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Axl and the lack of new material


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3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I would have liked Guns to follow a Neil Youngesque/Tom Pettyesque/Springsteen path and constantly put out albums - one per year - and ditched static setlists and cheesy videos; there would have been no skeleton t-shirts also which, in my opinion aligns them with the truly horrendous heavy metal genre. They had a guy in the band who had this style, Izzy, but he became ostracised in the band dynamic (Axl n' Slosh) and eventually left to pursue better things, better that is than swimming with dolphins or soloing on cliff tops.

I think they could have easily been like The Stones release wise, putting out a lot of albums in the last 20 years. If Axl had just said yes to Slash on Snakepit. I don't see how Izzy could fit in though as he was more anti-stadium rock. It seems like bands have to decide if they want to be huge stadium band or break up. Guns broke up but Axl didn't wanna. It's very hard to keep your Izzy coolness and get paid, be that laid back and put out albums like Ju ju hounds. I feel like it could have fit. A mix of Snakepit and Ju ju with TIL and Catcher might have been that late 90s record. Maybe AFD was Slash's best shit, Izzy and Axl came through on UYI and then Axl's vision is on CD. 

But now we are going into GNR's Steel Wheels era. They can make one more album that people will care about and tour for the money. Duff is the Charlie and Richard is the Ronnie, and Dizzy is Daryl Jones just hoping no one notices he made it. Melissa is like that black chick that comes on to do Gimme Shelter. Lana Del Rey is the Christiana Aguilera of GNR. 

 

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The plan is to sell what comes next like hot cakes, with a dvd and a new best-of in September the band will look stronger than ever. Market axl/dc at the same time n finally put Metallica in the closet. In 2017, give the craving fans CDII and call it GnFnR. Release more videos. Build an army of one, unleash your inner rock god, and win in life and business.

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I think doing a Detox on CD II would interesting. Getting Slash and Duff on CD era material then call it GnFnR would interesting and with some new Slash/Duff tracks it could sell like Black Ice. 

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3 minutes ago, wasted said:

I think doing a Detox on CD II would interesting. Getting Slash and Duff on CD era material then call it GnFnR would interesting and with some new Slash/Duff tracks it could sell like Black Ice. 

I think the key is promotion and the excitement of having Slash and Duff back would certainly help. Black Ice isn't anywhere as good as CD but it had acceptance from the AC/DC fan base and was marketed and distributed to perfection.

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4 hours ago, The Archer said:

I think the key is promotion and the excitement of having Slash and Duff back would certainly help. Black Ice isn't anywhere as good as CD but it had acceptance from the AC/DC fan base and was marketed and distributed to perfection.

So I think that could happen with a record Slash and Duff are on. But I think Rock or Bust dramatically undersold Black ice. But not sure sales matter all that much at this point, other then be enough for label not to block the release. 

But I think reunion record will focus attention on the release and the they make their point musically. Some people have been waiting 20 years for this record and because of that other people will check it out and the media will be on it. So there's window. 

I think they could make an understated album like Rock or Bust or Sol Invictus or something like Different Kind of Truth and say something with the record. 

They need that single that plays at NFL games that sounds like AFD/UYI rocker like Play Ball, and hitting the nostalgia feel like on Superhero and getting that signature sound like VH got on You and Your Blues. But they can then do some ballads and epics too. A fast Slash opener like Sucker train or RNDTH. With a Duff punk song like Ode to LA. Maybe a cover if it's the perfect choice. But just 10 tracks, couple of acoustic tracks, maybe Izzy penned. 

Then you think about Izzy and I can't believe he doesn't have 3 cds of songs and writing with Axl they could then go into studio and record this monster album. Have queues around the block at Tower records. I don't see why not at this point? They could rock the world again!

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9 minutes ago, wasted said:

Then you think about Izzy and I can't believe he doesn't have 3 cds of songs and writing with Axl they could then go into studio and record this monster album. Have queues around the block at Tower records. I don't see why not at this point? They could rock the world again!

I think about Stradlin. Does he want to take over the world? does it mean he'll need to tour for a year and a half? is it really something Axl can do, since they still have Fortus?

