How much has CD sold as of 2015?

[Free Bird]

Whatever you say dude

[Strange Broue]

lolmonster

[SoulMonster]

lolmonster

Another one to whom Fermi is a stranger?

[wasted]

You can probably half AFD sales due to the tape to cd switch over. I bought it on tape then when RQ got all mashed up in my ghetto blaster because the sex noises derailed the spools I bought a copy on cd. Then another because I Iost it. And another because on holiday I saw it on offer.

UYI I had the tapes but I lost them in the great pissing in my box of cds when drunk in 96 incident. But I only bought UYI I in second hand store. And I got II as weird chinese bootleg.

CD. Ive got the bootleg of leaks, a fake copy and CD version I bought in south east asia. But I burned a copy of my personal tracklisting I like to play wvery worning.

Lies I had a tape but no cd. Spag inc a cd that I bought in the sales.

Smakepit I got a tape of that. Ju ju hounds i paid 17.99 in hmv about a year after in came out.

[jmapelian]

Here's some real numbers with sources

Best Buy purchased 1.3 million copies of the album from UMG upfront before release, with a pledge not to return any excess copies.^[138] The album was initially released November 22, 2008, in Germany,^[139]Switzerland,^[140] and Austria.^[141] It was released on November 23, 2008, worldwide, except in the United Kingdom, where it was released on November 24, 2008.^[142]Chinese Democracy debuted at number three on the US Billboard 200 chart, selling 261,000 copies in its first week, well below expectations.^{[143][144][145][146]} The album also debuted at #2 on the UK Albums Chart.^[147] Second Week sales dropped significantly in the United States, dropping from no. 3 to no. 18 on the Billboard chart, a 78 percent drop.^[148] After selling 21,000 copies it's sixth week charting at no. 30, the album was certified Gold by the RIAA, passing the 500,000 shipped mark on January 7, 2009.^[149]Chinese Democracy was certified Platinum by the RIAA on February 3, 2009, having shipped one million copies in the United States.^[150][151] The album placed 55th on the 2009 Billboard 200 Year End charts.^[152]

The album secured an IFPI European Platinum Award, having sold more than one million copies in Europe,^[153][154] and had sold 2.6 million units worldwide as of February 2009, according to Universal Music.^[151]The album also reached triple platinum certification in Canada, as well as platinum certifications in many other countries, including Finland, the Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Poland, Romania, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Argentina, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.^[155] It was certified gold in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Greece, Hungary, the Netherlands, Sweden, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Brazil, and Colombia.^[155] After Best Buy clearanced the album for $2 in April 2011, it re-entered the US Billboard 200 again in the week ending April 3, 2011, selling 3,200 copies, enough for the 198th position. At that date, the album had sold 614,000 copies in the US according to Nielsen Soundscan.^[156] In the UK, it has sold 365,899 copies as of July 2014.^[157]

So basically, Best Buy still has shit loads of the album.

[SoulMonster]

Here's some real numbers with sources

Best Buy purchased 1.3 million copies of the album from UMG upfront before release, with a pledge not to return any excess copies.^[138] The album was initially released November 22, 2008, in Germany,^[139]Switzerland,^[140] and Austria.^[141] It was released on November 23, 2008, worldwide, except in the United Kingdom, where it was released on November 24, 2008.^[142]Chinese Democracy debuted at number three on the US Billboard 200 chart, selling 261,000 copies in its first week, well below expectations.^{[143][144][145][146]} The album also debuted at #2 on the UK Albums Chart.^[147] Second Week sales dropped significantly in the United States, dropping from no. 3 to no. 18 on the Billboard chart, a 78 percent drop.^[148] After selling 21,000 copies it's sixth week charting at no. 30, the album was certified Gold by the RIAA, passing the 500,000 shipped mark on January 7, 2009.^[149]Chinese Democracy was certified Platinum by the RIAA on February 3, 2009, having shipped one million copies in the United States.^[150][151] The album placed 55th on the 2009 Billboard 200 Year End charts.^[152]

The album secured an IFPI European Platinum Award, having sold more than one million copies in Europe,^[153][154] and had sold 2.6 million units worldwide as of February 2009, according to Universal Music.^[151]The album also reached triple platinum certification in Canada, as well as platinum certifications in many other countries, including Finland, the Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Poland, Romania, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Argentina, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa.^[155] It was certified gold in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Greece, Hungary, the Netherlands, Sweden, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Brazil, and Colombia.^[155] After Best Buy clearanced the album for $2 in April 2011, it re-entered the US Billboard 200 again in the week ending April 3, 2011, selling 3,200 copies, enough for the 198th position. At that date, the album had sold 614,000 copies in the US according to Nielsen Soundscan.^[156] In the UK, it has sold 365,899 copies as of July 2014.^[157]

So basically, Best Buy still has shit loads of the album.

