Definitely Maybe vs. (What's the Story) Morning Glory?

[AxlsMainMan]

Can I vote for Be Here Now?

Really? Every song on that album is a good 2.5 minutes overlong and the production is shite.

[wasted]

Do you know what I mean? is an epic classic.

Be Here Now is like their CD. Layers, overdubs, solos everywhere.

But Stand By Me is a great song. So is Dont Go Away. There isn't a song on it I don't like.

Shame they couldn't hold it together to do a proper tour with that record in the US.

My Big Mouth and I think, I hope, I know are great rockers.

Magic Pie is underrated.

First 6 albums are all good. Last 3 aren't bad either.

Edited June 10, 2015 by wasted

[maynard]

Can I vote for Be Here Now?

Really? Every song on that album is a good 2.5 minutes overlong and the production is shite.

I love it the way it is. Get your point though. I consider it their best album by far.

[Bono]

but I think you have to be British to "get" them.

Oh really? I guess I'll throw out all my Oasis albums then. Anyone want my vinyl? I mean I have no use for them being Canadian and all. I couldn't possibly "get" them.

Can I vote for Be Here Now?

Really? Every song on that album is a good 2.5 minutes overlong and the production is shite.

I love it the way it is. Get your point though. I consider it their best album by far.

I love Be Here Now. Especially I Hope, I Think, I know. Probably my favourite Oasis song. Top 5 for sure anyways.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Bono

[Len Cnut]

Oh really? I guess I'll throw out all my Oasis albums then. Anyone want my vinyl? I mean I have no use for them being Canadian and all. I couldn't possibly "get" them.

Bit of an extreme reaction, no? I feel like i can't totally 'get' The Blues, being that its not written about my social experience, doesn't mean to say I should stop listening to it though right?

[Bono]

Oh really? I guess I'll throw out all my Oasis albums then. Anyone want my vinyl? I mean I have no use for them being Canadian and all. I couldn't possibly "get" them.

Bit of an extreme reaction, no? I feel like i can't totally 'get' The Blues, being that its not written about my social experience, doesn't mean to say I should stop listening to it though right?

It's not extreme at all. It would be like me saying you can only get Neil Young if you're Canadian. There's nothing overly complex about Oasis that would require you to be British to get

[Len Cnut]

Oh really? I guess I'll throw out all my Oasis albums then. Anyone want my vinyl? I mean I have no use for them being Canadian and all. I couldn't possibly "get" them.

Bit of an extreme reaction, no? I feel like i can't totally 'get' The Blues, being that its not written about my social experience, doesn't mean to say I should stop listening to it though right?

It's not extreme at all. It would be like me saying you can only get Neil Young if you're Canadian. There's nothing overly complex about Oasis that would require you to be British to get

There's nothing overly complex about the blues either sir, it's about being from a particular place and time in this world and how that music related to a particular social experience, it's not to say its too complicated or something. And i kinda do feel like i don't totally get get get Neil Young by not being Canadian...all it really does it make it more interesting and intriguing to me, it's not something to take personal or anything, least not how i saw it.

[wasted]

After DM though Oasis are kind of Americanized or going down a well worn path. But they are kind of indie hipsters compared to Pantera.

[DieselDaisy]

Do you not feel the blues has an universal power, Len? I remember seeing Eric Burdon interviewed. He was describing how working class British kids got into the blues in the '50s and formed groups. Eric paraphrased an archetypal blues lyric: ''I'm working my fingers to the bone at the docks and arrived home, and my woman ran away'' and Eric said, ''that was happening to guys on my street'' (Eric grew up in Walker, a typical working class terraced area of of Newcastle).

[Len Cnut]

Oh definitely, most definitely. Chris Stamp also made a point that like...the working class experience in England has some parrallels with blacks in America in that you're the lowest of the low, there is definitely a universal power...but i still don't feel like i really really really 'get' the blues, i don't think I can. I can try, i can empathise, i can clock the appeal of the universal themes therein (hence why it spoke to so many people all over the world).

