How much control of the band has Axl relinquished for the tour?

[PatrickS77]

If Slash & Duff are smart there's a clause that will prevent Axl from going out under the GnR name without Slash & Duff's involvement, or consent. Kinda like how Ozzy did Tony with Sabbath once they reunited in 97, hence the "Heaven & Hell" thing with Dio in 2007.

Tony owns the name to Sabbath just like Axl with GN'R. How did Ozzy convince Tony to do what you said? Maybe Tony really needed the money from that reunion with Ozzy. Who knows.

Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell^[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.^[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album,Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_%26_Hell_(band)

That doesn't answer the question I asked.

For the real answer you probably would have to ask Sharon. The fact is, without Ozzy, Tony was playing in shitholes, with Ozzy he was playing arenas. I guess that's incentive enough.

[DieselDaisy]

If Slash & Duff are smart there's a clause that will prevent Axl from going out under the GnR name without Slash & Duff's involvement, or consent. Kinda like how Ozzy did Tony with Sabbath once they reunited in 97, hence the "Heaven & Hell" thing with Dio in 2007.

Tony owns the name to Sabbath just like Axl with GN'R. How did Ozzy convince Tony to do what you said? Maybe Tony really needed the money from that reunion with Ozzy. Who knows.

Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell^[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.^[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album,Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_%26_Hell_(band)

That puts it across that it was an entirely voluntary and altruistic act on Iommi's part. It would be odd for Iommi to own the name and not be able to do with it as he wishes, but not impossible; I suppose Ozzy could have persuaded Iommi to sign some exclusion contract when the first reunion happened, prohibiting usage of the name to any line-up except that which includes himself. It is possible, but would require accepting the fact that Iommi bent over and took it up the arse - Ozzy won a colossal victory there if true. That is the problem with scenarios like this. You have to believe massive egos like Axl would transfer ownership, handing over power that they have acquired!

Edited January 27, 2016 by DieselDaisy

[dalsh327]

All we know is GNR committed to shows, not a recording contract or a tour.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ozzy-osbourne-the-black-sabbath-trademark-should-be-owned-by-the-four-of-us-equally/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/9023418/Complaint-Black-Sabbath

http://www.vegastrademarkattorney.com/2010/07/ozzy-osbourne-and-tony-iommi-settle.html

[GNRfan2008]

If Slash & Duff are smart there's a clause that will prevent Axl from going out under the GnR name without Slash & Duff's involvement, or consent. Kinda like how Ozzy did Tony with Sabbath once they reunited in 97, hence the "Heaven & Hell" thing with Dio in 2007.

Tony owns the name to Sabbath just like Axl with GN'R. How did Ozzy convince Tony to do what you said? Maybe Tony really needed the money from that reunion with Ozzy. Who knows.

Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell^[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.^[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album,Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_%26_Hell_(band)

That puts it across that it was an entirely voluntary and altruistic act on Iommi's part. It would be odd for Iommi to own the name and not be able to do with it as he wishes, but not impossible; I suppose Ozzy could have persuaded Iommi to sign some exclusion contract when the first reunion happened, prohibiting usage of the name to any line-up except that which includes himself. It is possible, but would require accepting the fact that Iommi bent over and took it up the arse - Ozzy won a colossal victory there if true. That is the problem with scenarios like this. You have to believe massive egos like Axl would transfer ownership, handing over power that they have acquired!

Sad to say that this should be an issue, but as soon as a band hits it big in their prime they should put agreements together that cover this. "You're not allowed to play Appetite material in public without me." And it would apply to all members unless someone was fired with good cause (such as Adler's drug problems). It's not a very rock and roll thing to have these types of deals in place, but it would prevent clusterfucks like nu-Guns or whatever the hell Sabbath was doing...Van Halen, etc.

You gotta admire Zeppelin. When Bonzo passed, they knew it was time to quit instead of trying to pretend it was Zeppelin without him. They kept their dignity.

[bigpoop]

If Slash & Duff are smart there's a clause that will prevent Axl from going out under the GnR name without Slash & Duff's involvement, or consent. Kinda like how Ozzy did Tony with Sabbath once they reunited in 97, hence the "Heaven & Hell" thing with Dio in 2007.

Tony owns the name to Sabbath just like Axl with GN'R. How did Ozzy convince Tony to do what you said? Maybe Tony really needed the money from that reunion with Ozzy. Who knows.

Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell^[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.^[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album,Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_%26_Hell_(band)

That doesn't answer the question I asked.

Take it up with Tony Iommi. That's his version of what happened.

