Poor GG Allin, becomes a hologram

[Len Cnut]

To my mind, Rock n Roll, since I'm getting all sociological anyway, was just like football or boxing or whatever, a way out for the working class to get so they could rise above their platform in life and make a bit of money and assert themselves in a culture that sort of marginalises them. Probably the biggest victims are the people that fall for that line about 'keeping it real' and end up with GG Allin-esque manifestos (although he's an extreme example, at the root of what he is saying is a commonly believed in ethos regarding rock n roll), it amounts to saying that the only way these people can be real is to stay within their little box, not make any money and just commit themselves, for life, to attempting to make a mark on culture under considerable handicap. The reason for that is because within that context they are manageable.

[DieselDaisy]

You are a bit obsessed with the working class aspect. What about middle class participation in rock n' roll, Jagger, Lennon (who was middle class no matter how much he tried to hide it). What about the Toffs, Queen, Pink Floyd?

[Len Cnut]

There is a hypocrisy in the u-turn here. You cannot very well preach about evil corporations like record companies and thumb your nose at the establishment, then switch into a darling of day time television. People are going to question whether the original music was genuine to begin with, and whether or not that is something worth bothering about.

You have a point here and one that there are a number of answers that the fellas under the lights offer to them, it's just some accept and agree with them and others don't.

Because it is possible to be a rich and successful musician and not sacrifice your principals and integrity. We are all assuming that a sacrifice like that is the only way one can potentially make money. A good counter example is Neil Young. You will not see him flogging car insurance. He travels on his own convertible to concerts.

An Iggy is a harder puzzle piece to work into a culture than a Neil Young though, Neil Young, from what little I've heard, makes kinda melodious nice thoughtful kind of music. And i don't mean that as an insult because what music I've heard from is lovely stuff.

Do you want to see Pele selling condoms? I personally don't. Iggy, car insurance? Axl, Budweiser? Why did they become musicians to begin with? All fat sell outs. I'm with GG here. Punk rock haha.

I don't give a monkeys if Pele sells condoms (as long as he don't stick his tongue out on em ) because Pele isn't some unassailable God to me, he's just someone that played football extremely well.

You are a bit obsessed with the working class aspect. What about middle class participation in rock n' roll, Jagger, Lennon (who was middle class no matter how much he tried to hide it). What about the Toffs, Queen, Pink Floyd?

Perhaps I am but thats what i see at the core of it. Jagger and Lennon faked being working class to play their part in it, so that tells you something, Pink Floyd and Queen i have never had any time for...and this was before i knew what concepts of class were really about or that they even had a part to play in popular music. But yes, thats not the first time that has been said of me.

[DieselDaisy]

Oh, Pele is a magician but this is why Garrincha will always be cooler than Pele.

There is a cheapening of the brand into tackiness. You only live one life. Do you really want people to remember Pele for his advertising or do you want to remember him for 1958 or 1970. Same with Axl. Do you want to remember him from the year 1987 when he was this punky nutter with a bandana or this shallow washed up has-been of man that he is now? Also there is a question of, 'how much money do you want here'? This is not working class people escaping a life of poverty any longer. Was Iggy really broke when he did those adverts? He must have made some royalties from Trainspotting. He was putting out solo albums in the early '90s as Slash and Duff appear on one. Does he not make some money from those deluxe special special special edition boxset compact discs of Stooges albums? Same with endless repackaged editions of Nevermind the Bollocks. Rotten must have been a millionaire before appearing on I'm A Celebrity. What a joker. Big fat sell out.

It is like Jagger counting the funds after the show. How much money could you conceivably spend in a lifetime? Jagger could not even spend his fortune, even if he tried? It is just making money for the sake of making money.

[Mr. Dude]

Ah, what was punk anyway other than a pretentious fashion statement? It always had more to do with clothing than any musical or cultural ethos. Its pop with a pink Mohawk.

[Strange Broue]

I'm surprised you don't like him, Len, as, Isn't GG Allin just recycled Sid Vicious, taken perhaps one stage further?

Nope

GG Allin was the last true punk legend

He was not a copycat

Of course that he was an asshole and a stupid junkie fuck but that was his real talent

The Hard Times is a parody site

Indeed. I'd have thought the tone of the article made it pretty obvious.

