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Confederate flag? Yes or no?


Val22

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Okay, I vote no. Take them down in whatever state they are still flying or posting or whatever.

My reason is simple this:

The Confederate was made in 1861 when the south succeeded from the north at the start of the civil war.

The US was two separate nations at that time.

The north kept President Lincoln and the US flag as their own.

The south made this confederate flag to represent their southern nation and voted in their own President.

For this reason after the civil war when our American was once again whole and trying to rebuild itself as one nation, this Confederate flag should have been burned up.

America is one nation so there is no need to have any other flag but the US one. Stars and stripes forever

To me it's not a matter of people remembering slavery or any other reason other than during the civil war America was two nations. Then it was one again, so there is no need for another flag.

It's just damn common sense. Every other country around the world has one flag to represent them. Americans all over this nation should realize one flag is all we need.

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None of my business but i vote yes, it represents a part of your countrys history, its not as if anyone waving it at the Olympics, everyone know stars and stripes is Americas flag but the Confederate one im led to believe means something to a fair few people stateside and those people matter, Americas land of the free right, so why ban a flag? Yeah some ugly shit happened under it but that goes for every other flag out there in the world except Greenland or something, its just silly, its not like its the flag of the Third Reich or something.

I think its more to do with marginalising a particular kind of American that ain't cool at the moment more than anything, just posturing to appear a certain way, why should so many people in the south be ashamed of their history. After all these fuckin' years what does it matter, its just creating unnecessary divisions and ill feeling amongst people, end of the day the North and South came together right, i mean i know one beat the other but the point is it doesnt help this idea of the unity of the two parties having had all that bloodshed to create America to just fuck with the equilibrium that was ultimately achieved as a result of having fought that war.

Its not my place to say and i dont know or anything but i get the feeling this drive is informed by something fundamentally ugly.

Edited by Len B'stard
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All this controversy is doing is turning the confederate flag's modern meaning into a symbol of freedom of speech

this Streisand Effect is going to make the flag more popular than it has ever been in years

and Yes, it's been a harmless symbol of southern pride for years which people are spinning into something worse than nazi germany propoganda

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None of my business but i vote yes, it represents a part of your countrys history, its not as if anyone waving it at the Olympics,

Same could be said about the Nazi flag with respect to Germany. Feel the same about that flag?

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The South's best chance to win the war was in the first two-three years before the economic and manpower resources of the north were fully mobalised. It is one of the great 'what ifs?' of history, what would have happened if the Confederacy had taken Washington DC early in the war. It probably would not have ended the war but it would have heavily tipped the war in the South's favour and added extra legitimacy to the arguments that Britain and France should recognise the republic.

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None of my business but i vote yes, it represents a part of your countrys history, its not as if anyone waving it at the Olympics,

Same could be said about the Nazi flag with respect to Germany. Feel the same about that flag?

Honestly? Yes. I think free people should be allowed to represent themselves as they wish but bringing that up in this conversation is unfair, why the drawing of a parrallel between that the regime that ennacted the holocaust, cuz of slavery? OK, I can see how or why someone would say that but then why should the Union Jack get away? See what I'm saying, if we're gonna start referring to history to decide this kinda shit then there's gonna have to be a lot more flags pulled down than just the Confederacy, why pick on them? The Nazi flag is more synonymous exclusively with that particular evil regime, it's not the same thing with the flag of the confederacy, it is not the flag of slavery, it represents a lot more, thats just something that happened under it. A massive crime yes, an uparralleled atrocity that can not and must not be forgotten...but that isn't the whole of what that flag represents anymore than the whole of what the Union Jack represents is the particular fucked up things that happened under it. You don't change history or do anything positive by banning that flag, you just alienate people and make yourself look kinda stupid.

Edited by Len B'stard
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None of my business but i vote yes, it represents a part of your countrys history, its not as if anyone waving it at the Olympics,

Same could be said about the Nazi flag with respect to Germany. Feel the same about that flag?

Honestly? Yes. I think free people should be allowed to represent themselves as they wish but bringing that up in this conversation is unfair, why the drawing of a parrallel between that the regime that ennacted the holocaust, cuz of slavery? OK, I can see how or why someone would say that but then why should the Union Jack get away? See what I'm saying, if we're gonna start referring to history to decide this kinda shit then there's gonna have to be a lot more flags pulled down than just the Confederacy, why pick on them? The Nazi flag is more synonymous exclusively with that particular evil regime, it's not the same thing with the flag of the confederacy, it is not the flag of slavery, it represents a lot more, thats just something that happened under it. A massive crime yes, an atrocity...but that isn't the whole of what that flag represents anymore than the whole of what the Union Jack represents is the particular fucked up things that happened under it.

Sorry, but no. The flag was re-intrepreted in the late 1940s to reflect state rights, but up until that point, it was the battle flag flown to represent the states who were supporting the institution of slavery. My suggestion is that you read up on the history of the flag, particularly its misappropriate by Dixie-segragationists in the late 1940s and 1950s.

