Did Axl even try to make Chinese Democracy sound like a GNR record?

[wasted]

27 minutes ago, Rovim said:

If Izzy can come up with a few ideas Axl likes it can work on the context of a record with many vibes like Chinese.

Chinese is great but it would have benefited from a few more tunes like Chinese or how UYI had those Izzy tunes like Dust N' Bones and Pretty Tied Up. My guess is Down By The Ocean is a ballad, so that's covered if it's a good song. We can have like a few Izzy rockers to balance the epics out.

Ironically, I believe that much of the Axl side of it is now completed by people like Paul that Slash and Duff didn't approve of, but there's a chance they'll record their parts on it since a lot of the big Guns were facilitated by Paul or he brought in the idea to begin with.

After UYI, they did not have a unified musical direction anymore. Not that they really had it for UYI. At least now they have a lot to choose from and many different approaches have been attempted in a Guns context so perhaps Axl can put together something that is the best of both worlds. Vintage Guns tunes with a more bluesy, traditional approach right along more futuristic tunes (for Guns)

It's a cool position to be in when you can draw from ideas that people like Robin, Bucket, Izzy, Paul, Fortus, and Slash came up with for one album. It's bound to have at least a few cool ideas in there.

That's what's interesting, to see how much of the CD era is brought through or how much new material is written and how much crossover if any. 

 

I wouldn't rule out some material from 96-97 being combined with new songs and that being the new GNR album. But it's really vocals that seems to slow stuff down. 

[SoulMonster]

I don't agree with the idea that GN'R has a signature sound. I think that puts too much weight and emphasis on AFD, which is the only record that really HAS a distinct sound. AFD was a cohesive record with a specific dirty hard rock sound with clear punk influence. UYIs were a disparate mix of various styles. What had been combined to make AFD so great, this awesome combnation of all the members' inputs, was disjointed in UYIs and resulted in a record full of songs in different genres (although with Axl's and Slash's signature singing and playing all over it). The band members didn't work together the same way any more, adding whatever they could to the same song to make them real band efforts, but rather worked more seperately and with less interest in compromises and contributions. At least when it comes to Izzy who was gradually disappearing, and when it comes to the dynamics between Axl and Slash who were starting to distinctly move in seperate directions music-wise. My point is that UYIs doesn't add to make the sound of AFD GN'R signature sound, it doesn't manifest that particular sound as GN'R's, it is rather two records that go in all kinds of directions and break up the cohesiveness that was AFD. It is the sound of the band starting to break up, at least the way the band had worked during AFD and their agreement of what GN'R should sound like, was falling apart. And because of this I find it weird to claim that AFD is what GN'R is supposed to sound like (I personally wish it was!). AFD was a true collaboration, UYIs showcased the band members' individual styles and preferences, and where they wanted to take the music in the future.

Edited February 10, 2016 by SoulMonster
Added something for clearity.

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't agree with the idea that GN'R has a signature sound. I think that puts too much weight and emphasis on AFD, which is the only record that really HAS a distinct sound.

What the fuck.

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, Rovim said:

What the fuck.

I don't think one record out of 5-6 should define a band's signature sound. One has to look at the whole picture, and then GN'R doesn't seem to have any distinct sound, except for being a guitar based rock band with Axl's vocals. As far as genre goes, besides the first record, it has been all over the place. So any appeal for the band to return to its signature sound, is a bit strange to me. If anything has been stable with that band it is the willingness to not remain constant.

[Rovim]

12 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think one record out of 5-6 should define a band's signature sound. One has to look at the whole picture, and then GN'R doesn't seem to have any distinct sound, except for being a guitar based rock band with Axl's vocals. As far as genre goes, besides the first record, it has been all over the place. So any appeal for the band to return to its signature sound, is a bit strange to me. If anything has been stable with that band it is the willingness to not remain constant.

These are the relevant facts: Appetite had it's own sound. Very distinct with Axl's vocals and the guitar interplay and just as a whole, magic was captured.

UYI did have a unique sound. It was different, and yet the vintage Guns sound was captured again. November Rain is a good example of something you wouldn't find on Appetite, but it's distinct as fuck. Signature. It's still Guns, still a signature sound that was achieved thanks to the combination of Axl, Slash, Duff, and Izzy.

So the Guns sound is like an umbrella and both Appetite and UYI, while different, still fall under the definition of the Guns patented signature sound. Chinese is something different. It doesn't have the vintage Guns signature sound.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Rovim

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, Rovim said:

These are the relevant facts: Appetite had it's own sound. Very distinct with Axl's vocals and the guitar interplay and just as a whole, magic was captured.

UYI did have a unique sound. It was different, and yet the vintage Guns sound was captured again. November Rain is a good example of something you wouldn't find on Appetite, but it's distinct as fuck. Signature. It's still Guns, still a signature sound that was achieved thanks to the combination of Axl, Slash, Duff, and Izzy.

So the Guns sound is like an umbrella and both Appetite and UYI, while different, still fall under the definition of the Guns patented signature sound. Chinese is something different. It doesn't have the vintage Guns signature sound.

I don't understand how you can claim that it is a fact UYIs had a unique sound. It is all over the place. There is little cohesiveness on those records. It has many different sounds, not one. Except for many of the same band members and the same production, the songs span entire genres from folk to hip hop to hard rock to sleazy to contemporary, etc, the song structures goes from very complex to banally simple, it is a mixture of electric and acoustic, it shows different types of instrumentation (piano-driven, guitar-driven, orchestration). All in all it is anything BUT a unique sound. It is the sound of the unity of AFD disintegrating into its individual parts now defining songs alone rather than in a dynamic process where all members contribute more or less equally with ideas and input to each and every song resulting is a disparate collection of songs only held together in some illusion of unity through the almost constant presence of Axl's vocals and Slash's unique guitar playing.

[trqster]

Both these CD songs are very, very much UYI era Gn'R sounding....

 

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by trqster

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't understand how you can claim that it is a fact UYIs had a unique sound. It is all over the place. 

Because the way the classic members played and the approach remained the same, so when these specific musical elements came together it formed what we like to call a signature sound. The Guns sound, that was diminished in UYI without interplay and Adler, but not enough that you won't call unique and very Gn'R.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

Because the way the classic members played and the approach remained the same, so when these specific musical elements came together it formed what we like to call a signature sound. The Guns sound, that was diminished in UYI without interplay and Adler, but not enough that you won't call unique and very Gn'R.

Okay, then I put more emphasis on aspects like genre, song structure, consistency of instrumentation, etc, when it comes to what makes up a band's "sound", while you put more emphasis on the individual members' ways of playing their instruments and approach. No biggie.

[DutchDemocracy]

I Believe Axl told in one of the chats that he tried to make NEWGNR sound like the old GNR, but that it just sounded 'odd', with the new players, trying to copy that old sound.

[Rovim]

20 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Okay, then I put more emphasis on aspects like genre, song structure, consistency of instrumentation, etc, when it comes to what makes up a band's "sound", while you put more emphasis on the individual members' ways of playing their instruments and approach. No biggie.

I most certainly don't. I gave the example of November Rain because it showed the Guns signature sound, as it currently stands, after UYI came out, is a varied sound. Like you said, one album from a band that released more than one good musical statement is not enough to define that band's signature sound.

But that doesn't mean they don't have a signature sound. Just because November Rain, Don't Cry, and You Could Be mine were not ready for release at the time they were working on Appetite or didn't fit that album's sound, doesn't mean the band didn't have potential to realize the rest of the elements in their signature sound.

As an album, UYI is not unified, and it's all over the place, but The White album by The Beatles for example was not unified and all over the place. It had a signature sound, it has The Beatles sound. (still had Ringo though but Lennon only recorded himself for a song like Julia for example)

I think the guitar interplay between Slash and Izzy was one of the main elements of the Gn'R signature sound. They just only used it really on one album. But UYI contained enough tunes that when you listen to all of it together it still shows Gn'R's signature sound. New elements of it even, but with others gone, which were important like Steven and guitar weaves, but the work as a whole kept enough of what we now call Gn'R's signature sound. To the fans, and to the world, it was still Gn'R's sound.

Izzy's songs, Slash's riffs and solos, and Axl vocals and melodies with Clink's production, and Duff's bass lines and the way it all came together for UYI were strong enough and still enough original members to make it sound signature.

I really can't explain this in a clearer way. You were wrong, no biggie. If you can come up with a convincing explanation to back up your opinion I'll gladly read it, but no horseshit please.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Rovim

[Strange Broue]

On 2016. 02. 05. at 7:36 PM, Towelie said:

When you hear Chinese, it is lacking in almost everything that defines the signature GNR sound. Obviously a big reason for the change in sound is down to the fact that it's made by an entirely different group of musicians. But you'd have thought Axl would've at least attempted to recreate some kind of essence of the old bands sound.

There's only really two proper guitar riffs on the entire record (Riad and title track). The bass may as well be non-existant and there's probably only two or three bluesy solos on the whole thing.

I actually really enjoy Chinese Democracy, but there's no denying that it sounds nothing like Guns N Roses.

So was it a lack of understanding on Axl's part about what defined the GNR sound or was it a purposeful decision to distance himself from the sound of AFD/Illusions?

Axl said that he doesn't want to sound AFD...

Btw CD got nothing to do with Illusions sound

 

The only thing it's close to the GNR sound is the rhytmic drum parts on some songs, apart from that, some piano parts