Oh fuck i don't know that

Regardless GG deserves a thread here

[Len Cnut]

There is a cheapening of the brand into tackiness. You only live one life. Do you really want people to remember Pele for his advertising or do you want to remember him for 1958 or 1970.

Pele will ALWAYS be respected for what he did...and lets not forget, football exists as it does, World Cups exist as they do due to massive corporate sponsorship, no amount of Persil adverts will wipe out what Pele achieved on the pitch.

Same with Axl. Do you want to remember him from the year 1987 when he was this punky nutter with a bandana or this shallow washed up has-been of man that he is now?

Axl does not belong in the pantheon of the sacred few, never did

This is not working class people escaping a life of poverty any longer. Was Iggy really broke when he did those adverts? He must have made some royalties from Trainspotting.

Iggy only managed to get a fixed abode in the late 80s/early 90s due to decent royalities off of Bowie covering China Girl...and then Trainspotting pumping some life into his bank balance, yeah but it's not the kind of money you can live off for the rest of your life.

He was putting out solo albums in the early '90s as Slash and Duff appear on one.

Not exactly multi-platinum hits though were they?

Does he not make some money from those deluxe special special special edition boxset compact discs of Stooges albums?

Again, it'd be worth looking into exactly how much they sold, remember, these albums tanked when they first came out, i believe it was Raw Power, to my mind one of the greatest rock n roll albums of all time, could be found in the bargain bin in shops in the 70s a mere 6 weeks after its release. Which makes you wonder about the English punks and how they all claimed to be so massively influenced by it, if they were they must've been the only fuckers who ever bought it.

Does he not make some money from those deluxe special special special edition boxset compact discs of Stooges albums? Same with endless repackaged editions of Nevermind the Bollocks. Rotten must have been a millionaire before appearing on I'm A Celebrity. What a joker. Big fat sell out.

John Rotten sold off the rights to all his Pistols stuff in the mid 90s, right after the first reunion tour.

It is like Jagger counting the funds after the show. How much money could you conceivably spend in a lifetime? Jagger could not even spend his fortune, even if he tried? It is just making money for the sake of making money.

Comparing Mick to John Rotten and Iggy, there's a HUGE difference in the sums of money we are talking about though. I think i remember reading Iggy made something like half a million from Swiftcover Insurance? Hardly jammy arab money is it? Hardly sit in the sun for the rest of your life being fanned by dusky maidens money, today in 2015. Iggy apparently invested money in Apple a long time ago before Apple became Apple and apparently that has served him well...The Stones, i read somewhere, although this sounds fantastical, Richards at least, made a million a gig for the duration of The Bigger Bang tour.

Rotten though, isn't very wealthy at all. Christ, i know working class lads who live in town that made money being buy to let landlords that have more money than John Rotten, if reports of his worth are to be believe, so he's hardly at some sort of House of Elliot level.

Iggy grew up in a trailer park going to school with some very well-to-do people, there were some really good projections for him, academically as well as socially, from an early age, he was in there with the posh set, hob-nobbing with the folks who owned General Motors, had money been Iggys cardinal interest he could've done better just staying on the track he was on and not living in a shithouse with 3 nutcases in The Asheton Bros and Alexander.

And y'know, its worth looking at their musical output too, to see exactly how much they compromise, I mean around the time the Swiftcover ads came out Iggy made him Preliminaires album, the whole bloody things in french for crying out loud!

[Strange Broue]

GG ALLIN MANIFESTO

If you believe in the real underground of Rock 'N' Roll,

then now is the time to do something about it. The time is

now to overthrow the current situations and declare war on

the record companies, radio stations, publications, clubs,

and anyone who promotes the whole so called "scene" as it

now stands. We need to destroy it all and take it back from

the corporate phonies and conformist. But action must be

taken now and blood must be spilled. First let me tell you

who I am. I was born Jesus Christ Allin in 1956 in

Lancaster, NH. The Jesus Christ they preach about in the

Bible is a phony imposter - just a crutch for the cripples

to lean on. Fuck that weak shit! I am the man to deal with.

I created myself inside the womb from the fires of Hell.

