Did Axl even try to make Chinese Democracy sound like a GNR record?

[maynard]

I wonder what makes people believe that a proper Axl solo album would be more experimental or instrumental? Because he said so? Fucking lol. Axl fans really buy into the shit he says. Yeah, the guy who fills his concerts with ACDC and Stones covers is interested in experimental music.

[Dan H.]

4 minutes ago, maynard said:

I wonder what makes people believe that a proper Axl solo album would be more experimental or instrumental? Because he said so? Fucking lol. Axl fans really buy into the shit he says. Yeah, the guy who fills his concerts with ACDC and Stones covers is interested in experimental music.

Well, he was self admittedly into experimental music in the 90s and early 00s. His decisions to add Buckethead, Finck, and Bumblefoot are also some evidence that he wanted some alternative/experimental influences, and compared to the straight forward rock and roll with limited production on AFD and Lies, it seems clear that Axl is interested in experimental music, as Chinese Democracy includes some elements of post-grunge, industrial, electronic, and other fringe genres.

I don't think he really 'gets' experimental music, and I think he's been very poor and sloppy with his attempts to be artsy, but if he went and made his own solo record, it seems like it would almost certainly have a few attempts at experimental music.

 

Instrumental though? Lmao no. Axl don't do instrumental.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Dan H.

[Lies They Tell]

52 minutes ago, maynard said:

I wonder what makes people believe that a proper Axl solo album would be more experimental or instrumental? Because he said so? Fucking lol. Axl fans really buy into the shit he says. Yeah, the guy who fills his concerts with ACDC and Stones covers is interested in experimental music.

What a crappy argument.   Axl sees the concerts as GNR concerts, not his solo concerts. So he plays songs that fit into a GNR concert not songs that he would play on solo tour. 

I see no reason why his solo stuff wouldn't be more instrumental. Songs like Estranged suggest that it's very natural for Axl to write long instrumental parts. November Rain was originally 25 minutes long, but was shortened, probably because of commercial reasons. So if anything, it seems like it's way more natural for Axl to write long instrumental songs compared to short commercial songs. 

[Babooshka]

1 hour ago, maxpax said:

Axl is a difficult Person with a twisted mind. Its still funny that "my world" on the UYI Album was the first musical hint for axls new direction. Axls biggest mistake was to release CD under the Name of gnr. His project with newgnr was interesting but it was never the real gnr deal. 

He wanted to be Trent. That My World nonsense was his first try. By the time UYI was over he put his plan into motion, got hold of the name, full creative control and also wanted to produce. Just like Trent. He even managed to nab Finck. All that crap about wanting to do a blues/AfD album was a flat out lie said after his desire to switch to electronic/nuMetal had gone public.

I agree he should have gone solo. I think that's the greatest issue in all of this. GNR and its reputation would've remained intact, plus CD would've been better. Personally I like OMG and think the songs on CD should've been more in that vein, much bolder. CD is more of a pop album imo. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it's the progressive or interesting album he wanted to create.

[maynard]

3 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

What a crappy argument.   Axl sees the concerts as GNR concerts, not his solo concerts. So he plays songs that fit into a GNR concert not songs that he would play on solo tour. 

I see no reason why his solo stuff wouldn't be more instrumental. Songs like Estranged suggest that it's very natural for Axl to write long instrumental parts. November Rain was originally 25 minutes long, but was shortened, probably because of commercial reasons. So if anything, it seems like it's way more natural for Axl to write long instrumental songs compared to short commercial songs. 

What's crappy about it? There's audiovisual proof that Axl has a preference for classic rock. Less and less CD material being played. More and more classic rock covers added to his concerts. Yes, his concerts, his solo band. Or is NuGNR some partnership we don't know of? Does anyone besides Axl call the shots? Who? Even his clothes reflect his preference for the old rock clichés.

Yes, there's Estranged and many other long songs from the UYI era. He's abandoned this style a long time ago.

If you take CD, his solo record, for example, what's the longest song? what's the longest instrumental part? Compared to the UYI? Yeah.