Free people can do as they please, and other free people can judge the shit out of them based on their actions. If states like South Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi wish to fly a flag that historically represented the side of the war that fought for their right to have slaves, then they should be shamed and judged accordingly.

Finally, the last time I checked, the losing side does not get to decide which flag to hang.

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Govt institutions, no, they shouldn't fly it. Private institutions, stay the fuck out, none of your business. Sure, the statehouse shouldn't be flying a flag, but don't you dare tell someone they aren't allowed to on their property.

Much to the shagrin of many, it is a historical symbol. And it is a sign of states' rights. If some interpret it differently, that is their problem. But free expression is free expression, whether it offends you or not. That is the most important thing in all of this. Not whether someone feels offended.

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Govt institutions, no, they shouldn't fly it. Private institutions, stay the fuck out, none of your business. Sure, the statehouse shouldn't be flying a flag, but don't you dare tell someone they aren't allowed to on their property.

Much to the shagrin of many, it is a historical symbol. And it is a sign of states' rights. If some interpret it differently, that is their problem. But free expression is free expression, whether it offends you or not. That is the most important thing in all of this. Not whether someone feels offended.

I love the "states rights" argument. Riiggghhhttt. How dare Washington tells us fine folk from South Carolina how to treat our black citizens? A symbol steeped in the institution of slavery, that was later reimagined and popularized as a symbol to counter the black civil rights movement of the 1940s through 1960s, is now suddenly a benign flag bearer for state rights in all matters. Bullshit.

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In my experience, it's represented by rednecks and people who think they're racist. I've never seen someone show that flag purely for the "real" or "original" meaning behind it, because just like the Nazi flag, the meaning behind it has been changed over the course of history, no matter how much someone wants to argue whatever it's original or true meaning is.

That said, leave it out of public places (state houses, etc.), but if some asshole wants to display it in their front yard, so be it. Just a warning to people that they're an asshole.

But that's just it, it doesn't have a "real" or "original" meaning that isn't based on inherent racism. It served as the battle flag for the side that was defending the institution of slavery. It later became the symbol for push back on the civil rights movement in the 20th century. There never really was a time when the flag didn't represent white supremacy.

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In my experience, it's represented by rednecks and people who think they're racist. I've never seen someone show that flag purely for the "real" or "original" meaning behind it, because just like the Nazi flag, the meaning behind it has been changed over the course of history, no matter how much someone wants to argue whatever it's original or true meaning is.

That said, leave it out of public places (state houses, etc.), but if some asshole wants to display it in their front yard, so be it. Just a warning to people that they're an asshole.

But that's just it, it doesn't have a "real" or "original" meaning that isn't based on inherent racism. It served as the battle flag for the side that was defending the institution of slavery. It later became the symbol for push back on the civil rights movement in the 20th century. There never really was a time when the flag didn't represent white supremacy.

Well yeah, I get that. It's just a matter of getting others to get that lol. But people are acting like it's always had a deeper meaning, and are trying to defend the flag and whatever that meaning is.

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None of my business but i vote yes, it represents a part of your countrys history, its not as if anyone waving it at the Olympics,

Same could be said about the Nazi flag with respect to Germany. Feel the same about that flag?

Honestly? Yes. I think free people should be allowed to represent themselves as they wish but bringing that up in this conversation is unfair, why the drawing of a parrallel between that the regime that ennacted the holocaust, cuz of slavery? OK, I can see how or why someone would say that but then why should the Union Jack get away? See what I'm saying, if we're gonna start referring to history to decide this kinda shit then there's gonna have to be a lot more flags pulled down than just the Confederacy, why pick on them? The Nazi flag is more synonymous exclusively with that particular evil regime, it's not the same thing with the flag of the confederacy, it is not the flag of slavery, it represents a lot more, thats just something that happened under it. A massive crime yes, an atrocity...but that isn't the whole of what that flag represents anymore than the whole of what the Union Jack represents is the particular fucked up things that happened under it.

Sorry, but no. The flag was re-intrepreted in the late 1940s to reflect state rights, but up until that point, it was the battle flag flown to represent the states who were supporting the institution of slavery. My suggestion is that you read up on the history of the flag, particularly its misappropriate by Dixie-segragationists in the late 1940s and 1950s.

Free people can do as they please, and other free people can judge the shit out of them based on their actions. If states like South Carolina, Alabama, and Mississippi wish to fly a flag that historically represented the side of the war that fought for their right to have slaves, then they should be shamed and judged accordingly.

Finally, the last time I checked, the losing side does not get to decide which flag to hang.

You're re-framing the argument here as whether or not states should fly it, like officially, i wasnt saying that, i was reacting to Vals question which appeared to be about whether or not it should be gotten rid of wholesale, as in banned altogether.

I dont mind the people that judge those people who, privately, wish to fly the flag...or even the nazi one you bought up, in the latter instance I'd probably be one of them...but banning flags, in a free country, really?

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In my experience, it's represented by rednecks and people who think they're racist. I've never seen someone show that flag purely for the "real" or "original" meaning behind it, because just like the Nazi flag, the meaning behind it has been changed over the course of history, no matter how much someone wants to argue whatever it's original or true meaning is.

