Richard has been in GNR for 16 years quote

[SoulMonster]

The way I see it there was some confusion in the beginning when only Axl, Duff and Slash was shown to be part of the lineup. Maybe they could have gone out and stated it would be a hybrid lineup? Maybe they didn't because they were still negotiating with Izzy? Maybe people shouldn't be so stupid as to think it would be a full lineup reunion when only three of the guys were shown?

Did the band benefit from the media either failing to understand this wasn't a full reunion or deliberately misrepresenting it as such? Yes, sure, but Izzy came out and denied being involved with it pretty early on, and Richard and Frank confirmed on FB they were in. So I also find it a bit hard to criticise the band for this. And naggign about it now is a bit whiny.

[tsinindy]

6 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

It took me a minute, but I was finally able to find this:
https://www.ispot.tv/ad/A5_t/guns-n-roses-seattle-concert

To me, that makes it very clear that only Axl, Slash & Duff will be there from the original lineup.

Actually that makes it clear that you should only expect Axl, Slash and Duff...there will obviously be others.  But you're getting these three dudes for sure.  That's the way this has been marketed and promoted from the get-go and nothing has changed.

[Padme]

2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

It took me a minute, but I was finally able to find this:
https://www.ispot.tv/ad/A5_t/guns-n-roses-seattle-concert

To me, that makes it very clear that only Axl, Slash & Duff will be there from the original lineup.

See, we don't have Dizzy, Frank and Richard at all in that add. So it's not marketed with the current line up you put it. Think about it we knew that Izzy was not going to be part of the past shows because he told us. GN'R camp didn't say a word. And with Adler being so silent we took it a hint of a possible participation. Until we saw the band on stage things look kinda open, certanly not 100 % clear

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Padme said:

See, we don't have Dizzy, Frank and Richard at all in that add. So it's not marketed with the current line up you put it. Think about it we knew that Izzy was not going to be part of the past shows because he told us. GN'R camp didn't say a word. And with Adler being so silent we took it a hint of a possible participation. Until we saw the band on stage things look kinda open, certanly not 100 % clear

How could it be "kinda open" when Izzy went out and publicly stated he wouldn't be there and Richard and Frank confirmed on FB they would be in??

You might argue that it is not 100 % clear for the rest of the gigs since Izzy just said he wouldn't be there for the April gigs. But surely if Izzy and Steven are to return, don't you think the band would market this to boost sales even further? Doesn't that make sense?

[Padme]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

How could it be "kinda open" when Izzy went out and publicly stated he wouldn't be there and Richard and Frank confirmed on FB they would be in??

You might argue that it is not 100 % clear for the rest of the gigs since Izzy just said he wouldn't be there for the April gigs. But surely if Izzy and Steven are to return, don't you think the band would market this to boost sales even further? Doesn't that make sense?

I'm saying that before Izzy's public comments things were not clear. Further more even after Izzy's comments people still hope to see him in Vegas or Coachella, the same with Adler. We have information that Adler participated in rehearsals

But my original point was that Russ claimed there are T.V. add showing Axl, Slash and Duff and the current line up. That's not the case, at least not in the add he posted

[tsinindy]

8 minutes ago, Padme said:

I'm saying that before Izzy's public comments things were not clear. Further more even after Izzy's comments people still hope to see him in Vegas or Coachella, the same with Adler. We have information that Adler participated in rehearsals

But my original point was that Russ claimed there are T.V. add showing Axl, Slash and Duff and the current line up. That's not the case, at least not in the add he posted

You are right, the band has not marketed anyone for this other than Axl, Slash and Duff.

That was and is being done intently, and will continue.  With what intent is it being done?  That isn't so clear to me, other than it's obviously working and does leave the door open for others to come in (and out) of the band if need be.

Edited April 26, 2016 by tsinindy

[The Glow Inc.]

You know what you guys should do ?

You should go straight to Slash and Duff's faces and tell them  " this isn't GnR ".

Then you watch their non-reaction.

