Moderation Discussion

[Apollo]

Moderation is a tough thing, and you will never be able to please 100% of the users. It's a thankless job.

My only issue with Downzy, and I've told him this personally, is that I (and many others) feel like he moderates certain topics with a clear double standard. IMO he isn't able to stay impartial in political discussions. Which is his right - but it becomes dangerous when he also controls the stick to suspend and ban people in those topics.

I believe a Mod should base their moderating powers on a topic based on what the posters actually post. And not on whether or not you agree or disagree with a poster's opinion.

It isn't really fair to make judgement calls. Example. Poster A tells poster B that he is crazy. Poster B responds that poster A is crazy. Moderator ONLY suspends Poster B. Even tho they both said the same thing. Why only one suspension? Because the Mod agrees with poster A on their beliefs and disagrees with poster B. And mod actually says "Poster A's insult was in good fun and no harm was attended. Poster B's insult was mean spirited."

Even tho they both said the same thing.

A couple posters will come here and disagree. You will notice they all swing to the same fence as Downzy.

If I was a Mod I wouldn't care if people liked or hated me. I would just want the to say that I treated everybody with equal standards.

****^^^^*

Annie is a real person.

She is just a huge over the top GnR fan.

Hopefully she is here to chat about GnR and not just to try and dig up dirt to take back to the other forum.

*********

It would be nice if everybody could just get along and be respectful of each other.

Look at GG. Guy has taken a lot of ridicule over the years after the Velvet Girl thing and when he got caught with made up documents.

But he never lashes out and is always very supportive of the community.

******

At the end of the day.......this is just a rock forum. And we are all just people, who would probably get along if we met in real life.

[downzy]

Moderation is a tough thing, and you will never be able to please 100% of the users. It's a thankless job.

My only issue with Downzy, and I've told him this personally, is that I (and many others) feel like he moderates certain topics with a clear double standard. IMO he isn't able to stay impartial in political discussions. Which is his right - but it becomes dangerous when he also controls the stick to suspend and ban people in those topics.

I believe a Mod should base their moderating powers on a topic based on what the posters actually post. And not on whether or not you agree or disagree with a poster's opinion.

****^^^^*

At the end of the day.......this is just a rock forum. And we are all just people, who would probably get along if we met in real life.

The American politics thread is 85 pages long. There are 15 posts per thread page; that's roughly 1275 posts. Out of those 1275 posts, only 4 posts were deleted/hidden (we generally never delete posts, we simply hide them to keep a record of them) with another two being edited (where I removed portions of the posts that were personal attacks that had nothing to do with the discussion). Of the four posts that were hidden, one was from a poster that almost exclusively agrees with my political perspective who personally attacked someone I almost never agree with. The three remaining hidden posts related to one member over one post and were removed as a result of personal attacks.

So you'll excuse me if I don't agree with your above point. We don't moderate opinions here, regardless of whether they align with a moderator/admin's or not. What we moderate is bad behaviour. If you want to state that Obama is the worst President ever, go right ahead. If you have an issue with me contesting that fact then perhaps you shouldn't be contributing to the topic or better yet, just ignore me.

As I mentioned in the numerous PMs I have sent you on the matter, the problem isn't your opinions on politics, religion or society. It's your behaviour towards people who you disagree with that results in you putting words in people's mouths, misrepresenting what they say, accusing people of being obsessed to an unhealthy degree, and then complaining when people accuse you of not being genuine. If you want to discuss and debate a topic, have at it. But once you start speaking personally about anyone, whether it be a fellow member or moderator, that's when a mod is forced to act. Politics is of particular interest to me as it was my line of studies while in school; hence it's why I read the politics threads far more than any other mod. At no point has any moderator or admin suggest that any of my very limited moderating actions within the politics thread was over the top or out of line (though I will acknowledge that my post to you a few weeks back was likely not my best moment and could have been written in a better tone). I have enough trust in all of them that should they have a problem with me in any which way, they would tell me.

We run this forum based on consensus. No one is suspended or banned from this forum based on a unilateral decision of one person. A lot of conversation goes on behind the scenes as we strive to strike the right balance between free speech and respect for fellow posters. We don't always get it right as we're human beings as well and susceptible of making mistakes.