There are no separations between Jesus Christ, God and the

Devil, because I am all of theme. I am here to take Rock 'N'

Roll back & prove to the world that I am the real king

through the powers I have acquired. When I was born in 1956,

Rock 'N' Roll first started taking off. Why do you think

that was? Because I created it. I created Elvis. I made it

all happen. Even before I was born I was plotting. But

through the years everyone has let it all go. That's why I

am ready to take it all back. Nobody has held on. Nobody has

had the indurence to finish what they were set out to

fucking do. They all let me down or I took their lives for a

purpose. I was the one who was throwing all the monkey

wrenches into the gears. But money and commercialism made

them all sell out. Even Iggy let me down. The Sex Pistols

let me down. Sid let me down when he fell in love (that's

why they are all dead). And now we have the Ramones praising

bands like Guns N' Roses, which runs against everything they

were set out to destroy. But now it's 1991. This is the

decade for the final bloody mutilation. Time to get Rock 'N'

Roll out of the hands of the masses and back to the people

who will not accept comfort or conformity at any cost. Then I will commit suicide on stage

and the blood of Rock 'N' Roll will become the poison of the

Universe forever. Take a look around and see what's

happening. Spineless record companies kissing the

mainstreams ass, being pressured by the money media and

politicians. So called cutting edge radio stations as

fucking lame as the stations they oppose. Censorship

publications kissing the monkey suits asses, who in turn,

are kissing someone else's ass. Even so called "underground"

publications have no fucking desire to get blood on their

hands. They are too busy crying about how we can make the

world a more wonderful place and how politically correct

they can be. Talk is fucking cheap. It's time to fight. It's

time for revenge. We need to overthrow Rock 'N' Roll as it

now stands. We must bring down record companies by not

buying their products. A boycot. If you have to have a

record, steal it. That way they wont get your money. We've

got to stop feeding them. Your support must now go to me -

GG Allin, the commanding leader and terrorist of Rock 'N'

Roll. Why do you think I am in prison right now? Because

they know who I am and they fear my reality. Our society

wants to stop my mission. They want to brain wash you and

keep you locked into MTV, and their stagnating, safe worlds.

It's a plot to kill Rock 'N' Roll. I am the savior. Thats

why I am considered a threat to society. This is what you

should do: Go to your record store and buy all the GG ALLIN

recordings you can find. If they dont have any in stock,

tell them to order some. If they refuse, then do what you

have to do. Call radio stations and demand GG Allin. Spray

paint "GG ALLIN" everywhere. Make them aware that the

disease and the Scumfuc tradition is still spreading. Write

"GG ALLIN" on all your dollar bills. Any bills you have.

People do not throw money away, so it would be a free way to

get the message out. You must do it every day of your life.

We must live for the Rock 'N' Roll underground. It CAN be dark and dangerous again. It CAN be threatning to our society as it was meant to be. IT MUST BE

UNCOMPROMISING. And with me as your leader, it will happen.

I am ready to lead you, my allies, into the real Rock 'N'

Roll underground. Let's get started.

Thats his manifesto...'Sid Vicious let me down by falling in love'...'The Ramones praising bands like Guns n Roses who represent everything they set out to destroy'...this mans got the wrong end of the stick somewhere. Who exactly did he think Sid Vicious was, other than the dozy 'bass player' of The Sex Pistols? I find it mind-boggling that anybody could actually swallow the clearly fake idea that Sidney was some kind of rock n roll rebel leading 'the new way' or something, the guy was just a twit really, a soppy little sod with a schoolboy attitude to life and his surroundings. And The Ramones didn't set out to do anything except make fuckin' 50s sounding doo wop fuckin' music, i mean who did he think these guys were, they did Ronettes covers for chrissakes

Money and commercialism makes them all sell out, uh, what money did Sid Vicious make?!? What money had Iggy Pop made at the time of his writing this? What a thick bastard

and that is why he was the last true punk rock legend

He doesn't give a fuck about anything

His funeral video was glorious but i don't want to get a ban so i wouldn't post it here

[Len Cnut]

Yeah, him in his jockstrap with a load of Jim Beam bottles and pills stuffed in his gob

[DieselDaisy]

He has to be wealthier than that, Rotten. How much did he get for selling off the Pistols songs? And the endless reunion jaunts. He probably got about £70,000 for I'm A Celebrity. What a fat sell out doing that. I could not believe he would appear on a show which is usually the sole preserve of vacuous 'celebrities' like Peter Andre.

