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What went wrong with NUGNR?


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1 hour ago, Rovim said:

A lot of what makes it Chinese makes it less Gn'R or it's not really Guns in that old school way, even if it has Gn'R elements on every song.

Like most of the shit I want from a new album from an old band is there in some form and if it's not, there is something new to enjoy replacing a loved Gn'R element or going to 11 to compensate for the lack of Slash.

The problem is that you can't really replace whatever Slash is doing or Izzy, etc in such a collaborative band musically speaking cause everyone had a chance to imprint their sound and style on it in old Guns in such a way that formed something that felt like one super Guns monster.

I think if in old Guns everyone was more open to try to work on songs they didn't like that other members brought in, it would have given them a chance to find something that worked for everyone or at least a compromise. Just like November Rain and Estranged that Slash, Duff, and Matt didn't really want to work on.

Or Oh My God that Duff and Matt rejected.

Slash's Snakepit, and I don't say that as a fan of that album, should have been worked on and I feel that neither side really dealt with that in a proper way.

Chinese is a strange hybrid of what an Axl solo album would have been if he tried to make a Guns album. I kinda assume that if Axl didn't believe he could do everything he wanted musically with Slash and Duff in the band, he wouldn't even consider a half reunion.

If he managed to put together such a varied puzzle with Chinese, maybe he wants to finally put Slash on all that forward thinking and with an actual audience this time to sell it to. Nobody really listened with objective ears.

Last thing: if he releases another Guns album with Slash and Duff, Chinese could be looked at differently in the future. I think people will give it a listen without really caring about any of the baggage even more.

I wouldn't replace Chinese for any album. It works, Axl pulled it off. The next logical phase now will be to get it right with Slash and Duff, do a long tour and voila!

It's possible though that CD was Axl's statement of look I can make a great GNR without Slash, and look at their underwhelmning solo stuff, and you he could tour successfully as GNR until CD era was over.

And now he's just cashing in on everything. But it wasn't until CD was established that he could face bringing Slash back. CD made it possible for Axl Rose to exist in the 21st century. 

But they still could do a CD II meets UYI III type album to cap it all off. But it would be like the first repeat album GNR have done?

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8 minutes ago, wasted said:

It's possible though that CD was Axl's statement of look I can make a great GNR without Slash, and look at their underwhelmning solo stuff, and you he could tour successfully as GNR until CD era was over.

And now he's just cashing in on everything. But it wasn't until CD was established that he could face bringing Slash back. CD made it possible for Axl Rose to exist in the 21st century. 

But they still could do a CD II meets UYI III type album to cap it all off. But it would be like the first repeat album GNR have done?

I still maintain that GNR's next move should be to release the remix record sometime during this tour and add some remixes to the setlist. Then release CD II for the next full scale tour. If nothing else this should shore up the CD era contingent and help satisfy their demand for some sort of continuity. Then after emptying the vaults of CD and once Slash and Duff have established their loyalty and devotion to GNR they can maybe start thinking about contributing in a creative capacity.

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29 minutes ago, Mr. Dude said:

I don't think anything went wrong. Axl played it about as well as he could've played it. Now it seems like he's going to have his cake and eat it too. He  proved the victor in the dick waving contest and now that all opposition has conceded defeat he's cool to be friends again, but you first, then you, then learn these GNR songs. Welcome to my band Part Deux.

I think so. Given the situation he played it about right. 5 albums and videos would only happen with label support of the release. 

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Well Ive got nothing against the people who love the 2010 line up, but really what contribution did they even have? How can you love them who have hardly contributed to the GNR name.

The band broke up in 1993, that was like more than 20 years ago, most of us were not even there that time, but till today we know and love GNR cause of the lineup back then, they made that music which made GNR famous.

I do like CD, people would hate me but I do like the songs on that album, but still how can some of you say that 2010 lineup was better than the classic lineup? thats what weird to me.

Its not about Ashba or Fortus, I like Sixx AM, I think they have some really great songs, but what the hell did Ashba even contributed to GNR? Frank Ferrer just re re recorded the parts, Fortus literally had no contribution. Robin and Bucket did a great job, but they themselves don't even care about GNR. They knew they were just hired hands.

 

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15 minutes ago, Mr. Dude said:

I still maintain that GNR's next move should be to release the remix record sometime during this tour and add some remixes to the setlist. Then release CD II for the next full scale tour. If nothing else this should shore up the CD era contingent and help satisfy their demand for some sort of continuity. Then after emptying the vaults of CD and once Slash and Duff have established their loyalty and devotion to GNR they can maybe start thinking about contributing in a creative capacity.

I would put Slash versions of Chi dem, Better and This I Love on the remix album too. maybe 1 new CD era track with Slash and Duff on it to act as a single.

