Use Your Illusion 1 - could've been better than Appetite?

[wasted]

1. Live n Let Die

2. Double Talkin' Jive

3. Back Off Bitch

4. Don't Damn Me

5. Bad Obsession

6. November Rain

7. Right Next Door to Hell

8. Perfect Crime

9. Don't Cry

10. The Garden

11. Dead Horse

12. Coma

These 12 tracks are kind of AFD-shaped and are all UYI 1 tracks.

1. Tie

2. Easy

3. Nightrain

4. Out Ta get me

5. Brownstone

6. PC v NR = tie

7. My Michelle

8. Tie

9. Sweet v DC = tie for stolen songs

10. The Garden

11. Dead Horse

12. Tie

AFD wins 5-2.

UYI can tie up some of the big ones but loses out to AFDs album classics. Nobody said it was going to be easy.

Did you really say that it is a tie between LALD and Jungle??? Pull yourself together man!

Jungle isn't better than one of Linda McCartneys songs. There's just no way.

I just think for some reason they didn't do the rock n roll songs on the Illusions just right. There's a generic feel to them. But the epics and ballads worked out great. Maybe without Steven they just lost some groove.

[magisme]

fans are more divided on whether ChiDem or UYI are better as an album you listen to in one sitting.

No, they're really not. Not unless by "fans" we mean "a dozen people on the forums."

[Len Cnut]

Thank you. I've always thought Bad Apples was one of the top tracks on UYI I. Axl digs in pretty good with the lyrics. And I always thought it had more of a sleazy sound than cock rock.

It's in the lyrics, isn't it? 'this traffic is hell, won't you give me a lift?' The whole theme of the song, to me, is that modern life is a joke and we're all kind of enjoying wallowing in it. It's satire to me, he throws out these stock images like 'diamonds and fast cars/money to burn/i got my head in the clouds/i got these thoughts to churn/i got a house out on the hills/i got a headache like a mother/twice the price of my thrills', he's kinda making fun of modern life, it's almost like Parklife by Blur (albeit in a very un-English way) or Lust for Life by Iggy Pop would be a better equivalent, in terms of the theme of it.

It begs an interesting question, does Axl suffer somewhat from his audience? As in like, hard rock fans who kinda see things through hard rock eyes when he's trying to do something different? Lyrically i mean, subtle stuff. I think there's possibly some weight to that.

Or even musically although in that specific regard perhaps it's more to do with the fact that he doesn't do anything as well except that which we've come to know as his forte.

Part of why i still have respect for GnR is that they were never commonplace, they were never average (apart from Chi Dem but thats not GnR as far as I'm concerned, I'm talking about that band that got famous under the name) and even if they did something that was run of the mill they were always like...gave it a little wink or a nudge or something different, something a little slick, a certain self awareness. Thats it i think actually, what set GnR apart from cock rock was that, even when they were getting as close to cock rock as they ever got, they were always kinda self aware with it, as if you got the feeling they understood that it was slightly ridiculous as a notion.

Whatever Axl Rose is he's a highly intelligent person who appears to do a lot of thinking, whether it's all productive or not i guess only he would know, bless him.

[magisme]

Is Bad Apples really that subtle? I agree with you about Axl's intent, Len, but it's pretty obvious, no?

[J Dog]

Is Bad Apples really that subtle? I agree with you about Axl's intent, Len, but it's pretty obvious, no?

I agree. But someone earlier called it cheese ball cock rock so I guess to some it's not obvious.

"you got to make a living with what you bring yourself to sell"

"we're down in the deep end where they love to watch you drown"

I mean if you don't get it after that, good luck.

[wasted]

Bad apples was like his disenchantment with the rock n roll lifestyle and business side of things. But as he says you got to make a living with what you bring yourself to sell.

I got myself some genuine imitation bad apples. That's the members of GNR, the bad boys of rock n roll.

To me I just thought he was trying express some frustration with that. But like he says there's nothing he can do about it and hey he's a frequent flyer - like that's a symbol of his success.

Axl dealing with the bullshit of life, trying to cover all the bases and all he's selling is some bad boy rock n roll. And he's not even enjoying it.

Axl is self aware for sure. He's self conscious obviously as an artist that helps. He just constructs a self per song.

[Len Cnut]

Is Bad Apples really that subtle? I agree with you about Axl's intent, Len, but it's pretty obvious, no?

Its not subtle, its very heavy handed...but the fact that heavy handed-ness is in pursuit of a kind of satire is whats subtle, i mean i dont think it is but judging by the fact that intent appears to escape people I guess I've begun to entertain the notion.

[Apollo]

If you swapped Don't Cry with the far superior alt version and replaced the fairly average Back Off Bitch with You Could Be Mine I think it could've been an even stronger album than Appetite.