Iggy Pop is an embarrassment for those adverts. The Spice Girls have more punk rock integrity than Iggy.

Ozzy and The Osbournes is another example. Jesus, that was painful.

[Len Cnut]

He has to be wealthier than that, Rotten. How much did he get for selling off the Pistols songs?

Apparently not a great deal, couple of million i heard, at the time.

And the endless reunion jaunts. He probably got about £70,000 for I'm A Celebrity. What a fat sell out doing that. I could not believe he would appear on a show which is usually the sole preserve of vacuous 'celebrities' like Peter Andre.

The I'm A Celebrity money went to making the album, as aforementioned. Quite apart from that i thought he was brilliant on that show, he just spent the time caning the fuck out of the people on it, found himself in the centre of a bullshit media storm for saying the word 'cunts' and then promptly gave them two fingers and walked off the show when it looked like he might actually win it. Then there was that big hoo ha about John and his minder Rambo getting into a brawl with Neil Ruddock and his mates.

Ozzy and The Osbournes is another example. Jesus, that was painful.

See this is where the contradiction in my position comes to light, i cane the shit out of the likes of Ozzy for this but then let Rotten off, the 'excuse' (if i may be unforgiving towards myself for a moment) is that the money went to financing PiL getting back together whereas Ozzys appears to be just purely for its own sake. But then is the only thing objectionable about doing such shows the direction that the money goes in?

[DieselDaisy]

He has to be wealthier than that, Rotten. How much did he get for selling off the Pistols songs?

Apparently not a great deal, couple of million i heard, at the time.

And the endless reunion jaunts. He probably got about £70,000 for I'm A Celebrity. What a fat sell out doing that. I could not believe he would appear on a show which is usually the sole preserve of vacuous 'celebrities' like Peter Andre.

The I'm A Celebrity money went to making the album, as aforementioned. Quite apart from that i thought he was brilliant on that show, he just spent the time caning the fuck out of the people on it, found himself in the centre of a bullshit media storm for saying the word 'cunts' and then promptly gave them two fingers and walked off the show when it looked like he might actually win it. Then there was that big hoo ha about John and his minder Rambo getting into a brawl with Neil Ruddock and his mates.

Ozzy and The Osbournes is another example. Jesus, that was painful.

See this is where the contradiction in my position comes to light, i cane the shit out of the likes of Ozzy for this but then let Rotten off, the 'excuse' (if i may be unforgiving towards myself for a moment) is that the money went to financing PiL getting back together whereas Ozzys appears to be just purely for its own sake. But then is the only thing objectionable about doing such shows the direction that the money goes in?

Well there you are. You said it. Surely he was not so desperate for cash, to demean himself alongside Ant and Dec, with 2 million in the bank? We are far removed from Iggy sleeping rough, aren't we? Take Axl. Songwriting royalties. House in Miami, endless greatest hits tours, etc. Was he so desperate for cash that he resorted to being the fat prick in a Budweiser commercial? Or Pele in a condom advert. Or Billy Bloody Connolly, the Big Yin himself, advertising the (said in my best Billy accent) ''Lotto''. What possesses these people when they already have sizable sums in the bank?

I will give a lot of respect to Robert Plant who has resisted the urge to reunite with Zeppelin for large wads of cash and would probably be just as happiest playing his blues favourites in a pub (which I think he does to be honest) - he understands what I mean.

Edited November 2, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[Len Cnut]

Its alright for Robert Plant, he's been filthy rich since forever, the sort of rich that makes 2 million seem skint.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Len B'stard

[DieselDaisy]

It is all perspective. I would say two million is a lot - certainly a lot more than Iggy had at the period in the past you describe. It is probably less than what Axl possessed when he made that Budweiser commercial. In fairness to both, Paul McCartney stood far richer when he sold out to Nike. Why does a person with £500 million (random figure for sake of argument) desire £501 million? What urgent cause prompts you to publicly resemble a tacky used car salesman, or mingle with vacuous ''celebrities'' on British prime time television, that that extra one million will deliver? The fact I cannot answer that is probably the same reason why I would make a hopeless business man.

