Dr. Dre: "I didn't release Detox because I didn't like it. It wasn't good." Should Axl have treated CD similarly?

[wasted]

Kush was Dre's Oh My God.

Jimmy decided to go with different urban beats that year.

This new Compton soundtrack IS detox.

Unfortunately Dre just said Detox sucked.

Maybe Axl will donate CD II to Canter's Reckless Road movie.

[Jordan Rose]

There's a lot of good stuff on Chinese Democracy. It has some throwaway songs for sure, but so did Use Your Illusion.

Throw away songs

Chinese Democracy - SOD, TWAT, If the World, Catcher in the Rye, Scraped, Riad N' the Bedouins, Sorry, IRS, This I Love, Madagascar - 9

UYI I & II - Dust N' Bones, You Ain't The First, Bad Obsession, Bad Apple, Garden of Eden / Get in the Ring, Shotgun Blues, Pretty Tied Up, So Fine, My World - 10 or 13 if you include one version of Don't Cry and the two covers

Jesus Christ. You consider Twat throwaway but not the title track?!

Chinese is my favourite record of all time and the new songs (since 2001) are my most played ever. So no, Axl should not have shelved it and I hope there are at least two more records with songs as good as the Chinese tracks. If Bucket hadn't left and Axl had gotten the record out in 2004 after debuting new songs at Rio 4 you wouldn't be comparing CD to Detox.

[Bono]

There's a lot of good stuff on Chinese Democracy. It has some throwaway songs for sure, but so did Use Your Illusion.

Throw away songs

Chinese Democracy - SOD, TWAT, If the World, Catcher in the Rye, Scraped, Riad N' the Bedouins, Sorry, IRS, This I Love, Madagascar - 9

UYI I & II - Dust N' Bones, You Ain't The First, Bad Obsession, Bad Apple, Garden of Eden / Get in the Ring, Shotgun Blues, Pretty Tied Up, So Fine, My World - 10 or 13 if you include one version of Don't Cry and the two covers

Jesus Christ. You consider Twat throwaway but not the title track?!

Chinese is my favourite record of all time and the new songs (since 2001) are my most played ever. So no, Axl should not have shelved it and I hope there are at least two more records with songs as good as the Chinese tracks. If Bucket hadn't left and Axl had gotten the record out in 2004 after debuting new songs at Rio 4 you wouldn't be comparing CD to Detox.

TWAT is probably the most overrated song ever by GnR fans in my opinion. There's nothing special about it and please don't come back with the "amazing" guitar solo by Bucket or the "amazing" screams by Axl. A few screams and a forgettable guitar solo don't make a great song. the lyrics are meh, the melody is meh, the music is meh. At least CD rocks a little.

As for CD being your favourite album of all time................ Yikes. To each their own, thank god.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Bono

[prettytiedup88]

The thing is, CD was good enough to be released. I don't care what Axl says, it was finished, the problem lies with timing. He wanted to produce the best rock record of modern times, this turned out to be impossible due to tastes and the style of rock music changing so quickly. It is still a problem and IMO, the reason there are very few rock albums made that will stand the test of time the way albums of the 60's-early 00's have. Tastes and styles change so quickly these days, that there is no time to fully appreciate an album and for it to become a classic.

CD is a pretty enjoyable album in its own right. When compared to other rock music around the time of its release, or indeed GNR's back catalogue, its so different that it feels less than adequate, when in fact, that's not the case. As a standalone album, judged on its own merits, its an interesting release with some really great moments.

Edited August 3, 2015 by prettytiedup88

[wasted]

I find it hard to not think 12 out of 14 CD songs are completely awesome. Then I listen to Scraped and Riad are awesome too. So I have no way to think CD isnt great.

The thing that sticks out is the difference in production track to track. I feel like the first 7 tracks are smooth, as good as any opening 7 tracks on a GNR cd.

Theres a bit of distortion from Scraped and Sorry, which sound like off another album, then Riad sandwiched between them, then back on schedule with IRS, and it is smooth to the end of the album. Epic after epic until the finale.

It all holds together like a classic album, reminds me of the emotional twists of Exile on Main Street.

For me, Scraped and Riad are just more tasteful than Get in the Ring and Shotgun Blues. The latter annoy less people production wise but they are sonically generic and display the kind of ignorance that gets old. But true to life there comes a time for every mood or style.