 

[Tom-Ass]

1 minute ago, The Glow Inc. said:

You should go straight to Slash and Duff's faces and tell them  " this isn't GnR ".

Then you watch their non-reaction.

 

They know but are getting too much $$ to care anymore.

[HeartbreakerWoman]

46 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

They know but are getting too much $$ to care anymore.

If this "isn't GN'R" and is worse than NuGNR and is a fake tribute band, why did you go to the Vegas show? 

[Tom-Ass]

Just now, HeartbreakerWoman said:

If this "isn't GN'R" and is worse than NuGNR and is a fake tribute band, why did you go to the Vegas show? 

You must be quoting the wrong person.  I never said the was "worse than NuGnR". Also never called it a "fake tribute band".  Don't put words in my mouth and take a fucking hike..

 

[Gun Shy Assassin]

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I'm not sure what else they could do to let people know who's in the band outside of running TV ads that show each member of the band. 

My thing is this; I'm one of the first people to call Axl & GN'R out when I think they're doing something deceptive or just plain fucking up. I've been very vocal about what a rip-off I think Nightrain is. I've been very critical of pretty much everything that's been done since 2001 for that matter. I just don't think this is one of those times where they need to be called out though. Izzy himself came out and said he woudn't be in Vegas and some people still posted that they were disappointed that he didn't show up. How is that GN'Rs fault? 

Honestly, there's no way for any of us to know if they are or are not saying anything because they think it'll hurt sales. Personally, I like to think that they aren't saying anything because they don't need to. I get the other side of that argument though, so that's why I just kinda bowed out of the thread. Because there's just no way for any of us to know for sure one way or the other.

Fair enough, I suppose. I agree that it's not possible to say with certainty what the band's motivation is, although I believe $$$ is probably driving a lot of the decision making. My point of contention is with those who are insisting that it's clear as day who's in this lineup (from a general public perspective), and that one would have to be "stupid" to not know who's in or who's out. I'm trying to understand the agendas of those who are attempting to portray the narrative that GNR were "very clear" about who would be part of the touring lineup and who wouldn't.

 

With that said, there are things that the band (Axl) could have done to let their fans and the GP know who "exactly" the lineup would consist of. In fact, one interview (either print or tv) where Axl clarified who was in and who was out would have sufficed, IMO. To me, the commercial that you are speaking of is pretty vague and leaves a lot to the imagination, which I'm sure Axl doesn't mind because, let's face it, the more people think that this is a full-reunion, the more tickets will sell.

 

If Axl doesn't want to be bothered with questions from reputable tabloids, he could have done another Del interview, where he actually clarified the lineup, and it would have spread to RS, Spin, Classic Rock etc. by the following morning. The question is, why didn't he take that more direct, leave nothing to the imagination route? The only logical explanation that I can come up with is $$$$.

[Rovim]

Why would Steven not throw a tantrum why? Izzy's status is unknown, I don't know if they pissed him off with not offering him to be a part of the partnership or he wasn't into it or what but there's always a chance he'll do some live shows with them or even help out in the studio.

But Fortus and Frank seems to be a permanent part of the line up. I don't believe Adler and Izzy can fulfill Guns duties full time.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Gun Shy Assassin said:

Fair enough, I suppose. I agree that it's not possible to say with certainty what the band's motivation is, although I believe $$$ is probably driving a lot of the decision making. My point of contention is with those who are insisting that it's clear as day who's in this lineup (from a general public perspective), and that one would have to be "stupid" to not know who's in or who's out. I'm trying to understand the agendas of those who are attempting to portray the narrative that GNR were "very clear" about who would be part of the touring lineup and who wouldn't

Of course they are motivated by money, this is a nostalgia cash-grab tour. They haven't reunited because they are best friends forever again, or because they have some killer songs they want to write and release to the world. This is old rockers with falling careers not being able to say no to a large pile of money.