Definitely. They bought 1.3 million up-front and the total number of sold units in USA per 2015 is only about 720k.

As far as I can tell, if anyone has lost on CD it is Best Buy.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Rovim said:

What are you talking about? seriously? it didn't even reach that number being sold on dollar tree. How else are we supposed to know it sold 4 to 5 million copies like you said it did, if you can't prove it, or anyone else for that matter, cause again: it never happened in reality?

Just because you want to think it maybe sold more since 2009, and not just more but 1 to 2 million copies more, that doesn't make it any less impossible to seriously accept without proof. Especially when we know the demand for it when it was just released came and went and it sold about 3 million copies. (like Bumble has said it did)

I don't want to derail this thread but please stop pulling shit from your ass and presenting it like some sort of a fact. It's misleading.

Since @Rovim has a problem with finding this thread I will help him out.

- Why are you talking about Dollar Tree, a US phenomenon, in a discussion about global sales per 2015?

- I am not asking you to know anything, because there is no way any of us can know the actual global sales figures of CD. They simply don't exist. They are unavailable. So we are left with the only option of having to make assumptions on what they are. You can believe my assumptions based on actual sales figures for US and UK extrapolated to the rest of the world based on gold certifications in 2009, or believe the assumption that it only sold 3 millions based on shipped and sold data released in selected markets in 2009. You choice, but don't give me the crap that my argument is weaker because I have no solid proof. None of us have. What we have is stronger or weaker argumemnts.  If you think my assumptions are flawed in some way, fine, have a go at it but don't present it as if I pull stuff out of my ass. There is a method to the (apparent) madness.

- I don't want to think anything. It is pure statistics and mathematics. I was surprised by the numbers myself.

[DR DOOM]

Get a hobby.

[Edward Nygma]

If it hasn't sold over 7 Million to 11 Million copies worldwide I'll be very surprised. Just a realistic estimate from a huge CD fan waiting for the next album...NOT A HATER OF CHINESE DEMOCRACY & a person who thinks logically & realistic... 

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Since @Rovim has a problem with finding this thread I will help him out.

- Why are you talking about Dollar Tree, a US phenomenon, in a discussion about global sales per 2015?

- I am not asking you to know anything, because there is no way any of us can know the actual global sales figures of CD. They simply don't exist. They are unavailable. So we are left with the only option of having to make assumptions on what they are. You can believe my assumptions based on actual sales figures for US and UK extrapolated to the rest of the world based on gold certifications in 2009, or believe the assumption that it only sold 3 millions based on shipped and sold data released in selected markets in 2009. You choice, but don't give me the crap that my argument is weaker because I have no solid proof. None of us have. What we have is stronger or weaker argumemnts.  If you think my assumptions are flawed in some way, fine, have a go at it but don't present it as if I pull stuff out of my ass. There is a method to the (apparent) madness.

- I don't want to think anything. It is pure statistics and mathematics. I was surprised by the numbers myself.

Alright. I'll just pick a number I like and can feel proud of as a new Guns fan. Between the months of June and September of 2012, did you know Chinese sold an additional 20 million copies in Canada alone?

So what if members of the band estimated it at 3, and no one other than you has said anything about 4 to 5 million copies (guessed!)

Rusty pulled all the numbers for you to accept but alas, it was hopeless. It's shit that's pulled from an ass as long as you can't prove it sold more than what we know it did (3 million copies) with the help of dollar tree it did not have a spike suddenly of 1 to 2 million copies lol.

It's just about trying to excuse the fact it wasn't a smash hit. If it sold 5 million copies, my guess is someone from the band or just anyone would have revealed it, but just a guess.

Chinese was no Greatest Hits. I don't understand why it's so hard for you to accept it didn't do much past the 3 million copies mark.

[SoulMonster]

18 minutes ago, DR DOOM said:

Oh fucking hell, how many bajillion copies did Chinese Democracy sell this week Soul?

That horse has been dead for like 8 years now mate, it flopped.

