ShadowOfTheWave Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today.Say what you want about Kiss, but they have dozens of good songs some of them are really good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfTheWave Posted September 7, 2015 Author Share Posted September 7, 2015 People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today.Say what you want about Kiss, but they have dozens of good songs some of them are really good Yes, they have many good songs. My point is that they are a "classic" band that didn't make classic music, their enduring popularity is directly connected to their image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarBradley Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today.Say what you want about Kiss, but they have dozens of good songs some of them are really good Without realizing it, I think you sort of confirmed OP's assertion. Kiss has some good songs, and some really good songs. Overall, they're not that great of a band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I read somewhere that their thing was glam early on but one time they ran into the New York Dolls and were like OK, we'll never do glam like that, so they went the alternate route of making themselves look like...whatever the fuck they ended up looking like 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarBradley Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I read somewhere that their thing was glam early on but one time they ran into the New York Dolls and were like OK, we'll never do glam like that, so they went the alternate route of making themselves look like...whatever the fuck they ended up looking like Buncha tools tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Can't the same be said about every band/artist? Especially the ones with a sort of gimmick? Image is everything. It's what helps you stand out. From the androgyny of Bowie to the horror-like Alice Cooper to the straight out weirdness of Marilyn Manson to the masks of Slipknot. Hell, why not pile the bunch of punks from the LA gutter called Guns n' Roses on there. Image is always a part of it. It's what people remember you for. Especially at first. No famous band in history would be who they are without their image. Edited September 7, 2015 by username 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Can't the same be said about every band/artist? Especially the ones with a sort of gimmick? Image is everything. It's what helps you stand out. From the androgyny of Bowie to the horror-like Alice Cooper to the straight out weirdness of Marilyn Manson to the masks of Slipknot. Hell, why not pile the bunch of punks from the LA gutter called Guns n' Roses on there. Image is always a part of it. It's what people remember you for. Especially at first. No famous band in history would be who they are without their image. I think whats being said is its image without substance i.e. lose the image and there's fuck all there, the same cannot be said for David Bowie and i believe GnR too.But basically i agree with your point, image is a lot, a helluva lot. I think Marc Bolan said 'rock n roll is a bitch and you've got to come on like a bitch, i mean you cant be real, im not the boy next door, i never was, thats why Im successful, i dont wannabe the boy next door and they dont want me to be the boy next door. In fact on that stage I'm at liberty, I'm in a realm of fantasy, i can do whatever i wanna do and get away with it'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 They had to have the songs to back up the schtick, but they tried to go for a larger than life approach back in the clubs and all the things that led to making them famous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 KISS has the songs to at least have been a pretty big band. However, it was escalated due to their imagery and stage show, of course. Where would Slipknot be without the masks though? Where would Ghost be if it wete just some normal dudes playing their music? If you come up with a good image, something new that shocks people, you're gonna get a boost for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlsMainMan Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Lick it Up is a pretty dope tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think they still would have made it without the gimmick but it would have been a longer process. People can say what they want about Paul and Gene but they worked really hard to make sure KISS was known. Nobody can take their work ethic away from them. Gene is more business than music which is a shame because he's a talented bass player whereas Paul was music first but still smart about business. The make-up and stage show escalated their success and they smartly capitalized on that by releasing Alive - a repackaged version of the best songs from their first three albums. Like others have said, KISS at least does have some great music behind it all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 T Rex above Bowie and everyone else kickstarted glam. Gene talks a lot of shit, even Paul wrote in his book that KISS hires people to do marketing for them and all he and Gene do is just approve or deny the ideas. Tommy Thayer's involved in it.Doc McGhee was the one who made the KISS reunion happen and helped Axl deal with Irving Azoff and some of the tour stuff, but Fernando would have to be the one to get into what was going on as far as GNR goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Kiss is something today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today.Are you saying Gene is 'average' looking? Granted I'm a heterosexual male but I have seen scrotums more aesthetically pleasing than Gene's face - as witnessed in perfectly straight porn of course! Edited September 8, 2015 by DieselDaisy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Broue Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today.Listen to their early demos, they were a real talented band in the beginningBut they learnt how the music business works and went to the commerical routeOf course they are all horrible human beings and assholes, but who caresAxl Rose is an asshole tooThat's allyou just butthurt for something, i guess People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today.Say what you want about Kiss, but they have dozens of good songs some of them are really good Yes, they have many good songs. My point is that they are a "classic" band that didn't make classic music, their enduring popularity is directly connected to their image.Check the Live at the Daisy bootleg, Ace even says that people should join their mailing list (in 1973!)They worked hard to become "something"Can't the same be said about every band/artist? Especially the ones with a sort of gimmick? Image is everything. It's what helps you stand out. From the androgyny of Bowie to the horror-like Alice Cooper to the straight out weirdness of Marilyn Manson to the masks of Slipknot. Hell, why not pile the bunch of punks from the LA gutter called Guns n' Roses on there. Image is always a part of it. It's what people remember you for. Especially at first. No famous band in history would be who they are without their image. Exactly thisMight as well close this thread hereKiss is something today?yeah, a nostalgia act like GNR, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Rolling Stones etc etc.Rock is dead for Pitchfork media people i guess that is why you're asking this question, because you don't have an opinion on your own Edited September 8, 2015 by Strange Broue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today.Say what you want about Kiss, but they have dozens of good songs some of them are really good Yes, they have many good songs. My point is that they are a "classic" band that didn't make classic music, their enduring popularity is directly connected to their image.i dont know what you mean by classic musici dont know if kiss doesnt play on the classic rock radio where you livewhere i live, kiss plays on classic rock radiokiss is played on every party where there is rock musicand kiss is considered to be classic rockif by classic you mean music that stands (so far at least) the test of time, then kiss has a lot of classic stuffmany bands did the gimmick image thing and went nowherebecause they didnt have the songsif kiss didnt have good songs, they would be nothing todayif they didnt have good songs, they would have lasted a month, a year, maybe twoit would be something like- oh do you remember those guys from the 70s who had a great makeup?