which songs dose Izzy Stradlin plays lead guitar on Guns N' Roses ablums ?

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, ToonGuns said:

Wish the album version was more like that. Could've been an epic 8 min jam like Locomotive instead of a verse, verse outro 3 min. Still love the song, but a missed opportunity imho.

I've never had a problem with the studio version. In fact it was my favourite song on the entire Illusion albums; it was one of the songs that made me begin listening to Guns N' Roses back when I was a kid. I liked all the rockers like that and You Could Be Mine, and none of the ballads which I considered only fit for teeny girls haha.

[t-p-d-a]

I think it's DJ Ashba

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is Slash. Izzy sticks very close to a Chuck Berry minor pent thing - especially in those days, with Guns. He never meandered like that. Izzy never produces epic massive string bends like that and flowery meandering string pulls/hammer-ons. These are all however Slash's raison d'être.

Let's look at the evidence,

- It is with Slash's rig. There is little evidence to suggest Stradlin using Slash's rig elsewhere.

- It is musically derivative of the subsequent acoustic solo by Slash (as confirmed in his book)

- Slash plays the solo live with Izzy in the band,

- We have this,

- Izzy never recorded a lengthy solo like that for Guns. All of Izzy's leads are little Berry-esque intro things.

 

You seem to have this reasoning that because something may have never happened before, it means it can't be legit. To your knowledge Izzy has never played with Slash's rig (which we explained before, stuff like that happens in the studio, besides they recorded two albums together so there isn't a lot of comparisment anyway). He has never played a lengthy solo. He never produced epic massive string bends (apparently you never listened to the intro in Back Off Bitch). So according to you that means it must be impossible that he played the solo, right? Great logic. 

The truth is that there are barely any solos from the man to compare it with. I think the short solo on Nightrain might be the only solo he ever played on a GnR song that we know for sure. On his solo material we know that Rick played most lead stuff, so that doesn't help either. So, does that mean he couldn't have played that solo just because there are few or no examples to compare it with? Makes no sense. That solo is a one of a kind solo in the GnR repertoire anyway.

 

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

- Slash plays the solo live with Izzy in the band,

Focus. That was already explained. Axl sings the song live with Izzy in the band while it's clear that Izzy sings it on the record. Doesn't mean a thing.

Maybe Slash was supposed to play the solo, Izzy recorded it to show him more or less how he wanted it to sound, and they ended up using his cut because it already sounded good. Same thing happened with the intro to Back Off Bitch. Not unlikely. Or maybe Izzy played it because it's his song. You keep ignoring that Izzy wrote the solo.

The fact that the solo, especially the ending, is played so simplistic makes me think it wasn't Slash. And if it is, then I don't know what the hell he smoked that day because he definitely didn't give it his A game, something he does on every other GnR song that I know.

 

 

 

[Free Bird]

10 hours ago, EvanG said:

I agree the booklet has more mistakes.

I also agree it has Slash's tone, but it's not that far fetched that someone else used his set up. That happens sometimes in a studio between bandmates when they are recording an album together.

The reason I think it might not be Slash is because this will be the only up-tempo/fast song where he plays lead on, that I know of, that doesn't have him playing a fast solo in it. I know he isn't the type of guitarist who plays fast for the sake of playing fast, but every solo he ever recorded, even if it is for only a few seconds during the solo, is played fast, except for ballads and slow parts in a song.

I understand that there are a lot of melodic parts in this solo that doesn't need speed, but even in the end when the solo reaches its climax and Matt is going crazy on the drums, the solo still doesn't speed up, and that is so out of character for Slash. Live he does exactly that in every version I've ever heard, he shreds his ass off during some of those moments in the solo, just like what you would expect of him. This solo really lends itself to playing a lot of notes in specific moments, as in most Spanish style solos. Especially from 2:11 on the song is just begging for a lot of notes to be played for a second or two, but it doesn't happen. Then at 2:21 you can hear the guitar speeding up a little bit, but it doesn't sound much like Slash... it sounds a bit amateuristic, like someone who doesn't know how to play fast very well.

So, that begs the question... if it's Slash, why does he play it so safe on the record and doesn't he play it the way a solo like this should be played, the way he plays it live? Maybe because it's not played by him, but by someone who actually wrote the solo. Someone who actually got the credit for playing it. Someone who isn't much of a shredder and who usually plays in a more simplistic way, the way this solo sounds like on the record.

I'm not saying it's definitely not Slash, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I really can't tell you. All I know is I hear Slash during the solo. His sound, his bends, his feeling. I don't know why he choosed not to play a fast solo. Maybe he thought it fits the song or the outro. Maybe he just wanted to try something else and liked the way it sounded, since he has tons of fast solos for rockers. 

[Darkenchantress]

23 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I think the short solo on Nightrain might be the only solo he ever played on a GnR song that we know for sure.

