, hell, built a MARKETPLACE, and the established entities are still trying to catch up.

But everybody knows what streaming services are. Thank Taylor Swift, who provided Spotify with its greatest marketing campaign ever. Suddenly, everybody knew what the Swedish streaming service was.

And why was Spotify successful? Because of the deep pockets of the owners, who were willing to lose on the way to winning. Beats Music did not have these deep pockets, and Tidal certainly does not. Unless the artists are all willing to kick in double digit millions, out of their fortunes, to turn the tide.

But that's what a VC does. That's his area of expertise. To see Jay Z try to triumph in tech is like watching WME and CAA and Universal lose cash on their investments/incubated projects. IT'S NOT THEIR BUSINESS, NOT THEIR AREA OF EXPERTISE! Why don't you just decide to play in the NBA while you're at it, or watch a lot of YouTube videos and become a doctor. Sure, we're all envious of the money techies make, but if you think it's easy, you don't know any of them, or their stories.

So first and foremost you've got to pay for Tidal.

And therefore it's dead on arrival. Just like Apple's new music service. Because people are CHEAP! They love their money more than their favorite artists, never forget it. And the kind of person who pledges devotion to Tidal artists is the same kind who's home alone, broke, waiting for their parents to put cash on their debit card. Now if Tidal had a free tier... But it doesn't. It can't afford to lose that much money. It's not about the long haul. No one in music has been about the long haul since the turn of the century. First you get traction, then you monetize/charge. Can you say Instagram, can you say Snapchat? But suddenly, just because Jay Z is a famous musician he expects all of his fans to pony up ten bucks a month? Raw insanity.

As is the position of the artists on the stage. I'd be much more impressed if they all ankled their deals, got rid of the major labels and went it alone. That's why they're not making much money on Spotify, not because of the free tier, but because their deals suck. But these same deals apply on Tidal! They've got to license the music from their bosses! It's utterly laughable, like nursery school kids plotting against the teacher, or a kindergartner running away from home. Grow up!

And sure, if you loaded Tidal with exclusive content it would be attractive.

But the iTunes Store wouldn't promote your new release. And that's where your money is today, and we've already established you've got a short term vision.

And what about future artists? How do they get a share of the pie?

And let's say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you, they certainly have deeper pockets. Then your monopoly on exclusive content falls apart, you Balkanize the landscape and you hurt everybody in the ecosystem.

And artists can't get along with themselves, never mind others. True artists are singular. Come on, when's the last time you saw Madonna compromise, or do a solid for another performer? Suddenly, everybody's gonna play nice and get along? And how do they decide whose album gets promoted and for how long? We've seen this movie before, read "Hit Men" for instruction. Artists are all about the edge. Labels couldn't band together to get rid of indie promo, some just saw it as an advantage, they'd pay when others wouldn't, and then everybody paid once again.

Furthermore, right now Tidal doesn't have critical mass and artists need other platforms to succeed. You don't expect retaliation? I do. I certainly expect artists to break ranks, to provide content to other companies, therefore dissipating the hegemony.

And this is a big story today, what about tomorrow?

That's what we've learned in the internet era, it's about staying power, not the launch. Tidal is news this afternoon, by tomorrow no one is talking about it, never mind next week. Then the hard work begins. Are all these artists going to walk the streets in sandwich boards, garnering sign-ups like a political canvasser gets signatures? Of course not.

But then maybe someone will buy Tidal, and everybody will get paid.

But who is that company?

Apple's already got Beats.

Facebook is about user-created content.

Amazon is not about acquisitions.

And Google already owns streaming music, with YouTube.

Who is gonna be that stupid?

Maybe there's a mark out there, but probably not. Because investors are savvy. That's how they made all that money to begin with.

So why don't these artists go home and write compelling music.

Jay Z is the king of branding deals, but his Samsung app/album sank like a stone, despite NBA Finals commercial and all that Korean kompany marketing.

Because music is first and foremost about the art.

And great artists are lousy businessmen. There are exceptions, but they're rare.

As for the self-promotion and the buying of the story by the press, I point you today's Boy Genius Report wherein Jonathan Geller delineates how geeks trumpeted something that was not successful and investors poured in after the press took the bait and then the app tanked when Periscope launched.

It's not like the public has never heard of Spotify.

And the public determines success, not the press.

Are they going to all fork over triple digits a year to stream on Tidal?

Not gonna happen.

[J Dog]

What a fucking joke.

This will bomb in no time.

Just watch this promo video of some of the most deluded music artists out there:

They act like the founding fathers about to sign the Declaration of Independence or something It all goes back to the beginning, the music industry was not ready for the internet. The record labels, the artists, radio, none of them were ready. And they are all still playing catch up.

[Forsaken]

big pimpin', spendin cheese

[downzy]

They all come across as entitled assholes. This is about enrichening millionaires.

This, to me, seems like it would drive more people back to piracy. I imaging that most people would just torrent whatever exclusives might pop up on this service. Moreover, good luck getting record companies to go along with this and risk pissing off other streaming services.

