First time listening to the entire Chinese Democracy album - WOW

[Rovim]

11 minutes ago, Apollo said:

Wouldn't that also mean that some people who love the album today won't love it in a decade?

Means it's possible they won't feel the same, meaning they'll like it even more, much less, or fuckin' hate it. Possibly.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Rovim

[wasted]

I think it's more that CD had a stigma or was not given a chance because "it's not GNR". And that filters down to generally not being pursued much. But years later with a bit of positive media coverage, like Slash playing the songs live or a good retrospective review maybe people will find something in it for them. The not GNR doesn't matter long term it all just goes into the itunes mixer. The songwriting is there and the songs are presented in an interesting way. There's definitely songs there worth checking out for old GNR fans and for a more modern direction too. I love IRS and Scraped. 

My AFD CD playlist is:

Chinese Democracy

Shackler's 

Better

Scraped

IRS

There was a Time

it works like the first side of AFD for me. 

Edited May 5, 2016 by wasted
Typo extended

[gunsnchalupas]

On 4/27/2016 at 4:21 PM, donny said:

alot of people saying demo versions are better. no the album versions are better but when i want a change i love listening to the acapella versions.

and whats with all you guns n roses fans saying you have not heard CD yet and you regard it as an axl solo album ? its the second best guns n roses album(after AFD) released.

i forget what forum member said it but he thinks CD is the most underrated rock album of all time. and i agree with him. 

 

 

The album is going to sound better because it is a mastered finished product and not demos that were possibly recorded with a tape recorder hidden in someone's ass.

As far as arrangements go, Chinese Democracy was effected negatively by how long it was worked on, and how many people touched it. It is interesting to see an album that dense, and that over the top. In a way, it is an unintentional concept album about itself. But the songs for the most part weren't improved. 1999 TWAT/IRS blow the final versions out of the water. Although it is hard to know what the 1999 versions of these songs would sound like (weren't the leaked demoes from later dates?), the raw and almost punkier version of Chinese Democracy that was played live in the early 2000s, along with the faster bumpier Blues were also better songs than the final versions.

 

Edited May 5, 2016 by gunsnchalupas

[weaponsnflowers]

On 4.5.2016 at 6:57 PM, Apollo said:

Why? If somebody didn't like the album in 2008 what makes you think they will like it in 2028?

Maybe the people who don't like it now will never like it. But new people might discover it and find it enjoyable. And I have found my own music tastes evolve over time. I like stuff I didn't like before. 

I must say it's strange that you have such attitude towards this album and it feels like you don't want anybody to like it. But luckily many people do like it, and rightly so.

[Duro]

TWAT is a top 5 GNR song. 

[Apollo]

5 hours ago, weaponsnflowers said:

Maybe the people who don't like it now will never like it. But new people might discover it and find it enjoyable. And I have found my own music tastes evolve over time. I like stuff I didn't like before. 

I must say it's strange that you have such attitude towards this album and it feels like you don't want anybody to like it. But luckily many people do like it, and rightly so.

Wtf are you talking about. I get mocked on this forum because I've repeatedly said that CD is the best rock album of the last decade, and that I think it's better than either Illusion. I initially bought 10 copies of CD and gave nine of fhem out as Christmas presents. I ran a music webpage for about a year and half my stories were GnR related, one where I listed CD as fhe most underrated rock album of all time.

What I am not, however, is a creepy fan boy who worships everything or praises everything Axl does. Or tries to put a positive spin on his every move. 

I am as big of a fan of Axl the singer as anybody on this forum. Have been a diehard since 1987. 

But I didn't cry tears of joy while sitting at home on my computer watching cell phone clips from Vegas and declare it the best day of my life. I'm not able to declare all is right in the world because of the way Axl's eyes looked as Axl looked at Slash (again, while looking at cell phone videos). 

I also don't have to make excuses as to why CD was basically a flop to the general rock public. It wasn't because lack of promotion. It wasn't because people didn't give it a chance. It wasn't because people weren't smart enough to understand its complexity. And for fucks sakes, ten years down the road from now millions of people aren't going to wake up one day and say "my gosh, this album was a masterpiece."

Obviously people's musical taste somewhat changes over time. We keep our favorites, but then stop listening to some music and pick up on other artists. 

Yes. CD will gain a few new fans a decade from now. But there will also - logically - be people who don't listen to it anymore. That statement doesn't make me a GnR hater. It just means I am capable of thinking logically and my opinions aren't tied to praising everything Axl does like a 13-year old fan girl. 

[Apollo]

9 minutes ago, Duro said:

TWAT is a top 5 GNR song. 

For you - that is 100% true.

For me it's a top 20 GnR song. I rank Better, Catcher and Street of Dreams higher than Twat. 

People have different tastes. 

Thats the one crazy thing about CD that is unusual for most albums. The fanbase is torn on what the albums essential songs are. Poll 10 different people in this forum on what their favorite CD song is and you could literally get 10 different answers. 

[Ace Nova]

CD is a good album.  And at the time of its release, many music critics and isiders praised the album.  It wasn't until it essentially flopped (by GN'R stanadards) that the media and critics changed their tune about the album, in typical media/Hollywood fashion. 

[Sprite]

17 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

CD is a good album.  And at the time of its release, many music critics and isiders praised the album.  It wasn't until it essentially flopped (by GN'R stanadards) that the media and critics changed their tune about the album, in typical media/Hollywood fashion. 

Let's just ponder for a moment and say Slash and Duff were on the album instead Stinson and the other lead guitarists. And let's say they called it "Use Your Illusion 3" because I think most are able to see CD is more like a continuation in that direction than a return to Appetite. I don't think it's presumptuous to say Slash and Duff are into the album. So track list stays the same and the general song structure is the same like what we've seen so far. 

I know I'm DEEP in the "what if drawer" right now.. but what if that were the case? Is UYI 3 universally praised? From my experience on this forum and in person, most people take issue with the name and lack of Slash. Not necessarily the music. I think we're a symbolic species and image is very important and often times the first thing that's looked at regardless of being fair or right. I think it's reasonable to assume had Slash been on that record and it kept its general feel, many more people would have given it the time of day. But again I'm way off in la la land here so it's just a though experiment really. 

[Sprite]

On 5/5/2016 at 2:22 AM, wasted said:

I think it's more that CD had a stigma or was not given a chance because "it's not GNR". And that filters down to generally not being pursued much. But years later with a bit of positive media coverage, like Slash playing the songs live or a good retrospective review maybe people will find something in it for them. The not GNR doesn't matter long term it all just goes into the itunes mixer. The songwriting is there and the songs are presented in an interesting way. There's definitely songs there worth checking out for old GNR fans and for a more modern direction too. I love IRS and Scraped. 

My AFD CD playlist is:

Chinese Democracy

Shackler's 

Better

Scraped

IRS

There was a Time

it works like the first side of AFD for me. 

I can definitely hear the AFD bits in Chinese on the songs you pointed out. And for that I think Axl has gotten short shrift in terms of writing credits and adding to the overall AFD sound that's so coveted here. I think most of these songs have that classic Appetite feel if you strip them down and take off a layer of polish. Maybe it needed Slash and co. to truly replicate it but a professional guitarist is a professional guitarist and the roots are there.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Sprite

[Jw224]

I think I prefer some of the mixes that leaked a year or so before the album was released. There's still quite a few differences between them and the final mixes. The earlier mixes sound less cluttered, I still love the final album though. 

[DieselDaisy]

I cannot get past the lyric, ''sitting in a Chinese stew'' - I'm sorry. I'm listening to a bootleg of the second Vegas show and had almost forgotten how much that line stank the place out.

[Rovim]

14 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I cannot get past the lyric, ''sitting in a Chinese stew'' - I'm sorry. I'm listening to a bootleg of the second Vegas show and had almost forgotten how much that line stank the place out.