He also plays the Think about you solo.

About this issue, I personally think is Slash but I guess we'll never know unless we ask one of them. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Darkenchantress

[EvanG]

4 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

I really can't tell you. All I know is I hear Slash during the solo. His sound, his bends, his feeling. I don't know why he choosed not to play a fast solo. Maybe he thought it fits the song or the outro. Maybe he just wanted to try something else and liked the way it sounded, since he has tons of fast solos for rockers. 

I always thought it was Slash too, and when you've been listening to something for over twenty years thinking a certain way about it, then it's hard thinking differently about it. But when this discussion happened in this thread two years ago I started thinking about it and I realized that I always thought that the intro in Back Off Bitch was Slash too, which turned out not to be, so I changed my mind about this solo when I listened to it better. I could still be wrong, but I can't be 100% sure, like some people here seem to be.

[DieselDaisy]

49 minutes ago, EvanG said:

You seem to have this reasoning that because something may have never happened before, it means it can't be legit. To your knowledge Izzy has never played with Slash's rig (which we explained before, stuff like that happens in the studio, besides they recorded two albums together so there isn't a lot of comparisment anyway). He has never played a lengthy solo. He never produced epic massive string bends (apparently you never listened to the intro in Back Off Bitch). So according to you that means it must be impossible that he played the solo, right? Great logic. 

 

 

It is very good logic as there is no empirical evidence to support Izzy playing remotely like that, yet there is plenty of evidence of Slash playing like that including in the very song (the acoustic solo)!!

Listen to this from Slash,

Similar musicality. Similar feel. Slash.

 

49 minutes ago, EvanG said:

The truth is that there are barely any solos from the man to compare it with.

I've provided two above. You are correct however in that his lead playing is scarce, which merely supports my theory that Stradlin sees himself as a 'rhythm guitarist' first and is not liable to produce a solo such as that produced in 'Double Talkin' Jive'.

49 minutes ago, EvanG said:

The fact that the solo, especially the ending, is played so simplistic makes me think it wasn't Slash. And if it is, then I don't know what the hell he smoked that day because he definitely didn't give it his A game, something he does on every other GnR song that I know.

I completely disagree with this statement. As I said, it (studio version) was one of the guitar leads which inspired me to pick up a guitar. I think it is a brilliant. It has that epic (non-blues) sound which you hear on the outro in November Rain and in Anastasia whereby every note hits an emotion; it is a feature of the 'Slash sound' and is quite different from the purity of Izzy's Chuck-esque leads.

PS

From memory the intro to Back off Bitch is just a minor pentatonic note by note descent. It is a bit of a leap from that, to the solo discussed!

Edited June 28, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[EvanG]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is very good logic as there is no empirical evidence to support Izzy playing remotely like that, yet there is plenty of evidence of Slash playing like that including in the very song (the acoustic solo)!!

Listen to this from Slash,

Similar musicality. Similar feel. Slash.

 

I've provided two above. You are correct however in that his lead playing is scarce, which merely supports my theory that Stradlin sees himself as a 'rhythm guitarist' first and is not liable to produce a solo such as that produced in 'Double Talkin' Jive'.

I completely disagree with this statement. As I said, it (studio version) was one of the guitar leads which inspired me to pick up a guitar. I think it is a brilliant. It has that epic (non-blues) sound which you hear on the outro in November Rain and in Anastasia; it is a feature of the 'Slash sound' and is quite different from the purity of Izzy's Chuck-esque leads.

Wow, that's some first class elevator music from Slash... I've never heard that before.

I'm sure you're right about Izzy seeing himself as a rhythm guitarist, kinda happens when you've always worked with guitarists that are technically more advanced, and that's fine. But that doesn't mean he couldn't have produced that solo... that's my point. Maybe you underestimate him, maybe he's capable of more than you think in this department. He's played solos before, on Nightrain and on Think About You, I just found out in this thread. Makes sense... another Izzy song.

It's cool if that solo inspired you to pick up a guitar. I started playing because of Slash, too. I'm not saying that I don't like the solo, there are a lot of simplistic solos that I love, there's nothing wrong with that. It's about the feel and not about how fast you can play. I don't even think it's that simplistic. I mean, I grew up with Nirvana songs, talk about simplicity. I just think the ending is simplistic for a guitarist like Slash. There are a couple of moments in the solo in the end, where it just doesn't sound like him... it sounds like someone playing with not the best skills, just like on the Nightrain and Think About You solo. The way the guitar tries to speed up, it's so not Slash in my book... Doesn't mean it couldn't have been him, maybe he had a bad day or whatever. But all the reasons I've stated several times in this thread make me not so sure that it is him.

The only ones who can convince me otherwise is someone who was there with them in the studio, I guess.

