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Izzy and steven


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1 hour ago, starlight said:

yes but in fact he played every gig from 85 to 91

You mean up to the point he quit in 1991. He didn't play every gig that year. And I would not blame the others for being hesitant with him. He had good reasons to quit, but they have good reasons to be hesitant. Izzy made his choice to quit and gave up his rights.

One thing I will say about Axl's reliability is that it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. The man owns the name of the band. There is no GN'R without his involvement and so it simply doesn't matter if he's the most unreliable person on the planet. The other guys easily could have fired him when Alan Niven asked them to back in the late 1980's, but they chose not to...and then they chose to sign off on giving the name to him during the Geffen contract negotiation before UYI was recorded.

They all made their choices and they have to live with the consequences. I assume Izzy doesn't regret quitting. He made a lot of money by the early 1990's and he has been able to do whatever he wants over the last 25 years. Pretty good life I would say.

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8 hours ago, starlight said:

I swear I saw a video of GNR rehearsing with Izzy for the tel aviv concert in 93

Slash fucked up most of the songs during the UYI tour so I don't know why is criticizing Izzy for not playing correctly

People, you're quoting interview with the fucking media, for something that MAY HAVE happened back in 1993, from the mouth of someone who was totally burned out??

Sheesh, who cares. 

If Izzy didn't join this time around is surely because their respective visions didn't quite meet. Once again. Arena's, big tours, jets, pyro's, fucking keyboard players and whatnot ain't what GNR is about, fuck all that crap back then, and even now..

I stand by Izzy's vision. So as much as I enjoy the new shows and am glad to see some of the guys, it ain't GNR to me.

 

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11 hours ago, Rubicon said:

I remember an Izzy interview where he said about Tel Aviv that he was really looking forward to this and ended up totally ignored by the guys. He said it was like "playing with Zombies "

i can't recall where I read that though... Sorry.

Exactly cos they were fucked up and Axl was Axl

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2 minutes ago, AncientEvil80 said:

People, you're quoting interview with the fucking media, for something that MAY HAVE happened back in 1993, from the mouth of someone who was totally burned out??

Sheesh, who cares. 

If Izzy didn't join this time around is surely because their respective visions didn't quite meet. Once again. Arena's, big tours, jets, pyro's, fucking keyboard players and whatnot ain't what GNR is about, fuck all that crap back then, and even now..

I stand by Izzy's vision. So as much as I enjoy the new shows and am glad to see some of the guys, it ain't GNR to me.

 

Izzy's vision apparently included big paydays to play with that pyro and multiple keyboards in 2006 and 2012.

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Just now, GNRfan2008 said:

Izzy's vision apparently included big paydays to play with that pyro and multiple keyboards in 2006 and 2012.

Apparently? You seen the cheques? Who cares, again. If the money is around, may as well give it to someone who deserves it.

Money, not money. Vision, not vision. To be or not to be. 

Seriously? LMFAO.

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Just now, AncientEvil80 said:

Apparently? You seen the cheques? Who cares, again. If the money is around, may as well give it to someone who deserves it.

Money, not money. Vision, not vision. To be or not to be. 

Seriously? LMFAO.

I'm just pointing out the blatant hypocrisy in putting Izzy on some kind of pedestal when he has played with GN'R in 1993, 2006, and 2012 with all of the bloated stuff you complained about. Izzy sure as hell doesn't need the money. He could easily make a stand for all this integrity you're referring to and simply not show up for those gigs.

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19 minutes ago, AncientEvil80 said:

 

I stand by Izzy's vision. So as much as I enjoy the new shows and am glad to see some of the guys, it ain't GNR to me.

 

Exactly my thoughts to this. 

I'm not sure if I even want Izzy there. It would be cool if he just said "fu** you".

On the other hand he's the only reason for me to completely loose it and pay a fuckn fortune for a show....

And still: my inner 14 year old really don't want to miss the 3 guys on stage...

Damn... I'm torn! ^^

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It's important to note, though, that all this negativity between the band and Izzy in rare quotes stems from the UYI era, and Izzy really hasn't said much at all about the VR "project" sessions, the AFD 20th Ann. thing, etc. I think all of that has been long-reconciled in one way or another.  There's an interview on here (at work - can't pull it up) where Izzy states, "We're all still good friends. We call each other up every couple of weeks."  Another interview not long before that, he talks about still maintaining a small circle of friends from GNR "--even Steven Adler."

It's on YouTube - Three-Part podcast interview.

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On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 5:32 PM, xBrownstonex said:

 

IF Izzy sucked so bad, why did they, Slash in particular, ask for Izzy back?

 

Drug addict rants while high or just angry Izzy left and lashing out...

Izzy sucked so bad, why was Izzy in the original VR sessions?

 

I knew that was crap then and vindicated now...

 

WHERES IZZY... It aint GnR without Izzy, period...

 

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9 hours ago, AncientEvil80 said:

People, you're quoting interview with the fucking media, for something that MAY HAVE happened back in 1993, from the mouth of someone who was totally burned out??