- yeah, they were great- what was their name again?- kiss, right?- yeah- remember that guy who spit blood?- yeah, the one with the huge tongue!- fuck, that was awesome- yeah- too bad their music sucked- yeah===on the same subject, i dont know if you know about the la hair metal scene in the 80sone can say that nearly all the bands from that scene had a lot of concern for the imageand, in most cases, they had little concern for the musicwhat happened? very few of these bands actually are remembered these daystheir songs are not played much anywherewhy?because they are not that goodare there good songs from those bands?yeahbut if you take like 10 bands from that scene, you will have a hard time finding 20 good songsthe one band from that era that really stood the test of time and really went waaaaay beyond the la hair band niche was also the band that had the best songson their first album alone, they had 12 great songsyou could be mine, november rain, dont cry, aint going down were fuckin outtakesi can bet you all guys the la hair bands would give their right nut to have written a song like you could be mineyou can live off of a song like that for your whole life 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludurigan Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 i mean you cant be real, im not the boy next door, i never was, thats why Im successful, i dont wannabe the boy next door and they dont want me to be the boy next door. In fact on that stage I'm at liberty, I'm in a realm of fantasy, i can do whatever i wanna do and get away with it'.you should see the legendary jani lane (rip) interview where he says he entered the record company building and he saw an alice in chains poster instead of a warrant poster and he couldnt understand how those guys that looked like beggars could be promoted by their record company instead of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today.Have only read this post in this thread, but besides their obviously impressive live show and the iconic makeup they did have a lot of killer tunes to back it up.The first few albums in particular are pretty chock full of kick ass rock and roll songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I dont know I listen to the first two records and they sound pretty good. But they may just have a cute appeal now but they were trying to be heavy. Destoyer is actually awesome. I think its accepted that Alive was a better representation of what the band were about. Just a big spectacle. So image and live show was how they got fans on board. There was no devestating debut album or anything mind blowing musically. But for middle america it was probably about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Destoyer is actually awesome.As much as I love Alive, I always thought Destroyer was the proof Kiss was actually a good band. It's a great hard rock album. You can't hear make up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Not sure which album King of the Night Time World is on but that kicks ass. In fact the make up and Gene ruin the band in a way. I remember hearing Crazy Crazy Nights on radio Luxenberg and thinking it was decent but then I saw pics of them and couldnt buy an album. I kind understand who they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfTheWave Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 People bitch that KISS is just a brand now, but it always was. Kiss became famous for their live show, and their makeup. It's their image that's sustained their popularity for decades, not their fucking music. Do you really think "Rock N Roll All Nite" and "Beth" would be considered all time classics today if they were recorded by the average looking rock band?And yes, I realize their popularity lasted throughout the 80s without makeup, because they already had a successful name, built off their image. If they looked in 1974 like they did in 1983, they would be nothing today.Say what you want about Kiss, but they have dozens of good songs some of them are really good Yes, they have many good songs. My point is that they are a "classic" band that didn't make classic music, their enduring popularity is directly connected to their image.i dont know what you mean by classic musici dont know if kiss doesnt play on the classic rock radio where you livewhere i live, kiss plays on classic rock radiokiss is played on every party where there is rock musicand kiss is considered to be classic rockif by classic you mean music that stands (so far at least) the test of time, then kiss has a lot of classic stuffmany bands did the gimmick image thing and went nowherebecause they didnt have the songsif kiss didnt have good songs, they would be nothing todayif they didnt have good songs, they would have lasted a month, a year, maybe twoit would be something like- oh do you remember those guys from the 70s who had a great makeup?- yeah, they were great- what was their name again?- kiss, right?- yeah- remember that guy who spit blood?- yeah, the one with the huge tongue!- fuck, that was awesome- yeah- too bad their music sucked- yeah===on the same subject, i dont know if you know about the la hair metal scene in the 80sone can say that nearly all the bands from that scene had a lot of concern for the imageand, in most cases, they had little concern for the musicwhat happened? very few of these bands actually are remembered these daystheir songs are not played much anywherewhy?because they are not that goodare there good songs from those bands?yeahbut if you take like 10 bands from that scene, you will have a hard time finding 20 good songsthe one band from that era that really stood the test of time and really went waaaaay beyond the la hair band niche was also the band that had the best songson their first album alone, they had 12 great songsyou could be mine, november rain, dont cry, aint going down were fuckin outtakesi can bet you all guys the la hair bands would give their right nut to have written a song like you could be mineyou can live off of a song like that for your whole lifeTheir music is played on classic rock radio and has "stood the test of time" because of their image. My point is that they did not make classic rock music like the other bands of the time, Van Halen, Black Sabbath, Zeppelin ect. They aren't worthy of classic status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Kiss is something today?yeah, a nostalgia act like GNR, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Rolling Stones etc etc. Rock is dead for Pitchfork media people i guess that is why you're asking this question, because you don't have an opinion on your own Fuck off with that. My not liking Kiss has nothing to do with Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, MTV or any other music review outlet. It has everything to do with me simply hearing their music, seeing their shit gimmick and coming to my own conclusion that they're a trash band for trash people. Secondly, rock is not dead, not even for hipsters. Shitrock is dead. There's a major difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Bullet Boys are not dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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