Jimmy Page and Robert Plant are going to court over the song "Stairway to Heaven"

[moreblack]

It's also odd the guy himself never made a legal stink about it. Only after he died did this come up.

[dalsh327]

From 3:13 on was supposedly another one... 

[classicrawker]

1 hour ago, moreblack said:

It's also odd the guy himself never made a legal stink about it. Only after he died did this come up.

Evidently Wolfe (California) did bitch about back in the mid 90's but never pursued it. I don't find it that odd as the other artists who sued Led Zep over the songs on Led Zep I waited many years before filing their law suits. Let's face it when it comes to business musicians are not very savvy.....Want to know what was at stake?

In 2008, Conde Nast’s Portfolio estimated that “Stairway to Heaven” had generated $562 million in publishing royalties and record sales since its release.

It was not the first time Led Zep was sued for nicking others songs...........These are from Wiki so take them for what they are worth

• On Led Zeppelin's album Led Zeppelin II (1969), parts of the song "Bring It On Home" were copied from Sonny Boy Williamson's 1963 recording of "Bring It On Home," written by Willie Dixon. On the same album, "The Lemon Song" included an adaptation ofHowlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor." In 1972, Arc Music, the publishing arm of Chess Records, brought a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement over "Bring It On Home" and "The Lemon Song"; the case was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.
• Led Zeppelin's song "Whole Lotta Love" contained lyrics that were derivative of Willie Dixon's 1962 song "You Need Love." In 1985, Dixon filed a copyright infringement suit, resulting in an out-of-court settlement. Later pressings of Led Zeppelin II credit Dixon as co-writer.^[24]
• Led Zeppelin also paid a settlement to the publisher of Ritchie Valens' song "Ooh! My Head" over "Boogie with Stu" (from their album Physical Graffiti) which borrowed heavily from Valens' song.^[25]
• Led Zeppelin's song "Dazed and Confused" was derived from a 1967 Jake Holmes song of the same name, which had been performed by Jimmy Page when he was with The Yardbirds.^[38][39] In June 2010, Holmes filed a lawsuit against the guitarist for copyright infringement in a United States District Court, claiming Page knowingly copied his work.^[40] The case was dismissed with prejudice in January 2012 following a stipulation filed by both parties.^[41] The 2012 Led Zeppelin release Celebration Day credits the song to "Jimmy Page, inspired by Jake Holmes".

Rolling Stone does a great job summarizing the case

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/led-zeppelin-prevail-in-stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit-20160623?page=4

 

Edited June 30, 2016 by classicrawker

[Słash]

So Zep won? did they counter sue asking for money? or now the whole thing is over?

[moreblack]

1 hour ago, classicrawker said:

• On Led Zeppelin's album Led Zeppelin II (1969), parts of the song "Bring It On Home" were copied from Sonny Boy Williamson's 1963 recording of "Bring It On Home," written by Willie Dixon. On the same album, "The Lemon Song" included an adaptation ofHowlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor." In 1972, Arc Music, the publishing arm of Chess Records, brought a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement over "Bring It On Home" and "The Lemon Song"; the case was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.
• Led Zeppelin's song "Whole Lotta Love" contained lyrics that were derivative of Willie Dixon's 1962 song "You Need Love." In 1985, Dixon filed a copyright infringement suit, resulting in an out-of-court settlement. Later pressings of Led Zeppelin II credit Dixon as co-writer.^[24]
• Led Zeppelin also paid a settlement to the publisher of Ritchie Valens' song "Ooh! My Head" over "Boogie with Stu" (from their album Physical Graffiti) which borrowed heavily from Valens' song.^[25]
• Led Zeppelin's song "Dazed and Confused" was derived from a 1967 Jake Holmes song of the same name, which had been performed by Jimmy Page when he was with The Yardbirds.^[38][39] In June 2010, Holmes filed a lawsuit against the guitarist for copyright infringement in a United States District Court, claiming Page knowingly copied his work.^[40] The case was dismissed with prejudice in January 2012 following a stipulation filed by both parties.^[41] The 2012 Led Zeppelin release Celebration Day credits the song to "Jimmy Page, inspired by Jake Holmes".

Again though as I said earlier, the successful cases involved words and melodies. Not a common note progression/sequence that Spirit is in no way the sole inventor or user of.