[zepsun]

I'm a guitar player, who almost exclusively studied Slash leads until I learned every GNR song. I can detect when people are using les pauls, marshalls, etc., in songs from pre-amp sim days (before 2000s). Slash also has a definitive style, that I can pick out anywhere. Whether it's a solo, or a short riff.

In terms of lead parts/solos Izzy plays:

• The ascending scale in the Jungle intro :28-:31
• The double-stops behind the It's So Easy chorus, while Slash is doing chords
• The descending/ascending intro of Brownstone, as well as the left-panned descending pull-offs
• The clean leads in the My Michelle intro
• Think About You solo
• Leads in Rocket Queen verses
• Clean lead/riff in Civil War (right before verse starts, etc)
• Not 100% sure, but I think Izzy did the YCBM intro riff in the upper octave.

Izzy absolutely did NOT do any solos in DTJ

 

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by zepsun

[Izzymacbeth]

13 hours ago, zepsun said:

I'm a guitar player, who almost exclusively studied Slash leads until I learned every GNR song. I can detect when people are using les pauls, marshalls, etc., in songs from pre-amp sim days (before 2000s). Slash also has a definitive style, that I can pick out anywhere. Whether it's a solo, or a short riff.

In terms of lead parts/solos Izzy plays:

• The ascending scale in the Jungle intro :28-:31
• The double-stops behind the It's So Easy chorus, while Slash is doing chords
• The descending/ascending intro of Brownstone, as well as the left-panned descending pull-offs
• The clean leads in the My Michelle intro
• Think About You solo
• Leads in Rocket Queen verses
• Clean lead/riff in Civil War (right before verse starts, etc)
• Not 100% sure, but I think Izzy did the YCBM intro riff in the upper octave.

Izzy absolutely did NOT do any solos in DTJ

 

 

I believe he did. As I said before, professional musician for 19 years who has studied Izzy for nearly 30.

Izzy also plays the leads in the Move To The City verses. (on LLAS Izzy is on the right and Slash on the left for a change)

He has very prominent lead licks in Perfect Crime too.

He shadows a simple copy of the main lead riff on Estranged but its very faint. This is why he was credited for lead on this song. 

The Back Off Bitch intro solo, where he is clearly using Slash's rig to provide consistency and cohesiveness to the record. 

Yes, the upper octave on the YCBM intro also. 

The sitar on Pretty Tied Up is worth noting too. 

Also Izzy doesn't play on Civil War. That along with Locomotive and The Garden are the songs Slash doubled up on. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Izzymacbeth

[DieselDaisy]

Izzy also played lead on Hendrix's Machine Gun, Zeppelin's Stairway and Van Halen's Eruption.

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, zepsun said:

 

Izzy absolutely did NOT do any solos in DTJ

 

 

Ok, then please do explain why it is played so poorly at certain moments, at least for a guitarist like Slash. It feels like he chokes at times when he could have shined, like the way he does when he plays it live every single time. It sounds like he doesn't have his chops yet.

Edited June 29, 2017 by EvanG

[DieselDaisy]

How the heck is it played poorly? It sounds brilliant to me.

[98izzark]

5 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I really can't tell you. All I know is I hear Slash during the solo. His sound, his bends, his feeling. I don't know why he choosed not to play a fast solo. Maybe he thought it fits the song or the outro. Maybe he just wanted to try something else and liked the way it sounded, since he has tons of fast solos for rockers. 

Well yeah Slash has said before that he crafts his solos based on what the song calls for and that's why he said his favorite is (possibly in regards to just Appetite songs but I can't remember if it's his all time favorite or not) Paradise City because it was the only song (on Appetite) that let him go free and do whatever he wanted live.

[ToonGuns]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

How the heck is it played poorly? It sounds brilliant to me.

To be fair, it does not have Slash's usual levels of consistency and quality. No bung notes, of course, but when "shredding" or fast notes are attempted mid solo it sounds more ropey from a technique perspective than is normal for Slash.

[DieselDaisy]

3 hours ago, ToonGuns said:

To be fair, it does not have Slash's usual levels of consistency and quality. No bung notes, of course, but when "shredding" or fast notes are attempted mid solo it sounds more ropey from a technique perspective than is normal for Slash.

I do not hear it - sorry. You have all forced me to listen to it just now and it still sounds fantastic and it still sounds like Slash.

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

I do not hear it - sorry. You have all forced me to listen to it just now and it still sounds fantastic and it still sounds like Slash.

I agree with ToonGuns. Maybe you should listen to it better. I don't think it sounds bad, I've said that several times. But for a guitarist like Slash it sounds uncharacteristic. In a couple of bars, especially towards the end of the solo (I've even pointed out the specific time in my earlier posts), the guitar tries to speed up and it's like the little engine that couldn't...