Again, we make every effort to moderate behaviour, not opinions. If you can't be sincere or mature when stating that opinion, that's when we step in. For 95 percent of our members, this has never been a problem. As one of our staff members mentioned the other day, those who hate the moderating here the most are often those who need it the most. It's not a coincidence.

[Apollo]

Moderation is a tough thing, and you will never be able to please 100% of the users. It's a thankless job.

My only issue with Downzy, and I've told him this personally, is that I (and many others) feel like he moderates certain topics with a clear double standard. IMO he isn't able to stay impartial in political discussions. Which is his right - but it becomes dangerous when he also controls the stick to suspend and ban people in those topics.

I believe a Mod should base their moderating powers on a topic based on what the posters actually post. And not on whether or not you agree or disagree with a poster's opinion.

****^^^^*

At the end of the day.......this is just a rock forum. And we are all just people, who would probably get along if we met in real life.

The American politics thread is 85 pages long. There are 15 posts per thread page; that's roughly 1275 posts. Out of those 1275 posts, only 4 posts were deleted/hidden (we generally never delete posts, we simply hide them to keep a record of them) with another two being edited (where I removed portions of the thread that were personal attacks that had nothing to do with the discussion). Of the four posts that were hidden, one was from a poster that almost exclusively agrees with my political perspective who personally attacked someone I almost never agree with. The three remaining hidden posts related to one member over one post and were removed as a result of personal attacks.

So you'll excuse me if I don't agree with your above point. We don't moderate opinions here, regardless of whether they align with a moderator/admin's or not. What we moderate is bad behaviour. If you want to state that Obama is the worst President ever, go right ahead. If you have an issue with me contesting that fact then perhaps you shouldn't be contributing to the topic or better yet, just ignore me.

As I mentioned in the numerous PMs I have sent you on the matter, the problem isn't your opinions on politics, religion or society. It's your behaviour towards people who you disagree with that results in you putting words in people's mouths, misrepresenting what they say, accusing people of being obsessed to an unhealthy degree, and then complaining when people accuse you of not being genuine. If you want to discuss and debate a topic, have at it. But once you start speaking personally about anyone, whether it be a fellow member or moderator, that's when a mod is forced to act. Politics is of particular interest to me as it was my line of studies while in school; hence it's why I read the politics threads far more than any other mod. At no point has any moderator or admin suggest that any of my very limited moderating actions within the politics thread was over the top or out of line (though I will acknowledge that my post to you a few weeks back was likely not my best moment and could have been written in a better tone). I have enough trust in all of them that should they have a problem with me in any which way, they would tell me.

We run this forum based on consensus. No one is suspended or banned from this forum based on a unilateral decision from one person. A lot of conversation goes on behind the scenes as we strive to strike the right balance between free speech and respect for fellow posters. We don't always get it right as we're human beings as well and susceptible of making mistakes.

Again, we make every effort to moderate behaviour, not opinions. If you can't be sincere or mature when stating that opinion, that's when we step in. For 95 percent of our members, this has never been a problem. As one of our staff members mentioned the other day, those who hate the moderating here the most are often those who need it the most. It's not a coincidence.

We will just agree to disagree.

If you don't think you have a double standard in that topic, in spite of all the evidence and people who say that you do......then there really isn't anything to discuss. Hell, yesterday the first two topics I read had one dude making negative remarks about republicans. Neither topic had ANYTHING to do with politics. If I start posting anti-democrat posts in topics that aren't related to politics, I'm fairly certain I'll hear about it pretty quickly.

It's your forum and obviously you can do whatever you want.

Like you well know, I was gloriously happy when you took over the forum and said that publically many times. I was a huge fan of yours and always put you in my list of top five posters. I was as happy as anybody here when you took over.

And I've never complained about how the overall team was moderating the majority of the forum. You've got some great mods and a couple lame ones. But that's how every forum is. All in all, I think this forum is moderated pretty fairly and pretty solid. Russ and a couple others are awesome.

My only complaint is how you specifically Mod one specific topic, which you admit is a topic that you are extremely passionate about. Which you admit you've made mistakes in on the way you've responded to people. A topic that has changed me - s omebody who listed you as being one of the five best posters on the forum - to somebody who has posted here since 2001 but now doesn't post that often and is thinking of leaving. You've got posters that I'm not even "friends" with who point out there is a huge double standard in the politics area. And the people who say there isn't......coincidently are the guys who are hard core democrats and agree with everything you say. Coincidence?

