Will rock music ever make a commercial comeback?

[Len Cnut]

Now that you mention it, George is a good example of your point in terms of it being about more than just the money, i think he went for that Hare Krishna stuff immensely.  His temple thingie is not far from where i live, in fact there's a geezer who runs a vegan cafe locally and they were all part of the same community, their kids knew George really well but like, just as a bloke, they have all these home videos with him in them and everything.

And on the subject of Johns todger turning people off he told me of a time where his guru or whatever arranged to actually meet John at Johns house, anyway he showed up and was ushered into Johns living room and, apparently, there on the wall blown up was the picture from the front of Two Virgins.  The guru promptly left, deciding that this was probably not a spiritual sort of fella.

[The Real McCoy]

Country is the new rock.

Turn on any mainstream country radio station in America if you want to hear loud guitars in your music.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2016 by The Real McCoy

[DieselDaisy]

8 hours ago, Len B'stard said:

 Be basically backed right the fuck off.

Is this really true though? The reason for the dropping or United States surveillance has more to do with Watergate and the switch in leadership and less to do with any slackening from Lennon. Lennon's response to the order to leave within sixty days - this was '73ish - was to immediately hold a press conference and proclaim the formation of 'Nutopia'!

Understand, he was not fighting the United States per se but trying to appeal to an American consciousness, or what he believed, a consciousness which existed in the American people.

 

8 hours ago, Len B'stard said:

Their forays into politics and spiritualism is basically what Russell Brand is doing right now

Oh you didn't!! Tell me you didn't!!

 

8 hours ago, Len B'stard said:

it was only really McCartney doing anything productive with it, a

Ehh, Jackie Lomax, Billy Preston, Ravi Shanker, et al. - George Harrison.

8 hours ago, Len B'stard said:

You think Two Virgins had any bearing on the sales for Abbey Road or The White Album which it was pretty much released simultaeneously?

I certainly believe it hindered his viability as a solo artist.

Look at the music which John put out when he had abandoned politics and primal scream therapy. It is dreadful. Dreary Sub-McCartney crap. John's best music came as a consequence of fighting against something, whether that be his own innate existence or something more political, and not because he simply was making albums to make money. You are not telling me that Lennon composing a song such as Mother was done in order to ''make money''. It is achingly - almost embarrassingly - open. This was truly John at his best.

[Len Cnut]

Quote

Is this really true though? The reason for the dropping or United States surveillance has more to do with Watergate and the switch in leadership and less to do with any slackening from Lennon. Lennon's response to the order to leave within sixty days - this was '73ish - was to immediately hold a press conference and proclaim the formation of 'Nutopia'!

Understand, he was not fighting the United States per se but trying to appeal to an American consciousness, or what he believed, a consciousness which existed in the American people.

Which is precisely my point, the moment it looked like he could make a significant political contribution, i cant remember which convention it was, whether Chicago or whatever, when everything was coming to a head...and be basically backed out.  Him and Yoko talk about it i think in the Dick Cavett interview but don't quote me on that.  Honestly I'm starting to forget details about this stuff that i used to have wonderful recall about.  It was his association with Abbie Hoffman (who later became a yuppie by the way, like a key progeintor of the Yuppie thing, having been a founder of the Yippies in the 60s...make of that what you will) and Jerry Rubin that got him under investigation...as well as Bobby Seale of The Black Panther Party, all of whom were people he almost immediately distanced himself from.  And thats my point, after that it's just empty conceptual art gestures like forming 'Nutopia' and all that.  The minute it dawned on him that he was fuckin' with the big boys his arse went and he backed off.  Also, it's worth noting, these FBI files that were made on Lennon, someone should try reading them, they actually conclude that he wasnt a serious revolutionary threat because he was just fucked on drugs most of the time.  The only reason they followed through on the immigration thing was because governments don't tend to drop these things out of nowhere.

Quote

Oh you didn't!! Tell me you didn't!!