Edited June 30, 2016 by moreblack

[Len Cnut]

5 minutes ago, moreblack said:

Again though as I said earlier, the successful cases involved words and melodies. Not a common note progression/sequence that Spirit is in no way the sole inventor or user of.

Whats your feelings overall about the ones that did involve words and melody and such?  It'd be interesting to hear a Zep fans perspective.  One that ain't prone to chatting shit I mean.

[moreblack]

2 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

Whats your feelings overall about the ones that did involve words and melody and such?  It'd be interesting to hear a Zep fans perspective.  One that ain't prone to chatting shit I mean.

James Patrick was a naughty boy, but doesn't make me enjoy the songs any less, and as a bonus it turned me onto some pretty cool cats like Bert Jansch. Because let's face it, if they don't do what they did, guys like me would've never heard the originals.

[Len Cnut]

Fair play I suppose although I'd like to dispute the notion that i got into the blues cuz of Zeppelin!  I got into the blues cuz of John Lee Hooker.  I get your point though.

EDIT: apologies, i thought that said guys like me and you!

Edited June 30, 2016 by Len B'stard

[moreblack]

1 minute ago, Len B'stard said:

Fair play I suppose although I'd like to dispute the notion that i got into the blues cuz of Zeppelin!  I got into the blues cuz of John Lee Hooker.  I get your point though.

EDIT: apologies, i thought that said guys like me and you!

I don't think anyone would lump us together ever. Other than the love of football, music and booze.

 

[classicrawker]

2 hours ago, moreblack said:

Again though as I said earlier, the successful cases involved words and melodies. Not a common note progression/sequence that Spirit is in no way the sole inventor or user of.

I don't disagree Black and that was one of the points the defense successfully used but it does not change the fact  that there  is a decent chance Jimmy nicked that opening riff.....Besides his history of that sort of thing, if you read the Rolling Stone article Jimmy evidently had a copy of the Spirit album which had the song Taurus on it in his collection but had no idea how it go there stating someone must have left it there......yeah sure officer and that kilo of ganja in my trunk does not belong to me..must have been left there by someone.....

 

[moreblack]

Can't say they didn't have their chance to prove it. 

[classicrawker]

23 minutes ago, moreblack said:

Can't say they didn't have their chance to prove it. 

true enough...I would loved to have been on that jury.......

[wasted]

9 hours ago, classicrawker said:

Actually there evidently are ways to prove if someone nicked someone else's music as there have been numerous lawsuits to that effect and Jimmy has been sued in the past where he had to pay up.

.Sure Jimmy could have come up with the riff but the fact that he has nicked other peoples music in the past and was forced to pay up and that Zep toured with Spirit before Stairway was written makes it very suspicious...........I agree California's estates claim is shaky due to the fact that it is only the opening riff but IMHO they sound suspiciously similar.....The fact that it was only the opening riff was one of the reasons California's estate  claim failed...........whether that would entitle California's estate to compensation was questionable and the court decided there was no merit in the claim.

I am guessing Weiland has an estate which will continue to get royalties after his death they could sue the dead mans estate if it can be proven music was stolen............

To me then it's getting ridiculous. At this point every riff can be found somewhere. Also due to the sloppiness and nature of their job and lifestyles where co-habitation and jamming are involved who knows the intentions of one or the other. That's why I think the full song needs to ripped off. Maybe if they can prove that the part taken led to loss of earnings. Given the context it seems like a cash grab and smears the name of a successful band. I'm sure Zepp could sue a lot of bands. I haven't heard much from Spirit in the media. They should be ashamed. 

[moreblack]

On 7/1/2016 at 11:49 PM, wasted said:

I'm sure Zepp could sue a lot of bands.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/12-artists-who-ripped-off-led-zeppelin-20160623

Not sure about lawsuits, but you can definitely hear the Zep in all these.

[wasted]

I feel like Achilles Last Stand invented Maiden's entire career. 

[moreblack]

On 7/2/2016 at 1:08 PM, wasted said:

I feel like Achilles Last Stand invented Maiden's entire career. 

It's funny, Maiden definitely sounds like Maiden. They've clearly established their own signature sound and identity in music. But if you know what Steve and the other guys were into, you can see very clearly where they got a lot of stuff from.

