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Good history on the Teddy Boys


DieselDaisy

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http://www.edwardianteddyboy.com/page2.htm

Put a lot of things in perspective such as, it was a thoroughly British movement and predates the arrival of American rock n' roll. Teddy Boys first appeared 1953. Rock N' Roll did not arrive until 1955 with Bill Haley.

The dress style began with posh Oxford students and Guards' officers who began to wear an Edwardian cut of Saville Row jacket. It was a sort of reaction against bleak post-war Britain. This then spread to the working classes, via dandified quasi-criminal groupings of Spivs and ''Cosh boys''. The earliest Teds seem to have hailed from South London, possibly Elephant and Castle. It then proliferated throughout Britain and Ireland - Irish migrants seem to have taken a disproportionate part in the movement.

Forget all of those gaudy light blue/pink drape jackets, skin tight drain-pipes and over-extended sideburns - that was something that only appeared in 1959, towards the end of its heyday, and seized upon by various revival movements of neo-Teds - the original attire was still in muted colours, blacks and grays, etc. The original drape jackets and drain pipes were a lot more elegant than the modern day stereotype. These are 'authentic' Teds,

13th%20july%201955%20a%20group%20of%20te

Stuff on its relation to rockers (the spiritual heirs), mods and punk movement.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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I fucking love that look, despite their hatred for punk. They had a massive revivial in the 70s, Kings Road was full of em, they used to have rumbles with local punks, which is odd because Malcolm McLaren got his start making teddy boy clothes and selling them out of his shop.

Of all the looks i think Teds and then mods looked the best. Spot on about the muted colours too, that other bright gaudy stuff was never really a think in the beginning, you'd get hammered dressing like that in the 50s. The Beatles were all basically Teds growing up.

Edited by Len B'stard
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I fucking love that look, despite their hatred for punk. They had a massive revivial in the 70s, Kings Road was full of em, they used to have rumbles with local punks, which is odd because Malcolm McLaren got his start making teddy boy clothes and selling them out of his shop.

Of all the looks i think Teds and then mods looked the best. Spot on about the muted colours too, that other bright gaudy stuff was never really a think in the beginning, you'd get hammered dressing like that in the 50s. The Beatles were all basically Teds growing up.

If you read that piece it mentions how McLaren and Westwood began selling teddy boy clothes from their store.

malcom%20mclarren.jpg

It is interesting, the endurance of the Teds. There is a common misconception that they suffered a mass-extinction event in 1960. Granted most of them either converted themselves into rockers or got jobs and married basically, but there was a small survival of them into the 1960s. Can you imagine watching Teds in 1967, the Summer of Love? They were around - the original generation; they would have still been in their mid-late '20s so just young enough to continue to be regarded as a 'youth movement'.

Then later on you had the revivals, with the beginning of the 1970s, the arrival of neo-teds who sort of merged with the original teds.

PS

Yes, Teds (granted the cut of the jacket could be a bit longer),

tumblr_lyw9c8WG4p1qiub4n.jpg

Later on they adopted the Gene Vincent leather suit image of 'rockers' (Teds and Rockers do rather merge together c.1960, Gene Vincent being godfather of both movement.)

The Beatles never looked cooler than here,

10e0812e5d4bace1b891afeda61dd838.jpg

Then they got the moptops, and a bit later the gay looking suits.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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A problem I've found is that i always seem to find myself liking cultural movements and icons that have a distinct vein of anti-wog sentiment running through them :lol: Whether it be GnR or Punk or Teds or English football, it's a weird thing. It was often a bone of contention amongst people i knew that 'why you listening to that fuckin' shite for?'. Or even someone like Churchill, who is a hero of mine but who really didn't think a lot about people from my part of the world. I suppose in his specific case my admiration is to do with his pretty much saving the only way of life that i know, the free western world, which supercedes any personal or even over-arching socio-political sentiment he might've held towards my lot. I remember Tommy Robinson of the EDL once saying that my lot didn't muck in and didn't wanna be associated with the culture and you never see em at football matches but like...with a bunch of people singing 'I'd rather be a Paki than a Turk' at the top of their lungs its a bit difficult :lol:

So it's kihda the same with Teds, i love the look and the music and the significance of it all but at the same time its worth bearing in mind they'd've probably kicked my head in on a Saturday night had they caught me by myself :lol:

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Churchill was not racist but he believed in the empire.

The Teds liked Chuck Berry and Little Richard and the jackets were partially influenced by zoot suits. Are you referring to the Notting Hill riots? I would not call Teddy Boys inherently racist in any way, except when one of the neo-ted movements began wearing confederate clothes. They were not like the skinheads.

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Churchill was not racist but he believed in the empire.