"Delicious Gruel" - Remixes, Alternative versions and Rarities

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54 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

Well Ive got nothing against the people who love the 2010 line up, but really what contribution did they even have? How can you love them who have hardly contributed to the GNR name.

The band broke up in 1993, that was like more than 20 years ago, most of us were not even there that time, but till today we know and love GNR cause of the lineup back then, they made that music which made GNR famous.

I do like CD, people would hate me but I do like the songs on that album, but still how can some of you say that 2010 lineup was better than the classic lineup? thats what weird to me.

Its not about Ashba or Fortus, I like Sixx AM, I think they have some really great songs, but what the hell did Ashba even contributed to GNR? Frank Ferrer just re re recorded the parts, Fortus literally had no contribution. Robin and Bucket did a great job, but they themselves don't even care about GNR. They knew they were just hired hands.

 

I think it's just they were consistent line up for a few years with some likable members like Ron and Fortus, and stalwarts like Tommy and Dizzy. Plus they put on 3 hour shows from 09-14. They Did some fun stuff like Vegas and were easier to identify with and less threatening or annoying to older fans. Fans grew attached to them. But they never got a chance in the studio. Maybe because Axl saw the way forward was backwards. 

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1 minute ago, wasted said:

I think it's just they were consistent line up for a few years with some likable members like Ron and Fortus, and stalwarts like Tommy and Dizzy. Plus they put on 3 hour shows from 09-14. They Did some fun stuff like Vegas and were easier to identify with and less threatening or annoying to older fans. Fans grew attached to them. But they never got a chance in the studio. Maybe because Axl saw the way forward was backwards. 

I met and hung around with them expect for Tommy, Axl and Pitman. But all of them were really nice and cool to me especially Ashba and Ron. But still it was weird for me to see them as GNR. 

Tommy was pretty rude and drunk.

But its just weird when people say that they are better than the Classic or UYI line up. 

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49 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

I would listen to it and hope it comes out at some point but a CD remix album is pretty low on the totem pole of "wants" for me.

I also think it'd make a pretty awful next release.

I don't see it as a remix album. It has or had alt versions and remixes of unreleased songs. It made more sense if you could add Dj solos and or Goin' Down, Oh My God, Silkworms, Shackler's remix, Better Gone, Better Dj, This I Love etc. 

I'm pretty sure the label will want a Slash hard rock record or Best of. 

But if Slash and Duff did their versions of Chi dem, Better, TIL, TWAT and we got some CD era songs and 4 new tracks it could make a cool 10 track cd? Something you can buy at GNR shows. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

I met and hung around with them expect for Tommy, Axl and Pitman. But all of them were really nice and cool to me especially Ashba and Ron. But still it was weird for me to see them as GNR. 

Tommy was pretty rude and drunk.

But its just weird when people say that they are better than the Classic or UYI line up. 

I would say that the 09 show was better show than 2000ish show and the 91 show I saw. The band was pretty tight for 3 hours. Axl carried the 91 show, there was a lack of cohesion or passion. It was routine. 2000 show was weird. Entertaining but weird. 

Better is subjective. More successful? No. 

The AFD line up was special and lightening in a bottle. That's what all the fuss is about. But they didn't prove it over a long career so it's almost like a myth. They only made one record, so did the Bucket line up, so if you like CD more than AFD then it's confusing. 

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8 hours ago, wasted said:

But they still could do a CD II meets UYI III type album to cap it all off. But it would be like the first repeat album GNR have done?

I think the most challenging part is moving forward now thematically and musically to a lesser extent. My guess is if they'll create the "right" product, there will be demand (at least like any other hard rock album nowdays) and support from the label.

Musically it needs to be a  melting pot again. There seems to be a lot to work with, enough material, but it's not just finding cool Slash riffs and solos, it wasn't for Chinese either but those must be a part of it too of course.

The problem is last time when they needed to say something new without Izzy they couldn't do it or didn't really want to.

Now, let's just say for a second Axl wants to release another Guns album. They want to do it now, on the same page before it's too late.

It's an exciting scenario. I'd like them to really go for it and yeah... a CD ll meets UYI lll type album basically means to me it's Axl songs and ideas that he believes in that are already there plus Slash numbers and leads.

If it repeats itself that will be a total failure. Axl has never failed before, it's like every angle worked for every Guns album, but now a lot has changed including the band members and I gotta ask myself: can they really agree on a musical vision that Axl will lead and release it without it sucking or being pathetic? feels like there's something left unsaid for Gn'R, but it's gotta reflect something new and fresh and not just a victory lap musically I hate it when bands do that. Like even if you get something pretty cool, what's the point if it's the same thing over and over again and not even that good in the first place? what's the point in 7 Slash albums?

I think Slash wants to prove he can bring it one more time and the three of them are a good team that can make a great album with the rest of the lineup. Axl aims pretty high, even if it's just a hard rock album with no bullshit, or less it could still be great.

