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Muirfield Golf Club refuses to let women join


spunko12345

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I do not know anything about golf but this silliness occurred awhile back regarding Lord's. To be honest I respect the decision as these are 'private' member's clubs and have a right to prohibit who they want. So a bunch of soused old sexist gits want to enjoy whisky lunches that remain indefinitely sausage parties? They might be sexist old sods but they have a right to be sexist old sods, and it all merely raises a further conundrum? Why would females want to join a (gender) intolerant private members club? Even assuming these votes pass, they are going to pass marginally - why would women want to join such a place, where they remain, at best, a tolerated nuisance?

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3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Why would females want to join a (gender) intolerant private members club? Even assuming these votes pass, they are going to pass marginally - why would women want to join such a place, where they remain, at best, a tolerated nuisance?

 

Because Murfield is one of the top courses in the world.  Why should bigotry deny fifty percent of the population from playing one of the most esteemed golf courses in the world?

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Don't know anything about folded but… 

My parents married in 1988. Their wedding reception was at the local Con Club. They were there planning the day, and mum walked up to the bar, which caused much shock, horror and perturbment- they didn't realise that while even in Mrs. Thatcher's reign, women weren't allowed to order a drink for themselves. 

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1 hour ago, downzy said:

 

Because Murfield is one of the top courses in the world.  Why should bigotry deny fifty percent of the population from playing one of the most esteemed golf courses in the world?

It shouldn't. But why should a government mandate say a private club has to alter its rules of practice when it's not a necessity to life or liberty? 

You don't poke an eye when you've been poked. You tolerate the pain and wait for justice if you want to heal the fastest.

politics follows social action. Lay down righteousness and just lay together. The truth finds a way.

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Women can play the course if they are a visitor or a guest. We just can't join their club, and who would want to?

Soon all these old codgers will be in their nursing homes being looked after by women, waiting for death,  and things will change. 

In the meantime, let the old sexist buzzards jog on.

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Quite right too, they dont invade your Bridge evenings and sewing circles! :lol:

2 hours ago, Gracii Guns said:

Don't know anything about folded but… 

My parents married in 1988. Their wedding reception was at the local Con Club. They were there planning the day, and mum walked up to the bar, which caused much shock, horror and perturbment- they didn't realise that while even in Mrs. Thatcher's reign, women weren't allowed to order a drink for themselves. 

I would've thought it even more likely under Thatcher.  

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1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Women can play the course if they are a visitor or a guest. We just can't join their club, and who would want to?

Soon all these old codgers will be in their nursing homes being looked after by women, waiting for death,  and things will change. 

In the meantime, let the old sexist buzzards jog on.

'Sexist old buzzards' i like it :lol:

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6 hours ago, Sprite said:

It shouldn't. But why should a government mandate say a private club has to alter its rules of practice when it's not a necessity to life or liberty? 

You don't poke an eye when you've been poked. You tolerate the pain and wait for justice if you want to heal the fastest.

politics follows social action. Lay down righteousness and just lay together. The truth finds a way.

I do think the government should play a role when it comes to racist or sexist behaviour affecting individuals even within the private sphere.  Every company or sole proprietorship has a right to refuse a customer for no reason given.  But if a reason is given and it is based on racism or sexism, they lose that right.  It was wrong in the 1960s when businesses were turning away black people and it's wrong now.  Private club or private business, discrimination is and should be illegal whether de facto or in spirit.  

"Tolerate the pain and wait for justice..."  That's what African Americans did for decades before the 1960s civil rights protests.  Sometimes equality requires a certain level of justice.  It's easy to suggest a laissez-fair approach when you and your group benefit from unequal power advantages, another when you're disadvantaged by the same system.

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9 hours ago, downzy said:

 

Because Murfield is one of the top courses in the world.  Why should bigotry deny fifty percent of the population from playing one of the most esteemed golf courses in the world?

Well as I said, I do not know the specifics of this individual case, my knowledge of golf being paltry and just about reduced to ''somebody called Tiger Woods shagging blondes'', but I will always defend the right of a private members club to decide their own admission policy - this is not the government sphere, what governments should be interfering with.

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Well as I said, I do not know the specifics of this individual case, my knowledge of golf being paltry and just about reduced to ''somebody called Tiger Woods shagging blondes'', but I will always defend the right of a private members club to decide their own admission policy - this is not the government sphere, what governments should be interfering with.

Personally, I have no problem how a club sets its admissions policy so long as it's not on the basis of race or sex.  

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3 minutes ago, downzy said:

Personally, I have no problem how a club sets its admissions policy so long as it's not on the basis of race or sex.  

Do you feel similar about the Women's institute, blokes clamouring to partake of Jam and Jerusalem? And what about sewing clubs and women's book reading groups, etc. What about racist far-right political parties and activist groups? They would presumably be prohibited completely if they were made accountable for their equality (or lack of)? I disagree with their racism and politics but I will defend their right to exist.

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I remember this episode of Steptoe and Son where he finds out his Dad starred in soft porn as a young man

HAROLD: You know very well how long I've been trying to get into the Acton Hills golf club, they're very choosy you know.  No Irish, no Semite, no Commonwealth...and certainly no sons of silent porn stars!

:lol:

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Do you feel similar about the Women's institute, blokes clamouring to partake of Jam and Jerusalem? And what about sewing clubs and women's book reading groups, etc. What about racist far-right political parties and activist groups? They would presumably be prohibited completely if they were made accountable for their equality (or lack of)? I disagree with their racism and politics but I will defend their right to exist.

I'm gonna try and join Britain First :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

I remember this episode of Steptoe and Son where he finds out his Dad starred in soft porn as a young man

HAROLD: You know very well how long I've been trying to get into the Acton Hills golf club, they're very choosy you know.  No Irish, no Semite, no Commonwealth...and certainly no sons of silent porn stars!

:lol:

I'm gonna try and join Britain First :lol:

Well there were those moments when the BNP or somebody else would periodically wheel out a 'token black person' at election time: ''look at us - we have black people and therefore aren't racist''.

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10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Do you feel similar about the Women's institute, blokes clamouring to partake of Jam and Jerusalem? And what about sewing clubs and women's book reading groups, etc. What about racist far-right political parties and activist groups? They would presumably be prohibited completely if they were made accountable for their equality (or lack of)? I disagree with their racism and politics but I will defend their right to exist.

I have no problem with health institutions that focus on women's health (or men's health), but I do not think people should be excluded from participating or belonging on the basis of skin colour or sex.  

Why can't a man join a sewing club if that's what he wants to do?  Why wouldn't a book club that's predominantly populated by women want a male perspective?  

As for racist far-right political groups, something tells me minorities wanting to join isn't a real scenario or something that deserves consideration with respect to what we're talking about.  I personally have problems with prohibiting fascist and racist political organizations if their intended purpose is the subjugation fellow citizens on the basis of ethnicity, race, gender or sex.  People are welcome to be racist and espouse racist views, but I do believe in limits with respect to institutionalization and normalization through organization.  I get that's a controversial opinion, but we've seen such reactions to hate groups in most western develop nations.  But again, we're moving away from the topic at hand.

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Quote

Why can't a man join a sewing club if that's what he wants to do?

Cuz he'd look a right pranny :lol:

Quote

Why wouldn't a book club that's predominantly populated by women want a male perspective?  

Cuz they make em to get away from their fellas!

Quote

Well there were those moments when the BNP or somebody else would periodically wheel out a 'token black person' at election time: ''look at us - we have black people and therefore aren't racist''.

I DON'T BLAME ABDUL HERE, NAH, NAH, ABDULS ALRIGHT, HE'S A GOOD LAD, MAKES A BLINDING CURRY, I BLAME THE CONSERVATIVES! :lol:

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3 minutes ago, downzy said:

I have not problem with health institutions that focus on women's health (or men's health), but I do think people should be excluded from participating or belonging on the basis of skin colour or sex.  

Why can't a man join a sewing club if that's what he wants to do?  Why wouldn't a book club that's predominantly populated by women want a male perspective?  

As for racist far-right political groups, something tells me minorities wanting to join isn't a real scenario or something that deserves consideration with respect to what we're talking about.  I personally have problem with prohibiting fascist and racist political organizations if their intended purpose is the subjugation fellow citizens on the basis of ethnicity, race, gender or sex.  People are welcome to be racist and espouse racist views, but I do believe in limits with respect to institutionalization and normalization through organization.  I get that's a controversial opinion, but we've seen such reactions to hate groups in most western develop nations.  But again, we're moving away from the topic at hand.

I do not agree. I believe everyone should have the right to assemble in any grouping they desire, unhindered by government intrusion. 

I'm starting a men's campaign for admission to my sewing club. You've heard this here first chaps. Who is with me? WHAT DO WE WANT? SEWING! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW.

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Just now, Len B'stard said:

And what about gender segregation in mosques and that?

I'm heavily biased against organization religion (particularly Judeo-Christian) to begin with, especially relating to their treatment of women and men, so probably not a conversation worth having :P

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I do not agree. I believe everyone should have the right to assemble in any grouping they desire, unhindered by government intrusion. 

I'm starting a men's campaign for admission to my sewing club. You've heard this here first chaps. Who is with me? WHAT DO WE WANT? SEWING! WHEN DO WE WANT IT? NOW.

Nah, sewing is for broads :P

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Just now, downzy said:

I'm heavily biased against organization religion (particularly Judeo-Christian) to begin with, especially relating to their treatment of women and men, so probably not a conversation worth having :P

But point being you can't go around telling people how to behave like that, it doesn't end well, know what I mean?  I mean try telling some of these hard-headed old Arabs that they've got to do Friday prayers with Fatima the tea lady sitting next to em, see how far you get :lol:

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5 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

But point being you can't go around telling people how to behave like that, it doesn't end well, know what I mean?  I mean try telling some of these hard-headed old Arabs that they've got to do Friday prayers with Fatima the tea lady sitting next to em, see how far you get :lol:

Which is why I don't go out of my way to tell anyone how to live, unless I'm asked or we're having an open discussion about it.  

I know nothing I say will ever change anyone else's behaviour, but at the same time, I don't view favourably upon those whose actions and judgements are based on arbitrary prejudices.  I don't subscribe to the argument, "please be a little more accepting about my prejudice."

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I just think that, as long as you ain't disadvantaged in the workplace or like...y'know, not afforded meaningful oppertunities or not allowed to get on in the world, there's nothing wrong with wanting to gather like...jews with jews, muslims with muslims, birds with birds, blokes with blokes.  But then i get your point with golf clubs its bordering on the institutional isn't it?  But i don't think you can go too far with this shit with ending up being dictatorial about stuff. 

 

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There's really no place for this mentality in 21st Century Scotland, the leader of our country's a woman, the leaders of the three largest opposition parties (if you include Maggie Chapman, co-convenor of the Greens) are all women... Women are well-represented in every sphere of public life here,  and we should continue to pride ourselves on inclusivity rather than its opposite. 

I haven't seen any reasonably articulated argument from any of the members who opposed the decision, just that it is apparently a "very emotive issue"... Not good enough. If you're going to make such a decision then you should at least be able to justify why you made it.

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