Deal with it.

@DR DOOM: Whether it sold 3, 4, 5 or 6 millions is pretty irrelevant for whether it failed on its expectations or not. It did. Someone lost a lot of money. Hah. But I don't care. My argument is NOT that it was a commercial success, or a failure - I couldn't care less about that -- but try to lay the discussion about how much it actually sold, to rest, once and for all. I do care about people knowing what they talk about and I do care about facts, though. Fact is it has sold 1 million copies in 2015 in USA and UK. We know this. Then it is just a matter of figuring out what percentage of global sales those two markets comprise...50 %? If so it has sold 2 million by 2015. 33 %? If so it has sold 3 millions by 2015? 25 %? If so it has sold 4 millions by 2015. And so on. If we look at how much it sold in various markets by 2009, by looking at gold and platinum certifications, though, then we arrive at 4 to 6 millions by 2015. I am not arguing it is a perfect method, it was serious weaknesses, but I do think it is the best numbers we have.

 

17 minutes ago, DR DOOM said:

Get a hobby.

What I don't get is the hostility. Why is this such a provocation to people?

Edited May 24, 2016 by SoulMonster

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Rovim said:

Alright. I'll just pick a number I like and can feel proud of as a new Guns fan. Between the months of June and September of 2012, did you know Chinese sold an additional 20 million copies in Canada alone?

So what if members of the band estimated it at 3, and no one other than you has said anything about 4 to 5 million copies (guessed!)

Rusty pulled all the numbers for you to accept but alas, it was hopeless. It's shit that's pulled from an ass as long as you can't prove it sold more than what we know it did (3 million copies) with the help of dollar tree it did not have a spike suddenly of 1 to 2 million copies lol.

It's just about trying to excuse the fact it wasn't a smash hit. If it sold 5 million copies, my guess is someone from the band or just anyone would have revealed it, but just a guess.

Chinese was no Greatest Hits. I don't understand why it's so hard for you to accept it didn't do much past the 3 million copies mark.

- No one here is picking any random numbers. Read my firstg post again. The only numbers used are actual, real sales numbers for US and UK combined with actual, real sales (and shipped) numbers for selected gold and platinum markets by the end of 2009. Have you not read the firstg post or do you simply not understand it?

- Not even members of the band has access to actual global sales data, because they don't exist. They have to rely upon various assumptions and methods, too.

- If I remember correctly, Rusty completely misunderstood the method and talked abotu other things.

- Again, Dollar Tree is a US phenomenon. I am talking about global sales. The actual 2015 sales number for US is "less than 750,000".

[DR DOOM]

It's not hostility 

[Rovim]

16 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

- No one here is picking any random numbers. Read my firstg post again. The only numbers used are actual, real sales numbers for US and UK combined with actual, real sales (and shipped) numbers for selected gold and platinum markets by the end of 2009. Have you not read the firstg post or do you simply not understand it?

- Not even members of the band has access to actual global sales data, because they don't exist. They have to rely upon various assumptions and methods, too.

- If I remember correctly, Rusty completely misunderstood the method and talked abotu other things.

- Again, Dollar Tree is a US phenomenon. I am talking about global sales. The actual 2015 sales number for US is "less than 750,000".

Yeah I've read it. I understand it. What you say is still silly. Bumble said around 3 million copies, no other way of knowing exactly how much more it sold. Globally.

So now we argue about 4 to 5 million copies. Who came up with that number, and why 4 to 5 million? if we have no way of knowing past 3 million, how can you know it didn't sell VERY POORLY for example?

Cause an additional 1 to 2 million copies since 2009 is sensational. Truly unbelievable, when you consider the lack of interest, globally, the lack of interest for years now.

Can you really disagree with what I'm saying here? it's not selling like hot cakes since 2009! this will be required to sell an additional 1 to 2 million copies. You are basing your argument on your personal wish that is comfortable to live with as a fan perhaps. This will be my last post about this shit. I'd take Bumble's word for it over your extrapolations and official numbers. Any data that is not available can't be replaced with silly guesses like 5 million copies globally.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Rovim

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

Yeah I read it. I understand it. What you say is still silly. Bumble said around 3 million copies, no other way of knowing exactly how much more it sold. Globally.

So now we argue about 4 to 5 million copies. Who came up with that number, and why 4 to 5 million? if we have no way of knowing past 3 million, how can you know it didn't sell VERY POORLY for example?

