How much has CD sold as of 2015?

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself said:

(moved from the other thead)

There are two figures. The first is the total certified sold units and the other the claimed sales.

Usually the second one is much higher than the first.

For example see The Beatles:

" Total available certified units: 269.4 million "

" Claimed sales: 600 million "

or Appetite for Destruction:

21.3  / 30 m.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

Someone told Duff in a video interview a few years ago Guns sold 100 mill records. He clearly did not believe it and asked "are you sure?" or something like that. He said people throw that number around but he doesn't know if they actually sold that many albums.

I think we can call that method Soulmonster figures now.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Rovim

[Mr. Dude]

3 hours ago, Rovim said:

Yeah I've read it. I understand it. What you say is still silly. Bumble said around 3 million copies, no other way of knowing exactly how much more it sold. Globally.

So now we argue about 4 to 5 million copies. Who came up with that number, and why 4 to 5 million? if we have no way of knowing past 3 million, how can you know it didn't sell VERY POORLY for example?

Cause an additional 1 to 2 million copies since 2009 is sensational. Truly unbelievable, when you consider the lack of interest, globally, the lack of interest for years now.

Can you really disagree with what I'm saying here? it's not selling like hot cakes since 2009! this will be required to sell an additional 1 to 2 million copies. You are basing your argument on your personal wish that is comfortable to live with as a fan perhaps. This will be my last post about this shit. I'd take Bumble's word for it over your extrapolations and official numbers. Any data that is not available can't be replaced with silly guesses like 5 million copies globally.

I agree. 5 million is a silly low guess. I think at least 7 mil by this point is a good, reasonable guess.

[sonofnazareth]

1 copy, purchased by Slash in 2008.

[Sprite]

Arguing over a 1-2 million sales over the course of 8 years. Oh boy. Record sales debates are the musical equivalent of the cuckold category in pornography. If you write out pornography it doesn't seem as dirty so I'm hoping this isn't inappropriate. People really need others to buy it to satisfy themselves? Whatever makes you feel good.

Any of those numbers in the digital age of music is good. You had no promotion but that was also met equally with more curiosity than your typical album, even if the genre was on life support from a pop culture standpoint. You see but that is the thing with Axl. That is what makes it a perfect guns n roses album. It had all the attitude of the man pissed at the world like in Appetite, but it went internal. Like the anger shifted from them to me. That shows evolution as a person to me. And it had that desperation that every guns album seems to have. Just too much elephant noises and sub bass for some.

When CD was released I remember it came in at #3 behind a Kanye and T. Swift album. I just looked them up to compare. Looks like Kanye's 808's has sold just under 2 million to date. And Taylor Swift's was 7 million to date. So no, Chinese didn't do bad at all either way. 

 

 

[SoulMonster]

While reading IFPI's "Global Music Report" for 2015 I came across some interesting, although irrelevant, stats. Guess how many records Adele sold in 2015 (digital and physical)? 17.4 million. Bloody hell. That's a lot of record regardless of which year we talk about. The seconds on the list are Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift, both with 3.5 million. The report lists another 7 artists all with sales over 1 million units in 2015. Streaming is excluded. So it is still possible to sell records, even in today's landscape of music streaming.

It is being argued that record sales are dropping. Well, physical record sales have been dropping but digital record sales have picked up, and since 2010 the combined sales between the two have been pretty stable. At the same time performance right and synchronization rights have increased meaning that the record industry is not in free fall at all. At least not any longer. They seem to have adjusted to the new reality.

[Len Cnut]

Who gives a flying fuck, it's a bag of shite and you all know it, the real bands sort of back together now, Fagba and Shitman are gone, look to the future kids, there's the off chance you might hear 'some decent fuckin' music at last!'.

[The Archer]

I purchased 14 copies and gave them away for free to friends and family.

Edit: I kept one for myself, obviously.

