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Why Slash deserves and has so much more respect in 2015 compared to Axl.


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Everything bad that has happened to GNR over the years is Axl's fault. I'm not even talking about the old band. The new band was cool, it had a 2000s look and lots of talent. But yeah... He decided to screw with his employees too. I guess Axl is a slow dude and it takes a while for him to understand how things work.

He by no means is a perfectionist. He has no production skills and should have never come close to a synth or drum machine. He is a rock singer with a big ego.

Axl didn't fight the hard fight. He didn't take the harder way. He didn't struggle against evil corporations or piracy. He failed because he basically chose to fail.

The world was out there for him to try to #conquer. Media could have been used on his favor if he knew how to deal with them.

Nobody was out ta get Axl. People wanted a new album and wanted to like it.

In the end, it becomes clear that Axl is not very smart. Slash did some stupid stuff (most are exaggeration by Axl fanatics) but the guy is functional and professional. Axl is a stupid lazy kid.

I disagree with that. He is indeed a perfectionist. He is utterly insecure about his work and needs it to be 'perfect'.

Read what Alice Cooper said about when they dueted on The Garden. Alice did his stuff in one take, Axl did like a dozen or so takes because he needed it to be perfect.

Axl could've incorporate synth machines and drum machines into rock if he'd done it in a tasteful way. Some of (old) GN'R's demos feature drum machines and they're okay.

I agree with you though on your main points. Axl can talk about all the conspiracies he wants, but ultimately he was the one who was mainly responsible for both the demise of the classic era lineups (Steven wasn't his fault but the rest was), and the splintering and wasted potential of every new GNR lineup.

Axl is smart. Too smart for his own good to the point that he overthinks shit, questions himself too much, and those around him, and fucks up because of that. If he was a little less intelligent, a little less concerned with making the best album ever with every album he's done, we'd have a lot more stuff from him. He is too smart, and too introspective for his own good.

Axl never denied being lazy. But he's not stupid. Just insecure.

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This actually is a good segue-way to some questions I myself had:

Was Axl Rose, by 1991, more of a liability to Guns than an asset?
On one hand, whether you like the song and video and what they represent or not, NR did send GN'R soaring to a whole new level of popularity. You have Axl's larger than life personality which even as late as 2006 drew the mainstream in, and always kept people guessing. Axl is and has always been one of those people who even during their lifetimes seem more than your average person; they have a mystique, an aura - like Jim Morrison. Axl's personality is a big part of why Guns became big in the first place - You could argue his charisma is, in part, what set Guns apart from Motley Crue or Great White - He was a lot more interesting as a person than Vince Neil or Jack Russell, and a lot more talented lyrically. He was also a lot more 'real' in his lyricism than either - this was a guy speaking from genuine experience and with genuine issues; a genuine 'badass' who had really done time in jail and didn't just talk the talk. Because of him we have songs like Estranged, November Rain and Breakdown. It's because of him that Welcome to the Jungle has the catchy lyrics it has. He spoke to perhaps not all of Gen X - but to a certain segment of the younger Boomers and Gen X.
On the other hand...You have from 1991 to 1994 the needless late starts, sometimes with the show starting 2-3 hours after the opening act had left, leaving the fans waiting in total 4, 5 hours just to see the band. The riots. The rants. The childish tracks like Shotgun Blues and Get in the Ring and Back Off Bitch. The really fucking stupid stage outfits that make almost every UYI show terribly cheesy to watch. The bizarre vocal overdubs and weird sound effects all over the UYIs (IE the bubble sounds on Garden of Eden, all his corny vocal overdubs). Dizzy Reed. The Vegas style back-up band in 1992. The wife-beating allegations.
Stopping shows in the middle of a song to call out a fan, even if the fan was in the wrong. Stopping songs right in the middle and threatening to leave, killing the momentum of the show and probably any fun the band was having, and probably making the audience nervous. The 'Trilogy' - mainly the Estranged video as the worst offender. The self-absorbed, Hollywood, prima donna horseshit - affecting a Martyr/Jesus look (with the beard in 1992), the self-indulgent photo shoots while refusing to take group shots with the band after 1991, the horrid and cringeworthy short shorts, chest protector and other very bizarre clothes he wore on stage, performing with Elton John and a 120 piece orchestra while Nirvana ripped up the stage with Lithium, the past-lives regression therapy nonsense that he began promoting to the media in 1992....
Taking it back a little further, Axl's inclusion of the N word and slurs at gays and immigrants, made GN'R forever appear like the band of the KKK and of dumb jocks. That alone made Guns as a whole ripe for crucifixion as cultural dinosaurs - as nothing more than relics of the long ago '70s rather than a band for now (the 1990s) by the likes of Cobain etc. Axl provided the media and his enemies with plenty of ammunition for the assassination of both his character, his reputation, and the reputation of Guns N' Roses as a whole, which by association tarred (at the time - the '90s) the other band members.
All of these factors served to make GN'R as a whole - and not simply Axl himself - seem dated well before what should've been their expiration date. The 1990s should have been their prime, their peak - and in some ways, '91-93 was their peak. But by 1993, due to all the stuff I outlined above, Guns, even if they were still very much popular, were greatly disliked and viewed as something of a cool joke. Banal. Vulgar, and not in a fun way - lewd. A turn off. The Steven Seagal of Hard Rock. Old fashioned, retro, and more like a parody of a rock band than a group to be taken seriously. A real life Spinal Tap.
Axl's pomposity, and his divisive nature, is what made GN'R a popular target of the Grunge acts. Kurt Cobain never really attacked GN'R as a whole - He attacked Axl using the name "GN'R" IE "GN'R are a band of sexist, racist jerks", as Axl in the public eye represented GN'R. Axl is what made bands like Soundgarden and Metallica, who might've gotten along with the rest of Guns, despise GN'R. Axl is the one who caused the band to barely break even on the massively popular UYI tour because of his indulgent theme parties.
If you read Duff's book, while an addict ultimately has no one else to blame for their addiction but themselves, Duff makes it clear that the band drank/drugged in excess to cope with the long waits and the fear of rioting and a repeat of St. Louis or worse. "Axl's late? Let's have another vodka/snort of coke." Axl made everything that was supposed to be fun be more of a dread for the band. Axl, at least from Duff's POV, had this habit of turning every grand victory or what should've been a huge moment, into either a neutral sort of meh or a defeat. Izzy stopped wanting to deal with Guns day to day after Chicago - and Chicago was Axl's whole idea, and then he didn't even bother to show up for a month. Axl broke the band's sense of togetherness/gang mentality permanently when he called them out publicly for drugs.
While it can be argued that the public probably wouldn't have been nearly as interested in GN'R if it weren't for Axl - he was the unpredictable element that made GN'R a dangerous, rebellious, explosive element - "The Most Dangerous Band in the World", it can also be argued that if Axl had been fired in say...1991? 1990? The band might've come out of the 1990s both together and with a much better reputation.
I mean, Axl says Slash was the one holding GN'R back from musically progressing. That Slash didn't want to do the 'hard work' of moving GN'R forward or even pushing himself or challenging himself musically as a guitarist. And yet Slash is the guy who from all accounts brought Coma in as a mostly complete vehicle - a ten minute long progressive metal song with multiple changes. Slash is the guy who is largely responsible for Locomotive, another progressive rock number with a funk groove - something quite unique. Slash, Duff and Izzy, without Axl being around, worked out Locomotive, Bad Apples, Civil War, Pretty Tied Up, Don't Damn Me, Dust N' Bones and The Garden musically around 1989.
It can be argued that it was Axl's mental issues along with his perfectionism and also intermittent writer's block that kept the UYIs from being released in 1989, or 1990. That the band without him might not have released two albums, which has left the legacy of the albums in doubt due to the amount of filler equaling the number of great tracks.
The UYI songs, if we take them as instrumentals, if they were mixed rawer, would've been utterly contemporary in 1991, cutting edge. Not Nirvana, but utterly fitting with what was huge in the early/mid 90s. Pretty Tied Up and Locomotive musically sound like something Pearl Jam would've put out on Ten. It's Axl's lyrics that turn them into either childish misogynistic pieces or self-indulgent head trips. It's Axl's vocal effects and overdubs and the addition of Dizzy Reed that rip from the songs that raw power they could've had. It's the mixing - which I no doubt Axl oversaw or had a heavy hand in - which leaves the actual recordings of the UYI recordings sounding polished, sterile, with Matt's drums mixed so flat and Duff's bass given that dated early 90s slap.
I know myself, that Axl's vocals and the production, for me is what drags down the UYIs. I love the UYIs in spite of Axl's vocal performances and stupid noises - not because of them. On some tracks he vocally shines and others he is too high in the mix and is a pain to listen to, and all the songs are mixed horribly, leaving Matt who is a great drummer to sound like a drum machine, and Slash's guitar to sound overly polished and lacking in balls.
So, my question to you is, might GN'R have been better off without Axl after the UYIs?
Axl said openly Slash should've left after Lies. But maybe it should be the other way around - But then again, maybe without Axl, the band would've faded rapidly into obscurity and irrelevance as The Doors did without Jim Morrison, and maybe it was Axl's antics and volatile nature and vision that kept them unique in 1991 - After all, it cannot be denied that November Rain, Axl's vision captured in a single song, gave GN'R a second wind - chart wise and cultural relevance wise, it's their biggest hit only after SCOM - no other song of theirs was as big a hit as those two, and their creation was led by Axl - NR being his direct product, and SCOM being his seeing something potentially big where Slash saw just a worthless, stupid circus sounding guitar riff.
It can be argued, too, that left to their own devices, the band might NOT have pushed themselves to create stuff like Locomotive to "please" Axl or meet his expectations for the next album, and that Slash, Duff etc might have instead been content to create an AFD II - pleasing to the fans, but making GN'R no different than Crue in the long run. I have no doubt that Slash, Duff circa 1991 would've had no problem with pumping out an album of Paradise City style tracks.
It can be argued that, while humiliating, Axl's public call-out of the band on the issue of drugs might've saved their lives and forced at least short-term sobriety. It can be argued (from an objective standpoint putting aside any personal dislike of Dizzy as a person or musician) that the addition of Dizzy Reed, objectively, was an attempt to introduce a new element into their music rather than be AC/DC. It can be argued that the addition of the Big Band in 1992 was an attempt to give the audience a larger and thus more thrilling show, following the model he had seen on the Stones 1989 tour.
So, my question to you is,
What about Axl? Was he more a hindrance to Guns N' Roses after say, 1988, or a help? Should he have been sacked - or would the band have died (figuratively and possibly literally) without him? What should we think of Axl?
Might GN'R have appeared much less of a joke without his presence in the 1990s?
Might the UYIs have been better albums without Axl's lyrics in some places, and without his effects?