I don't think anyone has claimed anyone was stupid for not knowing who were in the band when the first shows were announced. Back then we only knew of Axl, Slash and Duff. Then Izzy denied being involved and Frank and Richard confirmed they were in. If anyone now don't get who is in the band they are either not paying attention or a bit slow on the uptake.

 

[Gun Shy Assassin]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The way I see it there was some confusion in the beginning when only Axl, Duff and Slash was shown to be part of the lineup. Maybe they could have gone out and stated it would be a hybrid lineup? Maybe they didn't because they were still negotiating with Izzy? Maybe people shouldn't be so stupid as to think it would be a full lineup reunion when only three of the guys were shown?

 

So, what if all someone only saw was the classic lineup billboards that are being posted in major cities and/or the Star Wars advertisement? I never saw any commercial until today (which still doesn't clarify much, IMO). Do you feel that the billboards and Star Wars promo clarify that Izzy and Steven will not be taking part? Both gave myself and others the impression that they would be. And I don't consider myself and others that I know to be "stupid" people, as you have suggested.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Gun Shy Assassin

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, Gun Shy Assassin said:

So, what if all someone only saw was the classic lineup billboards that are being posted in major cities and/or the Star Wars advertisement? I never saw any commercial until today (which still doesn't clarify much, IMO). Do you feel that the billboards and Star Wars promo clarify that Izzy and Steven will not be taking part. Both gave myself and others the impression that they would be. And I don't consider myself and others that I know to be "stupid" people, as you have suggested.

You thought it would be a full AFD or UYI reunion lineup despite only Axl, Slash and Duff being promoted and despite the promotion not using the lineup word? Really?

I think the glaring absence of Izzy and Steven in the promotions STRONGLY suggest they will probably not be there, and I think the 6 shows that have featured a hybrid lineup STRONGLY suggest that's the lineup that will also do the remaining shows of the tour, and I think the band signing with all their names in the condolance letter to the Mexican fan further establishes THAT as the current lineup. If anyone still thinks Izzy and Steven is part of the band for more than occasional guest apparences, then that is nothing but wishful thinking based on nothing but dreams.

Edited April 26, 2016 by SoulMonster
Removed insult

[RussTCB]

There's no need to call anyone stupid @SoulMonster.

 

I had some friends with the opposite stance. I asked if they wanted to Guns and the reply was "Nah, I'm good with seeing them the one time unless they ever get Slash back". 

So they didn't even know Slash was back even with the marketing. These people are intelligent and they made the flip side of the same mistake. 

Either way, personal insults are against the forum rules and you're aware of that so please make your arguments without resorting to that. 

[Gun Shy Assassin]

10 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Of course they are motivated by money, this is a nostalgia cash-grab tour.

 

Ok, so you are finally conceding that this is a "reunion" tour and that Axl's primary motivation is likely money. That's about all that I was trying to get you to concede. And you finally did. Thanks.

[Gun Shy Assassin]

4 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

There's no need to call anyone stupid @SoulMonster.

 

I had some friends with the opposite stance. I asked if they wanted to Guns and the reply was "Nah, I'm good with seeing them the one time unless they ever get Slash back".

So they didn't even know Slash was back even with the marketing. These people are intelligent and they made the flip side of the same mistake.

Either way, personal insults are against the forum rules and you're aware of that so please make your arguments without resorting to that.

Thanks for addressing the insults that are being thrown around, Russtcb. It's a lot more enjoyable to converse with other fans when resulting to such unnecessary tactics is frowned upon. Appreciated ..

I had a couple of friends who didn't realize that Slash was back either - even with the minimal promo that has been seen.

 

Edited April 26, 2016 by Gun Shy Assassin

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Gun Shy Assassin said:

Ok, so you are finally conceding that this is a "reunion" tour and that Axl's primary motivation is likely money. That's about all that I was trying to get you to concede. And you finally did. Thanks.

What made you think I concede to this being a "reunion" tour? I will never call it that, even with ""s, when the normal understanding of such a term is that a lineup has been reunited, which it hasn't. This is a new lineup featuring Slash and Duff who has returned to the band.