Edited May 25, 2016 by The Archer

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

I'm not sure about anything But, I don't think Chinese sold 5-6million copies, maybe it did? It has definitely sold a few more copies since the 2009 stats were released, but I don't think we're talking 2-3 million more copies. I think it's fair to say 3-4 million... unless there's facts to suggest otherwise, not just opinion... unless that's the opinion of Axl, the label or band management.

Hi @Tom2112. There are no "2009 stats". What we have is certifications published at various dates in 2009, for shipped or sold. We simply have no idea how many copies were sold by the end of 2009. It could have been 2.8 millions, which is the number you arrive at if you add up the certifications, but it is bound to be more since some of these are from earlier dates that year and more sales must have taken place. It could have been 3.3 millions. It could have been 3.8 millions. We simply don't know. Then comes the muddling fact that those 2.8 millions are comprised of shipped and sold. 

Again, what we actually do know is that it has sold about 1 million by 2015 in USA and UK together. From this we can make some informed guesses on how much it has sold globally. Various ways of doing this (using population numbers, market caps, data for other records, etc), and extrapolating to getg global numbers. I chose to look at how the record sold in various markets in 2009 and then using the current real sales figures. That gives a range of 4 to 6 millions by 2015. It could be 4.1 millions, it could be 5.8 millions. I have no idea, but I believe it is within that range and I have seen no good reason to not believe so. 

Or you coould just say that US/UK is about half od the market, hence it has sold 2 millions by now. Or maybe these two markets comprise 1/3 of the global market, if so the record has sold 3 millions by now. And so on.

[Mr. Dude]

3 hours ago, sonofnazareth said:

1 copy, purchased by Slash in 2008.

Slash didn't pay for his copy as he claimed to have heard it before it came out. Perhaps that is where the rift between Axl and Slash began.                                                              sdd ZXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXS

[IndiannaRose]

Regardless of the amount of albums sold, one thing is for certain...Geffen/Interscope/Whatever completely duped Best Buy on this deal.

[SoulMonster]

 

6 hours ago, Rustycage said:

You are such a liar.

 

We went over it for days. The sales figures are mostly by orders to retailers, NOT actual sales. That is why many ended up in dollar stores. The album did not sell well with the public.

 

"Extrapolate." Remember?

A liar? If I thought you had proven that the album can't have sold in the range of 4 to 6 millions, don't you think I would have accepted it then? I mean, proving something puts it to rest, right? Give it a twirl in your head, I am sure you will see it.

What I do remember from our discussion is that you never really understood what I was doing and insisited on using the 2.8 million or whatever as the starting point for whatever argument you tried to make. The fact that you now continue to talk about "orders to retailers" implies you still do this. Again, the starting point for my estimation is the actual sales figures reported for US and UK in 2015, not any shipped numbers. We know it has sold about 1 million units in these two markets. From this we can -- wait for it -- extrapolate to global sales using various methods. I decided to use known appreciation for the record in 2009 as that method, but you could have used pure population numbers, record selling market caps, etc.

And now I await you still going back to the 2009 numbers and arguing that if it sold at the most 2.8 millions by the end of 2009 (assuming it had reached the shipped numbers by then)  it can't possibly have sold 4 millions by 2015, disregarding the fact that we have no idea how much the record had sold by the end of 2009 because what numbers we have for that year come from various dates over the year.

[Swedish]

Does it really matter how much CD has sold? I've loved albums selling 2000 copies and I've hated album selling 20 million copies...

[NicoRourke]

I bet the tour will boost it again. Immn iTunes here in Belgium, in the most downloaded songs are CD, TIL and Better. Has to be for a reason.

Regardless of sales, I love it anyway.

[DieselDaisy]

What a dull debate.

All I know is, I don't know one single person who bought the thing besides myself and it ended up straight in bargain baskets. The idea that this record somehow sold a million or two million post 2009 is blatant nonsense.

[Silent Jay]

Platinum in US

Platinum in Europe

Rest Of The World.