Seems like there could be issues on both sides. Technically there is no good reason not to do it, but they went with the big 3 partnership thing. Izzy is not a part of it. Doesn't look like they're in a hurry to incorporate Izzy and maybe it's possible they don't feel they need him in full capacity.

It's weird that they tried with Izzy for VR and some of his ideas ended up getting used for Contraband, but when the impossible happens, he's not in the picture. He can make a huge difference in the studio it will be stupid not to use his talent. A new Guns album is a tall order even with all the material in the vault. It will be a shame, but maybe they can do it on their own.

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They can make a great self titled hard rock album. A great ass kicking product. Like a heavier AFD. Without the Izzyness the songs get heavier like Don't Damn Me, Garden of Eden. 

But for that sprawling 3-cd masterpiece you need Stradlin to vary up the songs. Maybe it's just not what the majority of GNR fans want. Like UYI even looser with more scope and rock n roll. Still having CD era stuff and metal songs and Izzy throwaway. A lot unplugged stuff too. Recorded live in the studio. I see them recording in Rio in a jungle for a year and emerging with this huge monster album. The vibe could be like when that aeroplane flys over the studio Physical Graphiti and Plant says nah leave it and goes into the song. Just let GNR breathe in the studio in the jungle. It would be beautiful. Safari Inn style solos and Partly Cloudy, mixed with Coma and Axl epics and Izzy rock n roll songs. 

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On Saturday, May 14, 2016 at 1:31 AM, wasted said:

But that would mean the partnership that Axl, Slash and Duff formed after Izzy and Steven gone wasn't GNR? 

Basically I think Slash and Duff could have stayed. Laying it off on the technicality of who has the name is weak. Seriously they just wasted 23 years on this name bullshit? 

I never really understood why the who has the name argument anyway. If we all read Slash's book we see that he and Steven also created a band when they were younger. Steven wanted to use the band name and Slash put a legal stop to it.

Now of course that band wasn't famous or popular but none the less Slash claimed he came up with the name so therefore it was his. He won that issue.

Guns and Roses was named before Slash joined and was combined of Axl and Tracis respective last names or nickname. GnR was more famous after that of course but Axl was the only member left who came up with the name.

Now getting into the partnership and royalties is different. A name is seperate.

I never had an issue with Axl keeping the name based off he came up with it.

I'm well aware the legalities were different due to what the name meant in the business and the recordings royalties etc etc. Which is one reason why he secured it.

We don't know what happened behind scenes but I do know one thing, when several people involved with the band whom as far as we know weren't drug addicts said it was to protect the band from wives in case of over doses or family I can understand that.

As far as Axl desolving and reforming the band per Slash it may very well be for one of the above reasons. 

People who later weren't in good with Axl claimed the above reasons for why it was done. This isn't to negate what some band members said but when one chapter your memory is hazy due to drugs and the next your recalling avid detail it's Hard To Say What Was what.

I don't know who told the truth and who didn't at this point it doesn't exactly matter anymore. But yes I see what your saying.

Edited by BOSSY78
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2 hours ago, Rovim said:

I think about Stradlin. Does he want to take over the world? does it mean he'll need to tour for a year and a half? is it really something Axl can do, since they still have Fortus?

Seems like there could be issues on both sides. Technically there is no good reason not to do it, but they went with the big 3 partnership thing. Izzy is not a part of it. Doesn't look like they're in a hurry to incorporate Izzy and maybe it's possible they don't feel they need him in full capacity.

It's weird that they tried with Izzy for VR and some of his ideas ended up getting used for Contraband, but when the impossible happens, he's not in the picture. He can make a huge difference in the studio it will be stupid not to use his talent. A new Guns album is a tall order even with all the material in the vault. It will be a shame, but maybe they can do it on their own.

I think back on when Axl said when Izzy left he talked extensively on the phone with him trying to get him to stay. I believe if memory serves me he said he cried. 

After all was said and done Izzy forfeited his partnership in the band. Do I wish Izzy was there yes, but I also know it's not fair to the guys who fought tooth and nail to remain a partner if Izzy is given that back. So therefore Izzy would be salaried so to speak which may be where the problem lies. Again I'm only guessing and this may or may not be the case.

I can understand Izzy should be there but also understand these guys have put a lot into this over the years behind the scenes or in front. He hasn't.