Theres no covers on CD. No "experiments" or Alt lyric versions. It's just wall to wall solid rock songs. Different styles but mainly this omninous theme that just gets growing as the album mounts to the last three or four ott tracks.

If you dont have a problem with the styles and production then it's 14 great GNR tracks.

[themadcaplaughs]

Maybe Dre needs Axl to come in and add some CD-style production.

Mystery solved. Dre and Axl have been negotiating over Pittman to come in and add some sub-bass to Detox. Record cannot be completed until it has Pittman's magical sub-bass

[Free Bird]

I find it hard to not think 12 out of 14 CD songs are completely awesome. Then I listen to Scraped and Riad are awesome too. So I have no way to think CD isnt great.

The thing that sticks out is the difference in production track to track. I feel like the first 7 tracks are smooth, as good as any opening 7 tracks on a GNR cd.

Theres a bit of distortion from Scraped and Sorry, which sound like off another album, then Riad sandwiched between them, then back on schedule with IRS, and it is smooth to the end of the album. Epic after epic until the finale.

It all holds together like a classic album, reminds me of the emotional twists of Exile on Main Street.

For me, Scraped and Riad are just more tasteful than Get in the Ring and Shotgun Blues. The latter annoy less people production wise but they are sonically generic and display the kind of ignorance that gets old. But true to life there comes a time for every mood or style.

Theres no covers on CD. No "experiments" or Alt lyric versions. It's just wall to wall solid rock songs. Different styles but mainly this omninous theme that just gets growing as the album mounts to the last three or four ott tracks.

If you dont have a problem with the styles and production then it's 14 great GNR tracks.

To me it's the complete opposite.

2 great songs on CD. Other 3 enjoyable tunes. The rest is garbage. Including SOD, Cather and Prostitute.

[TeeJay410]

This new Compton soundtrack IS detox.

That's sort of the idea I'm getting at. It doesn't matter if Axl thinks the album is good or not, and maybe titled the thread with that was a mistake on my part. My main hypothetical is that would Axl have been better off burying the concept of CD like Dre did with Detox and releasing an album not called Chinese democracy. I feel like Dre's new album will be reviewed much more fairly because he removed the notion that it has something to live up to after all these years.

[nambis]

Kush was Dre's Oh My God.

Jimmy decided to go with different urban beats that year.

This new Compton soundtrack IS detox.

Unfortunately Dre just said Detox sucked.

Maybe Axl will donate CD II to Canter's Reckless Road movie.

of course he said that, he's killing the hype and expectations which is brilliant. But anyone that's been following that record knows that all these songs were from those sessions.

This new Compton soundtrack IS detox.

That's sort of the idea I'm getting at. It doesn't matter if Axl thinks the album is good or not, and maybe titled the thread with that was a mistake on my part. My main hypothetical is that would Axl have been better off burying the concept of CD like Dre did with Detox and releasing an album not called Chinese democracy. I feel like Dre's new album will be reviewed much more fairly because he removed the notion that it has something to live up to after all these years.

Yep, dre knows what he's doing. The guy is a fucking music mogul.

[arnold layne]

Dre is overrated anyway.

[GN'R Forever]

Na. CD is an amazing album and I'm glad I got it.

[Fernando]

Me too.

[TeeJay410]

Na. CD is an amazing album and I'm glad I got it.

The actually quality of the music isn't necessarily relevant. My notion is that Axl may have been better off burying Chinese Democracy, and releasing a "new" album thus giving it a shot to be taken more seriously and fairly. That's what Dre seems to have done with Detox.

And as a matter of disclosure, I more or less liked CD. The album is pretty much what all the reviews said and what it's sales reflect. It is a good but not quite great rock album. Unfortunately under the expectations it was facing, fair or unfair, good isn't good enough for many folks.

Edited August 4, 2015 by TeeJay410

[Silent Jay]

But Axl played six Chinese songs live before it came out, plus OMG and SW. It's half of the album.

[TeeJay410]

Dre officially released 3 songs if I count correctly, 2 as direct singles from detox, Kush and I Need A Doctor which both had videos. He performed I need a Doctor at the Grammy's. One song ended up as a T.I. Song, and no telling how many others have ended up Kendrick Lamar songs or Game or Eminem etc etc songs. Supposedly much of Em's relapse was Detox but Dre gave it to Em for his come back. There also was to be a huge single with Jay-Z that appeared in a commercial but it got pulled (much like the better commercial with Harley Davidson, actually). Plus countless leaks.