But at the same time, there's a mysteriousness and an exotic-ness to it. It describes an experience thats not mine, which is why it's so intriguing to me. Someone thats lived in America down south, trod on the ground that those people share-cropped in (share-cropped? you know what i mean!) and...felt the heat of the climate, drank their whiskey and breathed their air, they know more about it than me.

And it don't even mean necessarily you gotta be a black guy or something (although that'd help the experience), even just normal people who grew up down south, people like J Dog who, in talking to him generally, I've got this impression of a man who...really understands the culture that music comes from, is a part of that culture, a lot of blues is about the geography of the place, the landscape.

It's not say that my understanding of it doesn't have it's own value, it's just not the same value. It's the same with The Who, The Beatles, The Kinks (especially the fucking Kinks actually), the people that get it most are the people from here. And to be honest, I'd say you get it more than me, based on my being a second generation immigrant, those images, those village greens, the viginettes of the malaise of English family life, all those things are your cultural experience. You and Dazey get that better than I do cuz it's your life, in a sense. I might love it to bits and read book after book after book and watch every documentary under the sun and know all the albums off by heart and maybe even be better disposed to speak about it and intellectualise about it but...you're closer to living it than I am, your Dad and Mum and grandparents can tell you about that stuff and your family and where they fit in that context, it's not really my experience.

With me the appeal is that it's the history that preceeded the time I'm living in and based on that i feel related to it somehow, it's not the same for you, you ain't related to it somehow, you are that experience, or the fruit of the people of that experience.

Everybody can relate to most things on some level, art kinda relies on that but at the same time some peoples levels of relating to it are more convoluted or thematically broad as compared to someone who is the manifestation of that experience.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Len B'stard

[DieselDaisy]

Oh definitely, most definitely. Chris Stamp also made a point that like...the working class experience in England has some parrallels with blacks in America in that you're the lowest of the low, there is definitely a universal power...but i still don't feel like i really really really 'get' the blues, i don't think I can. I can try, i can empathise, i can clock the appeal of the universal themes therein (hence why it spoke to so many people all over the world).

But at the same time, there's a mysteriousness and an exotic-ness to it. It describes an experience thats not mine, which is why it's so intriguing to me. Someone thats lived in America down south, trod on the ground that those people share-cropped in (share-cropped? you know what i mean!) and...felt the heat of the climate, drank their whiskey and breathed their air, they know more about it than me.

And it don't even mean necessarily you gotta be a black guy or something (although that'd help the experience), even just normal people who grew up down south, people like J Dog who, in talking to him generally, I've got this impression of a man who...really understands the culture that music comes from, is a part of that culture, a lot of blues is about the geography of the place, the landscape.

It's not say that my understanding of it doesn't have it's own value, it's just not the same value. It's the same with The Who, The Beatles, The Kinks (especially the fucking Kinks actually), the people that get it most are the people from here. And to be honest, I'd say you get it more than me, based on my being a second generation immigrant, those images, those village greens, the viginettes of the malaise of English family life, all those things are your cultural experience. You and Dazey get that better than I do cuz it's your life, in a sense. I might love it to bits and read book after book after book and watch every documentary under the sun and know all the albums off by heart and maybe even be better disposed to speak about it and intellectualise about it but...you're closer to living it than I am, your Dad and Mum and grandparents can tell you about that stuff and your family and where they fit in that context, it's not really my experience.

With me the appeal is that it's the history that preceeded the time I'm living in and based on that i feel related to it somehow, it's not the same for you, you ain't related to it somehow, you are that experience, or the fruit of the people of that experience.

Everybody can relate to most things on some level, art kinda relies on that but at the same time some peoples levels of relating to it are more convoluted or thematically broad as compared to someone who is the manifestation of that experience.

What about when the blues migrated up north with the 20th century black diaspora (and electrified itself)? When it moved to Chicago it inherently became urbanised, the music of city life. It is an experience, of working in heavily mechanised industries for low wages and living in overcrowded environments. Your Chicago bluesman may as well be speaking about Newcastle or Liverpool, as Chicago. There is also a commonalty in the 'relationship' song which is universal - granted the colloquial expressions of the, to use an unfashionable term, 'American negro' (e.g. 'back door man') are exotic to any self-respecting pasty faced Englishman.