Sheesh, who cares. 

If Izzy didn't join this time around is surely because their respective visions didn't quite meet. Once again. Arena's, big tours, jets, pyro's, fucking keyboard players and whatnot ain't what GNR is about, fuck all that crap back then, and even now..

I stand by Izzy's vision. So as much as I enjoy the new shows and am glad to see some of the guys, it ain't GNR to me.

In that sense GN'R died in 1991 with the new lineup and bloated shows. To me it sort of did. I found the new direction of the band grotesque, with the backup singers, pound-pound-Matt, horn section, Teddy Zigzag, and everything. It didn't align with what I thought GN'R was all about. But it turns out I was wrong - GN'R isn't one particular thing. Gn'R has changed a lot. I just happen to by far prefer the AFD years.

As for Izzy's vision. Axl said something about that, about Izzy's vision being much smaller than Axl's but that Izzy didn't mind reaping the rewards of Axl's vision.

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11 hours ago, GNRfan2008 said:

Izzy's vision apparently included big paydays to play with that pyro and multiple keyboards in 2006 and 2012.

That wasn't Izzy on stage with Guns. Izzy is far too flaky and unreliable to have toured..... or did you miss that memo from the GNR 2016 nutswingers? :lol:

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What the hell, guys? What is this Slash-Axl vs Izzy crap?

Yes, Izzy left the band back then, Slash and Axl were angry and dissapointed but that was TWENTY FIVE YEARS AGO. As far as we KNOW (fn' speculations aside), Izzy is cool with all his former bandmates. When was the last time you heard Slash saying a negative thing about Izzy?

It's a damn shame Izzy is not back and it frustrates me as I love the real GNR more than anything, but we don't know the reasons yet there are all kind of accusations being thrown and some sort of contest to see who's the most unreliable out of these guys.

None of these guys is a saint, none of them is perfect. They had their differences, they all made mistakes and they broke up a few decades ago, but they've been cool to each other for quite some time now. Why should we take sides in a war that doesn't exist and talk shit about the guys we are supposedly fans of?

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16 hours ago, GNRfan2008 said:

I'm just pointing out the blatant hypocrisy in putting Izzy on some kind of pedestal when he has played with GN'R in 1993, 2006, and 2012 with all of the bloated stuff you complained about. Izzy sure as hell doesn't need the money. He could easily make a stand for all this integrity you're referring to and simply not show up for those gigs.

I'm not putting him on a pedestal, I'm just sharing the (probable, eh) same vision that he has for GNR and understand why he wouldn't wanna join that whole thing again.

As for previous appearances in the over-bloated version of GNR - well, supposedly he's a nice human being, so for the sake of old friendship with an Indiana mate, why not do it sporadically? I don't blame him. 

But we're talking about making music here. Not performing a live show with 30-year old tunes.

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On 4/28/2016 at 2:53 AM, SoulMonster said:

Has Axl said Izzy is unreliable? I can't remember him ever saying that. What Axl has said, though, together with Slash and Duff -- they have all agreed on this -- was that Izzy was not willing to put in the effort they felt was needed. Yes, Izzy did show up for gigs (util he quit), but that was all. See my quotes from Slash a couple of posts back.

In so many words, Axl has pointed out that Izzy is not the most reliable person. 

I wouldn't take what Slash said back in the UYI days as gospel. If you hear the '94 rockline interview with Slash and Axl, it's pretty clear Axl's seriously pissed at Izzy for leaving the band. My guess is that if he had his wish to delay the release of UYI, he would have removed Izzy off the album as he did on Spaghetti incident. Axl's infamous for replacing the work of ex-members with whichever replacement is on the payroll at the moment.

There is a great Izzy interview from '92 or '93 where a reporter mentions what Slash has been saying and Izzy replies back (paraphrasing here) "Ahh...that's not Slash talking, that's Axl talking through Slash". Slash only threw Axl under the bus in the press post '94. Before that, he would defend Axl in the press -- and that meant talking shit about Izzy to make it look like Izzy was the one at fault for leaving the band. That and -- Izzy probably left in an abrupt, lousy way which probably pissed the entire band off.

I pretty much take what Slash says with a grain of salt -- and what Axl says with a handful of salt. Only credible members in this band are Izzy and Duff. Duff is a company man -- so he'll basically be diplomatic and not reveal anything. His book has almost zero details about the circumstances for why the band was in such turmoil towards the end aside from some vague/broad stroke comments about why Slash left the band, etc. You have to dig all the way back to his interviews in the late '90's to find out how he actually felt about leaving the band and what made him quit. 

Basically, Izzy is the only guy with the version of the story that is probably closest to the truth -- he's the one with the least to lose by telling the truth.

And I don't for a minute buy that Slash wanted Steven back in the band. He threw Steven under the bus in 1990 and has distanced himself from Adler ever since (aside from a few one-off gigs). I love Slash but he's hardly the guy he portrays himself to be in the media. His behavior in VR (making decisions without consulting the band and basically acting like he was a separate entity from the band, etc) pretty much confirmed for me that he's not quite on the up and up himself. That's why I don't fully discard what Axl says -- he's probably telling some version of the truth, you just have to sift through his bullshit.