It just boggles my mind that a guy as smart as you are, can't look at this with an open mind and think "hhmm, where there is smoke there usually is fire. Maybe I am moderating that section differently than I do other topics." Do you think all of us are just making this up? What purpose would that serve, other than to get banned from a forum I've been posting at for 15 years. Like I said, I use to be one of your biggest fans on here.

But don't worry. I am staying out of the political topic. There is a vocal group that posts there that isn't going for a discussion, but rather just to bash the other party. I'm enjoying posting in all the other topics on the board, like I have for the past 15 years.

[downzy]

Moderation is a tough thing, and you will never be able to please 100% of the users. It's a thankless job.

My only issue with Downzy, and I've told him this personally, is that I (and many others) feel like he moderates certain topics with a clear double standard. IMO he isn't able to stay impartial in political discussions. Which is his right - but it becomes dangerous when he also controls the stick to suspend and ban people in those topics.

I believe a Mod should base their moderating powers on a topic based on what the posters actually post. And not on whether or not you agree or disagree with a poster's opinion.

****^^^^*

At the end of the day.......this is just a rock forum. And we are all just people, who would probably get along if we met in real life.

The American politics thread is 85 pages long. There are 15 posts per thread page; that's roughly 1275 posts. Out of those 1275 posts, only 4 posts were deleted/hidden (we generally never delete posts, we simply hide them to keep a record of them) with another two being edited (where I removed portions of the thread that were personal attacks that had nothing to do with the discussion). Of the four posts that were hidden, one was from a poster that almost exclusively agrees with my political perspective who personally attacked someone I almost never agree with. The three remaining hidden posts related to one member over one post and were removed as a result of personal attacks.

So you'll excuse me if I don't agree with your above point. We don't moderate opinions here, regardless of whether they align with a moderator/admin's or not. What we moderate is bad behaviour. If you want to state that Obama is the worst President ever, go right ahead. If you have an issue with me contesting that fact then perhaps you shouldn't be contributing to the topic or better yet, just ignore me.

As I mentioned in the numerous PMs I have sent you on the matter, the problem isn't your opinions on politics, religion or society. It's your behaviour towards people who you disagree with that results in you putting words in people's mouths, misrepresenting what they say, accusing people of being obsessed to an unhealthy degree, and then complaining when people accuse you of not being genuine. If you want to discuss and debate a topic, have at it. But once you start speaking personally about anyone, whether it be a fellow member or moderator, that's when a mod is forced to act. Politics is of particular interest to me as it was my line of studies while in school; hence it's why I read the politics threads far more than any other mod. At no point has any moderator or admin suggest that any of my very limited moderating actions within the politics thread was over the top or out of line (though I will acknowledge that my post to you a few weeks back was likely not my best moment and could have been written in a better tone). I have enough trust in all of them that should they have a problem with me in any which way, they would tell me.

We run this forum based on consensus. No one is suspended or banned from this forum based on a unilateral decision from one person. A lot of conversation goes on behind the scenes as we strive to strike the right balance between free speech and respect for fellow posters. We don't always get it right as we're human beings as well and susceptible of making mistakes.

Again, we make every effort to moderate behaviour, not opinions. If you can't be sincere or mature when stating that opinion, that's when we step in. For 95 percent of our members, this has never been a problem. As one of our staff members mentioned the other day, those who hate the moderating here the most are often those who need it the most. It's not a coincidence.

We will just agree to disagree.

If you don't think you have a double standard in that topic, in spite of all the evidence and people who say that you do......then there really isn't anything to discuss. Hell, yesterday the first two topics I read had one dude making negative remarks about republicans. Neither topic had ANYTHING to do with politics. If I start posting anti-democrat posts in topics that aren't related to politics, I'm fairly certain I'll hear about it pretty quickly.

It's your forum and obviously you can do whatever you want.

Like you well know, I was gloriously happy when you took over the forum and said that publically many times. I was a huge fan of yours and always put you in my list of top five posters. I was as happy as anybody here when you took over.