[Len Cnut]

Oh definitely, most definitely. Chris Stamp also made a point that like...the working class experience in England has some parrallels with blacks in America in that you're the lowest of the low, there is definitely a universal power...but i still don't feel like i really really really 'get' the blues, i don't think I can. I can try, i can empathise, i can clock the appeal of the universal themes therein (hence why it spoke to so many people all over the world).

But at the same time, there's a mysteriousness and an exotic-ness to it. It describes an experience thats not mine, which is why it's so intriguing to me. Someone thats lived in America down south, trod on the ground that those people share-cropped in (share-cropped? you know what i mean!) and...felt the heat of the climate, drank their whiskey and breathed their air, they know more about it than me.

And it don't even mean necessarily you gotta be a black guy or something (although that'd help the experience), even just normal people who grew up down south, people like J Dog who, in talking to him generally, I've got this impression of a man who...really understands the culture that music comes from, is a part of that culture, a lot of blues is about the geography of the place, the landscape.

It's not say that my understanding of it doesn't have it's own value, it's just not the same value. It's the same with The Who, The Beatles, The Kinks (especially the fucking Kinks actually), the people that get it most are the people from here. And to be honest, I'd say you get it more than me, based on my being a second generation immigrant, those images, those village greens, the viginettes of the malaise of English family life, all those things are your cultural experience. You and Dazey get that better than I do cuz it's your life, in a sense. I might love it to bits and read book after book after book and watch every documentary under the sun and know all the albums off by heart and maybe even be better disposed to speak about it and intellectualise about it but...you're closer to living it than I am, your Dad and Mum and grandparents can tell you about that stuff and your family and where they fit in that context, it's not really my experience.

With me the appeal is that it's the history that preceeded the time I'm living in and based on that i feel related to it somehow, it's not the same for you, you ain't related to it somehow, you are that experience, or the fruit of the people of that experience.

Everybody can relate to most things on some level, art kinda relies on that but at the same time some peoples levels of relating to it are more convoluted or thematically broad as compared to someone who is the manifestation of that experience.

What about when the blues migrated up north with the 20th century black diaspora (and electrified itself)? When it moved to Chicago it inherently became urbanised, the music of city life. It is an experience, of working in heavily mechanised industries for low wages and living in overcrowded environments. Your Chicago bluesman may as well be speaking about Newcastle or Liverpool, as Chicago. There is also a commonalty in the 'relationship' song which is universal - granted the colloquial expressions of the, to use an unfashionable term, 'American negro' (e.g. 'back door man') are exotic to any self-respecting pasty faced Englishman.

Well that experience comes with it's own attendant...thingies! Which I suppose would make them more relatable to us lot but it's still very much a migration from that core so it's informed by it, to some degree. I'm not denying at all the ground upon which this stuff meets and connects with other people and their experiences, otherwise I wouldn't love it so much, the themes are very broad. But the devils in the detail and it belongs to a certain people, or rather the original experience does, I suppose we've given it our own sort of history with the British blues boom etc.

[wasted]

It's interesting that music with most longevity is pretty vague and universal lyrics. Clear and understandable. Which ever genre you talking bout it's the simple stuff that lasts. Whether it's Nirvana over Sonic Youth, Oasis over Suede, Faith No More over Mr Bungle.

There was probably other music around the blues that gets over looked. I went to this place called Tramways which had some old trains and reenacting Second World War. They had George Formby type singers with a bango. Why is that dead in pop music today? Or Skiffle?

[Bono]

Oh really? I guess I'll throw out all my Oasis albums then. Anyone want my vinyl? I mean I have no use for them being Canadian and all. I couldn't possibly "get" them.

Bit of an extreme reaction, no? I feel like i can't totally 'get' The Blues, being that its not written about my social experience, doesn't mean to say I should stop listening to it though right?