As for money being the motivating factor, I have never said otherwise I have been against Slash and Duff returning to the band because I have always feared such a move is more motivated by money than by art. Maybe you confuse me with someone else?

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, Gun Shy Assassin said:

Thanks for addressing the insults that are being thrown around, Russtcb. It's a lot more enjoyable to converse with other fans when resulting to such unnecessary tactics is frowned upon. Appreciated .

I apologize for suggesting that your belief that the early April shows would feature Izzy and Steven based on nothing at all really and despite the promos only featuring Axl, Slash, and Duff and being glaringly devoid of the word "reunion, was a bit stupid of you. I shouldn't have said that and for that I am sorry.

[Rovim]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What made you think I concede to this being a "reunion" tour? I will never call it that, even with ""s, when the normal understanding of such a term is that a lineup has been reunited, which it hasn't. This is a new lineup featuring Slash and Duff who has returned to the band.

As for money being the motivating factor, I have never said otherwise I have been against Slash and Duff returning to the band because I have always feared such a move is more motivated by money than by art. Maybe you confuse me with someone else?

But even if the money is the main factor here, they can only make the best art together imo. Axl never wanted Slash to leave Guns and Gn'R was always a commercial band. I don't understand how Slash's and Duff's return is a "cash grab" if they don't really compromise their musical integrity? just a thought.

[Gun Shy Assassin]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

I apologize for suggesting that your belief that the early April shows would feature Izzy and Steven based on nothing at all really and despite the promos only featuring Axl, Slash, and Duff and being glaringly devoid of the word "reunion, was a bit stupid of you. I shouldn't have said that and for that I am sorry.

Don't worry about it. I've encountered many posters through the years who, when losing an argument, start to resort to name-calling, etc. I'm not overly bothered by it because I understand that it's a coping mechanism, but it is much more enjoyable to converse with other fans when such tactics aren't utilized.

Thanks again for your apology.

[GNRfan2008]

This thread is exactly why the band is being so quiet. Axl opens his mouth and says one very uncontroversial sentence and it blows up into a 12 page knockdown, drag-out fight on this forum. I want the full Appetite lineup, but what he said about Richard is harmless. I don't blame them at all for keeping a tight lid on media interviews.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Rovim said:

But even if the money is the main factor here, they can only make the best art together imo. Axl never wanted Slash to leave Guns and Gn'R was always a commercial band. I don't understand how Slash's and Duff's return is a "cash grab" if they don't really compromise their musical integrity? just a thought.

Of course everyone is motivated by money, otherwise they'd give their music away for free. But I think an artist should be creative and make new music now and then, and not just repeat playing the same music decade after decade. At some time it loses artistic merit and becomes largely motivated by monetary gains. I always wanted GN'R to head in the direction of new music, I fear -- but am not 100 % certain - that this was a step in the wrong direction. Backwards. Towards pure nostalgia.

"Cash grab" is probably not a good word when I have nothing against musicians earning money. What I object to is more the lack of creating something new. I just don't have a good word for that.

2 minutes ago, Gun Shy Assassin said:

Don't worry about it. I've encountered many posters through the years who, when losing an argument, start to resort to name-calling, etc.

I have no problems understanding you hear such insults quite frequently.

[Gun Shy Assassin]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Of course everyone is motivated by money, otherwise they'd give their music away for free. But I think an artist should be creative and make new music now and then, and not just repeat playing the same music decade after decade. At some time it loses artistic merit and becomes largely motivated by monetary gains. I always wanted GN'R to head in the direction of new music, I fear -- but am not 100 % certain - that this was a step in the wrong direction. Backwards. Towards pure nostalgia.

"Cash grab" is probably not a good word when I have nothing against musicians earning money. What I object to is more the lack of creating something new. I just don't have a good word for that.

Would you describe the 2009-2014 lineup as being "creative"? IMO, It seems like exactly what we have now but much, much, less interesting.