If you read some of his works there's some dodgy shit in there :lol: He did very much believe in the cultural dominance of the English, bless him. But again, people have to be understood in the context of their times, it's like looking at America and saying there weren't one decent white man in the entire country simply because slavery or segregation existed, humanity doesn't work like that, nor is racism or the accusation of a sort of reverse midas touch that immediately turns you and everything about you into shit.

The Teds liked Chuck Berry and Little Richard and the jackets were partially influenced by zoot suits. Are you referring to the Notting Hill riots? I would not call Teddy Boys inherently racist in any way, except when one of the neo-ted movements began wearing confederate clothes. They were not like the skinheads.

Yeah the Notting Hill stuff and the general clashes they had with immigrant communities, they were none too fond of us. Skinheads actually got on really well with black people, the racist element were just johnny-come-latelys who adopted the image and missed the fact that the entire movement was reggae fanatics and had massive sound system parties with all the West Indians. Funny how things get all mixed up eh, skinheads are like, iconically associated with racism now, when really they were anything but.

One thing i love about The Teds is the look was authentically and unmistakably English. Mods and Rockers was just faux Americana, Punk was very English but in a very spastic subverted sort of way, Teds were just bang on the money, looked sharp as a tack. There's a theory out there that in the modern post war age English youth kinda became like...i dunno if ashamed is the right word but more like...aspiring to the look and the culture of America. The Teds were hardcore English tho. I mean they might've listened to yank music but everything else was home.

Edited by Len B'stard
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Churchill was not racist but he believed in the empire.

If you read some of his works there's some dodgy shit in there :lol: He did very much believe in the cultural dominance of the English, bless him. But again, people have to be understood in the context of their times, it's like looking at America and saying there weren't one decent white man in the entire country simply because slavery or segregation existed, humanity doesn't work like that, nor is racism or the accusation of a sort of reverse midas touch that immediately turns you and everything about you into shit.

The Teds liked Chuck Berry and Little Richard and the jackets were partially influenced by zoot suits. Are you referring to the Notting Hill riots? I would not call Teddy Boys inherently racist in any way, except when one of the neo-ted movements began wearing confederate clothes. They were not like the skinheads.

Yeah the Notting Hill stuff and the general clashes they had with immigrant communities, they were none too fond of us. Skinheads actually got on really well with black people, the racist element were just johnny-come-latelys who adopted the image and missed the fact that the entire movement was reggae fanatics and had massive sound system parties with all the West Indians. Funny how things get all mixed up eh, skinheads are like, iconically associated with racism now, when really they were anything but.

One thing i love about The Teds is the look was authentically and unmistakably English. Mods and Rockers was just faux Americana, Punk was very English but in a very spastic subverted sort of way, Teds were just bang on the money, looked sharp as a tack. There's a theory out there that in the modern post war age English youth kinda became like...i dunno if ashamed is the right word but more like...aspiring to the look and the culture of America. The Teds were hardcore English tho. I mean they might've listened to yank music but everything else was home.

Churchill believed that the 'English speaking peoples' had the capacity to steer the backwards 'coloured' peoples of the world towards representative government, democracy, etc. He saw the Empire and Commonwealth as a vehicle for that, just as much as the United States - remember, he was half American. Some people today would probably throw the race card at that belief yet it is not so much racist as whiggish and a bit smug. For Churchill, it was not race which determined Anglo supremacy but historical trajectory. If you read his writings there is a remarkable liberal spirit there.

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But there are some hoary old quotes which you can pull up which can be construed as racist. But you summed it up when saying he is a product of his time. You cannot judge him by today's society, the society which produces tranny toilets and 'bah bah rainbow sheep'. Churchill is going to look racist by today's standards. But judging him by his time, he was certainly an imperialist (there is no getting away from that) and believed in a 'English speaking' supremacy of sorts - which could be called 'white supremacy' - but a supremacy not determined by race but progress and civilisation. In his History of the English Speaking Peoples, he writes about the ancient Britons when we were a bunch of heathen barbarians (in contrast to Rome) just like 'today's backwards parts of the world', theorising that today's third world could stand where Britain is today! Churchill's ideology was very whiggish. His views on history were informed by Trevelyan and Macaulay, the progress of English Common law, the 'Glorious Revolution' (don't forget that his ancestor, Marlborough, was involved in the Revolution) and Westminster Parliamentarianism. He believed Britain should steer the third world through the progress we had attained in earlier periods.

To modern ears it is a bit, Bushesque maybe.

You have to remember also, he fought for Britain against the Boer Republics. And of course (more well known) he opposed Hitler. Germany's anti-antisemitism was not really the reason why Britain went to war with Nazi Germany but Churchill was certainly aware of it and spoke against it - proof of this is in his essay on Hitler in Great Contemporaries which was written before the war.

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Im not really clued up on all that actually, i was just watching a documentary the other day on the history of London, heard it there. Fascinating stuff though, to think there are still places in old London town that date right back to Roman times. Fills me with an enormous sense of awe, privelige even, to be of the few to share this little island and all its history, i know i would say this, being born and bred here but it really is the greatest country in the world, so influential and integral to world culture as it stands, there's nowhere I'd rather live, everytime i go through London i see history at every turn.