And just wait until Apple launches its own music program. Jay-Z might be wealthy, but he's a chump when compared to the kind of money Apple can and will throw at artists for exclusives.

[Crazyman]

What a fucking joke.

This will bomb in no time.

Just watch this promo video of some of the most deluded music artists out there:

They act like the founding fathers about to sign the Declaration of Independence or something It all goes back to the beginning, the music industry was not ready for the internet. The record labels, the artists, radio, none of them were ready. And they are all still playing catch up.

Holy shit that was funny (both the video and your response)

They all come across as entitled assholes. This is about enrichening millionaires.

This, to me, seems like it would drive more people back to piracy. I imaging that most people would just torrent whatever exclusives might pop up on this service. Moreover, good luck getting record companies to go along with this and risk pissing off other streaming services.

And just wait until Apple launches its own music program. Jay-Z might be wealthy, but he's a chump when compared to the kind of money Apple can and will throw at artists for exclusives.

I agree about them being entitled assholes, and half the people in the video are past their prime anyway. However, there's no way this fails, even when Apple launches (or relaunches?) Beats Music.

[Amir]

Just watch this promo video of some of the most deluded music artists out there:

[jbhutto]

Vid is pretty vague / cheesy lol. Which I guess there are only so many ways you can try to sell this. Some very ill advised timing considering the state things are in, people are barely getting by, a version of Spotify they have to pay for is prob. a few notches down their list.

[Zeppelin]

One of the stupidest fucking videos I've ever seen.

[Crazyman]

That video is primed for a South Park parody whenever it comes back

[downzy]

They all come across as entitled assholes. This is about enrichening millionaires.

This, to me, seems like it would drive more people back to piracy. I imaging that most people would just torrent whatever exclusives might pop up on this service. Moreover, good luck getting record companies to go along with this and risk pissing off other streaming services.

And just wait until Apple launches its own music program. Jay-Z might be wealthy, but he's a chump when compared to the kind of money Apple can and will throw at artists for exclusives.

I agree about them being entitled assholes, and half the people in the video are past their prime anyway. However, there's no way this fails, even when Apple launches (or relaunches?) Beats Music.

Funny, because I don't see how this succeeds. If they had a free option then there might be a chance, so I can't see them syphoning off any subscribers from Spotify. Tidal is playing the exclusives game, which they might have a chance were they not going up against the nearly trillion dollar company that is Apple Inc. Apple makes more money in a month than all of these "artists" combined. When it comes time to buy exclusives from current and up and coming musicians, who do you think can afford to pay more, Jay-Z and his cabal of debutantes, or Apple, a company that bought Beats for billions because it was a Wednesday? Unless Tidal partners with another massive tech firm like Amazon or Google (which probably aren't interested), the company and its backers do not have the money to compete in this space. And don't forget that these artists aren't walking away from their record labels. Ultimately it's really up to them to cut exclusive deals. I would be more impressed if all of the stars depicted in the video also announced that they were cutting ties with their labels, but they didn't, and hence will be beholden to the terms decided by their label bosses.

Vid is pretty vague / cheesy lol. Which I guess there are only so many ways you can try to sell this. Some very ill advised timing considering the state things are in, people are barely getting by, a version of Spotify they have to pay for is prob. a few notches down their list.

The shot of them clinking their champagne glasses is beyond description. That two second clip tells you all you need to know about how sincere they are about "human art."

[J Dog]

Who the hell thinks a promo vid with some of the richest artists in the game, sippin on champagne and Beyoncé in her mink coat is going to convince people they need to give them their money?

Since the beginning of all this, going all the way back to Napster, artists have screwed up their case to the fans. Just the way they present it. They end up rubbing people the wrong way.

[Towelie]

I might be a bit dense when it comes to this sort of thing (I'm fairly traditional in how I purchase music, I still buy CDs and upload them onto iTunes) but I really don't understand the appeal of streaming sites. As someone who doesn't and never has listened to music on my phone, I don't want to have to log-in to a site like Spotify or Tidal to listen to my music. I have an iPod classic because I want to carry the maximum amount of songs on one device and I want to OWN the songs I listen to. From what I can tell, there is no way to legally own or download songs from these streaming websites to do with as you please. I don't want to be restricted to purchasing a song and only being able to listen to it on Spotify etc.

Why can't they come up with a subscription-based site where you can legally buy x amount of albums per month and you can download them onto whatever device you like, be it a smartphone, laptop, iTunes or even burn it onto a CD? £20 a month and you can download whatever you like up to a certain limit (say, ten albums a month, £2 an album). It beats buying expensive CDs at £10.99 a pop and you're still supporting the artist. Labels need to drastically bring down the price of albums if they want people to start buying them again. The days of spending £10-15 on one album are a thing of the past (and I say that as one of the few remaining people who still purchase CD albums).

[RussTCB]

Not sure how I feel about this as a whole just yet, but I'm upset to see JWIII involved.