Again I hope Izzy is there at some point the guys amazing.

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1 hour ago, Wagszilla said:

So dumb it down and retread old ground? 

Art is dead. 

As long as Axl is alive, there will be Art. (Elton John ballads and industrial shred epics)

Edited by Rovim
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4 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

So dumb it down and retread old ground? 

Art is dead. 

Definitions of art. If the idea is to make a kick ass hard rock record, that is art. Not dumbing down, refining. 

But reality is they have Axl songs, Slash songs, Duff songs. Maybe they mix in CD era writers, some older stuff. 

I doubt they will do something as interesting as CD. People want the old sound, that's been the main bitch about CD. 

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4 hours ago, BOSSY78 said:

I think back on when Axl said when Izzy left he talked extensively on the phone with him trying to get him to stay. I believe if memory serves me he said he cried. 

After all was said and done Izzy forfeited his partnership in the band. Do I wish Izzy was there yes, but I also know it's not fair to the guys who fought tooth and nail to remain a partner if Izzy is given that back. So therefore Izzy would be salaried so to speak which may be where the problem lies. Again I'm only guessing and this may or may not be the case.

I can understand Izzy should be there but also understand these guys have put a lot into this over the years behind the scenes or in front. He hasn't.

Again I hope Izzy is there at some point the guys amazing.

I think maybe we over estimate his role to the success of the band. Not the songs, he was vital, pivotal, irreplaceable. Creatively brought a lot of ideas, like you see on his solo albums, but then it's really Axl and Slash that make the product. Izzy himself said Illusions were just so far from him. Axl's epics, even Slash's material was so far from what he would do. But Slash is good with Izzy's songs. He could take those songs and rock them out. 

I just don't think they have this idea to go back to AFD and salvage it, probably because to them UYI was successful. It might be how Axl feels about CD. If you work on something and tour it you value it. Fans are always looking to go back to AFD but Duff is playing New Rose at the shows. When Nov Rain and Coma are getting rave reviews you can see that 14 Years isn't everything. 

I guess you could say that if it was a reunion then Izzy would be involved. But maybe he's seen what they are working on studio wise and it's not his thing. Still not really that into it. 

Or they are working with Izzy in studio and when he has to he will tour with the album. But seems unlikely. To me a reunion is Slash playing Izzy songs in GNR. Been there done that. 

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My favourite 'Axl' is the Axl who sings on straight up raw rock n' roll as on Appetite and with AC/DC. The 'bleeps and fart' numetal of Chinese Democracy, and even the epic piano ballads of Illusion, pale in comparison to Axl delivering full rasp on a full blooded guitar driven bluesy rocker.

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Got to agree a straight up hard rock album is where they should be looking to head. Now we know Axl has the rasp for it he might as well use it while he still has it. With Slash Duff and maybe Izzy helping the talent is there for a great album. I don't care how well an album sells if the money is in touring then new songs will keep bringing fans back to hear them being played live. 

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5 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

What does a 50-some year old Axl with a net worth of $100+ million have to be angry about?

It will be as phony as AC/DC, Metallica, and everyone else who tries to relive their halcyon days after they've long passed.

Little Axl has grown up before our eyes, one would hope he continues that growth on record as well. 

Firstly, I never even mentioned 'anger'. You do not have to be 'angry' to sing rock n' roll, or rock n' roll lyrics need not necessarily be angry. Just look at Chuck Berry and Little Richard, a glorious evocation of 'Americana'. Secondly, I like AC/DC and have liked the last two 'DC records.

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At this point, a straight up hard rock record or a straight up CDII from GN'R would both be disappointing. I think we need a mix of both and some totally new monsters. A Guns N' Roses for the millennial generation.

Edited by The Archer
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14 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

My favourite 'Axl' is the Axl who sings on straight up raw rock n' roll as on Appetite and with AC/DC. The 'bleeps and fart' numetal of Chinese Democracy, and even the epic piano ballads of Illusion, pale in comparison to Axl delivering full rasp on a full blooded guitar driven bluesy rocker.

We all have our favorites. Mine change like a supermodels lingerie. But I think Axl, the band may like all the different material? For different reasons.