[JaxTeller]

I don't think Slash would join again Axl just to be a hired hand.He is having a good time with Conspirators, the fans love him and Myles.Even when Coachella was announced some people were dissapointed that Slash joined "Mickey Mouse". Also he said in an interview that if a reunion ever happens, it will be great to do it for the right reasons.Axl and Slash suffered a lot from each others egos back in the day..Slash has a project that is doing great,he does what he loves-touring all the time,recording stuff. Axl was the one who was in the corner and had no band after Ron and DJ quitted.So the wisest was him to compromise,not Slash.

[Eddie Money]

I can answer this. There's an oversight management team and then each principal member (Axl, Slash, and Duff) have a representative on a committee, and there is also a forth person to look out for the interests of the unrepresented participants (Richard, Dizzy, and Izzy, Tracy, Roberta, Teddy Zig Zag, etc).

[curmudgeonrose]

Duff is gonna be in charge of everything. He's a businessman.

[wasted]

I would say equal control. Thats why they on they posters.

[darknightfan]

Axl is always in control. Everyone goes through him.

[wasted]

Everyone signed off on Welcome to the Jingle.

[tat2d1]

If Slash & Duff are smart there's a clause that will prevent Axl from going out under the GnR name without Slash & Duff's involvement, or consent. Kinda like how Ozzy did Tony with Sabbath once they reunited in 97, hence the "Heaven & Hell" thing with Dio in 2007.

Tony owns the name to Sabbath just like Axl with GN'R. How did Ozzy convince Tony to do what you said? Maybe Tony really needed the money from that reunion with Ozzy. Who knows.

Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell^[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.^[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album,Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_%26_Hell_(band)

That doesn't answer the question I asked.

For the real answer you probably would have to ask Sharon. The fact is, without Ozzy, Tony was playing in shitholes, with Ozzy he was playing arenas. I guess that's incentive enough.

Back when the reunion happened in 97 it was reported through various outlets that a deal was struck to do a reunion and that Tony would retain rights to the Sabbath name, but couldn't tour under the name without Ozzy, or his consent. It's funny you mention Iommi playing shitholes before the reunion, because what, 5 or 6 years ago, Ozzy sued Iommi over merchandise royalties and in the complaint it mentioned how before the 97 reunion the Sabbath name was a damaged brand and Iommi was playing in venues 1/10 the size of venues they played with Ozzy involved.

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

Everyone signed off on Welcome to the Jingle.

They should make a Christmas song cover EP. Or double album

Edited January 28, 2016 by Caught_in_a_Coma

[wasted]

Everyone signed off on Welcome to the Jingle.

They should make a Christmas song cover EP. Or double album

ACDC's Mistress for Christmas

Alvin and the Chipmunk's Frosty the Snowman

Fairytale of New York - Shane McGowan ft. Duff McKagan

Jimgle the Fuck Outta My Way - new song

[Carlos Castaneda]

If Slash & Duff are smart there's a clause that will prevent Axl from going out under the GnR name without Slash & Duff's involvement, or consent. Kinda like how Ozzy did Tony with Sabbath once they reunited in 97, hence the "Heaven & Hell" thing with Dio in 2007.

I don't believe Axl will be able to go back to using the GNR name without those guys anymore. You can't go back after this tour, so its implied that the name will now only be used with Slash and Duff.

[life_247]

If Slash & Duff are smart there's a clause that will prevent Axl from going out under the GnR name without Slash & Duff's involvement, or consent. Kinda like how Ozzy did Tony with Sabbath once they reunited in 97, hence the "Heaven & Hell" thing with Dio in 2007.

Tony owns the name to Sabbath just like Axl with GN'R. How did Ozzy convince Tony to do what you said? Maybe Tony really needed the money from that reunion with Ozzy. Who knows.

Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell^[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.^[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album,Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_%26_Hell_(band)

That puts it across that it was an entirely voluntary and altruistic act on Iommi's part. It would be odd for Iommi to own the name and not be able to do with it as he wishes, but not impossible; I suppose Ozzy could have persuaded Iommi to sign some exclusion contract when the first reunion happened, prohibiting usage of the name to any line-up except that which includes himself. It is possible, but would require accepting the fact that Iommi bent over and took it up the arse - Ozzy won a colossal victory there if true. That is the problem with scenarios like this. You have to believe massive egos like Axl would transfer ownership, handing over power that they have acquired!

Sad to say that this should be an issue, but as soon as a band hits it big in their prime they should put agreements together that cover this. "You're not allowed to play Appetite material in public without me." And it would apply to all members unless someone was fired with good cause (such as Adler's drug problems). It's not a very rock and roll thing to have these types of deals in place, but it would prevent clusterfucks like nu-Guns or whatever the hell Sabbath was doing...Van Halen, etc.