Cause an additional 1 to 2 million copies since 2009 is sensational. Truly unbelievable, when you consider the lack of interest, globally, the lack of interest for years now.

Can you really disagree with what I'm saying here? it's not selling like hot cakes since 2009! this will be required to sell 1 to 2 million copies. You are basing your argument on your personal wish that is comfortable to live with as a fan perhaps. This will be my last post about this shit. I'd take Bumble's word for it over your extrapolations and official numbers. But any data that is not available can't be replaced with silly guesses like 5 million copies globally.

Again, this is not about knowing. And yeah, there are other ways of figuring this out than trusting Bumble who, like us, is left with no actual official numbers to use

Who came up with 4-6 millions? Well, here's a hint: Read the first post you claim to have both read and understood

We don't have any way of knowing past 1 million, really. All the rest is assumptions, good or bad. We know it sold rather well in USA from 2009 to 2015, because we have data for these two time points. This can largely by explained by the band promoting CD in that country through more or less constant touring. But even if we account for that, we end up at the lower range of my estimate, e.g. 4 millions sold globally.

We don't know it had sold 3 millions globally by 2009. That in itself is an assumption based on shipped and sold data for selected markets at various dates in 2009. The only real, actual numbers we have, is for US and UK in 2015, and they total 1 million sold. That is the better starting point for any guesstimates. Then we have to figure out what percentage of total global sales is comprised by UK and USA (10 % or 90 % or something inbetween?). That is why I believe my method is much better than whatever Rusty and others have presented. It actually is based on real sales numbers that are current and not from various time points in 2009 with the assumption of almost no sales after 2009.

10 minutes ago, DR DOOM said:

It's not hostility 

Seems to be a lot of it in this thread. It even resulted in a suspension.

[RussTCB]

35 minutes ago, DR DOOM said:

Get a hobby.

So much this.

[DR DOOM]

I dunno man, I haven't been keeping up with it- I just opened this thread up and saw you still trying to make out CD sold shitloads or comparative shitloads which we all know just isn't true.

Like I said, that horse died years ago.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DR DOOM said:

I dunno man, I haven't been keeping up with it- I just opened this thread up and saw you still trying to make out CD sold shitloads or comparative shitloads which we all know just isn't true.

Like I said, that horse died years ago.

My argument is that it sold between 4 and 6 millions, and not 3 millions. Shouldn't be THAT controversial, should it? But this thread, and any mention that it sold more than 3 millions anywhere, is like poking at an exposed nerve of some members. Inadvertantly highly entertaining.

No, as long as people keep spreading the unsubstantiated bullshit that it sold 3 millions, then that horse is so very much alive and kicking.

[Rovim]

14 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Again, this is not about knowing. And yeah, there are other ways of figuring this out than trusting Bumble who, like us, is left with no actual official numbers to use

Who came up with 4-6 millions? Well, here's a hint: Read the first post you claim to have both read and understood

We don't have any way of knowing past 1 million, really. All the rest is assumptions, good or bad. We know it sold rather well in USA from 2009 to 2015, because we have data for these two time points. This can largely by explained by the band promoting CD in that country through more or less constant touring. But even if we account for that, we end up at the lower range of my estimate, e.g. 4 millions sold globally.

We don't know it had sold 3 millions globally by 2009. That in itself is an assumption based on shipped and sold data for selected markets at various dates in 2009. The only real, actual numbers we have, is for US and UK in 2015, and they total 1 million sold. That is the better starting point for any guesstimates. Then we have to figure out what percentage of total global sales is comprised by UK and USA (10 % or 90 % or something inbetween?). That is why I believe my method is much better than whatever Rusty and others have presented. It actually is based on real sales numbers that are current and not from various time points in 2009 with the assumption of almost no sales after 2009.

What? it sold 4 to 6 millions now? I know Bumble estimated it at 3 million. Why would I think it sold 5 to 6 million copies globally, if there is no way of proving it sold more then the available numbers?

Truthfully now, I think we just don't know exactly what it sold, but a then member of the band has given us his estimation for how much it sold. A fan asked a band member and he said about 3 millions which is good.

You claim it might have, might have sold 6 million copies! that's double than what a band member thinks it sold, with no indication of new found interest in the album except maybe like one country.

