Jump to content

What if album had suprise release ?


Recommended Posts

LMAO as of 2011, there were 1 million still stocked from the 1.6 million deal with Best Buy that is included in the original 2.6 million figure. This market was not on the verge. This is only 1 of several major markets that certified through shipping.

You seem to think the number should have risen. The clear reason it has not is because you can't count the same album twice. That's elementary.

No new certifications have come in the major markets that were originally reported in '09. I was lazy and took your word on the other countries you listed and even with that, there is still no basis that over 3 million were sold. There is actually no basis that even half of that were sold.

I agree that the sales figures in the US has probably not passed 2.6 millions :D But it is clearly possible that by 2009 the sales could have been on the verge of tipping into a new Certification for other markets. We can't just dismiss this because we happen to know that it wasn't the case for USA ;)

Of course the sales number can have risen, in fact it would be absurd to think they haven't.

Again, how do you know that no new certifications have come since 2009?

You have a funny hang-up with the distinction between shipped and sale, when it comes to certifications. Let's look at Australia. We know that CD shipped to Gold in that country in 2009. That means that in 2009, between 35 and 70k units have been shipped to retailers. This doesn't really say anything about what the sale was back in 2009 (or today!), and this is why I think the extrapolation method might be valuable for trying to calculate actual sales numbers. Still, it is entirely possible that the sales numbers in Australia was 69k in 2009, or somewhat lower, resulting in a new shipment post-2009, leading to sales over 70k. Again, my list of certiications were from 2009. If you have an updated list please let me know. But as it is, with only data from 2009, my point remains that your numbers will be highly conservative due to the numbers being old, will only be based on a subset of teh global market, and be too low because you only looked at the theoretical minimum (like as if you had some agenda, or sumthin').

Edited by SoulMonster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LMAO as of 2011, there were 1 million still stocked from the 1.6 million deal with Best Buy that is included in the original 2.6 million figure. This market was not on the verge. This is only 1 of several major markets that certified through shipping.

You seem to think the number should have risen. The clear reason it has not is because you can't count the same album twice. That's elementary.

No new certifications have come in the major markets that were originally reported in '09. I was lazy and took your word on the other countries you listed and even with that, there is still no basis that over 3 million were sold. There is actually no basis that even half of that were sold.

I agree that the sales figures in the US has probably not passed 2.6 millions :D But it is clearly possible that by 2009 the sales could have been on the verge of tipping into a new Certification for other markets. We can't just dismiss this because we happen to know that it wasn't the case for USA ;)

Of course the sales number can have risen, in fact it would be absurd to think they haven't.

Again, how do you know that no new certifications have come since 2009?

You have a funny hang-up with the distinction between shipped and sale, when it comes to certifications. Let's look at Australia. We know that CD shipped to Gold in that country in 2009. That means that in 2009, between 35 and 70k units have been shipped to retailers. This doesn't really say anything about what the sale was back in 2009 (or today!), and this is why I think the extrapolation method might be valuable for trying to calculate actual sales numbers. Still, it is entirely possible that the sales numbers in Australia was 69k in 2009, or somewhat lower, resulting in a new shipment post-2009, leading to sales over 70k. Again, my list of certiications were from 2009. If you have an updated list please let me know. But as it is, with only data from 2009, my point remains that your numbers will be highly conservative due to the numbers being old, will only be based on a subset of teh global market, and be too low because you only looked at the theoretical minimum (like as if you had some agenda, or sumthin').

I think you don't even know the situation you're trying to discuss. 2.6 million covered the major global markets. It wasn't a USA figure. That's a pathetic angle.

Still, I think you're intentionally being obtuse.

You can claim whatever you want. PROVE IT!

I got something else for ya. Hang on....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...3.5-4Million still not bad for a group of hired hands. Best Buy spent $14,000,000 on 1.6 million units of CD, consider that and what it has sold and with studio time paid for its not a bad chunk of change, it will eventually outsell TSI.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LMAO as of 2011, there were 1 million still stocked from the 1.6 million deal with Best Buy that is included in the original 2.6 million figure. This market was not on the verge. This is only 1 of several major markets that certified through shipping.

You seem to think the number should have risen. The clear reason it has not is because you can't count the same album twice. That's elementary.