Thoughts?

But you can't really do that without giving Appetite the same opportunity.

So let's "swap" out Anything Goes and Out Ta Get Me and add Civil War and Estranged to Appetite.

[wasted]

Cutting UYI down to 12 tracks gives it more focus.

[ludurigan]

Bad apples was like his disenchantment with the rock n roll lifestyle and business side of things. But as he says you got to make a living with what you bring yourself to sell.

I got myself some genuine imitation bad apples. That's the members of GNR, the bad boys of rock n roll.

To me I just thought he was trying express some frustration with that. But like he says there's nothing he can do about it and hey he's a frequent flyer - like that's a symbol of his success.

Axl dealing with the bullshit of life, trying to cover all the bases and all he's selling is some bad boy rock n roll. And he's not even enjoying it.

Axl is self aware for sure. He's self conscious obviously as an artist that helps. He just constructs a self per song.

i am not sure Axl wrote those lyrics

in Rio 1991, he says before the song something like i still dont know the lyrics to this song or something like that

and Izzy sang pretty much the whole song with Axl...

so i am guessing izzy wrote or co-wrote the lion share of the lyrics to bad apples

i used to consider Bad Apples a weak track

but that live version in RIO is terrific, so fucking great!

Edited May 16, 2015 by ludurigan

[wasted]

I think it's Axl lyrics because he got a credit. If Izzy wrote the lyrics it would be credited like Dust N Bones? Stradlin/Slash/McKagan. But who knows. Not a lot out there on it.

Bad Obsession doesn't have a Rose credit.

Not sure about it being satire, maybe by chance juxtaposition of a Stonesy funk jam with neg lyrics. It's not subtle irony it's just basic holding stuff up to ridicule.

But it's more just rock n roll swagger. Just bitch moanin' and complain' to the beat.

Not sure if I really understand all the lyrics. Maybe it's about copy cat bands?

[RONIN]

On 5/14/2015 at 6:53 AM, Len Cnut said:

On 5/14/2015 at 6:49 AM, arnold layne said:

I don't think Don't Cry is a good song.

You Ain't the First is one of my favorites though, but I can totally understand why a lot of people don't like it.

I think GnR nailed the likes of YATF better than almost any other style they tried their hand at.

Sounds to me like you're a Stradlin fan Lenny

[willl]

I think UYI1 is the album which cemented my belief that Izzy was the best songwriter in the band, certainly the only member who I felt was in it for the music and not for the fame, celebrity status and headlines. Whilst Axl and Slash were jerking off to 10 minute long epics like November Rain, Estranged, Coma, Locomotive etc I loved the raw RNR sound found in the simplicity of tunes like You Aint The First.

I rarely listen to the UYI albums these days. I definitely prefer the Stradlin tunes, but credit where credits due, Civil War is f'n badass to this day and pretty sure Izzy doesn't even appear on that song? Breakdown is killer too.

Edited March 3, 2017 by downliner

[Get In the Ring Motherfker]

For what is worth Bad Apples is my ringtone

[bigpoop]

After 30 years it's easy to be kind of burnt out on the Appetite songs but they are the best of GNR. The best written, best performed, best everything. That's as good as they got.

[AlexC]

Appetite for Destruction is so good that I listened to it almost everyday for years, the problem with that is that you become a little numb to its emotional impact. So UYI has way more to get your teeth into and discover. Like you can be really into Breakdown for a couple weeks then go through a stint of Right Next Door to Hell, Perfect Crime, Back Off Bitch and Garden of Eden. The thing I always find is, after giving Appetite a serious rest and then coming back to it and listening to it from start to finish, it instantly reminds you how superior it is.

[Lies They Tell]

On 14.5.2015 at 4:45 PM, Towelie said:

The highs on UYI2 are incredible, but the album has too many sub-par songs, such as Get In The Ring, So Fine, Shotgun Blues, My World and Yesterdays (don't mind that one, but it isn't great).

UYI1 only has one mediocre track (Bad Apples) and that's fun in a sort of guilty pleasure way.

The highs on UYI1 are incredible, but the album has too many sub-par songs, such as Right Next Door To Hell, You Ain't The First, Bad Obsession, Back Off Bitch, and Garden Of Eden. (don't mind that one, but it isn't great).

UYI2 only has one mediocre track (My World) and that's fun in a sort of guilty pleasure way.

Now I don't necessarily agree with the above statement, but my point is, that in the end both of these albums have some great songs and some that could be described as filler. Neither one is objectively better. It's a matter of taste, which one you prefer.

I do agree that UI1 could have been better than AFD, if they would have replaced some of the songs with some of the best UYI2 songs. Likewise UYI2 could have been better than AFD if they would have replaced some of the songs with the best UYI1 songs. 