It's not extreme at all. It would be like me saying you can only get Neil Young if you're Canadian. There's nothing overly complex about Oasis that would require you to be British to get

There's nothing overly complex about the blues either sir, it's about being from a particular place and time in this world and how that music related to a particular social experience, it's not to say its too complicated or something. And i kinda do feel like i don't totally get get get Neil Young by not being Canadian...all it really does it make it more interesting and intriguing to me, it's not something to take personal or anything, least not how i saw it.

If you acyually believe you need to be British to truly get Oasis, you and anyone else that thinks that is delusional and thinking into things way too hard. Music is what you take from it and to say somone can't really get Oasis unless they are British makes no sense. So like anyone outside of England really doesn't "get" The Beatles? It's like saying I could never truly get GnR because I'm not American or from Los Angeles. It's not like Oasis is singing about abscure local politis that anyone utsid eof England can't relate to. Oasis's music and lyrics are as broad as anyone's. It's not nationality specific.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Bono

[Len Cnut]

Oh really? I guess I'll throw out all my Oasis albums then. Anyone want my vinyl? I mean I have no use for them being Canadian and all. I couldn't possibly "get" them.

Bit of an extreme reaction, no? I feel like i can't totally 'get' The Blues, being that its not written about my social experience, doesn't mean to say I should stop listening to it though right?

It's not extreme at all. It would be like me saying you can only get Neil Young if you're Canadian. There's nothing overly complex about Oasis that would require you to be British to get

There's nothing overly complex about the blues either sir, it's about being from a particular place and time in this world and how that music related to a particular social experience, it's not to say its too complicated or something. And i kinda do feel like i don't totally get get get Neil Young by not being Canadian...all it really does it make it more interesting and intriguing to me, it's not something to take personal or anything, least not how i saw it.

If you acyually believe you need to be British to truly get Oasis, you and anyone else that thinks that is delusional and thinking into things way too hard. Music is what you take from it and to say somone can't really get Oasis unless they are British makes no sense. So like anyone outside of England really doesn't "get" The Beatles? It's like saying I could never truly get GnR because I'm not American or from Los Angeles. It's not like Oasis is singing about abscure local politis that anyone utsid eof England can't relate to. Oasis's music and lyrics are as broad as anyone's. It's not nationality specific.

Its very nationality specific in places, as you say it has its broad themes and its more than possible for people to 'get' it but not quite the same as the people that are from that time and that particular social experience is alls I'm saying. The bit that you do not get as a result of not being from here isnt like...the bulk of it goes right over your head, just details, specifics, certain little cultural references.

There's a reason why The British Invasion was called such, because a lot of the music coming out of it was quite culturally specific.

Part of a nations culture is the music it produces and its a specific reflection of THAT culture, when you share a language and have certain social parrallels then some things are more relatable than others but thats kinda how music works. You dont think Bring It On Down is a social commentary for instance? Cuz Noel does.

Its never a bad idea to think.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Len B'stard

[DieselDaisy]

Oh really? I guess I'll throw out all my Oasis albums then. Anyone want my vinyl? I mean I have no use for them being Canadian and all. I couldn't possibly "get" them.

Bit of an extreme reaction, no? I feel like i can't totally 'get' The Blues, being that its not written about my social experience, doesn't mean to say I should stop listening to it though right?

It's not extreme at all. It would be like me saying you can only get Neil Young if you're Canadian. There's nothing overly complex about Oasis that would require you to be British to get

There's nothing overly complex about the blues either sir, it's about being from a particular place and time in this world and how that music related to a particular social experience, it's not to say its too complicated or something. And i kinda do feel like i don't totally get get get Neil Young by not being Canadian...all it really does it make it more interesting and intriguing to me, it's not something to take personal or anything, least not how i saw it.

If you acyually believe you need to be British to truly get Oasis, you and anyone else that thinks that is delusional and thinking into things way too hard. Music is what you take from it and to say somone can't really get Oasis unless they are British makes no sense. So like anyone outside of England really doesn't "get" The Beatles? It's like saying I could never truly get GnR because I'm not American or from Los Angeles. It's not like Oasis is singing about abscure local politis that anyone utsid eof England can't relate to. Oasis's music and lyrics are as broad as anyone's. It's not nationality specific.