No new certifications have come in the major markets that were originally reported in '09. I was lazy and took your word on the other countries you listed and even with that, there is still no basis that over 3 million were sold. There is actually no basis that even half of that were sold.

I agree that the sales figures in the US has probably not passed 2.6 millions :D But it is clearly possible that by 2009 the sales could have been on the verge of tipping into a new Certification for other markets. We can't just dismiss this because we happen to know that it wasn't the case for USA ;)

Of course the sales number can have risen, in fact it would be absurd to think they haven't.

Again, how do you know that no new certifications have come since 2009?

You have a funny hang-up with the distinction between shipped and sale, when it comes to certifications. Let's look at Australia. We know that CD shipped to Gold in that country in 2009. That means that in 2009, between 35 and 70k units have been shipped to retailers. This doesn't really say anything about what the sale was back in 2009 (or today!), and this is why I think the extrapolation method might be valuable for trying to calculate actual sales numbers. Still, it is entirely possible that the sales numbers in Australia was 69k in 2009, or somewhat lower, resulting in a new shipment post-2009, leading to sales over 70k. Again, my list of certiications were from 2009. If you have an updated list please let me know. But as it is, with only data from 2009, my point remains that your numbers will be highly conservative due to the numbers being old, will only be based on a subset of teh global market, and be too low because you only looked at the theoretical minimum (like as if you had some agenda, or sumthin').

I think you don't even know the situation you're trying to discuss. 2.6 million covered the major global markets. It wasn't a USA figure. That's a pathetic angle.

Still, I think you're intentionally being obtuse.

You can claim whatever you want. PROVE IT!

What do you want me to prove? That your way of calculating the sales based on the minimal threshold of a certification will lead to too small numbers? I think it is self-evident. That by only looking at figures for some countries and not the entire market, you are again getting too low numbers? I think that is self-evident, too. Or that by looking at numbers from 2009 (whether sales or shipment numbers), you are disregarding the fact that these numbers may have increased since then, and again ending up in numbers lower than the actual numbers. Again, it is self-evident.

As for the alternative way of calculating the sales based on extrapolation from actual sales numbers, I think I have been pretty accurate with the inherent weaknesses of such a method :shrugs:.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...3.5-4Million still not bad for a group of hired hands. Best Buy spent $14,000,000 on 1.6 million units of CD, consider that and what it has sold and with studio time paid for its not a bad chunk of change, it will eventually outsell TSI.

Yep, not bad for a group of hired hands using the massively popular brand name Guns n' Roses. Not bad. But no, it didn't sell 3,5-4 million.

Edited by maynard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...3.5-4Million still not bad for a group of hired hands. Best Buy spent $14,000,000 on 1.6 million units of CD, consider that and what it has sold and with studio time paid for its not a bad chunk of change, it will eventually outsell TSI.

Yep, not bad for a group of hired hands using the massively popular brand name Guns n' Roses. Not bad. But no, it didn't sell 3,5-4 million.
It's not far off as estimations go. Those people would know who's in the band or not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...3.5-4Million still not bad for a group of hired hands. Best Buy spent $14,000,000 on 1.6 million units of CD, consider that and what it has sold and with studio time paid for its not a bad chunk of change, it will eventually outsell TSI.

Yep, not bad for a group of hired hands using the massively popular brand name Guns n' Roses. Not bad. But no, it didn't sell 3,5-4 million.
It's not far off as estimations go.

If we extrapolate form the actual sales figures in the UK in 2014, we end up with 5.7 mill sold in North America and Europe :shrugs:.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...3.5-4Million still not bad for a group of hired hands. Best Buy spent $14,000,000 on 1.6 million units of CD, consider that and what it has sold and with studio time paid for its not a bad chunk of change, it will eventually outsell TSI.

Yep, not bad for a group of hired hands using the massively popular brand name Guns n' Roses. Not bad. But no, it didn't sell 3,5-4 million.
It's not far off as estimations go.

If we extrapolate form the actual sales figures in the UK in 2014, we end up with 5.7 mill sold in North America and Europe :shrugs:.
Don't tell the guys that you'll never live it down.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...3.5-4Million still not bad for a group of hired hands. Best Buy spent $14,000,000 on 1.6 million units of CD, consider that and what it has sold and with studio time paid for its not a bad chunk of change, it will eventually outsell TSI.