[Sprite]

On 5/15/2015 at 9:25 AM, wasted said:

Bad apples was like his disenchantment with the rock n roll lifestyle and business side of things. But as he says you got to make a living with what you bring yourself to sell.

I got myself some genuine imitation bad apples. That's the members of GNR, the bad boys of rock n roll.

To me I just thought he was trying express some frustration with that. But like he says there's nothing he can do about it and hey he's a frequent flyer - like that's a symbol of his success.

Axl dealing with the bullshit of life, trying to cover all the bases and all he's selling is some bad boy rock n roll. And he's not even enjoying it.

Axl is self aware for sure. He's self conscious obviously as an artist that helps. He just constructs a self per song.

Sort of like their version of That Smell. Whiskey bottles, brand new car. Oak tree you're in my way. 

Its almost like an artistic statement saying this lifestyle isn't what you think it is. Wont you pour his apathy.

Axl's a wordsmith. His writing is always the from the plight of the individual which is a trait a lot of great writers have.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Sprite

[cqleonardo]

Everybody knows that UYI I is better than II

[cqleonardo]

I'm a sucker for the first albums, besides Lies, I still don't get why put Suicide on the first side and not new songs, 4 rock tracks, 4 slowers. The only weak link no AFD to me is Anything Goes, I fucking love the song but she is just left out there, kinda alone on the middle of the other tracks, Illusion 1 to me is perfect, Illusions 2 have some weak links to, I like the songs but I don't rly get them there, Get in The Ring, Shotgun Blues, Don't cry and My World....

[Sprite]

14 minutes ago, cqleonardo said:

Everybody knows that UYI I is better than II

I like the whole enchilada. I view it as one. From the one you conceive the 2 but that's just labeling. It's all one piece.

I feel the yellow/red is representive of anger and frustration. Right next door to hell, dead heads on 65, bodies in trash cans, the heaviness of coma. It had its sweet moments in November rain and don't cry. Even inmates on death row pet the therapy dogs. That's why I like how the songs are mixed. It shows all sides like a real person.

I see UYI 2 as the salvation version. The cool blue/purple. The songs are a little more hopeful, a little more sense of togetherness.  A little more wholesome or southern in a way. It's like Lynyrd Skynyrd is the unsung hero to GNR. That influence added another dimension to the music. Civil war, 14 years, yesterdays, kohd, breakdown. All have southern rock elements. We know Axl credited Ronnie van zant for inspiration when recording scoms vocals so maybe there is something there.

but we also have get in the ring, shotgun blues, my world. So quite literally it's like their version of the white album as Slash said. 

I think time is seeing it in that light too. Sort of like a physical graffiti in the 90s.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Sprite

[rocknroll41]

Everyone thinks cutting the songs down to just one album would make UYI better than AFD but that's not true at all. The lack of flow, Sorum's drumming, and the shitty/dated production would all still be present. Nothing GNR could've done would've ever rivaled AFD. It was just too perfect. Nothing Axl could've done on CD would've rivaled it, and nothing they can do now would rival it either. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by rocknroll41

[RONIN]

25 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Everyone thinks cutting the songs down to just one album would make UYI better than AFD but that's not true at all. The lack of flow, Sorum's drumming, and the shitty/dated production would all still be present. Nothing GNR could've done would've ever rivaled AFD. It was just too perfect. Nothing Axl could've done on CD would've rivaled it, and nothing they can do now would rival it either. 

Okay, here's a hypothetical:

Cull the UYI songs to the top 14-15. Give it the right production (let's say they slightly refine Slash's "raw mixes"). Adler drumming. 

Given the above scenario, there is a good case to be made that UYI would have surpassed AFD. The songs taken at face value showcase GnR at their peak, it's the circumstances around the release that let it down (too many fillers, bad production, no Adler,etc.)

 

[Izzyslash]

Nowhere near Appetite, but I tend to prefer the first UYI the most. Both are almost equally good, but more great rockers on UYI I.

[Sosso]

Izzy could have be

14 hours ago, downliner said:

I think UYI1 is the album which cemented my belief that Izzy was the best songwriter in the band, certainly the only member who I felt was in it for the music and not for the fame, celebrity status and headlines. Whilst Axl and Slash were jerking off to 10 minute long epics like November Rain, Estranged, Coma, Locomotive etc I loved the raw RNR sound found in the simplicity of tunes like You Aint The First.

I rarely listen to the UYI albums these days. I definitely prefer the Stradlin tunes, but credit where credits due, Civil War is f'n badass to this day and pretty sure Izzy doesn't even appear on that song? Breakdown is killer too.

Correct. Slash played both lead & rhythm guitar for CW.