I was lying though. I did not read it, I apologize. Sometimes I just don't care in the middle of your posts when it's tedious cause you won't accept CD did not sell (not shipped btw lol) 4 or 5 or 6 million copies. It was probably closer to what Bumble said it sold.

If you have any proof, if you can add the global numbers, then we'll actually know. But don't go around presenting 5 million copies actually sold and paint a very nice picture made of lies.

It just wasn't the case. Everyone that wanted to hear it, Guns fans have heard it via myspace, leaks, and most of the sales were made in the first 2 years of Chinese. 6 million copies my ass. Sorry, that's just very far from the ride this album has been through and how Best Buy got rid of it and how there was nothing about Chinese selling an additional 1 to 2 million copies since 2009. Nothing.

All we hear about is how much of a hit Greatest Hits was, and still selling, How it was a bust for Best Buy, and the Dollar Tree thing in the states. It sold well in England that one time though. That's at least an additional 2 million easy.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Rovim

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Rovim said:

What? it's 4 to 6 millions now? I know Bumble estimated it at 3 million. Why would I think it sold 5 to 6 million copies globally, if there is no way of proving it sold more then the available numbers?

Truthfully now, I think we just don't know exactly what it sold, but a then member of the band has given us his estimation for how much it sold. A fan asked a band member and he said about 3 millions which is good.

You claim it might have, might have sold 6 million copies! that's double than what a band member thinks it sold, with no indication of new found interest in the album except maybe like one country.

I was lying though. I did not read it, I apologize. Sometimes I just don't care in the middle of your posts when it's tedious cause you won't accept CD did not sell (not shipped btw lol) 4 or 5 or 6 million copies. It was probably closer to what Bumble said it sold.

If you have any proof, if you can add all the numbers, then we'll actually know. But don't go around presenting 5 million copies actually sold and paint a very nice picture made of lies.

It just wasn't the case. Everyone that wanted to hear it, Guns fans have heard it via myspace, leaks, and most of the sales were made in the first 2 years of Chinese. 6 million copies my ass. Sorry, that's just very far from the ride this album has been through and how Best Buy got rid of it and how there was nothing about Chinese selling an additional 1 to 2 million copies since 2009. Nothing.

All we hear about is how much of a hit Greatest Hits was, and still selling, How it was a bust for Best Buy, and the Dollar Tree thing in the states. It sold well in England that one time though. That's at least an additional 2 million easy.

We are going in circles.

- There is no way of proving how much it has sold. You can either embrace this by saying you have no idea, or believe something. The reason why you should believe 4-6 millions is because you accept that the method used to arrive at that range is better than other methdos used. If you prefer to trust people who use shipped and sold date for various dates in 2009 with almost no sale after that, fine. If you prefer to trust Bumble's guess, fine. It's all good. Just make a rational decision. I would argue that my method is more accurate

- I would prefer if you stopped lying to me, it makes it hard to trust anything you say in the future and I dislike having to repeat myself over and over because you don't have the basic courtesy to even read what I am talking about. And on that revelation: Do you have a source for Bumble's comment on 3 millions?

- I haven't presented "a nice picture made of lies". What does that even mean? I have been very forthright with how the 4-6 million range is arrived at, and any inherent weaknesses of the method. There are no lies....from me.

- Again, we don't know what the actual sales numbers were for the end of 2009. What we have is incomplete sales and shipped date for various dates in 2009 and for various markets. Your argument that it can't have sold an additional 1-2 million since then is invalid, I have never claimed it did.

[Rovim]

16 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

We are going in circles.

- There is no way of proving how much it has sold. You can either embrace this by saying you have no idea, or believe something. The reason why you should believe 4-6 millions is because you accept that the method used to arrive at that range is better than other methdos used. If you prefer to trust people who use shipped and sold date for various dates in 2009 with almost no sale after that, fine. If you prefer to trust Bumble's guess, fine. It's all good. Just make a rational decision. I would argue that my method is more accurate

- I would prefer if you stopped lying to me, it makes it hard to trust anything you say in the future and I dislike having to repeat myself over and over because you don't have the basic courtesy to even read what I am talking about. And on that revelation: Do you have a source for Bumble's comment on 3 millions?

- I haven't presented "a nice picture made of lies". What does that even mean? I have been very forthright with how the 4-6 million range is arrived at, and any inherent weaknesses of the method. There are no lies....from me.