Yep, not bad for a group of hired hands using the massively popular brand name Guns n' Roses. Not bad. But no, it didn't sell 3,5-4 million.
It's not far off as estimations go.
If we extrapolate form the actual sales figures in the UK in 2014, we end up with 5.7 mill sold in North America and Europe :shrugs:.
Don't tell the guys that you'll never live it down.

It's a fact. But of course it is an extrapolation and as such comes with certain uncertainties. If I took USA as an example and extrapolated form the actual sales numbers in 2011, the estimated sales for North America and Europe in 2011 is 2.4 millions. Of course, people in the UK may buy more records than other countries in North America and Europe, or just like GN'R more, hence skewing the extrapolation and resulting ina too high number, or Americans may buy less, or like GN'R less, resulting in an under-estimation. If so, an average of these numbers, 4.0 mllions, would be more accurate. But again, the US contribution to this average is from as early as 2011, and we are only extrapolating to North America and Europe, completely missing the sales in other regions of the world, suggesting that the estimation is grossly too low.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LMAO as of 2011, there were 1 million still stocked from the 1.6 million deal with Best Buy that is included in the original 2.6 million figure. This market was not on the verge. This is only 1 of several major markets that certified through shipping.

You seem to think the number should have risen. The clear reason it has not is because you can't count the same album twice. That's elementary.

No new certifications have come in the major markets that were originally reported in '09. I was lazy and took your word on the other countries you listed and even with that, there is still no basis that over 3 million were sold. There is actually no basis that even half of that were sold.

I agree that the sales figures in the US has probably not passed 2.6 millions :D But it is clearly possible that by 2009 the sales could have been on the verge of tipping into a new Certification for other markets. We can't just dismiss this because we happen to know that it wasn't the case for USA ;)

Of course the sales number can have risen, in fact it would be absurd to think they haven't.

Again, how do you know that no new certifications have come since 2009?

You have a funny hang-up with the distinction between shipped and sale, when it comes to certifications. Let's look at Australia. We know that CD shipped to Gold in that country in 2009. That means that in 2009, between 35 and 70k units have been shipped to retailers. This doesn't really say anything about what the sale was back in 2009 (or today!), and this is why I think the extrapolation method might be valuable for trying to calculate actual sales numbers. Still, it is entirely possible that the sales numbers in Australia was 69k in 2009, or somewhat lower, resulting in a new shipment post-2009, leading to sales over 70k. Again, my list of certiications were from 2009. If you have an updated list please let me know. But as it is, with only data from 2009, my point remains that your numbers will be highly conservative due to the numbers being old, will only be based on a subset of teh global market, and be too low because you only looked at the theoretical minimum (like as if you had some agenda, or sumthin').

I think you don't even know the situation you're trying to discuss. 2.6 million covered the major global markets. It wasn't a USA figure. That's a pathetic angle.

Still, I think you're intentionally being obtuse.

You can claim whatever you want. PROVE IT!

What do you want me to prove? That your way of calculating the sales based on the minimal threshold of a certification will lead to too small numbers? I think it is self-evident. That by only looking at figures for some countries and not the entire market, you are again getting too low numbers? I think that is self-evident, too. Or that by looking at numbers from 2009 (whether sales or shipment numbers), you are disregarding the fact that these numbers may have increased since then, and again ending up in numbers lower than the actual numbers. Again, it is self-evident.

As for the alternative way of calculating the sales based on extrapolation from actual sales numbers, I think I have been pretty accurate with the inherent weaknesses of such a method :shrugs:.

Is it even intentional at this point? You don't even know what the discussion is. Using the shipped count plus every single country you listed brings it to 3 million at best. I already included the global market a LONG time ago. There was nothing selective.

Your method is bullshit.

You can't count leftover shipped albums(that were already counted in the original reports) into new sales numbers.

The fact remains that we will never know the exact number but we do know for a fact that 3 million albums are not confirmed as sold. If you want to claim otherwise, prove it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LMAO as of 2011, there were 1 million still stocked from the 1.6 million deal with Best Buy that is included in the original 2.6 million figure. This market was not on the verge. This is only 1 of several major markets that certified through shipping.

You seem to think the number should have risen. The clear reason it has not is because you can't count the same album twice. That's elementary.

No new certifications have come in the major markets that were originally reported in '09. I was lazy and took your word on the other countries you listed and even with that, there is still no basis that over 3 million were sold. There is actually no basis that even half of that were sold.