You know what's crappy? It's believing Axl is more than a rock singer and decent pianist. You'll look and sound like a fool when having a discussion with other people who know music and what "experimental", "complex", etc really mean. And trust me, 5% of Axl's work can be considered experimental or complex.

Axl ended a band called Guns n' Roses and started a solo project called Guns n' Roses for commercial reasons. If you really think the GNR brand was a band for the last 20 years, I'm sorry for you. I'm glad Axl reunited with Slash and Duff and the band Guns n' Roses is now back together. In his solo project he showed a preference for classic rock songs, hopefully with the old guys back they can play those epic songs from the UYI era.

[Kenan]

4 hours ago, Towelie said:

I actually really enjoy Chinese Democracy, but there's no denying that it sounds nothing like Guns N Roses.

 

I strongly disagree.

[Lies They Tell]

1 hour ago, maynard said:

What's crappy about it? There's audiovisual proof that Axl has a preference for classic rock.

Do you know what the word "proof" means? We have audiovisual material of a GNR concert. It's not an Axl Rose solo concert even if you want to view is as such. But based on a GNR concert it's impossible to say what kind of music Axl would play on a solo tour.

 

1 hour ago, maynard said:

 Less and less CD material being played. More and more classic rock covers added to his concerts. Yes, his concerts, his solo band. Or is NuGNR some partnership we don't know of? Does anyone besides Axl call the shots? Who? Even his clothes reflect his preference for the old rock clichés.

Why do you think all these things happened? People hated his braided look, so he changed it. People hated Oh My God, so CD wasn't as industrial sounding as it might have been. People hated Bucket and Finck, so they tried with a more generic looking DJ Ashba. People get bored if they play too many CD songs live, so they play less. These changes haven't happened because Axl prefers it this way, but because the fans want it this way. The difference between new GNR and an Axl solo band is that if Axl had a solo band, he wouldn't need to care anything about the fans opinions. But because he called the band GNR he felt that he needs to give fans what they expect from a GNR show. At first he thought that the fans would eventually accept the new look and sound of the band. But because it didn't happen, they started going back to the classic rock style. All because of the GNR name. If this was Axl's solo band we would probably get all kinds of industrial or instrumental stuff. You asked if NuGNR had some partnership that we don't know of? You could say that the band had a partnership with the fans. Not necessarily because Axl cares about the fans. But more likely because Axl cares about success and he knows (or atleast is starting to learn) that he must give the fans what they want if he wants to be succesful.

 

1 hour ago, maynard said:

Yes, there's Estranged and many other long songs from the UYI era. He's abandoned this style a long time ago.

If you take CD, his solo record, for example, what's the longest song? what's the longest instrumental part? Compared to the UYI? Yeah.

The longest song on CD is almost 7 minutes and it has a very long guitar solo. So I wouldn't say that he's abandoned that style completely. The UYI albums were heavily criticized for the overblown songs though, so that might be the reason why no songs on CD are quite as long as the epics on UYI-albums. If he would make solo record without the burden of the GNR name, he wouldn't need to care about the critics as much. Then he would be free to write just as overblown songs as he wants to.

 

1 hour ago, maynard said:

You know what's crappy? It's believing Axl is more than a rock singer and decent pianist. You'll look and sound like a fool when having a discussion with other people who know music and what "experimental", "complex", etc really mean. And trust me, 5% of Axl's work can be considered experimental or complex.

Ok! Good for you! I've never called GNR music complex. Of course some songs are more experimental than others, but I've never called it complex.

 

1 hour ago, maynard said:

I'm glad Axl reunited with Slash and Duff and the band Guns n' Roses is now back together. In his solo project he showed a preference for classic rock songs, hopefully with the old guys back they can play those epic songs from the UYI era.

They played those epics with the last lineup too. Anyway, we have never heard anything that Axl would have released as a solo project, so we don't know how that would sound. Even if you call new GNR Axl's solo project, it doesn't change the fact that everything that Axl has done, he's done under the GNR name and that name brings a lot of burden. The label probably wouldn't even let him release a GNR album full of instrumental stuff even if he wanted.  