You gotta admire Zeppelin. When Bonzo passed, they knew it was time to quit instead of trying to pretend it was Zeppelin without him. They kept their dignity.

Erm Led Zepplin have reunited 3 times since they split - two were a disaster and the final one in 2007 was actually very good.

The 80's reunions damaged them so much that they didn't really try again - however Page & Plant made a record together in 90s under that moniker.

[DieselDaisy]

If Slash & Duff are smart there's a clause that will prevent Axl from going out under the GnR name without Slash & Duff's involvement, or consent. Kinda like how Ozzy did Tony with Sabbath once they reunited in 97, hence the "Heaven & Hell" thing with Dio in 2007.

Tony owns the name to Sabbath just like Axl with GN'R. How did Ozzy convince Tony to do what you said? Maybe Tony really needed the money from that reunion with Ozzy. Who knows.

Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell^[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.^[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album,Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_%26_Hell_(band)

That puts it across that it was an entirely voluntary and altruistic act on Iommi's part. It would be odd for Iommi to own the name and not be able to do with it as he wishes, but not impossible; I suppose Ozzy could have persuaded Iommi to sign some exclusion contract when the first reunion happened, prohibiting usage of the name to any line-up except that which includes himself. It is possible, but would require accepting the fact that Iommi bent over and took it up the arse - Ozzy won a colossal victory there if true. That is the problem with scenarios like this. You have to believe massive egos like Axl would transfer ownership, handing over power that they have acquired!

Sad to say that this should be an issue, but as soon as a band hits it big in their prime they should put agreements together that cover this. "You're not allowed to play Appetite material in public without me." And it would apply to all members unless someone was fired with good cause (such as Adler's drug problems). It's not a very rock and roll thing to have these types of deals in place, but it would prevent clusterfucks like nu-Guns or whatever the hell Sabbath was doing...Van Halen, etc.

You gotta admire Zeppelin. When Bonzo passed, they knew it was time to quit instead of trying to pretend it was Zeppelin without him. They kept their dignity.

Erm Led Zepplin have reunited 3 times since they split - two were a disaster and the final one in 2007 was actually very good.

The 80's reunions damaged them so much that they didn't really try again - however Page & Plant made a record together in 90s under that moniker.

They however have all been one-offs. In fact they would certainly have done a more extensive reunion tour if not for Planet's aversion.

[RussTCB]

I can answer this. There's an oversight management team and then each principal member (Axl, Slash, and Duff) have a representative on a committee, and there is also a forth person to look out for the interests of the unrepresented participants (Richard, Dizzy, and Izzy, Tracy, Roberta, Teddy Zig Zag, etc).

I can dig that, but this:

Axl is always in control. Everyone goes through him.

has always been the case.

So I guess what I'm wondering is even with that management style in place, how would things work out?

Let's say for example, that Slash wants to do the AFD version of You're Crazy but Axl doesn't want to do the song at all. Is that something the management board would work out?

[SoulMonster]

I can answer this. There's an oversight management team and then each principal member (Axl, Slash, and Duff) have a representative on a committee, and there is also a forth person to look out for the interests of the unrepresented participants (Richard, Dizzy, and Izzy, Tracy, Roberta, Teddy Zig Zag, etc).

Tracy, Roberta and Teddy? Please tell me you were just suggesting some additonal band members and that these aren't actually included in the ineup for the upcoming shows.

No more bloatedness.

[GNRfan2008]

If Slash & Duff are smart there's a clause that will prevent Axl from going out under the GnR name without Slash & Duff's involvement, or consent. Kinda like how Ozzy did Tony with Sabbath once they reunited in 97, hence the "Heaven & Hell" thing with Dio in 2007.

Tony owns the name to Sabbath just like Axl with GN'R. How did Ozzy convince Tony to do what you said? Maybe Tony really needed the money from that reunion with Ozzy. Who knows.

Iommi, owner of the Black Sabbath name, decided to call the touring group Heaven & Hell^[1] to differentiate the project from the Ozzy Osbourne-led Black Sabbath.^[2] The moniker was taken from the first Dio-fronted Black Sabbath album,Heaven and Hell. According to Iommi, the name change was made so that fans at concerts would not expect "to hear “Iron Man” and “War Pigs” and all that... it’s none of the old stuff, it’s none of the Ozzy period. It’s all Dio stuff. So by calling ourselves Heaven and Hell, it’s revisiting that period."^[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven_%26_Hell_(band)

That puts it across that it was an entirely voluntary and altruistic act on Iommi's part. It would be odd for Iommi to own the name and not be able to do with it as he wishes, but not impossible; I suppose Ozzy could have persuaded Iommi to sign some exclusion contract when the first reunion happened, prohibiting usage of the name to any line-up except that which includes himself. It is possible, but would require accepting the fact that Iommi bent over and took it up the arse - Ozzy won a colossal victory there if true. That is the problem with scenarios like this. You have to believe massive egos like Axl would transfer ownership, handing over power that they have acquired!

