Steven Adler - Silence Speaks Louder than Words?

[Modano09]

1 hour ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

But maaaaan, he was loyal to our Axl!! Also he doesn't get drunk or high, he plays as if he was heavily drunk AND high at the same time but he's actually clean and.... ehhh... he has a cool beard...

        

I like how you brush being an unreliable trainwreck under the rug like it's silly to hold it against him and Axl's being crazy dictator Axl for going with the guy who doesn't have a drug problem. Unlike a guy like Duff, Adler didn't grow up, he didn't get sober, he didn't sit back and look at things from other's perspective to understand how his actions lead to him being fired or friends distancing themselves from him. He's whined about it and played victim for 26 years while being on again off again sober. The only reason people think it's realistic to have him in the band is because Slash and Duff are back, not because Adler himself did anything to earn the chance.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Modano09

[Good, Fuck'n, Night.]

7 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

I like how you brush being an unreliable trainwreck under the rug like it's silly to hold it against him. Unlike a guy like Duff, Adler didn't grow up, he didn't get sober, he didn't sit back and look at things from other's perspective to understand how his actions lead to him being fired or friends distancing themselves from him. He's whined about it and played victim for 26 years while being on again off again sober. The only reason people think it's realistic to have him in the band is because Slash and Duff are back, not because Adler himself did anything to earn the chance.

Getting sober happens at different times & in different ways for people. Steve is a dead set 100% "Real" alcoholic / drug addict. It kills most people before they get to stop. If  he is sober & starting to take responsibility for his lot in life (he wont get sober with out doing that) then there is no reason he wont eventually become as reliable as the others. I have heard him quoted saying he used to blame the others for everything & those resentments kept him relapsing. He claims to now understand that he was responsible for what happened, not the others. If you had any understanding of alcoholism you would understand these words, if true go, a long way in him starting to recover.

[Modano09]

9 minutes ago, Good, Fuck'n, Night. said:

Getting sober happens at different times & in different ways for people. Steve is a dead set 100% "Real" alcoholic / drug addict. It kills most people before they get to stop. If  he is sober & starting to take responsibility for his lot in life (he wont get sober with out doing that) then there is no reason he wont eventually become as reliable as the others. I have heard him quoted saying he used to blame the others for everything & those resentments kept him relapsing. He claims to now understand that he was responsible for what happened, not the others. If you had any understanding of alcoholism you would understand these words, if true go, a long way in him starting to recover.

As recently as September he was complaining that Slash and Duff didn't like him and were essentially big jerks because they were fed up with him or didn't believe he was sober for real now, so he was still victimizing himself to some degree then. I just find the only times he really will take responsibility for his actions is if he has something to gain from it and he knows it's what people want to hear from him.

[Good, Fuck'n, Night.]

12 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

As recently as September he was complaining that Slash and Duff didn't like him and were essentially big jerks because they were fed up with him or didn't believe he was sober for real now, so he was still victimizing himself to some degree then. I just find the only times he really will take responsibility for his actions is if he has something to gain from it and he knows it's what people want to hear from him.

Slash & Duff did not transform overnight the day they got sober & Steve wont ether. He has some large chunks of truth about himself he will have to digest over time. 

Steve may have become less functional much quicker than the others & stayed inconsistent much longer but that is irrelevant once continuous sobriety is achieved. 

Of course the second part of your post is possible as well. Being someone long term sober myself & being in a position to watch other people achieve that also (sometimes late in life & after a long struggle). I am rooting for Steve to get there himself. 

[BorderlineCrazy]

2 hours ago, Modano09 said:

I like how you brush being an unreliable trainwreck under the rug like it's silly to hold it against him and Axl's being crazy dictator Axl for going with the guy who doesn't have a drug problem. Unlike a guy like Duff, Adler didn't grow up, he didn't get sober, he didn't sit back and look at things from other's perspective to understand how his actions lead to him being fired or friends distancing themselves from him. He's whined about it and played victim for 26 years while being on again off again sober. The only reason people think it's realistic to have him in the band is because Slash and Duff are back, not because Adler himself did anything to earn the chance.

WHAT? Did I ever say Axl is a dictator for chosing Ferrer over Steven? I never did that and never would. I love Axl and, as I said like a hundred times, I think the band have the right to chose who they want to be their drummer. It'd be a shame to me if they decided to keep Steven 100% out without giving him the chance to play at least a few songs at gigs, but it's their decision and I respect it. Leaving Steven aside, I can't believe they chose to continue having a drummer who (IMO) sucks at half of the songs when there are way better drummers to play the songs, like Brent Fitz who would have been really easy to get but again, I respect their decision, even if I don't understand it and completely disagree with them.

Back to Steven, he has all the right in the world to be upset if Slash doesn't believe him when he says he's been sober for almost 2 years. He's not blaming Slash, he just want his efforts to be recognized 'cause he's working hard to finally overcome his demons. But if you take a minute to read his interview, he's taken full responsibilty for his actions, said he's the only one to blame for what happened to him and that he did this to himself, not the other guys. He also mentioned how it took them like 10-11-12 months of being sober to finally be able to think clearly. He's gone a long way and is finally doing well, he just want the other guys to acknowledge it instead of putting him down.

One last thing, none of us wanted Slash or Duff back in GNR because of what they've done in VR, SMKC or Loaded. I personally wanted them back because GNR is their band as much as Axl's and because of what they had done IN GNR. Same goes to Steven and Izzy, I want them back because this band never sounded as good to me as when those five guys were together, not because of Steven's infectious smile or because Izzy is a cool gypsy. Still I'm not complaining about how the band's doing, I'm really happy overall. I just don't understand why some people claim we don't have reasons to want these guys back when we clearly have our reasons whether you share them or not.

[stella]

RE: Steven being upset if Slash/Duff don't believe he's sober...one of the problems is that this isn't the first time Adler's said that. Or the second. Or the third, fourth, or fifth. These guys saw Adler blow it in Guns N' Roses, blow it after Celebrity Rehab, blow it again when he got high on Sober House, blow it after being offered that opening slot for the Loaded tour. At this point, there's no reason they wouldn't be skeptical because they've probably heard, over and over again, Adler's claims that this time his sobriety will stick. I'm sure they'd all love to believe that's true, for Adler's own sake, but when someone has been an addict for a long time and has repeatedly let everyone (including themselves) down, it 's somewhat understandable that it would take a very long time for friends, family and acquaintances to trust them enough to take them at their word.

Adler's still got very weird perspectives toward other people. In every interview, even the recent ones, he seems to continually claim that people lavish compliments on him and also seems to lament that Slash and Duff don't like him and are being "mean." It does seem to demonstrate that he still really doesn't get it on some level.

Edited May 4, 2016 by stella

[wasted]

I do think that being part of GNR might help Steven stay sober. Or maybe that is just too hopeful and too much of a risk for 50 somethings who don't give a fuck anymore. 

I always feel like Slash could do more, Izzy could do more even. Couldn't have him drum with him in a band? Niven as mansger. They talk a big game. 

I find it difficult to believe hes insecure about it, GNR. Fuck it you know. I mean if not being involved sends back to drugs and loose women...that doesn't sound all that bad does it!

[starlight]

Blaming Steven for his childish behaviour and yet Slash and Axl acted like 2 immature kids and didn't talk to each other for almost twenty years

 

[challenger70rt]

16 minutes ago, starlight said:

Blaming Steven for his childish behaviour and yet Slash and Axl acted like 2 immature kids and didn't talk to each other for almost twenty years

 

^~~~This. That's kind of part of my point in all this. People act like Steven was just this colossal POS that did nothing but let everyone around him down, but it seems like pretty much EVERYONE in the band was a colossal fucking trainwreck in some manner during their formative years... Coming down so hard on him is  a little hypocritical. I just don't see what the big deal about giving him another shot is. I don't see what the risk in it is.

[axlvai]

^^ well, i think ppl think that Steven can fuck it up in a show with GnR if he do some drugs again. Is a valid question.

 

Imo, when a person have a big uncontroled problem with drugs, they cant do it 4 their own. Adler cant be alone 4 the risk that income. IMHO!

 

So... i believe in Steven... i will lov to seein again in GnR doing some AFD. That is his place. 

 

And Sorum have his place too. But that is other topic.

[Tom-Ass]

16 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

It would be nuts to see the band and steven play Reckless Life and Move To The City

Yeah it would.. I was lucky enough to see them play Nice Boys and Reckless Life the same show during the Skin N' Bones tour.. No Steven Of Course but I will never forget it. Axl sounded fucking killer.

[mikebones]

11 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

WHAT? Did I ever say Axl is a dictator for chosing Ferrer over Steven? I never did that and never would. I love Axl and, as I said like a hundred times, I think the band have the right to chose who they want to be their drummer. It'd be a shame to me if they decided to keep Steven 100% out without giving him the chance to play at least a few songs at gigs, but it's their decision and I respect it. Leaving Steven aside, I can't believe they chose to continue having a drummer who (IMO) sucks at half of the songs when there are way better drummers to play the songs, like Brent Fitz who would have been really easy to get but again, I respect their decision, even if I don't understand it and completely disagree with them.

Back to Steven, he has all the right in the world to be upset if Slash doesn't believe him when he says he's been sober for almost 2 years. He's not blaming Slash, he just want his efforts to be recognized 'cause he's working hard to finally overcome his demons. But if you take a minute to read his interview, he's taken full responsibilty for his actions, said he's the only one to blame for what happened to him and that he did this to himself, not the other guys. He also mentioned how it took them like 10-11-12 months of being sober to finally be able to think clearly. He's gone a long way and is finally doing well, he just want the other guys to acknowledge it instead of putting him down.

One last thing, none of us wanted Slash or Duff back in GNR because of what they've done in VR, SMKC or Loaded. I personally wanted them back because GNR is their band as much as Axl's and because of what they had done IN GNR. Same goes to Steven and Izzy, I want them back because this band never sounded as good to me as when those five guys were together, not because of Steven's infectious smile or because Izzy is a cool gypsy. Still I'm not complaining about how the band's doing, I'm really happy overall. I just don't understand why some people claim we don't have reasons to want these guys back when we clearly have our reasons whether you share them or not.

Tremendous applause1

[Modano09]

1 hour ago, axlvai said:

^^ well, i think ppl think that Steven can fuck it up in a show with GnR if he do some drugs again. Is a valid question.

 

Imo, when a person have a big uncontroled problem with drugs, they cant do it 4 their own. Adler cant be alone 4 the risk that income. IMHO!

 

So... i believe in Steven... i will lov to seein again in GnR doing some AFD. That is his place. 

 

And Sorum have his place too. But that is other topic.

And what happens when the tour ends? What happens if this is a nostalgia stadium tour and they go their separate ways? Alder's sobriety can't depend on GNR and GNR can't depend on Adler's sobriety.  

[axlvai]

Idk the future.... and the future plans for anyone neither. Maybe they can enjoy the life with all the money that they will make and they deserve all that.

 

They cant be together 4 ever. Is a job. First was a dream, then a dream come true.... then... then was.... the biggest band in the world!!!

 

I hope Axl n co. will make the best. 

 

So.... if Ader cant get healthy and cant leave the drugs, maybe will die.... is his choice. Not ours.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2016 by axlvai
Correcting

[Tom-Ass]

12 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

I can't believe they chose to continue having a drummer who (IMO) sucks at half of the songs when there are way better drummers to play the songs

It truly is baffling. I think it is mostly just Axl being Loyal. Frank was good enough for NuGnR.. Axl is stubborn and doesn't want to fire anyone or make any changes for this regrouping. It is NuGnR business as usual. Join if you want to.  I am sure he was still all for having 3 guitarists if DJ didn't leave.

[stella]

Saying that Adler's a lifetime addict isn't slamming him, it's telling the truth.

Nobody claimed that any of the other guys were angels. Ever. All of them except Duff have DV accusations, even though Adler's the only one who's gone to jail for it. We've rehashed their shortcomings and crimes many times. They've ALL been trainwrecks in one way or another.

 

But interesting thing: all of the other trainwrecks -- including Axl -- have managed to get their shit together for the most part. Whatever we say about Axl's no-shows, it hasn't happened in a decade. Duff and Slash have both been working consistently even with a relapse or two, and they've cooperated with many other artists. No, Slash and Axl didn't speak, but they still handled Guns N' Roses business. And Izzy hasn't toured much but he's not made a public spectacle of himself anywhere and seems to have been content with the life he made for himself.
 

Nobody in the industry has wanted to touch Adler with a ten foot pole for the last 26 years and there are apparently damn good reasons for that. Think about it, in an industry that is RIFE with addicts and alcoholics, Adler's been so far out that nobody's wanted to deal with him or hire him. It's not just the AfD guys being mean. NOBODY'S hired him. He's not had sobriety for any extended period of time. The man ditched his entire band in Europe without means to get home when he was off on a bender. The ONE time Duff gave him a shot to open for Loaded, he completely fucked it up again. The guy has not been able to handle an opening slot, and they should hire him on a multi-million dollar tour?!

Edited May 5, 2016 by stella

[challenger70rt]

6 hours ago, stella said:

Saying that Adler's a lifetime addict isn't slamming him, it's telling the truth.

Nobody claimed that any of the other guys were angels. Ever. All of them except Duff have DV accusations, even though Adler's the only one who's gone to jail for it. We've rehashed their shortcomings and crimes many times. They've ALL been trainwrecks in one way or another.

 

But interesting thing: all of the other trainwrecks -- including Axl -- have managed to get their shit together for the most part. Whatever we say about Axl's no-shows, it hasn't happened in a decade. Duff and Slash have both been working consistently even with a relapse or two, and they've cooperated with many other artists. No, Slash and Axl didn't speak, but they still handled Guns N' Roses business. And Izzy hasn't toured much but he's not made a public spectacle of himself anywhere and seems to have been content with the life he made for himself.
 

Nobody in the industry has wanted to touch Adler with a ten foot pole for the last 26 years and there are apparently damn good reasons for that. Think about it, in an industry that is RIFE with addicts and alcoholics, Adler's been so far out that nobody's wanted to deal with him or hire him. It's not just the AfD guys being mean. NOBODY'S hired him. He's not had sobriety for any extended period of time. The man ditched his entire band in Europe without means to get home when he was off on a bender. The ONE time Duff gave him a shot to open for Loaded, he completely fucked it up again. The guy has not been able to handle an opening slot, and they should hire him on a multi-million dollar tour?!

Yes, yes they should. I don't think anyone is saying "Hey, let's make Adler the full-time 100% drummer". It's more like, "Hey, lets give Adler a shot and keep another session drummer on retainer... just in case. Frank is likely getting paid peanuts compared to the rest of the group, and Adler would probably do the gigs for less then what Frank is getting just because he wants to do it, so I doubt it'd be much of a money issue. I whole-heartedly doubt money is overall, much of an issue for any of the 5 og guys (other then wanting more of it, and who doesn't?). Christ Adler who has been the worst with money, still makes enough off of AFD to live comfortably.

[stella]

24 minutes ago, challenger70rt said:

Yes, yes they should. I don't think anyone is saying "Hey, let's make Adler the full-time 100% drummer". It's more like, "Hey, lets give Adler a shot and keep another session drummer on retainer... just in case. Frank is likely getting paid peanuts compared to the rest of the group, and Adler would probably do the gigs for less then what Frank is getting just because he wants to do it, so I doubt it'd be much of a money issue. I whole-heartedly doubt money is overall, much of an issue for any of the 5 og guys (other then wanting more of it, and who doesn't?). Christ Adler who has been the worst with money, still makes enough off of AFD to live comfortably.

I'm not talking about what they would pay him. I'm talking about the stakes. Putting someone like Adler in a tour that has so much invested in it -- both in terms of money and in terms of restoring GnR's reputation -- and praying he won't crash and burn as he's done before, is a really foolhardy idea. They've got sold out stadiums. They can't afford to hire someone who has been so completely unreliable and has no demonstrated history of surviving through a tour of any consequence at any time during the past 26 years. Cripes, if the guy can't get through a club tour or reliably play an opening slot without going off the rails, how in God's name would he be expected to get through a high-profile, high-pressure tour in huge venues like this?

 

If he completely blows it the way he has before, that reflects poorly on everyone, it creates bad press about how Guns N' Roses is falling apart *again* and it also might have financial implications. And having to keep a standby drummer in case Adler blows it is ridiculous. Either he can do the job or he can't.

Frank's been reliable, he's been solid, he doesn't have Adler's substance abuse history and he's proven he can handle a tour.

Edited May 5, 2016 by stella

[starlight]

sorry but to me Axl and Slash fighting each other for years have caused much more damage to GNR than Steven Adler and his drug issues

Besides I believe Steven is clean now

[challenger70rt]

Yeah, Frank's reliable. He shows up and sounds like hell... That's great. I'd welcome a Steven Adler trainwreck over Frank sounding like ass whilst sober any day. At least when Adler would be on the songs would sound right.

 

 

I hope Frank gets fired. That's because his style doesn't jive with the rest of the band that's all I'm really trying to say here =D.

 

[stella]

Okay, so all of you who want Adler so badly, let's say you own a business. A guy comes in to apply for a job who has an impressive credential from 1985 - 1990 ...but hasn't had solid employment in 26 years, has major problems maintaining sobriety, doesn't have any job references who are willing to vouch for him, and has screwed up the little work that he's had. You'd all be ready and willing to hire him for a position of great responsibility that has direct effect on your personal and professional reputation, right?

 

Whether Frank is one's cup of tea or not, he's the one the band wants at this time.

 

[challenger70rt]

Eh, I'm done arguing about it now. It doesn't much matter I suppose. I just hope Frank isn't in fact the one the band wants and his presence recently has been one of necessity.  

[Lumikki]

Also, it's probably not as simple as "In case Adler can't keep it together, let's just use another drummer". Have you ever considered what potentially comes after Adler can't keep his shit together (the chances of which are pretty high)? Lawsuits and business problems, that's what. Axl himself said a couple of years ago that working with Steven Adler again would be a legal nightmare waiting to happen. And he's probably right, considering how Adler (and his mother) have acted in the past.

Axl, Slash and Duff probably don't want to spend any more time on legal battles if they can avoid it. They've already been through that with Steven and even with each other. I bet they're sick of it.

And on a personal level, Adler also has the potential to disrupt the tentative new-found truce/friendship between Axl/Slash/Duff. He doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut and has no tact or subtlety whatsoever.

[Modano09]

1 hour ago, stella said:

Okay, so all of you who want Adler so badly, let's say you own a business. A guy comes in to apply for a job who has an impressive credential from 1985 - 1990 ...but hasn't had solid employment in 26 years, has major problems maintaining sobriety, doesn't have any job references who are willing to vouch for him, and has screwed up the little work that he's had. You'd all be ready and willing to hire him for a position of great responsibility that has direct effect on your personal and professional reputation, right?

 

Whether Frank is one's cup of tea or not, he's the one the band wants at this time.

 

Simple. You hire the guy, but you hire a sober guy too that'll just sit home and be on call in case the first guy doesn't work out. But once you hire the sobriety coach and security to keep and eye on him that likely won't happen. Paying 5 or 6 people instead of 1 just makes good business sense.