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Richard has been in GNR for 16 years quote


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Why is it a big deal that Richard and Frank are there, but it wasn't a big deal when Gilby and Matt were there? All things being equal, they're all replacements, but I don't see near the amount of negativity towards Gilby or Matt that is leveled toward Richard and Frank. From a technical point of view, if Matt and Gilby are GN'R, then Richard and Frank should be considered such too. 

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6 hours ago, madison said:

If Matt didn't play a key role in the band's success, he would never have been inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame as a band member.

You keep relying on this same fucking line. I think you used it three or four times alone in just this thread. It's your argument crutch and it's a logical fallacy to begin with.

So the RNR HOF is the final determination in who is a "real band member" and who is a "hired hand"? Who determines that? Who gives the RNR HOF the sorcery to say "you, but not you"?

Newsflash: The RNR HOF doesn't turn opinion into fact. It's still opinion whether Richard is a hired hand, a real member and the same thin for Sorum.

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Also, the band was already mega huge before Matt came into the picture...His presence had a negligible effect on their level of success. It wasn't like legions of music fans jumped on board because Matt Sorum joined. Actually, the UYI records sold less than Appetite, so if you want to use sales as an argument, one could say Matt's presence actually theoretically could have hurt the band. That's not my argument obviously, but I'm just saying...Using Matt being inducted into the HoF because he contributed to the band's success is a stretch. Every single member who has been in Guns has contributed to the success to greater and lesser degrees. Paul Huge played on the Slash & Duff era band's last single...So, by sheer virtue of his presence, he contributed to Guns having a hit single in 1994.

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7 hours ago, Gun Shy Assassin said:

When I saw Guns' in Vegas on the 9th, I was ecstatic to see the "core 3" together after more than 2 decades, but I'd be lying if i were to say that I didn't feel like Richard and Frank contributed to killing some of the energy of that show. Frank's drumming was abysmal, and Richard, while technically proficient, looked out of place and just plain silly when coupled with the alumni. Seriously, how many times can you punch your guitar?

Oh my god.. I was in Vegas and this post is perfect

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24 minutes ago, HeartbreakerWoman said:

Why is it a big deal that Richard and Frank are there, but it wasn't a big deal when Gilby and Matt were there? 

Because Matt and Gilby fit in and had instant musical chemistry.. They were GREAT live..

This band.. While there have been great moments, not so much.. I would attribute that mostly to Frank and Fortus. They may have been great in NuGuns but standards are higher now.

 

 

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I was actually excited about the Fortus/Slash combo. 

I haven't seen them live yet but from videos I don't feel like they gel.... maybe they have to do some writing or it's just a matter of playing more shows together. Like the Wish You Were Here last night at Coachella... it sucked IMO (relatively speaking of course, they're amazing musicians). I just didn't feel it at all. Meanwhile I watch Gilby and Slash do Tokyo's Wild Horses all the time.... and I'm not pining for Gilby's return or anything, Axl can't write with him so it's a dead end... but just saying. 

It's reminding me of when they talked about getting Dave Navarro in GNR in the 90's.... acknowledging he was a great guitarist but saying ultimately it was two lead players and it didn't work. And Zakk Wylde.

 

Edited by Ant
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8 hours ago, Nosaj Thing said:

Never.

If this incarnation can write the GNR equivalent of Some Girls with Fortus, in keeping with the Ron Wood analogy, then he'll get the respect.... but not until some essential GNR material bears his name. 

Edited by Ant
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8 hours ago, LADoll77 said:

agreed. it is disrespectful and inappropriate.

I really thought Axl had woken up and realized that NuGnr was a solo project.

yes, Fortus is better than DJ, but it would have been better to start GNR again  with a clean slate without any Nu members.

 

I think it's actually worked well with Melissa. Two more new faces could have freshened things up even further.

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15 minutes ago, HeartbreakerWoman said:

Was Matt Sorum a hired hand? Gilby Clarke?

Yes, they were. GNR had five members (Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy & Steven), and now have three. This picture THEY posted sums it up well.

12940703_968277426601987_1947124444_n.jp

All the other guys were hired guns. Some of them (like Matt and Richard IMO) were/are better than others (Pitman, Paul Huge, DJ, Frank).

And as much as I love Matt, I think the idea of him being key to GNR success is nonsense. Any decent drummer would have made it work with the amazing songs and the success they already had. Maybe it would have sounded a bit worse with someone else, or maybe better but those albums were gonna be amazing regardless of the drummer. In fact, I'm sure I would like those albums better if Steven was able to play on them.

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16 minutes ago, Ant said:

Like the Wish You Were Here last night at Coachella... it sucked IMO (relatively speaking of course, they're amazing musicians). I just didn't feel it at all. Meanwhile I watch Gilby and Slash do Tokyo's Wild Horses all the time.... and I'm not pining for Gilby's return or anything, Axl can't write with him so it's a dead end... but just saying. 

It's reminding me of when they talked about getting Dave Navarro in GNR in the 90's.... acknowledging he was a great guitarist but saying ultimately it was two lead players and it didn't work. And Zakk Wylde.

 

This is exactly how I feel

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41 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Because Matt and Gilby fit in and had instant musical chemistry.. They were GREAT live..

This band.. While there have been great moments, not so much.. I would attribute that mostly to Frank and Fortus. They may have been great in NuGuns but standards are higher now.

 

 

Gilby was barely audible most of the time. He looked good but sonically...His contribution with Slash gave us It's Five O'Clock Somewhere...Not exactly the most inspiring material, especially when you consider that they wrote it for GN'R. Matt sounded like a drum machine live. He is the weak link of the UYIs along with Axl's stupid overdubs and killed the AFD songs live to a much greater degree than Frank ever could. The swinging intro of Brownstone became a thud, thud, thud da da thud chug with Matt, for example. The entire rhythm of the band changed with Matt. Gone was the sloppy, punky vibe of 1988 and in its place was an overly precise lineup. Even Izzy didn't like him. Frank isn't perfect, but at least he's not a masher like Matt was. Matt turned a punk/metal/hard rock band into a pure metal act.

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26 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Yes, they were. GNR had five members (Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy & Steven), and now have three. This picture THEY posted sums it up well.

12940703_968277426601987_1947124444_n.jp

All the other guys were hired guns. Some of them (like Matt and Richard IMO) were/are better than others (Pitman, Paul Huge, DJ, Frank).

And as much as I love Matt, I think the idea of him being key to GNR success is nonsense. Any decent drummer would have made it work with the amazing songs and the success they already had. Maybe it would have sounded a bit worse with someone else, or maybe better but those albums were gonna be amazing regardless of the drummer. In fact, I'm sure I would like those albums better if Steven was able to play on them.


If you ignore the 1996-2014 era, GN'R has been a three member band in practice since 1989. Read Duff's book. Izzy contributed lyrics, melodies and songs to the UYIs but stopped being a day-to-day member of the band or part of the decision making process long before he actually quit. He basically had already in a sense quit the band long before November 1991. It's why Slash had to double up for him on most of the UYIs. Once GN'R became a stadium act full of junkies and egos, and when Steven got the boot and Matt came in and changed the sound, Izzy lost interest.
 

Axl, 1992: "I read in an interview where Matt [Sorum, drummer] said that if he didn't get made a member, he wasn't going to be in Guns N' Roses. The truth of the matter is, Matt's a member of GN'R, but it doesn't really mean anything. It's kind of like a clubhouse/gang thing. We're all members of this gang. What it boils down to is, whose yard is the tree house in? Matt's a member of GN'R, and his opinions are taken into consideration. As far as that's concerned, Gilby is a member too, Dizzy is a member of the band. With all the background singers, horn players, keyboardists - we look at it like we're all Guns N' Roses. But the bottom line is, the business is basically run by Slash and myself. Then we run whatever it is we're discussing by Duff and see if he's cool with it. Guns N' Roses is basically Slash, Duff, Doug Goldstein and myself, but there's a lot of other people involved that are a part of our lives and a part of our family."

Edited by HeartbreakerWoman
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Quote

 

The 16 year comment came off to me as a slightly veiled jab at Slash, who is probably a little insecure about the whole guitar arrangement in the band right now. Fortus is a great player who, from a purely technical standpoint, is more advanced than Slash...while Slash is a one in a million classic player, because of his unique style, tone, compositions, etc. I have never seen Slash in a regular band situation where he is not the sole lead player, the fact that they are more of a dual lead guitar player band now, is a major concession for him.  All IMO, of course...

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37 minutes ago, BlackHoleGravity said:

The 16 year comment came off to me as a slightly veiled jab at Slash, who is probably a little insecure about the whole guitar arrangement in the band right now. Fortus is a great player who, from a purely technical standpoint, is more advanced than Slash...while Slash is a one in a million classic player, because of his unique style, tone, compositions, etc. I have never seen Slash in a regular band situation where he is not the sole lead player, the fact that they are more of a dual lead guitar player band now, is a major concession for him.  All IMO, of course...

Richard has quite a bluesy style actually....And yes, Slash has...Izzy played rhythm and leads on AFD and they switched solos and lead parts on the AFD tour. Listen to the multitracks of Welcome to the Jungle one day, for example. You'll find almost all of the lead work on it is by Izzy. Izzy does the lead work as well as the main solos on Jungle...He also played lead and did the solo on Think About You and I am sure several other songs on AFD. GN'R as of 1986-1987 was a band where while Slash was "the" lead guitarist in name, you had on record and live essentially two lead players switching between lead and rhythm, kind of the way Keith Richards and Ronnie Wood do it live. It's not a situation where it's Slash and some overpowered, monster lead guy like Zakk Wylde...Richard is much closer to Izzy in that he is a rhythm guy who can also do leads and solos...It's a very similar dynamic to that of AFD.

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