- Again, we don't know what the actual sales numbers were for the end of 2009. What we have is incomplete sales and shipped date for various dates in 2009 and for various markets. Your argument that it can't have sold an additional 1-2 million since then is invalid, I have never claimed it did.

Truth is your guess is as good as mine. We both don't know exactly how much it sold. Difference is, I don't use "methods". I use what I know. Next time you say 6 million copies it will be nice if you'll understand that it's just a guess, not a factual number.

And you can bet your ass Bumble said that. I don't have what it takes to find the source now, but I will find it later. As for lying, I'm brutally honest most of the time but my method is reading only selected parts of your posts and highlights when it gets too silly. Sometimes it's not even me who's reading your jokes, it's my beloved cat Sandy.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Rovim

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Rovim said:

Truth is your guess is as good as mine. We both don't know exactly how much it sold. Difference is, I don't use "methods". I use what I know. Next time you say 6 million copies it will be nice if you'll understand that it's just a guess, not a factual number.

You can bet your ass Bumble said that. I don't have what it takes to find the source now, but I will find it later. As for lying, I'm brutally honest most of the time but my method is reading just some of your posts when it gets too silly.

Well, except the fact that my guesstimate stems from real numbers and fair assumptions whereas your guess stems from nothing really except the backfire effect and myside bias.

The 3 million units sold claim that so many people believe, is based on nothing but summing the number sold and shipped at various timepoints in 2009. As such, it only tells us how many units were at least shipped in late 2009. And a lot of those numbers came from early 2009. That's all. That's all they tell us. We barely have proper sales figures by the end of 2009 for any isolated market. Using such numbers as representating the total global sales by 2015 is bound to be highly inaccurate. Not only because there has been significant sales since early 2009, but also because shipped and sold is two different things. It makes little sense to embrace those numbers even if they are the only numbers available to us. But since people came up with that 3 million number (or 2,8 million to be exact) we have gotten actual, current sales numbers (not shipped!) for the important markets USA and UK. Yet people, for various reasons, cling to that inaccurate and flawed 3 million number. It makes no sense, and as such, since we deal with humans, it makes perfect sense. People choose what to believe and refuse to admit being wrong. And some even lie about it.

[Rovim]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Well, except the fact that my guesstimate stems from real numbers and fair assumptions whereas your guess stems from nothing really except the backfire effect and myside bias.

The 3 million units sold claim that so many people believe, is based on nothing but summing the number sold and shipped at various timepoints in 2009. As such, it only tells us how many units were at least shipped in late 2009. And a lot of those numbers came from early 2009. That's all. That's all they tell us. We barely have proper sales figures by the end of 2009 for any isolated market. Using such numbers as representating the total global sales by 2015 is bound to be highly inaccurate. Not only because there has been significant sales since early 2009, but also because shipped and sold is two different things. It makes little sense to embrace those numbers even if they are the only numbers available to us. But since people came up with that 3 million number (or 2,8 million to be exact) we have gotten actual, current sales numbers (not shipped!) for the important markets USA and UK. Yet people, for various reasons, cling to that inaccurate and flawed 3 million number. It makes no sense, and as such, since we deal with humans, it makes perfect sense. People choose what to believe and refuse to admit being wrong. And some even lie about it.

The irony. Choose to believe yeah. Exactly. Significant as fuck. 1 to 2 more million copies since 2009. More or less. I hope it continues to sell like it did since 2009 so it can beat Thriller in sales soon.

[WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself]

(moved from the other thread)

There are two figures. The first is the total certified sold units and the other the claimed sales.

Usually the second one is much higher than the first.

For example see The Beatles:

" Total available certified units: 269.4 million "

" Claimed sales: 600 million "

or Appetite for Destruction:

21.3  / 30 m.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

Edited May 24, 2016 by WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

The irony. Choose to believe yeah. Exactly. Significant as fuck. 1 to 2 more million copies since 2009. More or less. I hope it continues to sell like it did since 2009 so it can beat Thriller in sales soon.

Again, the argument that it must have sold 1-2 more millions since 2009 is based on accepting the estimate that it had sold, globally, 3 millions by 2009. I am afraid that argument is flawed. We don't know what it had sold by the end of 2009, we only know what shipped and sold certifications it reached in select markets throughout 2009. A much better approach for you, if you want to seriously contest the 4-6 million number, is to say that USA and UK (with 1 million in total verified sales) comprise more than 33 % of the global market. That would give an upper estimate of 3 million in total global sales