I get the impression Axl sees it like a job a lot. Like I have to play these songs and tries to get into them, but he also seems like he has a dream or some songs he wants out there. Duff I feel like he's proud of GNR, all the songs but has a few he likes to do. Slash just wants to rock. I always wondered what he likes to play the most. He's unreadable really. 

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46 minutes ago, wasted said:

We all have our favorites. Mine change like a supermodels lingerie. But I think Axl, the band may like all the different material? For different reasons.

I get the impression Axl sees it like a job a lot. Like I have to play these songs and tries to get into them, but he also seems like he has a dream or some songs he wants out there. Duff I feel like he's proud of GNR, all the songs but has a few he likes to do. Slash just wants to rock. I always wondered what he likes to play the most. He's unreadable really. 

Sorum said Slash wanted to just noodle all over Contraband and they had to tame him a little which is ironic considering that album had way less Slash in it, lead playing that is.

He said he considers himself like a singer with the guitar. Marc said Slash made an aware decision early on just playing slower than what he technically is capable, probably cause melody is important to Slash.

He also said he doesn't like to stray too far from hard rock and that if you start to be too exotic it's not rock anymore. He changes it up a little with some scales and note choices but nothing too dramatic or different.

Still loves the same albums but I know he likes M.I.A and shit like that, he still enjoys some modern shit. (modern to Slash)

Factoring all that in, I'd say he likes to rock hard, playing bluesy hard rock and long ass solos. It's all there in Appetite imo. He likes to play a few ballads too, he even composed Gotten and he seems to appreciate the beauty in some softer pieces.

But mostly he just wants to fuckin' wail on a stage to a big crowd with a Les Paul and get paid. This is what Slash was born to do.

In the studio, when it comes to albums, I think if you listen to World On Fire, it's clear he prefers that the center of every song will be a riff unless it's a ballad, and there's always a guitar solo.

As long as it rocks hard enough, and doesn't contain too many keyboards, I'd say he doesn't care that much, he said World On Fire was like this giant huge thing of guitar ideas when it came to his work on it.

For him it's probably putting together notes that sound musical, the songs serve as only an excuse to fuckin' wail but he appreciates structure of melody, and just musical progression in a song. It doesn't seem to mean much to him, at least not in some deep level like Axl or even about the quality, the stage is more important to him imo which is why I think that if they work together they can kinda balance each other in the studio if Axl will allow.

Edited by Rovim
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6 hours ago, wasted said:

We all have our favorites. Mine change like a supermodels lingerie. But I think Axl, the band may like all the different material? For different reasons.

I get the impression Axl sees it like a job a lot. Like I have to play these songs and tries to get into them, but he also seems like he has a dream or some songs he wants out there. Duff I feel like he's proud of GNR, all the songs but has a few he likes to do. Slash just wants to rock. I always wondered what he likes to play the most. He's unreadable really. 

Ask yourself what is the best Guns album by far? Appetite. It is that simple!

Lies is too short. Illusion had some massive songs for the band but it had too much filler and was over produced. Chinese Democracy failed to resonate for many reasons which have been discussed many times here.

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The Stones hadn't worked on a new album in a while, but the songs that showed up on the reissues and greatest hits could be compiled to be a "new" Stones album. 

GNR were always collaborative in the studio, so we'll see what happens. I don't think Axl's going to have a hissy fit if hears a Conspirators album and feel it's the "property" of Guns N' Roses, which is what his line of thinking was 20 years ago. They all have 30 years of writing under them, it's just going to depend on what happens if and when they're working on new songs. Odds are they won't see each other in the studio and just send files back and forth, and then they'll work on those songs for tour rehearsals. That's what a lot of bands do unless they insist on being around each other, and the odds of it falling apart lessen. Slash and Duff have been "jamming" for 30 years, so it's just a matter of what they, Izzy, and Kushner also come up with. I think Dave's name will be on some of the songs as well. 

 

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14 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Ask yourself what is the best Guns album by far? Appetite. It is that simple!

Lies is too short. Illusion had some massive songs for the band but it had too much filler and was over produced. Chinese Democracy failed to resonate for many reasons which have been discussed many times here.