What we do know is that in the nineties Axl was very interested about industrial stuff. We know that according to Axl his solo stuff would be more instrumental. Songs like Estranged and November Rain suggest that it's very natural for Axl to write long instrumental songs. We know that Axl has a broad taste in music. So the fact that they only play classic rock songs on their gigs is a clear sign of the fact that they don't play everything that Axl happens to like, but instead choose songs that fit into a GNR gig.

I'm glad about the reunion too. Now that Slash and Duff are back, the fans will probably be a little more forgiving and hopefully because of this Axl will have more confidence to release new music. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Lies They Tell

[niceguy]

ChiDem is a really great representation of what Axl was reaching for. 

He wanted to move past the 80s blues rock thing, but he was shackled to the massive success that blues-rock guitar brought him, thanks to Slash and Izzy. 

So, we ended up with something in between: it's sort of not blues rock, but he also tried to replace each secret ingredient which had been removed (namely, incredible guitar work). 

What you get is a mix of dissonance which just doesn't really work. Had Axl not been shackled to the GNR name and legacy, he would have come up with much better songs. 

But tha dream is long dead to Axl. That's why his SUPER SECRET NEW SONG RESULTING FROM THE THREE HOUR MEETING was.... The Seeker. 

[wasted]

No, I think they didn't go for a hard rock sound. Looking at the production team it's more 90s alternative sound. Considering they had a line up of alt rock guys it makes sense. 

 

This misconception seems to be at the heart of every new Guns debate. What we think Axl should be doing and what he was actually doing are two different things.

 

Not that I know for sure what they were doing. But I think Axl even said it was the absence of Slash that really stopped him doing that. 

 

Soundwise none of CD sounds like UYI. And how could it being recorded by NIN producer, re-recorded by Queen's Producer and Costanzo coming on board. Then it's mixed by Nirvana's producer. Not even SOD or TIL would fit sonically on UYI but they blend in live because they are brothers from another motherfucker. 

 

 

[Rovim]

16 hours ago, dalsh327 said:

Is it right to compare someone's new album to the back catalog? 

It's a good question. It's fun, so why not?  Axl said that with Chinese, he attempted to create a "true Guns record". But the people with the ability to make an all around sounding Guns album were gone. Some of their influences were also absent from Chinese, while other were more understated compared to the classic Guns albums. Not only that, but Axl's influences have taken more control and he incorporated new elements that were never heard of in a Guns context.

But I think another important factor is that Axl probably knows what a Gn'R album is "supposed" to sound like. I think he wanted to realize his personal musical vision, but still retain everything he loved about Guns. He realized his options were now limited because he didn't have Slash for the sleazy shit and he did not have Izzy which is a huge problem imo. He tried to use whatever he could. Izzy was generous enough to give him Down By The Ocean, we now know Axl kept a song that came from Slash, and that he wanted Slash to play on a couple of tunes on Chinese back in 2001 according to Marc, even though he was still bitter.

The conclusion that I've made after listening to Chinese is that Slash, Duff, and Izzy pull the music back to a more bluesy oriented place, and don't struggle too much with what feels good, what feels like Guns. They bring their own sound to it and ideas which makes the process less of a nightmare probably.

I think Axl's approach is to try everything. Every angle, more is more kind of thing. Duff, Slash, and Izzy's approach is very different to Axl's but the two approaches balance each other and if they manage to release an album, that's the truest Guns album you can get. Adler brings to it something exciting that is a big part of the Guns sound.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Rovim

[Rovim]

11 hours ago, niceguy said:

ChiDem is a really great representation of what Axl was reaching for. 

He wanted to move past the 80s blues rock thing, but he was shackled to the massive success that blues-rock guitar brought him, thanks to Slash and Izzy. 

So, we ended up with something in between: it's sort of not blues rock, but he also tried to replace each secret ingredient which had been removed (namely, incredible guitar work). 