You know I'm right, in your heart you know I'm right   Mate, Russell Brand actuallly got something done, those birds on the New Era housing estate actually got to keep their houses after those well publicised Brand led demo's outside Downing Street and that, I'm not comparing John Lennon to Russell Brand is any substantial way and they are not in the least bit comparable as historical figures but there is that little parrallel there.  And it's the same with Brand, when it all basically came to a head with Brand, when he was put in a serious position like those televised debates when it became clear that people were like 'OK, why don't you run for office then?' and make a significant political gesture, he just shit it and backed off and retreated to his ivory tower and he's hardly been heard from since.  Like i said, dilletantes.   Brand'll probably be up on the road again in 2 years time, doing his stand up when he feels enough people have forgotten about his unfortunate Revolution episode.  

Quote

Ehh, Jackie Lomax, Billy Preston, Ravi Shanker, et al. - George Harrison.

I agree, which i why i put 'and to a point Georgie', whilst Ring' and John just sauntered in every so often when their hangovers cleared up.
 

Quote

 

I certainly believe it hindered his viability as a solo artist.

Look at the music which John put out when he had abandoned politics and primal scream therapy. It is dreadful. Dreary Sub-McCartney crap. John's best music came as a consequence of fighting against something, whether that be his own innate existence or something more political, and not because he simply was making albums to make money. You are not telling me that Lennon composing a song such as Mother was done in order to ''make money''. It is achingly - almost embarrassingly - open. This was truly John at his best.

 

I thought by viability you meant whether or not people'd by his albums or into em.  They pretty much sold handsomely, all of em.

[DieselDaisy]

We've lost sight of the original argument here. I agree that Lennon's topical interest contained something of the hobbyist, but then you also have to look at changes in America and not changes in John Lennon: Vietnam, bête noire of the '60s generation, ended 1975; Nixon, defrocked '74 and replaced with a more enlightened specimen in Gerald Ford; Black Panthers, declining because of fratricide, prison, exile and US surveillance. Heroin and coke replaced grass and LSD as the drug of choice (nobody is going to get too interested in politics on junk). Further, people realised you can get very rich on the music business leading to the first big stadium tours - the mid '70s is truly the cut off point here between music with a conscience and music to make money. What bands represented this era best? Fleetward fuckin' Mac and The Eagles? West coast smoothies, millionaires. Bands were now flying around in private planes. Zeppelin never had much going for them - god bless them - so they may as well have been the 'greatest hard rock band at the time' (I suppose elves and goblins were now the lyrical agenda!).

So what was Lennon going to rant about after 1973? He may as well have gotten flabby and middle-aged, and put out a series of piss poor albums out. Everybody else!

I never particularly liked Lennon's topical period, Some Time in NY. Lennon is better politically when he is more idealistic and abstract, like on 'Imagine'. He is better again when he is being achingly personal: 'Mother', 'Working Class Hero' - these are truly the man's greatest (solo) songs. This was what John did better than anyone - better than Dylan even. Nobody else opened up their insides for all to see like John. It was something he found in him, during The Beatles, as early as 'I'm A Loser' and 'Help'.

[Silverburst80]

Rock still does occasionally break through but it seems quite fleeting and i'm not sure if the bigger bands of the last 10 or so years will leave any real legacy. I'm talking about your bands that crossed into the mainstream like the Strokes, Kings of Leons, Artic Monkeys, Muse etc (not that any of those bands float my boat). It seems a long shot that any band with a heavier edge will ever rule the word again like we saw in the late 80s early 90s.