If it is Slash, then I wonder why he plays it so simplistic and stiff in those bars towards the end, when he definitely has the chops to play it way more creative, basically how he plays it live every single time. Especially in a Spanish influenced solo like this it seems weird to me that he holds back. This is a great solo to play fast licks in, I think that is why this song is prolonged live and Slash goes crazy every time.

And for all you people who say that it's not about speed and playing fast, of course it's not... but this will be the only recorded Slash solo (that I know of) where he doesn't deliver and excel in, at least for his standards.

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

I agree with ToonGuns. Maybe you should listen to it better. I don't think it sounds bad, I've said that several times. But for a guitarist like Slash it sounds uncharacteristic. In a couple of bars, especially towards the end of the solo (I've even pointed out the specific time in my earlier posts), the guitar tries to speed up and it's like the little engine that couldn't...

If it is Slash, then I wonder why he plays it so simplistic and stiff in those bars towards the end, when he definitely has the chops to play it way more creative, basically how he plays it live every single time. Especially in a Spanish influenced solo like this it seems weird to me that he holds back. This is a great solo to play fast licks in, I think that is why this song is prolonged live and Slash goes crazy every time.

And for all you people who say that it's not about speed and playing fast, of course it's not... but this will be the only recorded Slash solo (that I know of) where he doesn't deliver and excel in, at least for his standards.

I've listened to that solo closely about a billion times. As I said, it is one of the solos which made me pick up the guitar back when I was eleven or twelve in the early '90s. I'd certainly agree that it is a sort of template upon which Slash would improvise in a live setting, but you have to remember the acoustic bit which fades in and no doubt stops the electric solo in its tracks - indeed it fades out. When Slash performs it live he is essentially encompassing both solos.

[T-Minus]

To my ear DTJ is Slash on all leads.  I cannot hear anything but Slash on those solos.

[EvanG]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I've listened to that solo closely about a billion times. As I said, it is one of the solos which made me pick up the guitar back when I was eleven or twelve in the early '90s. I'd certainly agree that it is a sort of template upon which Slash would improvise in a live setting, but you have to remember the acoustic bit which fades in and no doubt stops the electric solo in its tracks - indeed it fades out. When Slash performs it live he is essentially encompassing both solos.

Yes. But there is enough room in the electric part on the record for Slash to play in his distinctive style, and I'm not hearing it.

There are several moments in the solo where I think... hm, odd he plays it like that. But whatever.

But I'm surpised that people here can listen to the part 2:10 till 2:30, when it starts to fade out, and be convinced it sounds like Slash. The drums, the bass, those instruments take it up a notch because the song is reaching its climax, but the guitar fails to do so. It tries to in the last ten seconds, it starts playing a scale and speed up a bit, but it sounds more like someone who is still learning how to play fast properly. Nothing like Slash.

[DieselDaisy]

2:10 - 36 unmistakably Slash and brilliant. 

[EvanG]

Dude, now you're taking the piss. 2:10 till 2:30 is the most fundamental part in the solo that raises the question who played it. How can you not hear that it is played so simplistic and, I want to say almost amateuristic, and uncharacteristic of Slash.

Because it has his sound? Like, three people in this thread have already explained that. Intro to Back Off Bitch has Slash's sound too, we're sure it was played by Izzy.

From a technical point of view, even you, must admit this solo doesn't sound like Slash. Or you're musically retarded, if so... I forgive you.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

IZzy is the best and AXL SUCKS ASS along with slash duff and dizzy - they can all take a hike 

 

AXL if you don't bring Izzy back in the fold by the end of summer you will GO TO YOUR GRAVE WITH AN EMPTY HEART & SOUL YOU MOTHERFUCKER!@!!!!! 

[Izzymacbeth]

6 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Dude, now you're taking the piss. 2:10 till 2:30 is the most fundamental part in the solo that raises the question who played it. How can you not hear that it is played so simplistic and, I want to say almost amateuristic, and uncharacteristic of Slash.

Because it has his sound? Like, three people in this thread have already explained that. Intro to Back Off Bitch has Slash's sound too, we're sure it was played by Izzy.

From a technical point of view, even you, must admit this solo doesn't sound like Slash. Or you're musically retarded, if so... I forgive you.

While I dont think its Slash playing its a bit 'out there' to call it amateur when its still a GNR guitarist playing on a multi platinum record. In what way is being THAT high as a professional amateur? 

Different adjectives please. 

[EvanG]

Just now, Izzymacbeth said:

While I dont think its Slash playing its a bit 'out there' to call it amateur when its still a GNR guitarist playing on a multi platinum record. In what way is being THAT high as a professional amateur? 

Different adjectives please. 

That's why I said 'almost'. Please do read more carefully. Also, I used it in comparisment to Slash's normal playing.

Carry on...