And I've never complained about how the overall team was moderating the majority of the forum. You've got some great mods and a couple lame ones. But that's how every forum is. All in all, I think this forum is moderated pretty fairly and pretty solid. Russ and a couple others are awesome.

My only complaint is how you specifically Mod one specific topic, which you admit is a topic that you are extremely passionate about. Which you admit you've made mistakes in on the way you've responded to people. A topic that has changed me - s omebody who listed you as being one of the five best posters on the forum - to somebody who has posted here since 2001 but now doesn't post that often and is thinking of leaving. You've got posters that I'm not even "friends" with who point out there is a huge double standard in the politics area. And the people who say there isn't......coincidently are the guys who are hard core democrats and agree with everything you say. Coincidence?

It just boggles my mind that a guy as smart as you are, can't look at this with an open mind and think "hhmm, where there is smoke there usually is fire. Maybe I am moderating that section differently than I do other topics." Do you think all of us are just making this up? What purpose would that serve, other than to get banned from a forum I've been posting at for 15 years. Like I said, I use to be one of your biggest fans on here.

But don't worry. I am staying out of the political topic. There is a vocal group that posts there that isn't going for a discussion, but rather just to bash the other party. I'm enjoying posting in all the other topics on the board, like I have for the past 15 years.

Explain to me how removing 4 posts out of 1275, one of which was someone who aligns with my partisanship, is moderating a topic specifically? Again, you're making a judgement call that isn't supported by the facts. I've hid/removed more posts in the D&N section in the last week than I have throughout the entirety of the politics thread. We give general warnings and remove posts that include personal insults. I've only had to do that a few times in the politics thread. If I'm being completely honest, the problem isn't my moderation, it's that you don't agree with my posts or my responses to yours. It's not me that runs around the rest of forum taking shots at your political leanings. So before you respond, I'll have to ask how removing four posts out of 1275 equals over moderating or moderating based on opinion versus behaviour.

I get that people do not agree or even like my politics at times, but they're welcome to post in the 99 percent of other topics that have nothing to do with politics. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. Feel free to tell me so and why. If you're not able or willing to respond to my point of view, that's fine as well. It's no different than when Axl fans debate topics with Slash fans. So long as you attack the point and not the person then we won't have any issues.

If you feel as though the political thread has descended into nothing more than shitting on Republicans, well, perhaps that's just because there's a lot to shit on (I kid, I kid). But seriously, if you feel someone is wrong, say why. Just drop the character assassinations of those you're conversing with.

[AxlisOld]

Downzy is Canadian, the Constitution and the freedom of speech clause therein do not apply. Nor did it when a British guy ran the forum, or an Australian guy, or the Canadian before all of them.

Come to think of it, why do I come to this non American and therefore communist forum?

[Powerage5]

Downzy is Canadian, the Constitution and the freedom of speech clause therein do not apply. Nor did it when a British guy ran the forum, or an Australian guy, or the Canadian before all of them.

Come to think of it, why do I come to this non American and therefore communist forum?

I was about to say a Brit and an Australian never ran the forum...then I realized I was wrong

Sorry Subsy and HV

[Nosaj Thing]

Again, we make every effort to moderate behaviour, not opinions.

Time to change that rule when the opinion is solely based on nonsense and crazy paranoia. No forum would allow the likes of wasted running around and posting stuff only he understands. That's called spam, and spam is a violation of the ToS in 99.9% of the forums out there.

[downzy]

Again, we make every effort to moderate behaviour, not opinions.

Time to change that rule when the opinion is solely based on nonsense and crazy paranoia. No forum would allow the likes of wasted running around and posting stuff only he understands. That's called spam, and spam is a violation of the ToS in 99.9% of the forums out there.

What's considered nonsensical or not is more of a relative proposition. Moreover, I've never had a problem understanding what members like Wasted are saying.

[Słash]

I din't know where to post this, so ill ask it here. I know its wrong to be disrespectful, but some people claim they have inside contacts and new music or whatever will happen in 2016, so if no shit happens in 2016, can I tell that member/admin/mod "Fuck You (name of the person), No Shit happened Hahahaha" in a joking manner.

I just thought to ask before saying it and it will be just in a joking manner.