I agree that the sales figures in the US has probably not passed 2.6 millions :D But it is clearly possible that by 2009 the sales could have been on the verge of tipping into a new Certification for other markets. We can't just dismiss this because we happen to know that it wasn't the case for USA ;)

Of course the sales number can have risen, in fact it would be absurd to think they haven't.

Again, how do you know that no new certifications have come since 2009?

You have a funny hang-up with the distinction between shipped and sale, when it comes to certifications. Let's look at Australia. We know that CD shipped to Gold in that country in 2009. That means that in 2009, between 35 and 70k units have been shipped to retailers. This doesn't really say anything about what the sale was back in 2009 (or today!), and this is why I think the extrapolation method might be valuable for trying to calculate actual sales numbers. Still, it is entirely possible that the sales numbers in Australia was 69k in 2009, or somewhat lower, resulting in a new shipment post-2009, leading to sales over 70k. Again, my list of certiications were from 2009. If you have an updated list please let me know. But as it is, with only data from 2009, my point remains that your numbers will be highly conservative due to the numbers being old, will only be based on a subset of teh global market, and be too low because you only looked at the theoretical minimum (like as if you had some agenda, or sumthin').

I think you don't even know the situation you're trying to discuss. 2.6 million covered the major global markets. It wasn't a USA figure. That's a pathetic angle.

Still, I think you're intentionally being obtuse.

You can claim whatever you want. PROVE IT!

What do you want me to prove? That your way of calculating the sales based on the minimal threshold of a certification will lead to too small numbers? I think it is self-evident. That by only looking at figures for some countries and not the entire market, you are again getting too low numbers? I think that is self-evident, too. Or that by looking at numbers from 2009 (whether sales or shipment numbers), you are disregarding the fact that these numbers may have increased since then, and again ending up in numbers lower than the actual numbers. Again, it is self-evident.

As for the alternative way of calculating the sales based on extrapolation from actual sales numbers, I think I have been pretty accurate with the inherent weaknesses of such a method :shrugs:.

Is it even intentional at this point? You don't even know what the discussion is. Using the shipped count plus every single country you listed brings it to 3 million at best. I already included the global market a LONG time ago. There was nothing selective.

Your method is bullshit.

You can't count leftover shipped albums(that were already counted in the original reports) into new sales numbers.

The fact remains that we will never know the exact number but we do know for a fact that 3 million albums are not confirmed as sold. If you want to claim otherwise, prove it.

But again, those 3 millions are based on data from 2009. And again, you used the absolute lowest theoretical numbers. And the data doesn't cover the whole global market :D

What do you mean with "included the global market". Do you have any recent global market data? If so, what are we discussing? :D I thought you were doing the painstaking job of looking at avalable data for certifications, and then summing the numbers to get an estimation of what the total sales is.

I have never claimed that 3 millions albums have been confirmed as sold (!). The whole point of this exercise is the fact that we DON'T have recent global sales data, so we use two methods to estimate them: 1. Looking at certifications, like you have done. 2. Extrapolating form actual sales data in smaller markets, like I have done. Both of these methods have inherent weaknesses, I am pointing out the weaknesses of your method since you failed to do so yourself.

Edited by SoulMonster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Test:

How many can you guarantee were sold?

I can't be bothered to go through the list and determine how many of the certifications were based on actual sales and not shipments, and then summarizing them to find that number. My point is still that that number would be based on data from 2009 and based on too few countries, and hence be grossly underrepresenting the actual number now in 2015.

He's a fool arguing for the sake of it. Classic trolling.

I am afraid not. I am pointing out glaring weaknesses in your method of calculating sales numbers, weakness that were probably obvious to everyone but which you still failed to mention. What this means is that whatever number you arrived at will be significantly lower than the actual sales number now in 2015.

Edited by SoulMonster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've told you the number of how many were by shipment and sales. Laziness is your excuse as to why you're arguing about something you have no chance at winning? Now I'm starting to really question the validity of your earlier claims. :lol:

I'll make it simple for you:

1: 2.6 million were not sold by 2009. Fact

2: There is no evidence of additional certifications on top of those reported markets. Fact

3: With all of the additional potential crap you piled up, you still do not arrive at even half of the early '09 report as confirmed sold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's funny is that won't make it higher. They were already considered SOLD.