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On Friday, April 29, 2016 at 0:48 PM, GNRfan2008 said:

You mean up to the point he quit in 1991. He didn't play every gig that year. And I would not blame the others for being hesitant with him. He had good reasons to quit, but they have good reasons to be hesitant. Izzy made his choice to quit and gave up his rights.

One thing I will say about Axl's reliability is that it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. The man owns the name of the band. There is no GN'R without his involvement and so it simply doesn't matter if he's the most unreliable person on the planet. The other guys easily could have fired him when Alan Niven asked them to back in the late 1980's, but they chose not to...and then they chose to sign off on giving the name to him during the Geffen contract negotiation before UYI was recorded.

They all made their choices and they have to live with the consequences. I assume Izzy doesn't regret quitting. He made a lot of money by the early 1990's and he has been able to do whatever he wants over the last 25 years. Pretty good life I would say.

I remember reading about how they tried or wanted to fire him all the time back then and vice versa. You made many good points but realistically do we think Axl would allow them to keep that name then. It has always been known the name came from him and Traci Gunns putting their name together. 

He didn't have it legally secured at the time but recall when Steven tried to use the name of a band he said he created with Slash and Slash legally stopped him from using it based off the fact he said he came up with the name.

Axl would have had a good case for saying the name came from him at the very least.

So yes for more then one reason there is no Guns and roses without Axl.

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3 hours ago, RONIN said:

In so many words, Axl has pointed out that Izzy is not the most reliable person. 

I wouldn't take what Slash said back in the UYI days as gospel. If you hear the '94 rockline interview with Slash and Axl, it's pretty clear Axl's seriously pissed at Izzy for leaving the band. My guess is that if he had his wish to delay the release of UYI, he would have removed Izzy off the album as he did on Spaghetti incident. Axl's infamous for replacing the work of ex-members with whichever replacement is on the payroll at the moment.

There is a great Izzy interview from '92 or '93 where a reporter mentions what Slash has been saying and Izzy replies back (paraphrasing here) "Ahh...that's not Slash talking, that's Axl talking through Slash". Slash only threw Axl under the bus in the press post '94. Before that, he would defend Axl in the press -- and that meant talking shit about Izzy to make it look like Izzy was the one at fault for leaving the band. That and -- Izzy probably left in an abrupt, lousy way which probably pissed the entire band off.

I pretty much take what Slash says with a grain of salt -- and what Axl says with a handful of salt. Only credible members in this band are Izzy and Duff. Duff is a company man -- so he'll basically be diplomatic and not reveal anything. His book has almost zero details about the circumstances for why the band was in such turmoil towards the end aside from some vague/broad stroke comments about why Slash left the band, etc. You have to dig all the way back to his interviews in the late '90's to find out how he actually felt about leaving the band and what made him quit. 

Basically, Izzy is the only guy with the version of the story that is probably closest to the truth -- he's the one with the least to lose by telling the truth.

And I don't for a minute buy that Slash wanted Steven back in the band. He threw Steven under the bus in 1990 and has distanced himself from Adler ever since (aside from a few one-off gigs). I love Slash but he's hardly the guy he portrays himself to be in the media. His behavior in VR (making decisions without consulting the band and basically acting like he was a separate entity from the band, etc) pretty much confirmed for me that he's not quite on the up and up himself. That's why I don't fully discard what Axl says -- he's probably telling some version of the truth, you just have to sift through his bullshit.

Many great points. 

On the whole Izzy thing I wager it's many things as he said. Izzy mentioned he was clear and some band members, not Axl were a risk to his sobriety. He said when he would show up to record or rehearse they were drunk or high and he wasn't feeling it. On top of that the law suits and his dislike for the tour life and not wanting to sign the new contract Slash and Axl wanted him too. That is where they said he wasn't putting the same effort into the band. He didn't show up to film videos and otber things that were supposed to get done per Axl. 

I bet it bothered Axl they knew each other so long and Axl said Izzy sent a cold short letter over to say he's done. He claimed they then spoke hours crying on the phone pleading etc.

On Slash ironically I just posted an article from one of his band members who said Slash records separately and not with his band. Something Slash and others have criticized Axl for.

My opinion they are all divas in their own way.

Slash has said that Axl doesn't lie and is honest despite if it hurts you. I tend to believe some of what Slash says and much of Axls after I heard him say that. He said that during the seperaration.

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On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 4:07 PM, GNRfan2008 said:

I know it sounds crazy given Axl's antics, but he has been more reliable than Izzy in that regard. And the fact is only one of them quit on the band at the height of their fame. There are consequences that go with this decision. It was likely a good decision for him personally to get away from all the chaos (Axl antics) and substance abuse (Duff/Slash/Matt), but it does come with consequences on the business end of things.

Axl = reliable...

 

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