You missing the point though. Artistically you can't remake an album. Well you can but you then suck a little. I would phrase it like AFD is the most effective artistic statement. But didn't they nail disillusion of fame on UYI. But maybe it's flawed awesomeness. But you can't artistically keep repeating, and recapturing AFD. It would just diminish it's impact and meaning to try. They lived it, you can't go back. 

You are broadly assessing the records as product with sales figures attached. But UYI was their take on what they were going through. Same with CD. It's not just a matter of having Slash play riffs with the right tone and then sing about low life stuff. We can bitch but they tried their best and Axl was extra cautious on CD. 

Maybe your right and this artistic narrative over the records is for the birds. A better career would be just Slash riff centric albums and lyrics that kind of touch on similar themes. 

I blame Aerosmith for educating them, making GNR and Axl second guess their lifestyles. If they hadn't had those guys telling them  that stuff...but suddenly Izzy wants out and Axl is scared to rock or be a rock martyr. All those 90s bands go so self conscious. Cobain is the prime example but even Axl seemed to question his awesomeness after one record. 

I think it went alright they just need to cap it off with an LA Woman meets Hotel California. 

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25 minutes ago, wasted said:

You missing the point though. Artistically you can't remake an album. Well you can but you then suck a little. I would phrase it like AFD is the most effective artistic statement. But didn't they nail disillusion of fame on UYI. But maybe it's flawed awesomeness. But you can't artistically keep repeating, and recapturing AFD. It would just diminish it's impact and meaning to try. They lived it, you can't go back. 

You are broadly assessing the records as product with sales figures attached. But UYI was their take on what they were going through. Same with CD. It's not just a matter of having Slash play riffs with the right tone and then sing about low life stuff. We can bitch but they tried their best and Axl was extra cautious on CD. 

Maybe your right and this artistic narrative over the records is for the birds. A better career would be just Slash riff centric albums and lyrics that kind of touch on similar themes. 

I blame Aerosmith for educating them, making GNR and Axl second guess their lifestyles. If they hadn't had those guys telling them  that stuff...but suddenly Izzy wants out and Axl is scared to rock or be a rock martyr. All those 90s bands go so self conscious. Cobain is the prime example but even Axl seemed to question his awesomeness after one record. 

I think it went alright they just need to cap it off with an LA Woman meets Hotel California. 

You can put out a different album and stick to the same, or a similar style. You do not have to inherently put out the same album. Is Toys in the Attic the same album as Rocks? I would say no, yet broadly the two have similar styles, hard rock with a ballad apiece - Rocks being heavier, Toys more tuneful. And both are considered great, certified 'classics' - and sold well. I would say Highway to Hell is exactly the same as Powerage stylistically, balls to the wall sleazy hard rock, yet it is a different set of tunes with different riffs - again, both 'classics' and Highway sold bucketloads.

Bad is somewhat similar to Thriller, Master of Puppets as Ride the Lightning, A Day At The Races as A Night At the Opera yet all are different albums and fans appreciated the continuity of approach.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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36 minutes ago, dalsh327 said:

The Stones hadn't worked on a new album in a while, but the songs that showed up on the reissues and greatest hits could be compiled to be a "new" Stones album. 

GNR were always collaborative in the studio, so we'll see what happens. I don't think Axl's going to have a hissy fit if hears a Conspirators album and feel it's the "property" of Guns N' Roses, which is what his line of thinking was 20 years ago. They all have 30 years of writing under them, it's just going to depend on what happens if and when they're working on new songs. Odds are they won't see each other in the studio and just send files back and forth, and then they'll work on those songs for tour rehearsals. That's what a lot of bands do unless they insist on being around each other, and the odds of it falling apart lessen. Slash and Duff have been "jamming" for 30 years, so it's just a matter of what they, Izzy, and Kushner also come up with. I think Dave's name will be on some of the songs as well. 

 

But what songs by who? Axl has some stuff and CD era stuff. Then Slash must be putting some creavity into Conspritors. 

Possibly Slash is already working on new Guns stuff. But say he isn't and is happy to just help Axl with whatever he's got. But then Axl doesn't care. 

I think they might think they need Izzy to do this right?

but this new good relations and wave of positivity can only last that long before it turns sours. 

Or are the media (basically 80s rocker with "jobs") going to be happy to leave it as just the shows. It seems so accepted. 

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