[wasted]

5 hours ago, moreblack said:

It's funny, Maiden definitely sounds like Maiden. They've clearly established their own signature sound and identity in music. But if you know what Steve and the other guys were into, you can see very clearly where they got a lot of stuff from.

What are they into? The whole of NWOBHM seems based on a few bands. It's about origins not development of ideas. Nothing is orginal. 

The point being Zepp invented a whole way of doing things that many bands have benefited from. But it's more like production values and style than something musically orginal. But they get sued for some generic chords they may have appropriated. The line in the sand seems to be where someone can else can make money off it. 

Tigers of Pan Tang should sue hair metal for everything. 

Edited July 5, 2016 by wasted
Tigers rule

[Cosmo]

Lol if Zep sues anyone for plagiarism, it'd be the most ironic thing in the world. Led Zep I is ripoff frankenstein. Don't get me wrong. I love Led Zeppelin.

[JeanGenie]

I know led zep ripped off some songs but it's not right to judge their entire work based on plagiarism. Funny that the beatles are getting away with it and zep isnt.

[Cosmo]

3 hours ago, JeanGenie said:

I know led zep ripped off some songs but it's not right to judge their entire work based on plagiarism. Funny that the beatles are getting away with it and zep isnt.

I'm not saying their entire work is based on plagiarism, I'm just saying they should be open to the concept of creative commons and influences in general since they pushed it to the limit. They certainly can't point any fingers.

[moreblack]

13 hours ago, wasted said:

What are they into? The whole of NWOBHM seems based on a few bands. It's about origins not development of ideas. Nothing is orginal. 

There's a reason Maiden plays stadiums to this day and most of the NWOBHM bands don't exist anymore. They left that scene behind pretty much as soon as they released the Beast-7th Son string of albums. They just had more in the tank, that's down in no small part to the stuff they were into. UFO was big with them, Harris worshiped Pete Way even as far as copying the stripey black and white trousers, and they did a few memorable-ish heavy gallop oriented songs. They got the twin harmony thing from Wishbone Ash. They probably got a good amount of the fast and heavy thing from early Priest and Motorhead. They had their proggy side from the get go, not so mellow like Genesis, heavier like Rush. You watch Janick throw the guitar around and that's straight out of the Blackmore school.

[wasted]

6 hours ago, moreblack said:

There's a reason Maiden plays stadiums to this day and most of the NWOBHM bands don't exist anymore. They left that scene behind pretty much as soon as they released the Beast-7th Son string of albums. They just had more in the tank, that's down in no small part to the stuff they were into. UFO was big with them, Harris worshiped Pete Way even as far as copying the stripey black and white trousers, and they did a few memorable-ish heavy gallop oriented songs. They got the twin harmony thing from Wishbone Ash. They probably got a good amount of the fast and heavy thing from early Priest and Motorhead. They had their proggy side from the get go, not so mellow like Genesis, heavier like Rush. You watch Janick throw the guitar around and that's straight out of the Blackmore school.

I see all that being taken from Zepp in the first place. But I suppose you can just keep going back and back. Fast, heavy galloping rock songs must have crystalized in Achilles Last Stand. Not all Maiden songs are like that but I associate them with that. I'm not sure metal would be the same without Zepp. Whereas Spirit are just trying to scab momey and make it seem like Zepp stole everything. The difference they created with what they stole and their impact was huge. The point wasn't to belittle Maiden. 

[moreblack]

Now it looks like Zep's rep want their legal fees paid for by Spirit's lawyer.

http://teamrock.com/news/2016-07-10/led-zeppelin-publishers-seek-613-000-for-stairway-trial

Edited July 11, 2016 by moreblack

[classicrawker]

Lawyer who sued Led Zep had his licese suspended for being an arsehole........

http://www.nme.com/news/led-zeppelin/94720

 

So I was listening to the late 60's early 70's band  It's A Beautiful Day's first album and was amazed how Deep Purple "borrowed" their song "Bombay Calling" for the DP song "Child in Time". Now IMHO there is a layup winnable  lawsuit if I ever saw one......

 

 

[PappyTron]

My favourite plagiarism case will always be that Bob Marley ripped Buffalo Soldier off of The Banana Splits: