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Does Death equal Time to Buy in the Age of Nostalgia?


wasted

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With Lemmy, Bowie, Prince dying and seeing a bump in their album sales as was thinking in this nostalgia obsessed culture that dying will be when artists sell the most records. 

With labels not nuturing new artists or indulging difficult artists their main way of profit will be when established acts die. Farewell tours boost sales and find different ways to say it's over is the best way to sell to consumers who trust nostalgia as a stamp of approval. How can you really know whether a new act will be worth seeing or listening to? But once a guy dies then you know he's important. 

I do it too, revisting Motorhead, Bowie, Scott and now Prince. I'm not sure why I need them to die before I really want to get the whe catalog. Maybe it's like safety in death, suddenly we can buy into the story, it's not going to change, we can see their significance in death.

I just feel bad buying their albums because they died, it's like that's the advert they needed to get me to purchase their music? 

There's definitely a change in my thinking. When they are alive it's like they have some great early stuff, then when they die I think those latter day funk experimental albums must be masterpieces. 

Are we just a nostalgia culture and that's how we are wired now?

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I just hate this nostalgia culture so much nowadays.  It goes against my "moving forward" mentality, embrace what we have today in anything we follow, and better ourselves to set up a better future. With guys like Lemmy, Prince, Weiland and Bowie passing, I feel indifferent about them before they passed away, and I still feel indifferent about them after they passed, even though I understand how impactful their big contributions to music are, though I feel that it is unfortunate that they did pass away.  Typically, I never really give too much respect and reverence to guys from classic bands since they, personally, do nothing for me in terms of getting into music (with the exception of Rush of course).

I will admit that this is a minority opinion though, but that's just my take regarding this whole "2016 is not a great year for elder musicians" thing.

Edited by Anguyen92
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It's pretty hard to move forward when your favorite genre, not to mention my taste is pretty conservative, seems to want to wallow deeply in nostalgia. When you rely on others to be pioneers you can be disappointed. I know that huge figures like Axl don't come around every month. But I just don't see who can or even really wants to take the whole of rock on in that way. Axl only did because he's crazy and even he fell back in line. 

Take Megadave for example. Right now he's putting albums, rocking pretty hard on Dystopia and nobody gives a fuck. If he dies guaranteed everyone will be sucking his his rigormortus cock. Then we'll all be reassessing his last few albums, and actually they are all pretty good. But mp3s are downloadin, but who's buying?

it's like Death is the psychological trigger at the point of purchase. Death sells nostalgia. So why not have a whole career based on nostalgia?

 

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6 hours ago, wasted said:

With Lemmy, Bowie, Prince dying and seeing a bump in their album sales as was thinking in this nostalgia obsessed culture that dying will be when artists sell the most records. 

With labels not nuturing new artists or indulging difficult artists their main way of profit will be when established acts die. Farewell tours boost sales and find different ways to say it's over is the best way to sell to consumers who trust nostalgia as a stamp of approval. How can you really know whether a new act will be worth seeing or listening to? But once a guy dies then you know he's important. 

I do it too, revisting Motorhead, Bowie, Scott and now Prince. I'm not sure why I need them to die before I really want to get the whe catalog. Maybe it's like safety in death, suddenly we can buy into the story, it's not going to change, we can see their significance in death.

I just feel bad buying their albums because they died, it's like that's the advert they needed to get me to purchase their music? 

There's definitely a change in my thinking. When they are alive it's like they have some great early stuff, then when they die I think those latter day funk experimental albums must be masterpieces. 

Are we just a nostalgia culture and that's how we are wired now?

Funny you should say that, i was in HMV half an hour ago and, i know no one noticed cuz they were busy wanking over Prince but Percy Sledge died the other day and i noticed his albums were on this big display and the exact same thing you're saying here occured to me.

21 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

It's not a "now-a-days" thing. This has been going on for ages across all media, not just music. 

Yeah but the point is its broadening, before it was like with big stars, now its starting to be a lot more across the board.

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17 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

Yeah but the point is its broadening, before it was like with big stars, now its starting to be a lot more across the board.

I honestly don't think it is though. I've worked at record / video stores in my much younger days and it used to happen whenever anyone of any stature died. Let me put it this way; when John Ritter passed away, the chain I was working for at the time pulled together a display of everything that was available with him in it. Customers came in, headed right to that display and bought up every bit of B-list / sitcom they could with him in it. I don't meany any disrespect to John Ritter, but I think we can definitely agree on his B-list status. The point is that it happens with artists of every status from what I've seen.

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The point is that no one sells records until they die. And that means nostalgia is bigger. Of course I then take the point too far   and guess that maybe that is too negative. But with remakes of movies, the idea that no new music is really needed or less anyway and the conservative nature of any creative area. Even modern art or contemporary art is often more about Julian Schabnel retrospectives than new artists. It's almost like a certain philosophical 20th century ideas have just expired. We know ideology leads nowhere.

In the age of terror we want safety. It's not just wanting to be young. It's a whole retro state of mind. Even Rap has immeadiately doubled back on NWA. It's the end of culture I tell you. We are getting ready to go live underground after a nuclear holocaust. Future lives will be uneventful yet full of pleasure. 

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12 minutes ago, wasted said:

The point is that no one sells records until they die. And that means nostalgia is bigger. Of course I then take the point too far   and guess that maybe that is too negative. But with remakes of movies, the idea that no new music is really needed or less anyway and the conservative nature of any creative area. Even modern art or contemporary art is often more about Julian Schabnel retrospectives than new artists. It's almost like a certain philosophical 20th century ideas have just expired. We know ideology leads nowhere.

In the age of terror we want safety. It's not just wanting to be young. It's a whole retro state of mind. Even Rap has immeadiately doubled back on NWA. It's the end of culture I tell you. We are getting ready to go live underground after a nuclear holocaust. Future lives will be uneventful yet full of pleasure. 

I'm not saying the overall point isn't valid, in fact, I'm saying the opposite. I'm just saying it's not a "now-a-days" thing. As far back as The Day The Music Died (the oldest example I can think of off the top of my head), people ran to consume an artists goods the moment they passed away.

I have a lot of problems with it myself, but I try hard to understand that not everyone is me. Personally, I make every effort to enjoy the artists I love while they're with us but not everyone does. Take some of Prince's latest efforts for example. I bought 3RDEYEGIRL and ARTOFFICIALAGE when they were released and played them for a couple friends. No one really thought anything about it, but then last Friday I spun 3RDEYEGIRL again and one friend who'd already heard it was like "Man....this is a REALLY good album". I wasn't mad, but I couldn't help but think to myself "You heard this a year ago when it was new and blew it off. Why is it 'a REALLY good album' now that he's passed?" 

It is what it is though. I've had other interactions that I've tried to ignore too. I posted the LP cover of The Gold Experience on social media the other day and someone replied "Wow, how did you find that? I can't find any Prince albums anywhere, let alone something rare like that!". Again, I was peaved but I didn't reply. My only thought was "I found it in my collection where it's been for years because I appreciated Prince while he was here. I didn't feel the need to run out and grab up a bunch of his music just because he's gone now".

Why do people finally start to appreciate an artist as soon as they're gone? I don't know but I have really mixed emotions about it myself.

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I do agree that the whole death thing making someone hot has gone on forever. But I think there's something to the culture reference. Like right now it feels like 80s hair metal is as cool as ever and more popular than new rock. Maybe because there's nothing new to challenge the past.

I saw it a lot with my own eyes when Cash died. As someone who's been listening to Cash since I was five, I really saw how much difference death can make. On the good side, it turned on a lot of people to his music. On the bad side, a majority of it seems like a death fad. I know I've seen people posting Prince stuff and I'm thinking, I never saw you fuck with Prince like that, or anything close to it. But they're screaming, this is so crazy I can't believe this I love Purple Rain!!!:(:(:o:o

Edited by J Dog
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Over time it kind of fades out and the estate finds ways to keep people interested somehow. 

With Prince, people supported his shows, but they didn't support the albums, although when it comes to vinyl, I did hear he was selling a lot. There were videos like 3 Chains O' Gold that are probably going for big money, but I was surprised the 1985 home video is also going for big bucks, neither one was reissued on DVD. Sign O' The Times, per Spike Lee, was supposed to be released on DVD. i'm really surprised they didn't run that in the theaters because Purple Rain is always on TV. 

He was already doing "family friendly" shows for a while so we've seen new generations of fans being turned onto his music. People were buying his vinyl when he was alive and he had to have been doing well selling those.

 

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I suppose live shows are part of the whole nostalgia disease. 

I havent really thought it all theough but I guess I'm going with  the idea that new artists aren't being developed they are just waiting for old ones to die kind of like remaking movies. Why spend money developing new movies when you can just wait for Phil Collins to die and rape his back catalog and vicey versy. 

So where it once was just apart of music. Like remakes were, it now really is the main crux. 

Its true no new scenes are happening we are just recycling Hair metal or 90s rap or thrash or punk or new wave like it's on this never ending nostalgia merry go round. And nobody even wants to get off!

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17 minutes ago, moreblack said:

It's not new, death is how artists like The Doors and Nirvana went from decent current band to "legendary"

You take that back! :lol:  Firstly, Nirvana were legendary by 1993, they'd made a mark that, whatever else happened, they were fuckin' quality.  Whether it be from the audience or from peers.  When people like Iggy, Bob Dylan start saying you're the shit (as they did with Kurt, while he was alive) then thats some kinda fuckin' acclaim, when you couple it with the audiences response i mean. 

As for The Doors, again, i don't think you have a point.  The Doors put out consistently quality fuckin' albums and sold out massive fuckin' venues, off their own back, when Jim died they were hitting a second peak with LA Woman (and the extent of their dip was basically just Soft Parade, and even then not cuz it was shit as an album, rather because it wasn't AS good as previous), The Doors would've been legendary one way or another, and WERE legendary at the time of Jimbos passing, in fact i think they might've benefitted from Jim living because the direction they were going wasn't necessarily gonna be popstar matierial.

I hate this idea thats bandied around that Morrison only became big cuz he died, you need to check the record on this boy, they played Hollywood Bowl, they were on Ed Sullivan, they had artistic kudos (unlike a lot of the other people on such TV shows), Isle of Wight festival, he was courted by people like Warhol and Burroughs and shit, The Doors were seriously legendary, of the most healthy era of rock n roll/popular music it cannot be denied that The Doors have got to be well into the top 10 best rock n roll bands.

In fact, you name me a list of great American rock n roll bands, see how many you can get through without The Doors deserving a spot, based purely on the quality of the music here.

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I think The Doors movie did re-up the Doors in the 90s rock landscape. And in someway Nirvana were kind of like the 90s Doors. Sort of spacey, arty with this cathartic rebellious feel. 

I think there's something in The Doors movie was like a sign of things to come. 

And the thing about Cobain was that his death was so steeped in cynicism. It really was like saying rock is played out, it's a big joke. So maybe there is no way to top Nirvana without killing yourself. Maybe that's why no one wants to try. 

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1 hour ago, wasted said:

And the thing about Cobain was that his death was so steeped in cynicism. It really was like saying rock is played out, it's a big joke. So maybe there is no way to top Nirvana without killing yourself. Maybe that's why no one wants to try. 

And it's interesting he didn't do it until after In Utero, it's like he gave it a try (to top Nevermind) and then said fuck it. I remember In Utero disappointing a lot of people. 

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1 hour ago, wasted said:

I think The Doors movie did re-up the Doors in the 90s rock landscape. And in someway Nirvana were kind of like the 90s Doors. Sort of spacey, arty with this cathartic rebellious feel. 

I think there's something in The Doors movie was like a sign of things to come. 