[Jakey Styley]

I might be a bit dense when it comes to this sort of thing (I'm fairly traditional in how I purchase music, I still buy CDs and upload them onto iTunes) but I really don't understand the appeal of streaming sites. As someone who doesn't and never has listened to music on my phone, I don't want to have to log-in to a site like Spotify or Tidal to listen to my music. I have an iPod classic because I want to carry the maximum amount of songs on one device and I want to OWN the songs I listen to. From what I can tell, there is no way to legally own or download songs from these streaming websites to do with as you please. I don't want to be restricted to purchasing a song and only being able to listen to it on Spotify etc.

Most people are too lazy/lack the time to actually build up a music library like that. I don't use streaming services but I can certainly see how they're great for the fast & easy on-the-go lifestyle that everyone lives now.

[Crazyman]

They all come across as entitled assholes. This is about enrichening millionaires.

This, to me, seems like it would drive more people back to piracy. I imaging that most people would just torrent whatever exclusives might pop up on this service. Moreover, good luck getting record companies to go along with this and risk pissing off other streaming services.

And just wait until Apple launches its own music program. Jay-Z might be wealthy, but he's a chump when compared to the kind of money Apple can and will throw at artists for exclusives.

I agree about them being entitled assholes, and half the people in the video are past their prime anyway. However, there's no way this fails, even when Apple launches (or relaunches?) Beats Music.

Funny, because I don't see how this succeeds. If they had a free option then there might be a chance, so I can't see them syphoning off any subscribers from Spotify. Tidal is playing the exclusives game, which they might have a chance were they not going up against the nearly trillion dollar company that is Apple Inc. Apple makes more money in a month than all of these "artists" combined. When it comes time to buy exclusives from current and up and coming musicians, who do you think can afford to pay more, Jay-Z and his cabal of debutantes, or Apple, a company that bought Beats for billions because it was a Wednesday? Unless Tidal partners with another massive tech firm like Amazon or Google (which probably aren't interested), the company and its backers do not have the money to compete in this space. And don't forget that these artists aren't walking away from their record labels. Ultimately it's really up to them to cut exclusive deals. I would be more impressed if all of the stars depicted in the video also announced that they were cutting ties with their labels, but they didn't, and hence will be beholden to the terms decided by their label bosses.

The exclusive game isn't the only niche market they're going to go with, although with no announcement of anything in regards to Beats, they'll get that market for the time being as well. The market they're attempting to tap into is the new-gen audiophiles (aka the one's too lazy to actually download albums).

Don't get me wrong, I think this is an awful idea as well, but I can see how it'll make money. Jay only paid around $60 mil for this. Add his name and the other "A-list" musicians he has endorsing this, he'll make that money back pretty quickly. I don't forsee long-term success, but for the price he paid it's a good idea.

Also the South Park thing I was thinking of was the episode where everyone gets a hybrid and they smell their own farts...that's what that video reminded me of

[dalsh327]

I'm not going to say it's a bad idea but it's going to have limited appeal. It also ties into HD/Hi-res streaming, how that is going to eat up some data plans, and making audiophiles happy enough to pay 20 a month. Companies like Sonos are also getting into providing streaming music.

Sony (PlayStation) is now working with Spotify. I don't know if this is going to be limited to just this, or they're going to try to build something bigger up over time, but this is a sign Spotify isn't going away.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/03/30/sonys-spotify-powered-music-streaming-service-lands-on-playstation-today-no-paid-subscription-required/

Jay-Z interview

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6516928/jay-z-tidal-jimmy-iovine-interview

Mention of the service, but they also mention how much Kendrick Lamar made off of Spotify

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/jay-z-tidal-streaming-service/

Op-ed

http://pando.com/2015/03/31/3-biggest-misconceptions-about-the-music-industry-and-tidal-which-is-doomed-regardless/

Tidal being accused of ripping Spotify's design off.

http://9to5mac.com/2015/03/31/jay-zs-new-tidal-music-service-respects-the-artist-but-rips-off-spotifys-ui/

[magisme]

I'm upset to see JWIII involved.

Me too.

Whatever. My torrents are still free. They can go fuck themselves.

[CheapJon]

That video was cringeworthy. Pompous bastards lol. Will they at least remove their music from spotify?

[downzy]

Apparently this thing has flopped. The Tidal app has fallen outside of the top 700 apps for Apple. Meanwhile, Pandora and Spotify have strengthened their positions, now both in the top five. I'm starting to think that Jay might have a tough time getting his $60 million back. Good thing his wife makes $115 million last year.

http://bgr.com/2015/04/21/tidal-vs-pandora-vs-spotify/

[dalsh327]

I wouldn't be too quick to write it off, it's something we'll have to see over the next few years what they have planned and if people have more of an incentive to subscribe to it. Right now they don't.

[Len Cnut]

I...fuck with your soul like Ether, teach you the king you know you not, Gods Son across the belly, i'll prove you lost already