For all the gobbing off other countries do about democracy and freedom, of course the Roman came up with it, but England is the most responsible for the current system than any other country in the world and had it implemented and functional before, i think though i fear you might put me right here, any other.

I'm not a believer in nationalism or anything but for me personally, according to the things that i hold value in, this is the best country in the world.

Edited by Len B'stard
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So what was the incarnation of the ones who originally made it like?

Pericles' Athenian city state (polis) invented democracy in the 5th century. But it was different from our democracy in that it was direct democracy. Every Athenian male citizen met on the acropolis and spoke up, voted and legislated on measures. We practice indirect democracy by which you appoint a member of parliament (or senator, congressman etc.) to represent you on the appointed council(s). Democracy was somewhat a dirty word up to comparatively recently, and the knowledge of Athenian democracy somewhat lost. It did not help that the Jacobites installed a radical democracy during the French Revolution which of course led to the 'Reign of Terror' and twenty-two years of warfare! The United States however successfully installed the worlds' first modern democracy - there are precedents however.

Britain built up the world's first modern representative state, and with that, the world's first constitutional monarchy. Monarchy was associated with absolutism and tyranny however Britain's 17th century conflicts led to a system whereby monarchy was restrained by a legislative body (Parliament). We also created the world's first modern economic state with a sinking fund and a system of public debt (this is how we funded all of those wars against Napoleon). We were also a major contributor to the establishment of globalisation and the consumer society who become fond of imperial imports such as tea, coffee, sugar, chocolate, calicoes and silk, etc. None of this was possible without the empire.

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England was also a huge hub for passenger ships into the 1960s, maybe the 1970s when people started flying, but there's still people who will only go across the Atlantic by boat.

I saw that site when I was reading about Billy Fury.

Ken Russell who also directed "Tommy" & "The Devils" was once a photographer, he was probably close to their age (and maybe a Ted) to get those photos, but that was pretty androgynous for its day.

http://www.vintag.es/2015/02/pictures-of-teddy-girls-in-london-1955.html

Article about the revival in the 70s

http://www.vice.com/read/what-will-become-of-the-teddy-boys-282

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I wouldn't mess with these chaps,

teds%20smoking.jpg

This is a dapper looking 'authentic' Ted, on the left,

teddy-boys-teddy-boys-in--002.jpg

See, it could not be more different from those gaudy revivalists associated with Sha Na Na. Compare the above to this for instance,

rock%20n%20roll%20revival%20show%20at%20

Sideburns/hair should be kept to a maintainable level. Drainpipes should not be skintight.

Slightly off topic, I never knew mods developed into skinheads. Essentially a few mods continued during hippydom which they rejected (they were known as 'hard mods'), befriending West Indians and co-opting Jamaican ska and soul. Eventually they began shaving their hair and favouring jeans and boots over the customary Italian suits. Some of the groundwork was already there during the mods' heyday though, e.g. on Quadrophenia there is that West Indian associate who sells them 'blues' and him from The Bill wears a trilby.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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Yeah, they couldnt do the pretty Ace Face bit so they cropped their barnets, got DMs and all that and branched off. The lad in west indian lad is different, hes a rudeboy, based on the old Jamaican tradition of sending these sort of troublemakers over to the parties of rival sound systems and wrecking them, they were the ones who had that particular uniform.

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The mods grew out of jazz listening Frenchified beatnik poofta types. They did not even like booze or pubs. I do not even think they liked girls very much as their girls dressed like boys. They used to take amphetamines all night and rode effeminate Italian scooters. I would definitely be a rocker, listening to Gene Vincent and beating up some mods in Brighton.

I would prefer to be a Ted over anything though.

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I'd be a mod all day long, they were vicious, horrible, slightly queer looking which must've been wonderfully offensive back then, fuckin' buzzin' off their tits all the time, dunno about the fuckin' hair-dryers though.

Also, first and foremost, the music was MUCH better. Fuckin' Motown and early Who type bands, within it's time it would've been great whereas the rockers were just kinda limited to 50s rock n roll which, although it's probably my most favourite music of all time, the parameters are kinda narrow. Also mods were like...I dunno, they looked like they were going somewhere.

Although i dunno, I'd probably get sick of mod/rocker/ted any of it after a week to ten days. I'll go for mocker :D

Edited by Len B'stard
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Chuck Berry, Eddie Cochran, Gene Vincent, Elvis, Little Richard, Jerry Lee? That would keep me happy as a listener? The mods listened to Jazz initially, Miles Davis and so forth. They would not drink beer and spent all day shopping for clothes. Poofs.

I thought you were tall? Tall people struggle with the mod look. A tall person would look much better as a rocker.

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