And the thing about Cobain was that his death was so steeped in cynicism. It really was like saying rock is played out, it's a big joke. So maybe there is no way to top Nirvana without killing yourself. Maybe that's why no one wants to try. 

Lots of rock stars died prior to Kurt Cobain, many of them much bigger stars in the scheme of things. Kurt's death isn't what killed rock music. Lack of interest due to a shitty, outdated business model did. 

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Well, that was unexpectedly deep, but the other dudes are right, this is far from being something new: dying certainly makes any artist more valuable. I think this became a little more "in your face" to us because 2016 killed a higher number of artists than we are used to.

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This has been a thing for at least a couple of hundred years I reckon. Look at the old painters and composers dying poor and shit.


Eye on the TV
'cause tragedy thrills me
Whatever flavour
It happens to be like;
Killed by the husband
Drowned by the ocean
Shot by his own son
She used the poison in his tea
And kissed him goodbye
That's my kind of story
It's no fun 'til someone dies

Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie
While the mother
Holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying
Why, oh why?
'cause I need to watch things die
From a distance

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?

We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
The writers of stories sold
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

I need to watch things die
From a good safe distance

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
You all feel the same so
Why can't we just admit it?

Blood like rain come down
Drawn on grave and ground

Part vampire
Part warrior
Carnivore and voyeur
Stare at the transmittal
Sing to the death rattle

La, la, la, la, la, la, la-lie

Credulous at best, your desire to believe in angels in the hearts of men.
Pull your head on out your hippy haze and give a listen.
Shouldn't have to say it all again.
The universe is hostile. so Impersonal. devour to survive.
So it is. So it's always been.

We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
Much better you than I

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5 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Well, that was unexpectedly deep, but the other dudes are right, this is far from being something new: dying certainly makes any artist more valuable. I think this became a little more "in your face" to us because 2016 killed a higher number of artists than we are used to.

People seem to be missing the point. I might be wrong obviously. But my theory is NOW artists sell way more when they die than a NEW artist is selling. But at their peak MJ or Prince sold a lot then dipped maybe but then died sold some more. BUT new artists sell like shit so industry focuses on nostalgia. So that's a turning point, and a dead end. Because it's a vicious cycle where nostalgia  takes precedent over new music. Hence killing music. 

The point with Cobain is he recognised that to be legend you had to do heroin and die. It was very cynical and planned. And hence exposed some of the dumbness of rock or the average rock fan. The worship of excess and the idea that dying makes you a legend. 

In Utero was like a suicide note in the same way that Joy Division's music or a track like The End prempted the death. But by grunge it was like a given. Dying is part of the job of being a rock star. And Cobain exposed that which kind of killed the whole glamor of live fast die fast. So next you got jocks jumping around to rap music. But we lost the punk ethos and energy which fueled so many bands but no one believes anymore. 

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Not sure if dead artists are selling more now than ever cuz I haven't checked any statics, but I do see your point and I agree that nostalgia seems to be more marketable now, or at least more advertised. Not only for music industry, but movies as well: Jurassic Park series, Star Wars, TMNT and Ghostbusters to name a few.

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11 hours ago, wasted said:

People seem to be missing the point. I might be wrong obviously. But my theory is NOW artists sell way more when they die than a NEW artist is selling. But at their peak MJ or Prince sold a lot then dipped maybe but then died sold some more. BUT new artists sell like shit so industry focuses on nostalgia. So that's a turning point, and a dead end. Because it's a vicious cycle where nostalgia  takes precedent over new music. Hence killing music. 

That is the point though; as this has happened throughout history, the recently deceased artist has always sold more immediately than the living artists of the time. 

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1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

That is the point though; as this has happened throughout history, the recently deceased artist has always sold more immediately than the living artists of the time. 

Whats he's trying to say is, if i may speak on my Gurus behalf for a moment, that this is the first era where the deceased sell more than the living as a rule.  Yes, artists have always sold more upon their deaths but at the same time as that there were always big living artists that had top end record sales...and a good few of them at that.

Edited by Len B'stard
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