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What went wrong with NUGNR?


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Btw, if he didn't care for hits, why join GNR to begin with? He obviously did care about hits, being in a prominent band, and making a name for himself. If he wasn't  interested, he wouldn't have  been a hired gun.  This reminds me of what the fanbase of Nirvana would say.  

Edited by Draguns
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On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 6:29 PM, -W.A.R- said:

it was doomed from the start as i think Axl alienated the core base by bringing out a freakshow lineup

that image just wasn't GNR and ppl that may have been interested in a odd ball band like that probably wouldn't take them seriously  

it certainly didn't help that Chinese became something of a myth....he should have pushed it out way earlier

Axl didn't alienate the fans any more than Izzy or Slash did when they did their own thing.  That is such a silly concept to me, and granted, it is a very common one.  It's simply a thought process I cannot understand. 

Did Axl alienate the fans when he sang with Tom Petty?  That wasn't the original lineup, maybe when he did the song with Alice cooper?  Either Under my Wheels or The Garden, both were not the original lineup.  Did he alienate his fan base when he sang on Gilby's album?  On Baz's?  Look how alienated the crowd looks in the OP's video...

It's the same as if they stopped making Peanut butter cups and a certain segment of the population decided that they now needed to hate either chocolate or peanut butter, the thought never crosses their mind to enjoy them both separately. 

"Peanut butter is awesome man, chocolate fucking sucks."

"You ever have a hot fudge sundae? "

"Fuck that dude, I won't even try that shit.  Chocolate alienated me as a fan and it isn't shit unless it's standing next to peanut butter."

 

The main problem with NuGnR was lack of album production.   Plain and simple.  Album production would have reduced band turnover, it would have kept them in the spotlight.  Look at Slash, he pumps out songs like Octomom plops out kids and he stayed a household name, were all the songs winners?  No.  Were any of them on Par with GnR original material? I guess you could argue a few were, but mostly, no.  But Slash became an icon because of production.

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3 minutes ago, DeadSlash said:

Axl didn't alienate the fans any more than Izzy or Slash did when they did their own thing.  That is such a silly concept to me, and granted, it is a very common one.  It's simply a thought process I cannot understand. 

Did Axl alienate the fans when he sang with Tom Petty?  That wasn't the original lineup, maybe when he did the song with Alice cooper?  Either Under my Wheels or The Garden, both were not the original lineup.  Did he alienate his fan base when he sang on Gilby's album?  On Baz's?  Look how alienated the crowd looks in the OP's video...

It's the same as if they stopped making Peanut butter cups and a certain segment of the population decided that they now needed to hate either chocolate or peanut butter, the thought never crosses their mind to enjoy them both separately. 

"Peanut butter is awesome man, chocolate fucking sucks."

"You ever have a hot fudge sundae? "

"Fuck that dude, I won't even try that shit.  Chocolate alienated me as a fan and it isn't shit unless it's standing next to peanut butter."

 

The main problem with NuGnR was lack of album production.   Plain and simple.  Album production would have reduced band turnover, it would have kept them in the spotlight.  Look at Slash, he pumps out songs like Octomom plops out kids and he stayed a household name, were all the songs winners?  No.  Were any of them on Par with GnR original material? I guess you could argue a few were, but mostly, no.  But Slash became an icon because of production.

You are talking about two different things. Of course Axl didn't alienate fans for playing with Alice Cooper, Tom Petty, Gilby, Don Henley, Mick Jagger, etc. They weren't in Guns N' Roses. The name definitely  affected it. You can't say that. Slash created another band along with having a solo record, and performing.  There were multitude of factors why nu-GNR failed.  

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Just now, Draguns said:

You are talking about two different things. Of course Axl didn't alienate fans for playing with Alice Cooper, Tom Petty, Gilby, Don Henley, Mick Jagger, etc. They weren't in Guns N' Roses. The name definitely  affected it. You can't say that. Slash created another band along with having a solo record, and performing.  There were multitude of factors why nu-GNR failed.  

That's a common and fair rebuttal, but I just don't buy that. I don't buy the fact that if Axl didn't use the name it would have been a success. 

For the sake of argument, let's say I accept that, that if he used a different name, it would have been a different outcome.  That is even sadder in my opinion, to even hint at the fact that one might like a song based on the band name and not the song itself. That's being a music snob, not a music fan. 

"Woah, this song is really awesome, who is this?"

"It's GnR!"

"Never mind, I hate it now, It's not the original lineup, I feel alienated.  It's too bad too because if the band name was 'Blooming Rose' I would have really liked this song, it's fucking awesome... err I mean it would have been if the band name didn't alienate me." 

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1 minute ago, DeadSlash said:

That's a common and fair rebuttal, but I just don't buy that. I don't buy the fact that if Axl didn't use the name it would have been a success. 

For the sake of argument, let's say I accept that, that if he used a different name, it would have been a different outcome.  That is even sadder in my opinion, to even hint at the fact that one might like a song based on the band name and not the song itself. That's being a music snob, not a music fan. 