Sad to say that this should be an issue, but as soon as a band hits it big in their prime they should put agreements together that cover this. "You're not allowed to play Appetite material in public without me." And it would apply to all members unless someone was fired with good cause (such as Adler's drug problems). It's not a very rock and roll thing to have these types of deals in place, but it would prevent clusterfucks like nu-Guns or whatever the hell Sabbath was doing...Van Halen, etc.

You gotta admire Zeppelin. When Bonzo passed, they knew it was time to quit instead of trying to pretend it was Zeppelin without him. They kept their dignity.

Erm Led Zepplin have reunited 3 times since they split - two were a disaster and the final one in 2007 was actually very good.

The 80's reunions damaged them so much that they didn't really try again - however Page & Plant made a record together in 90s under that moniker.

They were one-off shows. Two for charity and one was a celebration of their label's anniversary. Never saw them go on tours as Zeppelin without Bonzo. Compare that to other big bands like Floyd, Stones, AC/DC, Metallica, Van Halen, GN'R, Aerosmith, Sabbath, KISS.

[Eddie Money]

I can answer this. There's an oversight management team and then each principal member (Axl, Slash, and Duff) have a representative on a committee, and there is also a forth person to look out for the interests of the unrepresented participants (Richard, Dizzy, and Izzy, Tracy, Roberta, Teddy Zig Zag, etc).

Tracy, Roberta and Teddy? Please tell me you were just suggesting some additonal band members and that these aren't actually included in the ineup for the upcoming shows.

No more bloatedness.

I was only joking about the Tracy Roberta and Teddy part. The fact is that I know the Richard, Dizzy, and Izzy will be involved and there is a committee so to speak that gives input and represents the interest of their band members to the oversight management team.

I can answer this. There's an oversight management team and then each principal member (Axl, Slash, and Duff) have a representative on a committee, and there is also a forth person to look out for the interests of the unrepresented participants (Richard, Dizzy, and Izzy, Tracy, Roberta, Teddy Zig Zag, etc).

I can dig that, but this:

Axl is always in control. Everyone goes through him.

has always been the case.

So I guess what I'm wondering is even with that management style in place, how would things work out?

Let's say for example, that Slash wants to do the AFD version of You're Crazy but Axl doesn't want to do the song at all. Is that something the management board would work out?

I can't answer that, but I don't think it's that extreme. Hopefully, the band works those details out among themselves. There are much bigger decisions concerning marketing, $$$, tour dates, travel, etc.

[GNRfan2008]

Izzy being lumped in with the hired guns is crap. He deserves better than that.

[sonofnazareth]

Izzy being lumped in with the hired guns is crap. He deserves better than that.

Izzy deserves to be acknowledged as the musical leader of GNR.

Edited January 28, 2016 by sonofnazareth

[GNRfan2008]

Izzy being lumped in with the hired guns is crap. He deserves better than that.

Izzy deserves to be acknowledged as the musical leader of GNR.

Don't know about that, I just think it's bullshit to have him lumped in with Richard and whoever else.

Real GN'R was very much a group effort. Sweet Child O' Mine is a perfect example of what I mean. Slash accidentally came up with maybe the greatest opening riff of all-time, but didn't realize how good it was. Izzy and Duff recognized it and told him to play it again, then added their parts to it. Meanwhile Axl was upstairs writing lyrics and vocal melodies. And then you have Adler who Izzy said was so important that "nothing worked" without him.

[sonofnazareth]

Izzy being lumped in with the hired guns is crap. He deserves better than that.

Izzy deserves to be acknowledged as the musical leader of GNR.

Don't know about that, I just think it's bullshit to have him lumped in with Richard and whoever else.

Real GN'R was very much a group effort. Sweet Child O' Mine is a perfect example of what I mean. Slash accidentally came up with maybe the greatest opening riff of all-time, but didn't realize how good it was. Izzy and Duff recognized it and told him to play it again, then added their parts to it. Meanwhile Axl was upstairs writing lyrics and vocal melodies. And then you have Adler who Izzy said was so important that "nothing worked" without him.

a riff in search of a song...GNR would be nothing without Izzy's chord progressions. Duff has written some good songs and Axl is good with pompous ballads, but Izzy rules the roost in terms of songwriting in GNR.

Fortus couldn't write a song as good as Izzy's worst songs if he had 20 lifetimes.

Edited January 28, 2016 by sonofnazareth