Great post man. You articulated many things much better than I ever could have.

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Axl hasn't done anything to advance GNR since 97. But his presence in the early 90's made Gn'R as big as they were. Maybe it was a hindrance at times? But GN'R without Axl would have been a level of mediocracy we see with every other band (NuGNR is below this line though)

I just can't imagine the band without Axl's antics. He made them the global phenomenon that they became.

Axl is crazy though. Time doesn't heal anything for this man, he's equally as angry with Slash as he was when Slash did snake pit. Slash was never that mad at Axl. He just went along with it. I think Axl did things that made Slash mad but like a normal human he got over them quickly.

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Slash has still been in the public eye after GNR's split.

Axl has always been seen as the one who has wanted to control everything and Slash just this laid back guy who wanted to play guitar.

Do you think GNR would have gotten so huge if it were up to Slash. They all bitched about how GNR had to be Axl's way, well, they all benefited by GNR's success.

GNR isn't the only band who made it so big that they eventually had to break up. It happens but ever since then it's like Slash's the good boy and Axl's the bad boy. Whatever! I'm sick of hearing it.

Axl does whatever the hell he wants. Be happy for the amazing GNR music. All the shit Axl went through with his emotions and drepression back in the day, he deserves to just chill now.

Plenty of my favorite musicians have either quit, died and just don't make as much music as they did in their early years. I respect that. I'm glad for the time they gave to their fans. Doesn't everyone deserve a little rest and time off from the craziness of the touring?

Axl knows he and the rest of the original GNR will never be as HUGE as they once were, if they are satisfied with it, we should be too.

I mean they are all getting paid for GNR, I'm sure they are all happy about that.

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If you look at everything Slash said, it was all true.

- Axl was not turning up to the studio 1994-96. Well, do you see Axl in the studio much these days? Also other people have related stories of working on CD and never seeing Axl.

- Tobias was a wanker. Axl dropped Tobias in 2002 after only four gigs so obviously Slash was right about him.

- Nine Inch Nails? Well I can see what Slash is getting on about when I listen to Oh My God and Silk Worms.

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Did Axl actually dump Tobias or did Tobias just decide touring wasn't for him?

Sorry for going off topic, but I don't think so Axl would dump Tobias, it wasnt about the touring either, Its hard to think what could have been the actual problem, like he couldn't have been bullied cause he was the buddy of Axl, in terms of money, touring with Axl would be the best opportunity for anyone. I assume he din't even know how to even play the guitar, but that also dint matter when you have amazing talents like Fink and bucket at that time. The real reason why he left would remain unknown.

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I think Axl is way more interesting creatively than Slash but I find Slash more interesting as a person than I do Axl.

I can imagine myself having a long conversation with Slash and I've got many questions I'd like to ask him, some he's maybe not been asked before. Whether he'd answer them or not is another thing. But at least I can imagine conversing with him and him not going into a tirade against me. Axl... I wouldn't even go there. I find much of how he's conducted himself over the years just exhausting and exasperating.