That said, leave it out of public places (state houses, etc.), but if some asshole wants to display it in their front yard, so be it. Just a warning to people that they're an asshole.

But that's just it, it doesn't have a "real" or "original" meaning that isn't based on inherent racism. It served as the battle flag for the side that was defending the institution of slavery. It later became the symbol for push back on the civil rights movement in the 20th century. There never really was a time when the flag didn't represent white supremacy.

Regardless, the first amendment should make it acceptable for those racist assholes to have a flag on their own private property. The problem is when it's on public property (like the SC State House).

And don't even get me started on that "it's not about slavery, it's about state's rights!" bullshit. What a stupid argument to make :lol:

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In my experience, it's represented by rednecks and people who think they're racist. I've never seen someone show that flag purely for the "real" or "original" meaning behind it, because just like the Nazi flag, the meaning behind it has been changed over the course of history, no matter how much someone wants to argue whatever it's original or true meaning is.

Original meaning of the nazi flag? If you're referring to the hindu thing i think you'll find that symbol still represents that across the vast majority in of the world, throughout Asia, the largest continent and all over in Hindu temples in the west and...just everywhere, shit the guy who runs the cornershop down the road has one on the front step of his shop, that symbol (of which the Nazi version is an inversion anyway) is still known throughout the world for its original meaning.

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In my experience, it's represented by rednecks and people who think they're racist. I've never seen someone show that flag purely for the "real" or "original" meaning behind it, because just like the Nazi flag, the meaning behind it has been changed over the course of history, no matter how much someone wants to argue whatever it's original or true meaning is.

Original meaning of the nazi flag? If you're referring to the hindu thing i think you'll find that symbol still represents that across the vast majority in of the world, throughout Asia, the largest continent and all over in Hindu temples in the west and...just everywhere, shit the guy who runs the cornershop down the road has one on the front step of his shop, that symbol (of which the Nazi version is an inversion anyway) is still known throughout the world for its original meaning.

And what I'm saying is someone flying the Nazi flag isn't flying it because they're representing the original meaning, whatever that may be. Same applies for the confederate flag.

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Govt institutions, no, they shouldn't fly it. Private institutions, stay the fuck out, none of your business. Sure, the statehouse shouldn't be flying a flag, but don't you dare tell someone they aren't allowed to on their property.

Much to the shagrin of many, it is a historical symbol. And it is a sign of states' rights. If some interpret it differently, that is their problem. But free expression is free expression, whether it offends you or not. That is the most important thing in all of this. Not whether someone feels offended.

I love the "states rights" argument. Riiggghhhttt. How dare Washington tells us fine folk from South Carolina how to treat our black citizens? A symbol steeped in the institution of slavery, that was later reimagined and popularized as a symbol to counter the black civil rights movement of the 1940s through 1960s, is now suddenly a benign flag bearer for state rights in all matters. Bullshit.

I love the states rights argument as well. Too often states rights nowadays are circumvented, such as marijuana, or gay marriage, or drinking ages. How dare Washington DC tell us to do anything not explicitly granted to them in the constitution? Yea, that's a pretty big part of the founding principle or our country. I don't support the confederacy, or slavery, of anything remotely related. But I will continue to support the freedom to express ones' opinion despite if it offends someone. If a state passes a law, that does not violate a legal federal law (one granted to it by the Constitution) that state law is valid.
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Govt institutions, no, they shouldn't fly it. Private institutions, stay the fuck out, none of your business. Sure, the statehouse shouldn't be flying a flag, but don't you dare tell someone they aren't allowed to on their property.

Much to the shagrin of many, it is a historical symbol. And it is a sign of states' rights. If some interpret it differently, that is their problem. But free expression is free expression, whether it offends you or not. That is the most important thing in all of this. Not whether someone feels offended.

I love the "states rights" argument. Riiggghhhttt. How dare Washington tells us fine folk from South Carolina how to treat our black citizens? A symbol steeped in the institution of slavery, that was later reimagined and popularized as a symbol to counter the black civil rights movement of the 1940s through 1960s, is now suddenly a benign flag bearer for state rights in all matters. Bullshit.

I love the states rights argument as well. Too often states rights nowadays are circumvented, such as marijuana, or gay marriage, or drinking ages. How dare Washington DC tell us to do anything not explicitly granted to them in the constitution? Yea, that's a pretty big part of the founding principle or our country. I don't support the confederacy, or slavery, of anything remotely related. But I will continue to support the freedom to express ones' opinion despite if it offends someone. If a state passes a law, that does not violate a legal federal law (one granted to it by the Constitution) that state law is valid.

Except those things you mentioned have nothing to do with kidnapping people from another continent and enslaving them in barbaric ways. Also if anyone who has a Confederate flag wanted to make a statement about state's rights, why not get a current flag of the state they live in? You know, since it's still actually a thing and isn't a losing entity in a war from exactly 150 years ago...

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