What you get is a mix of dissonance which just doesn't really work. Had Axl not been shackled to the GNR name and legacy, he would have come up with much better songs. 

But tha dream is long dead to Axl. That's why his SUPER SECRET NEW SONG RESULTING FROM THE THREE HOUR MEETING was.... The Seeker. 

Fuckin' please... Better works as it's own thing. Street Of Dreams works just fine. Catcher with Bumble on top still works well. There Was A Time works exceptionally well. Almost every experiment with the Guns template worked imo. Is it pure Guns? of course not, but it certainly has it's own character and it is quite ambitious to try to blend such a delicate formula (vintage Guns sound) without Slash and welcoming new influences that naturally move away from the strict bluesy hard rock approach old Guns took. (for the most part)

Edited February 6, 2016 by Rovim

[RussTCB]

18 hours ago, Sprite said:

I thought a lot of Chinese sounded like a continuation of the Illusions style.

Yep, I've always felt the same way. I just told someone last night that it sounds like UYI III to me.

[Apollo]

19 hours ago, shjtjustgotreal said:

jesus fucking christ axl has said so many fucking times that he doesn't want to recreate the afd sound

whats the point of being a musician if you refuse to fucking grow?? (yes give me the joke about axl being a screaming 2 year old and not growing up)

One album in 25 years and touring 25-30 year old songs is "growing" as a musician in your book?

[Apollo]

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Yep, I've always felt the same way. I just told someone last night that it sounds like UYI III to me.

I remember an interview from the late 80s or early 90s when Slash said in an interview (sitting next to Axl) something like "Axl thinks GnR is his solo project."  

For me, SOD, Madagascar, IRS and Catcher sound like they could have been on the Illusions. And This I Love is 30 years old, so that's old school Axl. 

One album isn't really enough to judge his post classic line up vision. If Axl had released three albums then we could talk. But as of now......Axl took one shot and then just gave up. Unfortunately for us, his fans. 

I love CD. Outstanding record. But one album in 25 years isn't enough. It just isn't. 

[RussTCB]

47 minutes ago, Apollo said:

I remember an interview from the late 80s or early 90s when Slash said in an interview (sitting next to Axl) something like "Axl thinks GnR is his solo project."  

For me, SOD, Madagascar, IRS and Catcher sound like they could have been on the Illusions. And This I Love is 30 years old, so that's old school Axl. 

One album isn't really enough to judge his post classic line up vision. If Axl had released three albums then we could talk. But as of now......Axl took one shot and then just gave up. Unfortunately for us, his fans. 

I love CD. Outstanding record. But one album in 25 years isn't enough. It just isn't. 

Well yeah, but the thread is about that one particular album so that's all I was commenting on. 

[shjtjustgotreal]

56 minutes ago, Apollo said:

One album in 25 years and touring 25-30 year old songs is "growing" as a musician in your book?

no it is not my dear sir

i was only talking about moving on from the afd sound thats all

[dalsh327]

1 hour ago, Apollo said:

I remember an interview from the late 80s or early 90s when Slash said in an interview (sitting next to Axl) something like "Axl thinks GnR is his solo project."  

For me, SOD, Madagascar, IRS and Catcher sound like they could have been on the Illusions. And This I Love is 30 years old, so that's old school Axl. 

One album isn't really enough to judge his post classic line up vision. If Axl had released three albums then we could talk. But as of now......Axl took one shot and then just gave up. Unfortunately for us, his fans. 

I love CD. Outstanding record. But one album in 25 years isn't enough. It just isn't. 

Eddie Van Halen says "Van Halen is my solo project" when someone asks if he'll ever make a solo album. 

Interscope wasn't going to back a follow up to ChiDem, at least back then.  

[Stro]

On 2/5/2016 at 2:20 PM, curmudgeonrose said:

UYI sounds nothing like Appetite

CD sounds nothing like UYI or Appetite

 

It's continuous evolution

CD absolutely sounds like the natural progression of UYI.

