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What the hell is up with song temps?


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35 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

What? Where did I say ''just play AFD''? Dizzy can still hang around if he wants - I am not proposing sacking Dizzy; I personally think he is a wanker but you need somebody to handle the secondary keyboard stuff and he has done that for a very long time.

So you are ok with Adler playing Sorum's UYI parts?

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10 hours ago, tsinindy said:

I agree with you on everything here...except you'll never be able to recapture that.   Twenty years have passed.  That was a magical time for so many reasons, but it will never be duplicated simply due to the passing of time.  Could things be better in certain ways...yes.   Will it be 1991 all over again?  No

it will never be 1987 or 1991 again but get the five guys* together and you have fucking greatness

if they are smart, they will get together, write new songs, record them and perform them live 

 

* if you cant get steven get at least axl izzy slash duff and a drummer

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also Tom. Like Gilby like Ridhard is a lead guitarist. He said it himself back 1999 when he released his Swag record and chatted online with fans. He said he was never just a rhythm guitarist when a fan showed appreciation for his lead guitar playing. He was lead in His band Candy before joining GN'R Candy had some success on the strip. 

Outside of Izzy returning full time which will never happen Fortus is the next best thing. I think he has the best take on Izzy's Nightrain solo. Closer to how Izzy played it than Gilby or Sidoris. And Richard never made a stink about playing rhythm to the other guitarists in nu-guns 

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3 hours ago, Top-Hatted One said:

The sudden change of tempo in the middle of songs now is on Frank and his nerves/getting caught up in the moment and fan reaction etc. Also Frank isn't in position to add hi-hats and such to signature gnr backbeats like he does during WTTJ.

I love drums. The groove is the  the first thing that wins me over when I discover new bands but it is different with GN'R. A GNR drummer needs understand his role. There is too much talent and dynamic on stage between Axl and the 2 guitars to be free lancing and overplaying drum fills.

Sorum understood this better than anyone. And while I've always been critical of his straight forward playing in all his projects with Slash & Duff I've really come to appreciate his approach now. Thanks to Frank.

I've come to the realization that it wasn't Matt who was responsible for the lack of dynamic in VR songs and how the rockers on those albums are the same tempo. Just plug in and chug chug chug along. This wasn't Sorum but the fact that Izzy wasn't there to counter Slashes playing. No interplay between the 2 guitars and of course no Axl. You see a lot of the same chugging along on some UYI tracks where Izzy presence was non existent and people blame Sorum's drumming. Slash isn't doing anything different than he was during AFD. When you listen in your headphones Slash is still doing his thing in your right speaker while Izzy is doing something completely different and cool in your left ear to compliment Slash. Dave Kusher has that dynamic with Slash at times albeit with a modern twist. 

That is one of Major gripes with some of the Conspirator songs as well. Slash seems content being the only guitar player in studio. Again this started when they were recording UYI. For a clear illustration of what I mean just listen to Slash's song 'Ghost' which Izzy played on and helped write way back when he was involved in the 'The Project' days. The coolness that we hadn't seen since GNR is there and Slash admitted it himself how something special happens when him and Izzy play off each other in studio

You nailed it.

But here is more.

When Izzy is onboard, there are better (killer) song structures, chord changes, crescendos... the whole dynamic changes and it gets so much better

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20 minutes ago, Top-Hatted One said:

also Tom. Like Gilby like Ridhard is a lead guitarist. He said it himself back 1999 when he released his Swag record and chatted online with fans. He said he was never just a rhythm guitarist when a fan showed appreciation for his lead guitar playing. He was lead in His band Candy before joining GN'R Candy had some success on the strip. 

Outside of Izzy returning full time which will never happen Fortus is the next best thing. I think he has the best take on Izzy's Nightrain solo. Closer to how Izzy played it than Gilby for Sidoris. And Richard never made a stink about playing rhythm to the other guitarists in nu-guns 

Gilby may have been a lead guitarist in Candy but he took on the role of rhythm in Gn'R.... His guitars weren't louder than Slash's unlike Fortus, Gilby learned Izzy's parts and stayed pretty damn close to them. That includes Nightrain that he played pretty close to Izzy's take on the album. Richard's sounds nothing like it and he is showboating. Same on Rocket Queen, he tries to make the rhythm parts his own and along with Frank straight up ruins one of the greatest rock songs of all time. He may have been a great fit in NuGnR but I am not a fan of him along side Slash.. I don't even like his tone and effects on songs like It's So Easy.. Gilby also sand good backing vocals.. 

Not sure what any of this has to do with the awful tempo they have been performing songs at but I figured I'd reply.