I would agree a lot more with the original point, that Oasis are too 'British' to translate well, if we were discussing Blur or Pulp here but Oasis had these big universal ballads like Live Forever and Wonderwall. They are only British in the sense that they tap into British rock (Beatles, T Rex) which was big stateside anyhow.

[Len Cnut]

Oh really? I guess I'll throw out all my Oasis albums then. Anyone want my vinyl? I mean I have no use for them being Canadian and all. I couldn't possibly "get" them.

Bit of an extreme reaction, no? I feel like i can't totally 'get' The Blues, being that its not written about my social experience, doesn't mean to say I should stop listening to it though right?

It's not extreme at all. It would be like me saying you can only get Neil Young if you're Canadian. There's nothing overly complex about Oasis that would require you to be British to get

There's nothing overly complex about the blues either sir, it's about being from a particular place and time in this world and how that music related to a particular social experience, it's not to say its too complicated or something. And i kinda do feel like i don't totally get get get Neil Young by not being Canadian...all it really does it make it more interesting and intriguing to me, it's not something to take personal or anything, least not how i saw it.

If you acyually believe you need to be British to truly get Oasis, you and anyone else that thinks that is delusional and thinking into things way too hard. Music is what you take from it and to say somone can't really get Oasis unless they are British makes no sense. So like anyone outside of England really doesn't "get" The Beatles? It's like saying I could never truly get GnR because I'm not American or from Los Angeles. It's not like Oasis is singing about abscure local politis that anyone utsid eof England can't relate to. Oasis's music and lyrics are as broad as anyone's. It's not nationality specific.

I would agree a lot more with the original point, that Oasis are too 'British' to translate well, if we were discussing Blur or Pulp here but Oasis had these big universal ballads like Live Forever and Wonderwall. They are only British in the sense that they tap into British rock (Beatles, T Rex) which was big stateside anyhow.

Like i said, it's about the details. You can't really 'get' Liam Gallagher unless you know what a Manc' is. As you say, with Oasis they are a lot more universal than many but they are still very much a Manchester band and informed by their Britishness and their cultural experience, Definitely Maybe is album by a bunch of lads that signed on down the dole office, it's a reaction to a specific climate in our culture at that time. I mean Christ Almighty, i remember hearing they had to put subtitles on Oasis interviews in America. The themes are broad and of course you can 'get' Oasis if you're not from England but i still maintain there is something very English about it and you don't get the full flavour of it unless you are aware of that experience. With Pulp, Blur, The Kinks, it's even more pronnounced. Which, again, isn't to say that you can't 'get' them or relate to them on some level, perhaps even a quite profound one personally speaking...but there is something missing there, a gap there.

As for The Beatles, Christ, they did almost Music Hall stuff, which is a specific English tradition and i just don't see how you can really get what they are emulating there without being from around here, their humour was just completely English, like whenever they were asked how long they'd been together they'd respond with 'WE'VE BEEN TOGETHER NOW FOR 40 LONG YEARS, AND IT DON'T SEEM A DAY TO LONG!', how on earths an American gonna know what thats referring to? Sure, the bulk of their work was in the framework of American rock n roll and thats enough to 'get' their shit but there's a lot of value in the details and specifics. Magical Mystery Tour is basically a coach-trip to Blackpool and they're having a sing-song, lots of what The Beatles did was supremely English, 'Just a part of Liverpool, where i turned me tool, 2 pound 10 a week that was my pay!' I could go on all day.

Now again, i have to keep reiterating this, I'm not saying that they can't 'get' The Beatles but at the same time you cannot fully appreciate the richness of something when, sometimes, you're not sure whats being referred to. You are correct, the Oasis example holds less water than the others but there is still a lot about Oasis, musically and otherwise, thats very British. Bring It On Down, like i said earlier, is about being working class in England., don't mean to say you can't relate to the idea of 'the under-class' and all of that (and it's hardly the most deep searching song on the topic) but there's no getting away from the fact it's referring to an experience that ain't yours if you ain't from here.