Probably three million units then. Best Buy must have lost a lot of money, great way to start a joke inside best buy, chinese democracy lol.

[DR DOOM]

17 hours ago, Len B'stard said:

Who gives a flying fuck, it's a bag of shite and you all know it, the real bands sort of back together now, Fagba and Shitman are gone, look to the future kids, there's the off chance you might hear 'some decent fuckin' music at last!'.

Hear, hear.

[wasted]

12 hours ago, IndiannaRose said:

Regardless of the amount of albums sold, one thing is for certain...Geffen/Interscope/Whatever completely duped Best Buy on this deal.

Kind of, sort of, not really as the whole point of Best Buys statergy was to sell a small selection of cds which would sell in the end. If one didn't sell as expected the others picked up the slack.

Their strat might not have worked because no fucker goes in Best buy but they weren't duped. If Wal Mart did CD it would have sold a lot better in the US because people could actually see it in-store. It's more of a long term investment. 

They may have whinged a bit about Axl not helping them but really it would have made no difference. Axl did his work on the road for the next 6 years with 4-6 CD songs a night. That must have helped sell a few copies. 

Can you buy copies of CD on Best Buy now?

 

[DieselDaisy]

You can buy copies of CD in Poundland.

[Silent Jay]

You will start laughing when the new album with slash will sell less copies than ChiDem. It will be a test to reach 300K first week and platinum in the US. Rock Or Bust which was the top selling rock record of 2015 did not sell better than chidem.

[MYWIFEMYLIFE]

Slightly over 3 million.

[Silent Jay]

Mostly like 33% domestic numbers and 67% foreign just like CA: Civil War. Chinese only failed in the US but did well overseas probably because of the title.

 

* Platinum in sixteen countries and gold in sixteen countries.

In the US, kinda intersting, CD passed the 500K shipped mark on January 7, 2009, then it was certified Platinum by the RIAA on February 3, 2009 (we all know it did not). According to wikipedia, "After Best Buy clearanced the album for $2 in April 2011 it re-entered the US Billboard 200 again in the week ending April 3, 2011, selling 3,200 copies, enough for the 198th position. At that date, the album had sold 614,000 copies in the US according to Nielsen Soundscan. In the UK, it has sold 365,899 copies as of July 2014."

Still hard to believe it reached 1 million in the US (real platinum).

Edited May 25, 2016 by Silent Jay

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

Does it really matter how much CD has sold?

As remarkable as it may sound, to some people it actually does matter, a lot. Which is why this discussion has been popping up again and again at this forum, and why I decided to make an effort to figure it out.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

The idea that this record somehow sold a million or two million post 2009 is blatant nonsense.

That is not what I am arguing, either. As far as I know that is a complete red herring. Try to read what I actually write, instead.

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

That is not what I am arguing, either. As far as I know that is a complete red herring. Try to read what I actually write, instead.

I extrapolated that from your post.

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Silent Jay said:

Platinum in US

Platinum in Europe

Rest Of The World.

Probably three million units then.

I did not get that logic. How did you arrive at that number?

 

33 minutes ago, MYWIFEMYLIFE said:

Slightly over 3 million.

How did you arrive at that number?

The 3 million number is so ubiqiutous, where do people have it from? They heard it spome years ago and now it is stuck. Again, looking at certifications (platinum, gold, silver, etc) reported throughout 2009 some people calculated what it must have sold by then. Tthe problem is that those certifications were for both shipped and sold, and that the certifications took place at various dates. E.g. if it sold to gold by February 2009, after only a few months in the market, it is reasonable to assume it sold significantly more by the end of 2009. Anyway, by doing this these guys arrived at the number of 2.8 millions, and then people assume it has sold just a few hundred thousands since then so we are just over 3 millions. But there is a LOT of assumptions here and weaknesses in that method....

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I extrapolated that from your post.

Red herrings followed by ad hominem, nice Diesel.