"Woah, this song is really awesome, who is this?"

"It's GnR!"

"Never mind, I hate it now, It's not the original lineup, I feel alienated.  It's too bad too because if the band name was 'Blooming Rose' I would have really liked this song, it's fucking awesome... err I mean it would have been if the band name didn't alienate me." 

Whether you want to believe it or not, the reality of the situation was that the name affected  how people viewed the new version of GNR.  People viewed the name as having quality music. People associated the name of Guns N' Roses with Axl, Slash and even Duff. Heck, "The Simpsons" named their fictional beer after Duff. If Axl called it something else, the name wouldn't have been one of many reasons why it failed. The name played a HUGE  factor, but it was one of a plethora of reasons why NuGNR failed. 

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51 minutes ago, Draguns said:

His style just doesn't interests me whatsoever. There's a reason why he has made 70+ albums and not made a hit out of  any of them. 

I bought one of them when I was trying to get on the NuGnR train... It sucked... I still have an Ipod and can't skip it fast enough when a song comes on. Seems to happen often too.

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2 hours ago, DeadSlash said:

Axl didn't alienate the fans any more than Izzy or Slash did when they did their own thing.  That is such a silly concept to me, and granted, it is a very common one.  It's simply a thought process I cannot understand.

Axl changed the band from this

125385.jpg

to something that looked like a Juggalo jumpoff and put out a song that sounded like

Izzy and Slash never went through any radical changes like this. their music stayed within hard rock/blues rock and they're image/style stayed the same aswell

Edited by -W.A.R-
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27 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

Axl changed the band from this

125385.jpg

to something that looked like a Juggalo jumpoff and put out a song that sounded like

Izzy and Slash never went through any radical changes like this. their music stayed within hard rock/blues rock and they're image/style stayed the same aswell

 

That is one song, no different than My World was one song and on the Illusions albums.  I think it's hard to argue this is what the music became.  CD sounded more like illusions era music than this.

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1 hour ago, Draguns said:

Whether you want to believe it or not, the reality of the situation was that the name affected  how people viewed the new version of GNR.  People viewed the name as having quality music. People associated the name of Guns N' Roses with Axl, Slash and even Duff. Heck, "The Simpsons" named their fictional beer after Duff. If Axl called it something else, the name wouldn't have been one of many reasons why it failed. The name played a HUGE  factor, but it was one of a plethora of reasons why NuGNR failed. 

No, I believe it, I just don't agree with it.  The concept of me hearing a new Poison song, for example, thinking it was awesome, but deciding I hated it when I found out CC was replaced is absurd to me.  I understand it's a real thing, I just think it's insanity.

I also think that if they pumped out albums, it would have been mitigated to some degree.  People would have had more chances to like songs and there would be a catalogue from the new lineup, eventually people would relent and accept that that was what GnR is now. 

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8 minutes ago, DeadSlash said:

That is one song, no different than My World was one song and on the Illusions albums.  I think it's hard to argue this is what the music became.  CD sounded more like illusions era music than this.

and what GNR fan liked My World? LOL

as they say first impressions is everything and that song and seeing a guy with a KFC bucket on his head and some guy with a freakaziod haircut was the first impression

 

Edited by -W.A.R-
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1 minute ago, -W.A.R- said:

and what GNR fan liked My World? LOL

as they say first impressions is everything and that song and seeing a guy with a KFC bucket on his head and some guy with a freakaziod haircut was the first impression

 

How people felt about the song isn't the issue, nor my point.  The point was the OMG was not "out of the blue"  We saw that type of music on Illusions, but really the entire point is moot, because OMG and my world are the only songs that sound like that.  CD was not an album of OMG songs.

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4 hours ago, DeadSlash said:

How people felt about the song isn't the issue, nor my point.  The point was the OMG was not "out of the blue"  We saw that type of music on Illusions, but really the entire point is moot, because OMG and my world are the only songs that sound like that.  CD was not an album of OMG songs.

arguing about music with NuGNR is moot period as there is so little of it and it took forever to come out

i reject the point that fans were already prepared for that type of music based on a 1 minute song on Illusions that nobody liked and what ended up being of CD 8 years later is irrelevant IMO. its well known Axl was heavy into industrial and wanted to take Guns in that route...that was his original plan

but the main thing was the physical image of the band was offputting and made for bad first impression and it didn't matter that he switched up the sound later on because Finicks haircut was still burnt into peoples brain and GNR was pretty much a running joke

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2 hours ago, Draguns said:

His style just doesn't interests me whatsoever. There's a reason why he has made 70+ albums and not made a hit out of  any of them. 

1151.jpg

 

 

Nu Guns didn't take off because it insisted on continuing being a nostalgia act, instead of trying to be its own unique being which could flourish.  Make a group out of Axl, Bucket, Brain, Fortus & Stinson without the baggage of the older incarnation of the band, and a lot of magic could have come out of it.  Potential majorly wasted.