[maxpax]

On 5.2.2016 at 10:54 PM, Babooshka said:

He wanted to be Trent. That My World nonsense was his first try. By the time UYI was over he put his plan into motion, got hold of the name, full creative control and also wanted to produce. Just like Trent. He even managed to nab Finck. All that crap about wanting to do a blues/AfD album was a flat out lie said after his desire to switch to electronic/nuMetal had gone public.

I agree he should have gone solo. I think that's the greatest issue in all of this. GNR and its reputation would've remained intact, plus CD would've been better. Personally I like OMG and think the songs on CD should've been more in that vein, much bolder. CD is more of a pop album imo. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't think it's the progressive or interesting album he wanted to create.

Not only Finck, don't forget Freese and another weirdo with buckethead i never got the re-recording of afd, cause you're right. He wanted to go into the NIN direction which has absolutely nothing to do with gnr. However slither and this gilby song from 94? Had a much darker\horror vibe. Interesting ideas but the musical change was not the right decision for gnr. The Video for since i don't have you was another hint for axls darker direction. Then came sympathy for a devil which was created for a horror movie. Then gilbys song...and now with slash's facebook posts and horror production company it seems like axl and slash came full circle however slashs music always had a positiv e vibe while axls nugnr stuff is dark and melancholic. 

[Babooshka]

10 minutes ago, maxpax said:

Not only Finck, don't forget Freese and another weirdo with buckethead i never got the re-recording of afd, cause you're right. He wanted to go into the NIN direction which has absolutely nothing to do with gnr. However slither and this gilby song from 94? Had a much darker\horror vibe. Interesting ideas but the musical change was not the right decision for gnr. The Video for since i don't have you was another hint for axls darker direction. Then came sympathy for a devil which was created for a horror movie. Then gilbys song...and now with slash's facebook posts and horror production company it seems like axl and slash came full circle however slashs music always had a positiv e vibe while axls nugnr stuff is dark and melancholic. 

Axl made excuses, but iirc someone from the label spoke out and he re-recorded AfD because he wanted to stiff the originals out of performance royalties. At the very least he wanted to get to Slash and the rest were collateral damage. The label shut him down. This was the beginning of the phase were he tried to wipe Slash out of GNR history.

Yeah, Finck, Freese and Buckethead definitely moved GNR towards NIN. I don't have a problem with Axl going in that direction, it would have been interesting, but the decision to do that with GNR is were it falls apart.

[WhazUp]

When you think that you are the band, anything you do to you is the sound of the band.  I don't know if this reunion is a sign of Axl seeing that it takes more than one of the defining musical members of the band to make it still sound like that band, but I hope so

[-W.A.R-]

1 hour ago, maxpax said:

Not only Finck, don't forget Freese and another weirdo with buckethead i never got the re-recording of afd, cause you're right. He wanted to go into the NIN direction which has absolutely nothing to do with gnr. However slither and this gilby song from 94? Had a much darker\horror vibe. Interesting ideas but the musical change was not the right decision for gnr. The Video for since i don't have you was another hint for axls darker direction. Then came sympathy for a devil which was created for a horror movie. Then gilbys song...and now with slash's facebook posts and horror production company it seems like axl and slash came full circle however slashs music always had a positiv e vibe while axls nugnr stuff is dark and melancholic. 

Slash has always been a horror buff

[DeadSlash]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 3:10 PM, Axl4Prez2004 said:

Honestly, I don't think of AFD, Lies, or UYIs when I listen to CD (or vice versa).

I for one am glad GNR isn't AC/DC.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy me some AC/DC, but let's be honest, everything they do sounds verrry similar, don't ya think?

 

Amen, if you own anyone of the last 5 AC/DC albums, you own them all.  The words are a little different.  Same with offspring.  Two great bands if you want the same album over and over again.

[wasted]

I can't think of a band that has put out as many songs I like in the last 10-15 years as new Guns. 

[maxpax]

19 minutes ago, wasted said:

I can't think of a band that has put out as many songs I like in the last 10-15 years as new Guns. 

Rock wasnt as good AS in the 90s but foo fighters and tenacious d were definately better than nugnr. CD is just too overproduced...