[downzy]

I din't know where to post this, so ill ask it here. I know its wrong to be disrespectful, but some people claim they have inside contacts and new music or whatever will happen in 2016, so if no shit happens in 2016, can I tell that member/admin/mod "Fuck You (name of the person), No Shit happened Hahahaha" in a joking manner.

I just thought to ask before saying it and it will be just in a joking manner.

Context matters. We try not to be too wooden about applying the rules. If it's obvious that you're joking around (and the person you're joking with is on the joke as well) then you shouldn't have a problem.

[Słash]

I din't know where to post this, so ill ask it here. I know its wrong to be disrespectful, but some people claim they have inside contacts and new music or whatever will happen in 2016, so if no shit happens in 2016, can I tell that member/admin/mod "Fuck You (name of the person), No Shit happened Hahahaha" in a joking manner.

I just thought to ask before saying it and it will be just in a joking manner.

Context matters. We try not to be too wooden about applying the rules. If it's obvious that you're joking around (and the person you're joking with is on the joke as well) then you shouldn't have a problem.

Thanks for replying, well just wanted to say that person would be you lol, is it ok if i say it to you in 2016? in a joking way.

[downzy]

I din't know where to post this, so ill ask it here. I know its wrong to be disrespectful, but some people claim they have inside contacts and new music or whatever will happen in 2016, so if no shit happens in 2016, can I tell that member/admin/mod "Fuck You (name of the person), No Shit happened Hahahaha" in a joking manner.

I just thought to ask before saying it and it will be just in a joking manner.

Context matters. We try not to be too wooden about applying the rules. If it's obvious that you're joking around (and the person you're joking with is on the joke as well) then you shouldn't have a problem.

Thanks for replying, well just wanted to say that person would be you lol, is it ok if i say it to you in 2016? in a joking way.

If I'm your intended target, feel free to say it in a non-joking way I still hold a lot of faith that we'll see something in 2016.

[Nosaj Thing]

Again, we make every effort to moderate behaviour, not opinions.

Time to change that rule when the opinion is solely based on nonsense and crazy paranoia. No forum would allow the likes of wasted running around and posting stuff only he understands. That's called spam, and spam is a violation of the ToS in 99.9% of the forums out there.

What's considered nonsensical or not is more of a relative proposition. Moreover, I've never had a problem understanding what members like Wasted are saying.

And? I have, and many of other posters have too. There's a fine line between your genuine opinion and a crazy nonsensical rambling. Wasted always does the latter, and while it shouldn't be a ban-worthy offense, moderation on this forum should request the spam shitposters to make sense. Simple as that.

[downzy]

Again, we make every effort to moderate behaviour, not opinions.

Time to change that rule when the opinion is solely based on nonsense and crazy paranoia. No forum would allow the likes of wasted running around and posting stuff only he understands. That's called spam, and spam is a violation of the ToS in 99.9% of the forums out there.

What's considered nonsensical or not is more of a relative proposition. Moreover, I've never had a problem understanding what members like Wasted are saying.

And? I have, and many of other posters have too. There's a fine line between your genuine opinion and a crazy nonsensical rambling. Wasted always does the latter, and while it shouldn't be a ban-worthy offense, moderation on this forum should request the spam shitposters to make sense. Simple as that.

If any poster were clogging up threads with novel-sized posts, then yes, we would do something about it. We do have an ignore feature which we encourage everyone to use if they find the style and substance of a particular poster to be unbearable.

[alfierose]

This morning in the interest of taking complaints seriously I went through and read the last 20 posts or so made by Wasted and whilst his style is an acquired taste I can't say that any were totally nonsensical. We can continue to keep an eye out but If you really find them that unbearable then as downzy said use the ignore button.

[Dazey]

They are nonsensical. I have it on ignore for just that reason.

[DieselDaisy]

He is fairly harmless though, Wasted. He just likes to get stoned and listen to Chinese democracy a bit too much.

Just forget I said the above!

Edited December 3, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

Again, we make every effort to moderate behaviour, not opinions.

Time to change that rule when the opinion is solely based on nonsense and crazy paranoia. No forum would allow the likes of wasted running around and posting stuff only he understands. That's called spam, and spam is a violation of the ToS in 99.9% of the forums out there.