Live Forever is a REACTION to the prevailing American mentalities of the time in rock music, or A prevailing mentality. The constant references to cocaine at a time where it was not the drug of choice in rock circles in America, if music was so broad and so...lacking in specifics that give it it's character and identity it'd be unbearable. Admittedly that last one ain't a big difference.

Oasis were coming out of like pillhead culture, which sort of informed it's neo-psychedelia, the shit were strictly a reference to The Beatles and the swinging 60s, it's about the Hacienda, and whizzing off your tits and that whole Happy Mondays mentality, when Oasis did psychedelia it was as much to do with that as The Beatles, something that i never noticed being picked up on anywhere else but over here.

I wasn't even saying that they don't translate, i was just saying there's a fair bit you miss, in terms of context and intent and meaning.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Len B'stard

[DieselDaisy]

It is curious because I see a lot of yanks on the net - here in fact - who loath The Beatles and love The Stones, by far the most American sounding of the 'British Invasion' bands. This has become a trendy line. I wonder if, when the dust settled after Beatlemania, some of the Americans began to reassess their relationship with The Beatles and some of the whimsical stuff went over their head..

[wasted]

Noel said that he wanted Oasis to be a part of the British Psychedelia history.

I think what is possible is that people don't understand that Oasis were kind of a break from status quo. As in they were way more aggressive than their peers. Brit pop bands or nice hair metal out fits. They were way heavier and rock n roll than most other bands. These aren't art students, they are from council estates like Ozzy was. They aren't Pink Floyd.

From an American perspective they sound kind of lightweight and kind of like nice boys like the Strokes.

But also in the US you might have a lot of classic rock styled bands but in the UK only Oasis did that and were successful since Def Leppard. Oasis were phenomenon in the UK.

So that's the only difference I see, in the UK Oasis were as controversial as AFD and they really changed the ambitions of bands from wanting to be arty indie bands to wanting to write huge anthems. Just like Guns had those copy bands. Finally the hooligan element had their band. And the devotion of Oasis fans is strong. Whole stadiums of e'd up drunk cunts singing football anthems! It's not really about copying a The Beatles it goes back to an English country garden. Every other band in the UK sound like the Beatles, Ride, the fucking Mock Turtles, the whole indie dance thing was just dancy Beatles songs. But Oasis brought classic rock and danger back.

So you have Pantera fans saying Oasis suck fucking pussies! But really it's like saying fuck AFD. They aren't the Strokes they will fuck you up. Well Bonehead will. To go from Burnage to stadiums in America it's unbelievable really. From a total shithole. I'd like to see Pantera skipping through Salford at 3am.

But the music is pretty easy to understand, lyrically it's pretty simple. They basically roll a bit like the Stones really. It's just a rock band.

[wasted]

She's electric she's got a family full of eccentrics. I doubt you'd get that unless you were Irish immigrants in Manchester. And they are dole scum.

What's the point in finding yourself a job if there's nothing worth working for - Thatchers Britain innit.

It probably resonants differently with Americans. There are nuances. I think that's why Noel went to Downing Street not to support Blair but to hate thatcher. When I was a kid I played for Miners welfare football teams and you can see what she did.

And positivity that Oasis brought was much needed. Oasis were like the final legit party that started with rave. Everyone stopped pilling it and needed something sort of spirtual.

So as much as music is universal those first two records mean something more than just some rock cliches and drinking anthems. I mean that's basically it but it meant more than that in UK. Later records not so much, Be Here Now was designed for American. The rest is just being a band. But for a moment they were heroes.

[Len Cnut]

From an American perspective they sound kind of lightweight and kind of like nice boys like the Strokes.

So you have Pantera fans saying Oasis suck fucking pussies!