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Personally I didn't care if he called it GNR but calling it GNR seemed to add a lot of pressure and expectations Axl didn't seem confident he could live up to, so he spent a decade cycling through producers and musicians, tinkering with the same songs. If he called the band something else, maybe he doesn't feel as much pressure to make a perfect album. Or maybe he should have just sucked it up, put music out there, let it be judged as it will and move onto the next record. If they'd actually released some albums they may have gotten a following or won over some old GNR fans. If the new"NuGNR" failed it's because NuGNR didn't actually do anything. Even the release of Chinese Democracy felt more like "I give up, here it is" than anything that was meant to mean something.

Edited by Modano09
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ive listened to Bucket and think hes a great player

but lets be honest his gimmick is a bit corny and you don't replace a cool guy like Slash with him and expect to be taken seriously as GNR 

Edited by -W.A.R-
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I hate the term "NuGNR".

I think Axl could personally drive up to my door and offer me the entire contents of this mythical "vault" to do with as I please, and I would still be angry with him for getting me onboard with the CD era of the band and then fucking it up as badly as he did. 

Still so disappointed.

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On May 23, 2016 at 9:44 PM, PappyTron said:

Buckethead is very much a great guitarist; a virtuoso and one of the best in the world. However, his image in not really in line with what old time fans of the band were looking for, and that weighed against him, no matter how phenomenal his playing.

ugh, you can wear blinders on, but in all honesty GNR were the 5 original members who fed off eachother. BH was "transplanted" into the band as Axl thought he was/is an amazing guitarist.

I personally can't stand him--not only visually (it made GNR look like a joke) but he seems all technical vs. Slash is sensual/musical/lyrical...something you can really groove to. I am TEAM AXL but when I saw SLASH up on stage in Las Vegas (not only did my heart grow like the Grinch's) but I further appreciated the VITAL role he plays in GNR

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The "technical vs emotional" argument basically translates to comparing a guy who puts a conscious effort into mastering sharp, tactful playing under diverse styles, tones and tempos to put on the best performance possible to a guy who phones it in, but is trying really really hard  :awesomeface:

Slash stans are admirable for their devotion though

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25 minutes ago, Gackt said:

Nu Guns didn't take off because it insisted on continuing being a nostalgia act, instead of trying to be its own unique being which could flourish.  Make a group out of Axl, Bucket, Brain, Fortus & Stinson without the baggage of the older incarnation of the band, and a lot of magic could have come out of it.  Potential majorly wasted.

in other words Axl should have created a new band with a different name :P

Edited by -W.A.R-
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3 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

in other words Axl should have created a new band :P

Exactly, drop the Guns label like a bad habit and start fresh instead of trying to carry on a legacy that would be obviously polarizing to a large chunk of the older fans still carrying on, and wouldn't interest newer fans

The Axl = GnR mentality wouldn't let that ever happen though

Edited by Gackt
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50 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

and what GNR fan liked My World? LOL

as they say first impressions is everything and that song and seeing a guy with a KFC bucket on his head and some guy with a freakaziod haircut was the first impression

 

Apparently the Sean Beavan version of Chinese Democracy was full of industrial songs like OMG. That's the "2000 intentions" album that was supposed to come out in '99 or 2000. That's when Interscope brought in Queen's producer to rework everything. It's too bad -- I wish Axl had a chance to make his industrial album. I don't think Chinese Democracy turned out the way he wanted it to -- the 2008 release was probably very different than what he originally envisioned.

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17 minutes ago, coolranchdressing! said:

ugh, you can wear blinders on, but in all honesty GNR were the 5 original members who fed off eachother. BH was "transplanted" into the band as Axl thought he was/is an amazing guitarist.

I personally can't stand him--not only visually (it made GNR look like a joke) but he seems all technical vs. Slash is sensual/musical/lyrical...something you can really groove to. I am TEAM AXL but when I saw SLASH up on stage in Las Vegas (not only did my heart grow like the Grinch's) but I further appreciated the VITAL role he plays in GNR

It has nothing to do with having blinders on. I was replying to a person who said that Buckethead is a good guitarist, not a great guitarist, which is a frankly absurd statement to make. Whether you feel that he was a good fit for the band, or for the image of the band or whatever is a different discussion, but one thing that cannot be questioned is Buckethead's ability to play the guitar.

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The whole idea that Bucket is dominating CD needs to be looked at. 

The way I see it his songs are Shackler's, Scraped, Sorry as far as I can make out. 

He does a great solo on ITW and I think Twat. Axl wrote the riff on Twat I believe. 

I think the main problem for metal fans is that CD doesn't have that powerful feeling you get from a guitarist taking the reigns of the album and really giving it an assued feeling. 

Finck's songs have been more successful?

Chi dem - okay Freese wrote the riff but Robin plays it. 

Better - Finck/Fortus

This I Love - Finck rocks the solo. 

SOD - Finck has writing credits. He also plays solo on Twat like Bucket. 

So the role of the guitarists isn't really central to CD. It's very percussive. It's a drum and vocals album. There's great guitar work but it's not guitar driven to me. 

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