Does Slash actually deserve more respect than Axl? Not necessarily. They've both earned respect in different ways and lost it in different ways. It's just that Slash is more able to conduct himself on a day-to-day basis in a way that's socially acceptable and is more media-friendly whereas Axl is often fighting others or his own 'stuff.' I'm sorry for him for that.

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He releases new material, sure not every song is perfect, but a few good songs per album equals a fantastic setlist.

He tours extensively, with new material to promote, and you can always expect a show to be good.

He's likable, doesn't run late for shows, and has gained respect and friendship from so many other musicians.

He's offered peace to Axl, Axl wants none of it, which makes Axl look bad.

Whoever is working behind the scenes is clearly not as amateuristic and laughable as Team Brazil, which makes him have much more business sense.

The band he's gathered show no visible signs of drama, whereas GNR has a revolving door of musicians due to Axl's passiveness.

He hasn't changed much. He's still that on stage persona that we've always seen, and it doesn't vary from year to year how much it looks like he's enjoying himself.

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I think Axl is way more interesting creatively than Slash but I find Slash more interesting as a person than I do Axl.

I can imagine myself having a long conversation with Slash and I've got many questions I'd like to ask him, some he's maybe not been asked before. Whether he'd answer them or not is another thing. But at least I can imagine conversing with him and him not going into a tirade against me. Axl... I wouldn't even go there. I find much of how he's conducted himself over the years just exhausting and exasperating.

Does Slash actually deserve more respect than Axl? Not necessarily. They've both earned respect in different ways and lost it in different ways. It's just that Slash is more able to conduct himself on a day-to-day basis in a way that's socially acceptable and is more media-friendly whereas Axl is often fighting others or his own 'stuff.' I'm sorry for him for that.

I imagine it to be the other way around. Slash by his own admission isn't a big talker, he plays the PR game well but I get the impression he wouldn't be into talking shit for hours. Axl on the other hand will reportedly chat candidly for hours with a vast array of people (if you catch him right place, time and mood).

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I think Axl is way more interesting creatively than Slash but I find Slash more interesting as a person than I do Axl.

I can imagine myself having a long conversation with Slash and I've got many questions I'd like to ask him, some he's maybe not been asked before. Whether he'd answer them or not is another thing. But at least I can imagine conversing with him and him not going into a tirade against me. Axl... I wouldn't even go there. I find much of how he's conducted himself over the years just exhausting and exasperating.

Does Slash actually deserve more respect than Axl? Not necessarily. They've both earned respect in different ways and lost it in different ways. It's just that Slash is more able to conduct himself on a day-to-day basis in a way that's socially acceptable and is more media-friendly whereas Axl is often fighting others or his own 'stuff.' I'm sorry for him for that.

I imagine it to be the other way around. Slash by his own admission isn't a big talker, he plays the PR game well but I get the impression he wouldn't be into talking shit for hours. Axl on the other hand will reportedly chat candidly for hours with a vast array of people (if you catch him right place, time and mood).

I just was gonna say that, from what I have heard when Axl is in a good mood, then he will talk to you for hours and be very friendly and when he is pissed at you then he will hate you to death, If I was hanging around with both of them then I would assume that Axl would talk normally and have funny talks with me for hours rather than Slash, I assume Slash will just talk from point to point, whereas with Axl you can have a nice chat about random things

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He releases new material, sure not every song is perfect, but a few good songs per album equals a fantastic setlist.

He tours extensively, with new material to promote, and you can always expect a show to be good.

He's likable, doesn't run late for shows, and has gained respect and friendship from so many other musicians.

He's offered peace to Axl, Axl wants none of it, which makes Axl look bad.

Whoever is working behind the scenes is clearly not as amateuristic and laughable as Team Brazil, which makes him have much more business sense.

The band he's gathered show no visible signs of drama, whereas GNR has a revolving door of musicians due to Axl's passiveness.

He hasn't changed much. He's still that on stage persona that we've always seen, and it doesn't vary from year to year how much it looks like he's enjoying himself.

Exactly!

Not to mention that his live guitar playing evolved a LOT more and he still makes mistakes, but almost NEVER plays sloppy anymore

Which is good if you went to one of his shows, because who the fuck wants to see a washed up guitar player who can't even play the intro riff of a song (ohwait....)

In GNR his slopyness was understandable, but i genuinely think he plays better nowadays, more focused and concentrated..... he lost a little feel of his guitar playing, but i'd say Slash is 80% Slash from his heydays, whereas Axl from 2011 onwards is 1% Axl from his heydays

Until 2010, i can defend Axl, because his voice is mostly very good (except 2002 but he still had energy back then)

After 2011 Rio, he became a former shadow of his self, his stage presence, antics, voice etc. decreased....