That's a great line, don't be silly. Sitting in a Chinese stew. I don't understand the problem. The real time visionaries they sit in the stew, which is Chinese, to view Axl's dis-infa-tu-ation.

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, Rovim said:

That's a great line, don't be silly. Sitting in a Chinese stew. I don't understand the problem. The real time visionaries they sit in the stew, which is Chinese, to view Axl's dis-infa-tu-ation.

Cringeworthy.

[wasted]

CD is probably one of the most notable rock records of the 00s. The fact it's also rammed with great songs means fans and rock press will revisit the story and the album for years to come. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by wasted
Typo

[-W.A.R-]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I cannot get past the lyric, ''sitting in a Chinese stew'' - I'm sorry. I'm listening to a bootleg of the second Vegas show and had almost forgotten how much that line stank the place out.

im more put off by the masturbation line...how can i play this song out loud with that?

[wasted]

That's how I feel about Easy and Brownstone. One in a Million is great for a Neighbourhood barbq. 

Overall I don't think Chi dem is worse than some other GNR songs. At least no one can work out what it's about so nobody can pin you down. 

My intrepretation of "Chinese stew" is Axl was singing about the one-for-all and all-for-one swamp that GNR turned into.

But after Slash played the song I'm not sure my take is even close in terms of about the band. It may just be a protest song for the oppressed. 

Any pointers would be appre-ci-ated. 

[DR DOOM]

Lay of the booze and crack pipes.

[wasted]

Let's not do anything drastic. 

[wasted]

On 6 May 2016 at 2:05 AM, Sprite said:

I can definitely hear the AFD bits in Chinese on the songs you pointed out. And for that I think Axl has gotten short shrift in terms of writing credits and adding to the overall AFD sound that's so coveted here. I think most of these songs have that classic Appetite feel if you strip them down and take off a layer of polish. Maybe it needed Slash and co. to truly replicate it but a professional guitarist is a professional guitarist and the roots are there.

The idea I guess wasn't to replicate it. I guess he was mixing old GNR with 90s rock. AFD was 70s in the 80s, UYI was 80s in the 90s and CD was 90s in the 00s. 

The problem is 70s/80s rock fans don't neccessarily like 90s alternative. GNR were the saviours of classic rock to many. So 90s influences are going to rub them the wrong way. 

Songs like Shackler's, If the World, Scraped, Madagascar, Prostitute took the sound almost past 90s guitar rock into electronic dance and Radiohead beats. And that is so far removed from old GNR. 

But for the most part the songs and basic structures played by Slash would make them much more palatable for the rock community. People like his guitar work. I think just Slash's name and his high profile also helps the mainstream. Slash is the recognizable sound of GNR, if not always the songwriter. 

So I do think the songs touch on a lot of similar themes as AFD and UYI lyrically and dynamically it's very similar. Vocally obviously he's pushed it further in some cases but there's some like UYI type vocals. And if Slash just played lead on the majority of the songs it would just be UYI. People would just enjoy the guitar work and songs. 

 

 

[username]

Still an incoherent overproduced mess. Most songs are essentially good, but everything is so overdone. Tries to be everything, ends up being nothing.  

Would love to hear the 2000~2002 version of it. Leaked demo's of Catcher, IRS and TWAT and the live versions of The Blues, Maddy and Rhiad suggest it's a lot better. 

[wasted]

Slash solves a lot of these problems, serving up what we know and love, tried and tested. 

I appreciate what Axl did, even the notion of risk taking is in such short supply in rock. CD needed to be made by someone and Axl was just the guy to do it. Maybe he was on a mission from god like The Blues Brothers. 

[DieselDaisy]

3 hours ago, wasted said:

CD is probably one of the most notable rock records of the 00s. The fact it's also rammed with great songs means fans and rock press will revisit the story and the album for years to come. 

I'm glad you put 'probably' there.

[wasted]

34 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm glad you put 'probably' there.

Have you seen Heat?

[Jw224]

I would really love an album released with all the versions of the songs they worked on, properly mastered and in high quality. Because some of the leaked early mixes are really good.