Is that right? Oh, that's too bad. Now the delusional people have no way to improve the sales numbers. :(

it didn't sell 3,5-4 million.

3-3.5 million. Never four.

Yep... If CD sold that much, I can only wonder how well GH has been doing, it must have sold dozens of millions by now.

Delusion starts right after 3.5 million.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've told you the number of how many were by shipment and sales. Laziness is your excuse as to why you're arguing about something you have no chance at winning? Now I'm starting to really question the validity of your earlier claims. :lol:

I'll make it simple for you:

1: 2.6 million were not sold by 2009. Fact

2: There is no evidence of additional certifications on top of those reported markets. Fact

3: With all of the additional potential crap you piled up, you still do not arrive at even half of the early '09 report as confirmed sold.

1. According to Universal Music, 2.6 millions were indeed SOLD by February 2009. Anyway, I am curious about what source you have that negates the data from Universal Music and how not having sold 2.6 millions by 2009 will tell us much about actual sales by 2015.

2. Are you saying there is no evidence for CD selling enough to lift it into new certifications beyond those it has reached in 2009? Heh. That's a really weird argument to make. It is entirely possible that new certifications have happened, just that such numbers don't usually get disclosed years after a record's release unless someone does the hard work of contacing each country's certification agency (or whatever it is called), and asking for updated statuses.

3. What?

Edited by SoulMonster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've told you the number of how many were by shipment and sales. Laziness is your excuse as to why you're arguing about something you have no chance at winning? Now I'm starting to really question the validity of your earlier claims. :lol:

I'll make it simple for you:

1: 2.6 million were not sold by 2009. Fact

2: There is no evidence of additional certifications on top of those reported markets. Fact

3: With all of the additional potential crap you piled up, you still do not arrive at even half of the early '09 report as confirmed sold.

1. According to Universal Music, 2.6 millions were indeed SOLD by February 2009. Anyway, I am curious about what source you have that negates the data from Universal Music and how not having sold 2.6 millions by 2009 will tell us much about actual sales by 2015.

2. Are you saying there is no evidence for CD selling enough to lift it into new certifications beyond those it has reached in 2009? Heh. That's a really weird argument to make. It is entirely possible that new certifications have happened, just that such numbers don't usually get disclosed years after a record's release unless someone does the hard work of contacing each country's certification agency (or whatever it is called), and asking for updated statuses.

3. What?

Sounds good to me. How can six years of sales from 2009-2015 not be considered, its laughable.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've told you the number of how many were by shipment and sales. Laziness is your excuse as to why you're arguing about something you have no chance at winning? Now I'm starting to really question the validity of your earlier claims. :lol:

I'll make it simple for you:

1: 2.6 million were not sold by 2009. Fact

2: There is no evidence of additional certifications on top of those reported markets. Fact

3: With all of the additional potential crap you piled up, you still do not arrive at even half of the early '09 report as confirmed sold.

1. According to Universal Music, 2.6 millions were indeed SOLD by February 2009. Anyway, I am curious about what source you have that negates the data from Universal Music and how not having sold 2.6 millions by 2009 will tell us much about actual sales by 2015.

2. Are you saying there is no evidence for CD selling enough to lift it into new certifications beyond those it has reached in 2009? Heh. That's a really weird argument to make. It is entirely possible that new certifications have happened, just that such numbers don't usually get disclosed years after a record's release unless someone does the hard work of contacing each country's certification agency (or whatever it is called), and asking for updated statuses.

In additon, you are outright wrong. From the 2009 list we read that CD reached Gold status in the UK. This measn that by then it had shipped between 100k and 300k units. But since then we have received updated sales results: by 2014 it had sold 366k units, pushing it into the Platinum category (!). So, the record HAS sold since 2009, and for at least one region this has resulted in it reaching a new certification.

3. What?

1: Absolutely incorrect. We know that as of 2011, 1 million from Best Buy were not sold and they were included in the original report. Adjust the numbers.

2: Prove that new certifications have happened. It's easy to find if it's there. Otherwise, give up the bullshit. You wont find it because no new certifications have been added regarding the early report.

For your addition, you're lying. It shipped Platinum to the UK. Even in '09 they gave it a platinum status. And again, you are still ignoring that they certify on shipped versus actually sold.

3: Figure it out if you aren't still lazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...