Somewhat by accident I recently watched this documentary,

an excellent documentary by the way (although I got somewhat irate with their estimation of my beloved Goats Head Soup which is beside the point). It describes how rock n' roll become intensely corporate, bland, cliched, shite, circa 1974-5 - essentially creating the impetus for Punk circa 1976. It basically blames The Stones and Zeppelin - i.e. the Stones' infamous 1972 US tour - for beckoning in the era of ''executive rock'', stadia, private planes, etc. But the music suffered dramatically as a result.

If you accept the argument above, that bands like Zeppelin and the Stones resembled fat travelling cash cows, and that there was a vacuum that existed which punk needed to fill, you have to accept the fact that rock n' roll was in a much healthier state up until c.1972?

Why was punk such a tabula rasa? Why was it seen as revolutionary?

You can make similar arguments for grunge in the late '80s early '90s.

To accept the fact that change was needed is to also accept the fact that there was something wrong to begin with!

[wasted]

None of it is genuine, it's just a way to take kids pocket money.

[DieselDaisy]

None of it is genuine, it's just a way to take kids pocket money.

It cannot be true as rock n' roll has frequently committed commercial suicide by the preconceived determiners of social norms, cultural taste and trends. Where was Neil Young after a #1 single and a hit with Harvest? getting pissed on tequila and making the most un-commercial sounding album he could possibly make!

Edited November 3, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

It's not enough to throw a tantrum after a hit record. You've got to do that every time. And basically everyone wants a hit and money then start getting weird. So it's not really that genuine. All rebellion is corporation owned.

But not in this pure way people want, like this person is perfect and embodies these political values to a fault. The road is bumpy and you didn't pay your taxes. Rage against the electricity supply.

Edited November 3, 2015 by wasted

[denin]

Was Iggy really broke when he did those adverts?

"Now I'm older and I need all the dough I can get."

- Iggy

I recommend reading his keynote speech, there, as he talks in-depth about the realities of the industry as he's seen them, as well as the conflict of art and money from his perspective.

Should you disagree with him, fine. But since you brought up the guy, you might consider hearing him out

[Len Cnut]

Was Iggy really broke when he did those adverts?

"Now I'm older and I need all the dough I can get."

- Iggy

I recommend reading his keynote speech, there, as he talks in-depth about the realities of the industry as he's seen them, as well as the conflict of art and money from his perspective.

Should you disagree with him, fine. But since you brought up the guy, you might consider hearing him out

I posted that in the What Music Shit Are You Watching? Thread

[DieselDaisy]

[Len Cnut]

Oy loiks country loif! Prior to that he did a Mountain Dew advert y'know!

[DieselDaisy]

Horrific. I am not even a fan of the man in any big shape or form but I still feel let down, or rather like the Rotten of 201X is letting down the Rotten of 1976. Fuck, if he is that desperate for money I would lend him a fiver - jesus, butter adverts!

[Len Cnut]

He presented his own TV show for VH1 too in the early 90s!

[Rustycage]

Loving guy, just smells of poo a bit.

That's almost what Gacy said verbatim. He said pissiest wino, though.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Rustycage

[denin]

Horrific. I am not even a fan of the man in any big shape or form but I still feel let down, or rather like the Rotten of 201X is letting down the Rotten of 1976. Fuck, if he is that desperate for money I would lend him a fiver - jesus, butter adverts!

Would you have preferred him to finance PiL via crowfunding?

That'd be doable, but usually with crowdfunding, one pledges to cater the investors in various ways.

Doing the advert and the corporate money is much less time-consuming. It's a day's work for Lydon.

After that, laugh all the way to the bank and get cracking on your schedule on new music.

I get where you're coming from and fair enough, the adverts exist to make profit for the butter company shareholders.

By proxy, Lydon is therefore affiliated in their money-making schemes.

The Sex Pistols are on iTunes. By proxy, Lydon is therefore affiliated with the shady Oriental sweatshops where iThings are made.

I guess Lydon sees the butter adverts as mutual exploitation between him and the butter company shareholders.

He spends (in his words) the monies to benefit PiL and gets to goof around in the telly to maintain his, well, Public Image, Ltd.

Joke's in the name, eh?