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2 hours ago, Top-Hatted One said:

I don't  think that's very realistic 

Well he'll have to keep up with the changes in Coma but I have it on an authority from a drummer friend that there is nothing particularly demanding about the drumming in Guns N' Roses, Illusion era included. Adler has played Perfect Crime, Don't Cry, Back off Bitch and Civil War live (there are bootlegs). He has rehearsed (and perhaps recorded) You Could Be Mine. He has rehearsed Locomotive, Don't Damn Me, Dust N' Bones and Garden of Eden; we can listen to this ourselves (I think he sounds great here). There is more evidence that Adler can play the Illusion material well, than the reverse.

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Fortus volume needs to be turned up when he covers Bucketheads faster solos but if he is freelancing on classic songs then I agree he should be more like Gilby and take a step back. I havent heard him over step any of Slash's solos or key riffs. Richard is doing fine. He isn't a distraction like Frank's playing clearly has been 

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Maybe Axl thinks Slash requested to speed up the songs and he doesn't want to say anything to not spoil the moment. And maybe Slash thinks that was an order from Axl and since he's the "new" one, he'll remain silent. And Duff is like "It must be Slash or Axl's. What the hell, they're legends". And out-of-tempo Ferrer is just like "I just wanna go home as fast as I can."

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5 hours ago, smoking guns said:

Richard is too loud and should only be loud when he solos. But his solo volume is louder than Slash's and it pisses me off. 

IF this is the case (and I personally haven't seen any evidence of this, but I'm not saying it isn't true), it's  the guys at the mixing desk who are at fault, not Fortus. 

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11 hours ago, Slash787 said:

True, Matt has gotten much better and his style now has changed for the better. 

He should have been there instead of Frank. 

Brent Snape Fitz does an amazing job on the drums too. 

Yeah, if Steven is such a no-go, Matt would have been the better option. Fitz too, but I wouldn't want this messing with the Cons.

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I've enjoyed reading this thread, especially the opinions of real musicians and not just fans of music. 

My only concern is that the band has never listened to the fans so why are they gonna start now?!

It's like AC/DC choosing Axl, 95% of online fan opinion hates it, but the band is gonna go ahead and do what they want to. 

That's how I see 2016, at the very least, panning out for this iteration of GN'R so I think we best all get used to the changes as well as the current personnel.  

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5 hours ago, uncivil war said:

IF this is the case (and I personally haven't seen any evidence of this, but I'm not saying it isn't true), it's  the guys at the mixing desk who are at fault, not Fortus. 

It must be Richard's boy doing the mixing then because it has been happening since they first played It's SO Easy at the Troubador :/

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On April 17, 2016 at 2:23 PM, RussTCB said:

I didn't notice the tempo at all when I was at the show, but when I listened back to my recording I was like "Damn, that's fast" on more than a few songs. When I clicked on PC from Coachella, I was stunned at how fast Slash was playing the intro. Overall, I don't mind the uptempo feel, but I can see how people are bothered by it. 

This has nothing to do with Frank. He's playing to the click track that is set to exactly the tempo that GN'R wants to do these songs.

When did I say anything about click tracks or tempos being solely on frank? But I garauntee people will notice a definite difference in overall song performance and tempo with the addition of someone who's natural groove fits what he's playing and not trying to replicate something. 

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I've been noticing this ever since the NITL tour started, but tonight it just disgusted me. Ever since Slash returned to the band, they've been making a point to DRAMATICALLY raise the tempo on almost every song on the setlist. Particularly, Paradise City and New Rose were both sped up to the point that they sounded like parodies. It's like I'm listening to GNR on fast-forward.

And before you blame it on Frank, a few things to consider.

-Frank has been in the band for 10 years. For 8 of those years, he's played the songs at a normal tempo.

-Slash has been playing the GNR songs at a ridiculous tempo at his own solo shows for years now

-Slash opens PC with a ridiculously fast riff, before any drums or bass come in. He decides the tempo of the song, and intentionally makes it fast as shit.

It's a major problem and needs to be brought to attention.

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6 minutes ago, bacardimayne said:

The intro to KOHD is played so fast that I initially thought it was Paradise City.

Ha, Yup. Ive been fooled into almost saying, "what? Paradise City so Early in the set?" lol

 

PC is definitely way too fast. Not even with the Conspirators its that fast, because Brent Fitz doesnt follow Slash's tempo. He's the Metronome that the drummer is supposed to be in bands. 

Hopefully its something they'll fix for the summer tour

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Yes, I had the same issue when Slash performed some Gn'R songs with his band.  Now with Guns, though, it's just too damn fast.

Some songs that are ruined by this shit decision:

- Don't Cry
- November Rain
- Paradise City
- Yesterdays
- Civil War

I'm thinking that's Slash's decision and fault.  That doesn't take away that Frank is a mediocre drummer, tho.

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