[Bono]

It will never make a comeback in terms of how it was. The sad reality is the masses do not value music any more. True music fans do but in the past the masses and true music fans both valued music. The record labels valued music. Radio valued music. It's not the case anymore so we get assembly line crap pushed down the masses throats and it's in one ear out the next. The value of music isn't there to the level it needs to be for rock or any music with real musicians to make a true comeback. The entire industry would have to change it's philosophy on how it does business and who it wants to target as an audience. The labels would have to go back to being willing to take chances and promote bands and stick with them when their 1st or 2nd or even 3rd album doesn't hit. That unfortunately is never gonna happen. Think about it if the industry existed back in the 80s the way it does now GnR would've been forgotten before they even had a chance to release the SCOM video. U2 would've been dropped after their first album. Metallica, good luck they'd have been dropped after one album as well. Nirvana would've never had the chance to release Nevermind etc. etc. The entire industry is built around instant success now. There's no interest in devolping artists and if there is it's only to change them into more of what the industry wants to shove on people for instant disposable success. 

The music world is like Boba Fett caught in the sarlac pit. He may have gotten out in some expanded universe fan fiction type stuff but in the world of cannon it's not happening................ yet. 

[JeanGenie]

Rock music has got nothing to say anymore. Last time rock music had something to say was 1994 when kurt cobain died. Ive never been a fan of nirvana but they had content and many people could connect with it. "Theres a fire burning its out of control ..." if you ever asked yourself what kept this fire burning, its bodies  (jones, morrison, jimi, joplin, etc ). I think the industry changed after the death of cobain. Now easy listening entertainment is the goal of the record companies.  Hip hop fits perfectly to this. It recycles what has already been produced and instead of showing us whats going on inside of them , something we could relate to, these artists splash champagne on whores with fake boobs. 

[Len Cnut]

Meanwhile Iggy Pop tops the billboard charts with a cheaply made garage rock album

[TDR]

There's plenty of great rock modern bands out there. People just refuse to look. And these tend to be people who say they're only into "rock" music.

Which is why classic rock fans are the dumbest people on the planet.

Edited April 4, 2016 by TDR

[gunsfanoldie]

12 minutes ago, TDR said:

There's plenty of great rock modern bands out there. People just refuse to look. And these tend to be people who say they're only into "rock" music.

Which is why classic rock fans are the dumbest people on the planet.

As always, who are these bands? I'm not doubting they are there, but I just always hear Halestorm, Rival Sons, Monster Truck, etc. They are good, I don't think any are great.

As for the real question of the thread, I truly do think this Guns stadium tour could be a game changer. I doubt it, but just saying if there's any old rock band that still has the ability to make rock commercial again, its Guns. All the other ones are dead or not big enough. It'll be interesting to see how this tour sells, especially for the prices. Even if they don't add dates, I'd say for these prices if they sell out that still means there's a good amount of interest in rock music.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I would hear good songs every now and then, but they grow stale fast. I can listen to AC/DC, Stones, Zeppelin and Stevie Ray Vaughan all day. I can tolerate Alabama Shakes for a few songs. Don't care for Rob Schnieder's daughter.

[TDR]

4 hours ago, gunsfanoldie said:

As always, who are these bands? I'm not doubting they are there, but I just always hear Halestorm, Rival Sons, Monster Truck, etc. They are good, I don't think any are great.

All those bands you listed are pretty lame. Let's see...

The Flying Eyes

Tame Impala

The Black Angels

Baroness

The Entrance Band

Samsara Blues Experiment

White Denim

Sleepy Sun

Alabama Shakes

Pond

Chris Forsyth & The Solar Motel Band

Elder

The Sword

The Drones

Queens of the Stone Age

Nine Inch Nails

Black Mountain

Naam

Naxatras

Death Grips*

Black Moth Super Rainbow*

I could go on for a while. Point is, there's plenty of good stuff out there if you look. And rock is just one genre of many...

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by TDR
Added a few more bands

[gunsfanoldie]

Fair enough. I know some. Tame Impala, Alabama Shakes, The Sword, QOTSA, NIN. All bands I don't really like, but I do know them. Can't speak for the rest. Regardless, I appreciate the list. There are many bands I really enjoy too that no one knows. I think the point posed earlier in the thread is of course there's unknown great rock, but there's no real good mainstream rock, cause they are the bands I listed.

[TDR]

It's all debatable. NIN and QOTSA closed out the Grammy's a couple years ago. But whether or not an act is "mainstream" just doesn't matter anymore anyways.

Music is so easily accessible in todays modern age that you can listen to whatever you want whenever you want and discover new(/old) stuff all the time. I'm currently listening to a playlist I made on Spotify in my living room that is well over 72 hours long which includes everything from Sun Ra to Necrophagist. Most of it isn't/wasn't/won't be mainstream, but that's fine; And let's face it. when rock music does go mainstream it's usually the worst it has to offer (see glam rock).

[PsychoKiss344]

There is a bunch of bands who do well for themselves...

Airbourne

Asking Alexandria

Black Veil Brides

Bring Me The Horizon

Ghost

Motionless In White

Of Mice & Men

[toroymoi]

Like with any genre, it's available if you search for it. I mostly listen to people I find through Apple Music, Youtube, or recommendations from friends.

Rock has been stale as a core genre for many years, extremely. I can listen to a band that debuted a few years ago, and they'll have the exact same sound as a band from 20 years prior. Even if you don't listen to them yourself - rap, r&b, and pop are able to thrive in the modern era of music because the people that make that music are willing to adapt to the changing landscape of music. Younger people are willing to listen to pretty much anything, but asking them to accept the same music that their parents listened to at their age when there's multiple genres expanding and offering new sounds is just not realistic.

There's a very real idea in the rock community that change is unnecessary or bad, and that the dream is for the general public to somehow love a genre that hasn't changed a whole lot in a long time.

Edited April 8, 2016 by toroymoi

[Len Cnut]

Seems like people missed the words 'commercial comeback' and its implications.  You can 'find' Australian digeridoo music if you look for it but thats not being asked.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Len B'stard

[PsychoKiss344]

The Struts are a band I can see becoming commercially successful

[The Real McCoy]

On 4/7/2016 at 2:36 PM, PsychoKiss344 said:

There is a bunch of bands who do well for themselves...

Airbourne

Asking Alexandria

Black Veil Brides

Bring Me The Horizon

Ghost

Motionless In White

Of Mice & Men

I've known Chris from Motionless In White since pre-school. I went to high school with him and the other original band members.

[PsychoKiss344]

47 minutes ago, The Real McCoy said:

I've known Chris from Motionless In White since pre-school. I went to high school with him and the other original band members.

Really? thats awesome!

I saw them open up for Slipknot last summer and was a fan right away!

Hook me up with some signed merch  

[The Real McCoy]

8 hours ago, PsychoKiss344 said:

Really? thats awesome!

I saw them open up for Slipknot last summer and was a fan right away!

Hook me up with some signed merch  

Haha...I probably haven't seen or talked to Chris since high school (12 years ago), but I think he still gets home fairly often when he's not on tour. I'm psyched to see those guys doing as well as they are these days, though!

[PsychoKiss344]

2 hours ago, The Real McCoy said:

Haha...I probably haven't seen or talked to Chris since high school (12 years ago), but I think he still gets home fairly often when he's not on tour. I'm psyched to see those guys doing as well as they are these days, though!

They are for sure doing well for themselves!!

[Silent Jay]

It's simple. Name the best rock records of the 10'? Few albums I still consider great nowadays. I don't know, The Devil Put Dinosaurs Here maybe, Crack the Skye, let's see... Hesitations Marks. New bands are all boring soup metal shitfest or too much on the other side.

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Silent Jay

[DieselDaisy]

The problem with newer rock bands is it is too easy to discern the influences. You hear a certain band and you detect where they enter 'Beatles mode', employ Zeppelin rifferage, or a Floyd soundscape. It begs the question, why listen to a third rate Kinks knock-off when you can listen to The Kinks? The baggage of the pre-1980s generation - the '60s above all else - looms too large for any budding rocker. When the 1960s' generation were in their formative period, rock was still relatively new, and there was not this baggage of entire legacies. Further, we now have entire discographies at our disposal - music is no longer something to be dug out. How can you, an aspiring musician, compete with the entire discography of Elvis and The Beatles? It cannot be done.