Do i really have to say it?

Slash maybe a media whore and put out too many average songs but he still managed to keep contemporary on his own game and started to maturate a lot

One thing worries me on these forums, that if you state that you still like Slash's solo output, you would be trolled things like "he is mediocre, he hasn't released a good song since GNR etc.) and sometimes i almost feel ashamed myself to show some love for Slash's work here... because the "quality over quantity" agenda people....

Don't get me wrong i criticise Slash on a regular basis and i hardly can stand Myles Kennedy but i saw them 4 days ago and they still delivers....

But if GNR playing near me i think twice before i buy a ticket these days.... that is why i haven't seen Axl's band since 2010

Edited by Strange Broue
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Axl has admitted in the past to feeling slighted at Slash's passive aggressive digs at him in the media over the years, but I think what he fails to comprehend is that the only person hung up on Slash's every word is Axl himself. It must be a lot easier to believe that the negative public opinion of him is entirely down to Slash instead of.... hmmm, lets see... late concert starts, cancelled shows, taking the GNR name and refusing to release new music with it, not bothering to rehearse with the band and being immortalized on Youtube sounding like complete shit, wasting the time and talents of numerous gifted guitarists who joined the band in good faith and slowly over the years lost the will to give a flying fuck. But no, it can't be any of those things, it has to be Slash's fault.

Axl seems to be completely oblivious to the fact that there was actually a tremendous amount of fans who WANTED NuGuns to work out. These people waited patiently, year in, year out for Chinese Democracy. These people stood by him while he showed up two hours late to concerts, while he continually delayed the release of CD, while he disappeared up his own ass for years on end, while he refused to promote his own album over something as trivial as a fucking lyric booklet, all the while dicking around brilliant musicians like Robin Finck, Ron Thal and Buckethead.

For someone who once prided themselves on it being about the music, how is it that Axl has wasted the best part of two decades doing fuck all while Slash has managed to steadily release new music on a regular basis? He may think that Slash is some kind of master-manipulator, only interested in furthering his own self-image at the expense of his former band, but just look at what Slash has produced in the time it has taken Axl to put out one solitary record. Actions speak louder than words. I truly believe Axl thinks Slash's successes have come at the cost of his failures. This ever-deluded maniac continues to blame everyone else but himself for the pathetic job he's done at keeping the Guns N Roses name alive.

It makes me sad that this post is a real description of what should have been the biggest rock band of all time.
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Slash has still been in the public eye after GNR's split.

Axl has always been seen as the one who has wanted to control everything and Slash just this laid back guy who wanted to play guitar.

Do you think GNR would have gotten so huge if it were up to Slash. They all bitched about how GNR had to be Axl's way, well, they all benefited by GNR's success.

GNR isn't the only band who made it so big that they eventually had to break up. It happens but ever since then it's like Slash's the good boy and Axl's the bad boy. Whatever! I'm sick of hearing it.

Axl does whatever the hell he wants. Be happy for the amazing GNR music. All the shit Axl went through with his emotions and drepression back in the day, he deserves to just chill now.

Plenty of my favorite musicians have either quit, died and just don't make as much music as they did in their early years. I respect that. I'm glad for the time they gave to their fans. Doesn't everyone deserve a little rest and time off from the craziness of the touring?

Axl knows he and the rest of the original GNR will never be as HUGE as they once were, if they are satisfied with it, we should be too.

I mean they are all getting paid for GNR, I'm sure they are all happy about that.

The way you twist things to make Axl look good and portray Slash as the bad guy is rather shocking.

Lol. You are sick of the way the music world has portrayed Axl and Slash. Really? Why do you think that has happened. Over a 30 year period. Maybe because the stereotypes of the two are TRUE representations of who they are? Lol you might try taking off your Rose colored glasses and looking at what has actually happened during the bands career.

And saying if Slash was in control that the band wouldn't have functioned. Wow. Slash has released 96 songs in the same period that Axl has released 15.

Slash showed up for every concert, rehearsal and jam/writing session with the classic line-up. Did Axl??????

Why can't Axl keep a band together? His best friend Izzy walked out on him. How many other guys since then? Slash. Duff. Adler. Gilby. Sorum. Bucket. Robin. Bumble. Hmmm notice a pattern there?

Lol. Axl does whatever the hell he wants. And that's what YOU like about him

To bad he didn't or doesn't "want" to show up to shows on time, write-practice-rehearse with his band, keep a band together, keep his fans up to date and most of all: share music with his fans.

Hell of an idol you got there Val

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