This is one thing that bothers me about American culture, the fact that they like...labour under these stereotypes. That to be hard you've got to be a stout metaller with long hair and play Godawful juddering music and growl and shout a lot and that shows you're a real man and if you wear deodourant and nice clothes and sing optimistic songs it means you're a pussy, it's just so childish and it makes me think that the whole American thing is 90% fake. I mean real life isn't like that, is it? No ones fuckin' afraid of metallers and bikers round here, they just reckon they're fuckin' fat smelly wankers really. Really and truly it's just a group of young white men, a certain cross-section, that take that shit like that, so it ain't even all Americans, most hip hop head Americans find that particular archetype similarly laughable. I'd be interested to see how well they'd get on getting fuckin' bricks thrown at em down Maine Road.

And it makes the music all the more patronising. It's why i can stomach metal, it's the heavy-handed proliferation of an image that is obviously and glaringly fake. Real life isn't like that, you might fancy yourself a bit of a badman like that and get knocked out by Tom Jones or something, this idea that tough guys wake up in the morning and put on leather jackets and Marlboro belt buckles and wear black band t shirts with cut off sleeves, please, I'm not a 4 yr old, i don't need to be patronised to quite that extent, thank you very much.

It's honestly just like...child mentality. And you see it most amongst hard rock and metaller circles. The idea that any of these LA hard rock queens are in the least bit geezers or emblematic of some kind of masculinity is an absolute joke.

Which is not to say there isn't image projection going on with a great many British bands and artists but Christ Almighty, they don't half take the piss over them ends. I suppose you could say hip hop is a lot like that, projection of image and I'd agree with you to a point but there is a core of nasty fuckers in that willing to go further than anyone else in embodying that image, rightly or wrongly.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Len B'stard

[wasted]

To be honest most metallers or classic rock people I know are nice guys. It's kind of conservative. They are intelligent. I'm more afraid of pissed up scallies who'll hit you with an ash tray for no reason. American Oasis fans are about the music and classic rock.

Another thing is I don't feel I get Definitely Maybe as I wasn't on the dole in Manchester with no hope. Same as I don't get AFD. I wasn't on sunset strip. Morning Glory and UYI it's more just rock n roll celebration.

Edited June 11, 2015 by wasted

[Len Cnut]

To be honest most metallers or classic rock people I know are nice guys. It's kind of conservative. They are intelligent. I'm more afraid of pissed up scallies who'll hit you with an ash tray for no reason.

I could agree with you on that actually, speaking only for the ones in England cuz i don't have any other range of experience, most of em are lovely lads, i tend to get on like a house on fire with em. I don't like their music and i don't think i ever will but they're lovely guys. Which makes that image proliferated by certain bands all the more incongruous with the reality.

Another thing is I don't feel I get Definitely Maybe as I wasn't on the dole in Manchester with no hope. Same as I don't get AFD. I wasn't on sunset strip.

This is kinda what i mean, there's no mystery in getting 95% of this stuff, it is pretty much to do with details. For instance our resident sage Marc Canter could do a better job of 'getting' the whole Appetite thing than me, I've only really read it off of books and songs and like, you've got to know in the back of your mind, when you read stuff or watch a music video or whatever that these things are wilfully constructed to project a certain image and a certain message, the reality of every situation is always different than the idea...and always infinitely more interesting.

Morning Glory and UYI it's more just rock n roll celebration.

Same with The Beatles i suppose, you don't get hordes of screaming boys and girls all over the world if they totally don't clock nothing of what you're about. But then a lot of what makes things enduring, long lasting, is the substance to them, the details. Perhaps i approach this shit with too much of sociological or historical stance, it's all music end of the day...but at the same time that stuff interests me greatly. Cuz it is just music but at the same time it's sort of not, it's culture too and history has a lot to do with that.

Also, most of the music we talk about around here is history now...pretty distant history too.

[wasted]

I definitely think there's a music connection. But you can enjoy a Motely Crüe record in Norwich. In Travelodge maybe. A little bit of Too Fast For Love.

[BetterDay7]

Definitely Maybe. More cohesive and i dig the more raw sound

Agreed