What's considered nonsensical or not is more of a relative proposition. Moreover, I've never had a problem understanding what members like Wasted are saying.

And? I have, and many of other posters have too. There's a fine line between your genuine opinion and a crazy nonsensical rambling. Wasted always does the latter, and while it shouldn't be a ban-worthy offense, moderation on this forum should request the spam shitposters to make sense. Simple as that.

I have to defend wasted now. He has his idiosyncractic posting style but I can almost always extract some sense from them, and there is even gnostic wisdom to be had. Taking the time to decipher his posts is usually worth the effort, at least I know I won't find any offensive or abrasive comments. This forum would be better with more like him and less like those that are only here to be negative and disruptive.

[Nosaj Thing]

He is fairly harmless though, Wasted.

Sure. Like I said, it's not that he should be banned just because he's a massive spam shitposter. I was just addressing the fact that requesting to make sense when they post would be better when considering the overall 'experience' of the entire forum.

If any poster were clogging up threads with novel-sized posts, then yes, we would do something about it. We do have an ignore feature which we encourage everyone to use if they find the style and substance of a particular poster to be unbearable.

Quality of discussion is what I was addressing. It's not just about me.

[maynard]

What I find it really interesting is that, if I post that CD2 will have Jimmy Page on drums and post a completely made-up tracklist, post will most likely be hidden. If wasted does it, nothing happens, actually, Mr. Dude will quote him with more non-sense and they'll quote each other endlessly with pure non-sense. It's harmless, sure, but it's fun how this completely insane individual got a free pass to post random words in a forum. It's kinda fun I guess? All I know is that when I open mygnr in the morning and I see wasted as the last poster in all of them, I don't even bother to enter said threads. I know I'm not the only one.

So that's what bothers me. Entering a thread and it getting completely hijacked by spam-posters like wasted and Rovim. I know the band is dead and there's nothing to talk about so I can't complain much. Spam gets annoying now and then, that's it.

[SoulMonster]

Quality of discussion is what I was addressing. It's not just about me.

I completely agree with you that quality of discussion should be of concern to the mods but I just don't think quality in itself is a subject for moderation. Breaking of rules, yes, that should be moderated; irregular posting styles and off-beat opinions, no, not really. Moderating those would be sort of like discriminating against those less able to get their points across or those less eloquent And we don't want that kind of elitism here, do we?

I guess we will just have to accept that not everyone can aspire to your levels of sophisticated discussions about the current state of GN'R. You have a way of geting your point across in very few oft repeated words. So let's just put on ignore those whose posts we can't handle.

[Nosaj Thing]

Mr. Dude

I think that's a bit different because he's clearly not serious about what he's saying. Russ is intelligent enough and have realized that more than once.

What I find it really interesting is that, if I post that CD2 will have Jimmy Page on drums and post a completely made-up tracklist, post will most likely be hidden. If wasted does it, nothing happens

It could be because you're mocking a spam shitposter without being a spam shitposter. 100% highly effective moderation right there!

The thing with wasted is, I firmly believe he's serious, unlike, as I already pointed out, Mr. Dude. That's why I have one on ignore and not the other.

[SoulMonster]

Mr. Dude

I think that's a bit different because he's clearly not serious about what he's saying. Russ is intelligent enough and have realized that more than once.

How is not being serious about "sprouting nonsense" (not that I think they do) be a mitigating factor? That sounds like deliberate spamming to me...

[Len Cnut]

Wasted is fantastic and hilairious and non-sequitorial (that ain't even a fuckin' word!) and pissing around with words and bunging little bits of a song in there or a bit of film dialogue, he just comes across as a cynical piss-taker, i got a lot of time for Wasted, i think he's one of the best posters on here. No, he doesn't always 'say' something but Christ almighty, this ain't Prime Ministers Question Time. They make perfect sense, he's just taking the mickey. Quite frankly a lot of people don't always post 100 billion percent relevant clear statements on forums, just mildly related observations.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Len B'stard

[kogun]

2 cents from a newbie: nosaj's posts are infinitely more annoying than wasted's. at least, wasted isn't spamming all the reunion threads with "not happening" idiotic posts.

Edited November 15, 2015 by kogun