All this is to the point that Dre was committed to detox, perhaps not as maniacally so as Axl but he put enough of it out there that the expectation was there, and it was huge. It takes courage, and frankly the sort of standing and respect of being Dr. Dre to turn around and say "nevermind" in the face of all those efforts. Or more cynically, a savvy business mind to recognize that Detox would never be what it was built up to be, and to shelve the project and potentially release the same material under a new name and context.

[Nosaj Thing]

Axl should have released Chinese Democracy before 2002, without the overloaded amount of unnecessary crap added years later. Also, he should have worked in his horrid lyrics.

[dario27]

Dre is normal and well adjusted, hence why he could step away and say it sucked. Axl was too obsessed with his vision for GNR and his confidence in himself carrying the name to do the same.

LOL, i can't help but laugh every time i read "Axl's vision of GN'R".....

what agreat vision he had!

[chevelle]

Dre is normal and well adjusted, hence why he could step away and say it sucked. Axl was too obsessed with his vision for GNR and his confidence in himself carrying the name to do the same.

LOL, i can't help but laugh every time i read "Axl's vision of GN'R".....

what agreat vision he had!

Should've put quotes around it, lol. Though it did seem like at one point he did want to do something with the band, explore different kinds of music, make a name for GNR apart from the old line up...but that obviously all fell apart in flames.

[Janis]

I don't think it has fallen apart in flames. The last few years he has been successfully touring. People are still buying tickets to Gnr shows. He did a great show in Dublin arena when I saw him couple of years ago. Regarding new music yes of course that has stalled unfortunately but I think if he gets back into it he can still write a great album. The general public or rock music audience still love Axl. When Axl went on Kimmel there was nothing but positive praise on twitter from people being surprised he's actually a nice guy and has a sense of humour about himself! Same with the revolver rewards-they not only gave him a huge award but the audience loved him when he walked up to receive it. More people or rooting for him than not. Alot if the negativity towards Axl stopped years ago except for the late starts of course!

[Sleep]

Other artists have done the same thing before. Trent Reznor, Maynard James Keenan, Danny Lohner and Josh Freese did an album together under the name of Tapeworm but in the end Trent said it wasn't up to expectations so it'll never be released.

[Len Cnut]

There are no musical geniuses that take more that 12 months of solid work to produce an album. More time than that indicates a lack of inspiration, a lack of competence and a piecemeal haphazard approach and/or the money and finance to take your time...and it's usually people in those kinds of positions that live the attendant lives those positions afford you, that are desperately lacking inspiration. And thats what i think it's about in these kindsa situations.

Perfectionist? Please. A perfectionist works singlemindedly to A particular goal, he doesn't make 20 versions of the same song with a lot of periphery laid over it and then has trouble picking from the bunch...or picking at all, thats called being indesicive and lacking belief in the value and strength of your own work. A perfectionist sees a song in a certain way and works and works and works towards that.

Remember these are works pop music, we're not talking about the fucking ring cycle here.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Mr. Dude]

Dre is kind of like the opposite of Axl. Dre got too corporate to release to the public. Axl got too real to release a record to the corporation.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Mr. Dude

[wkuk04]

There was so much anticipation before the release..it became a joke to lots of Internet folk, I was personally waiting since about 2000 I was 15/16 and just getting into rock music when I bought Appetite, Illusions and jumped on the Internet to read up what the band was doing at that point and I was surprised that it imploded and in the UK I picked up Classic Rock Magazine every now and again and sometimes articles on the bands glory days would be in there and the album Chinese Democracy interested me during the bands 2002 tour and I personally believe Axl got the best of his replacement players and made the best album he could without the help from the likes of Izzy, Slash & Duff. How do you replace Slash's iconic Guns guitar sound, by getting a faster and more technical player not necessarily a better player but somebody who only needs a half a dozen seconds to capture a riff and blow your mind like the buildup to the bridge in Better and countless other solos & riffs, due to the changes in the bands dynamics and a more progressive sound Finck & Bucket ruled on CD, they contemplated it perfectly. I just hope we get to hear what remains from the CD sessions and personally it should overrule anything Bumble & Ashba recorded.

I'm just glad we got an album.

[Dijon]

So much money had been poured into making that album; he had to put it out at some point. I would say some songs are great like, "This I love", and "There was a time". However other songs just feel like something they put on there because they had nothing better, after all those years you would think that would not be the case.

[arnold layne]

I would say some songs are great like, "This I love".