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12 hours ago, Rovim said:

I think the most challenging part is moving forward now thematically and musically to a lesser extent. My guess is if they'll create the "right" product, there will be demand (at least like any other hard rock album nowdays) and support from the label.

Musically it needs to be a  melting pot again. There seems to be a lot to work with, enough material, but it's not just finding cool Slash riffs and solos, it wasn't for Chinese either but those must be a part of it too of course.

The problem is last time when they needed to say something new without Izzy they couldn't do it or didn't really want to.

Now, let's just say for a second Axl wants to release another Guns album. They want to do it now, on the same page before it's too late.

It's an exciting scenario. I'd like them to really go for it and yeah... a CD ll meets UYI lll type album basically means to me it's Axl songs and ideas that he believes in that are already there plus Slash numbers and leads.

If it repeats itself that will be a total failure. Axl has never failed before, it's like every angle worked for every Guns album, but now a lot has changed including the band members and I gotta ask myself: can they really agree on a musical vision that Axl will lead and release it without it sucking or being pathetic? feels like there's something left unsaid for Gn'R, but it's gotta reflect something new and fresh and not just a victory lap musically I hate it when bands do that. Like even if you get something pretty cool, what's the point if it's the same thing over and over again and not even that good in the first place? what's the point in 7 Slash albums?

I think Slash wants to prove he can bring it one more time and the three of them are a good team that can make a great album with the rest of the lineup. Axl aims pretty high, even if it's just a hard rock album with no bullshit, or less it could still be great.

That basically sums it. It's not just about releasing material. That could happen later or if they start putting out Anthologies and rarities packages. The CD Boxset, Illusion boxset. 

Thematically is really the biggest problem for a new album. 

But from the live show vids I did hear some kind of style that line up has, with Frank playing wild with Slash kicking up a sandstorm. 

But again there's very few pure Slash songs.

Civil War, Garden of Eden, Don't Damn Me, Locomotive, Coma is his side. 

You could say just hand the album over to Slash but that's what his solo stuff is? So then you go back to the CD era melting pot with Slash on lead. Lots of different writers but maybe only Fortus and Slash on guitar. There might be a couple pure Axl/Slash songs. 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Rovim said:

I think the most challenging part is moving forward now thematically and musically to a lesser extent. My guess is if they'll create the "right" product, there will be demand (at least like any other hard rock album nowdays) and support from the label.

Musically it needs to be a  melting pot again. There seems to be a lot to work with, enough material, but it's not just finding cool Slash riffs and solos, it wasn't for Chinese either but those must be a part of it too of course.

The problem is last time when they needed to say something new without Izzy they couldn't do it or didn't really want to.

Now, let's just say for a second Axl wants to release another Guns album. They want to do it now, on the same page before it's too late.

It's an exciting scenario. I'd like them to really go for it and yeah... a CD ll meets UYI lll type album basically means to me it's Axl songs and ideas that he believes in that are already there plus Slash numbers and leads.

If it repeats itself that will be a total failure. Axl has never failed before, it's like every angle worked for every Guns album, but now a lot has changed including the band members and I gotta ask myself: can they really agree on a musical vision that Axl will lead and release it without it sucking or being pathetic? feels like there's something left unsaid for Gn'R, but it's gotta reflect something new and fresh and not just a victory lap musically I hate it when bands do that. Like even if you get something pretty cool, what's the point if it's the same thing over and over again and not even that good in the first place? what's the point in 7 Slash albums?

I think Slash wants to prove he can bring it one more time and the three of them are a good team that can make a great album with the rest of the lineup. Axl aims pretty high, even if it's just a hard rock album with no bullshit, or less it could still be great.

That basically sums it. It's not just about releasing material. That could happen later or if they start putting out Anthologies and rarities packages. The CD Boxset, Illusion boxset. 

Thematically is really the biggest problem for a new album. 

But from the live show vids I did hear some kind of style that line up has, with Frank playing wild with Slash kicking up a sandstorm. 

But again there's very few pure Slash songs.

Civil War, Garden of Eden, Don't Damn Me, Locomotive, Coma is his side. 

You could say just hand the album over to Slash but that's what his solo stuff is? So then you go back to the CD era melting pot with Slash on lead. Lots of different writers but maybe only Fortus and Slash on guitar. There might be a couple pure Axl/Slash songs. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

Slash

From Axl's pov that was probably true. Slash wouldn't collab on Snakepit material, Slash leaves and gains fans and media support which makes it hard for Axl to really be successful as GNR, not to mention the lawsuits and other legal stuff. 

The lack of Slash was nu Guns main problem. And now Hybrid GNR shows that as along as Slash is onboard the hostility has subsided and people even think nu Guns songs are better. 

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4 minutes ago, wasted said:

From Axl's pov that was probably true. Slash wouldn't collab on Snakepit material, Slash leaves and gains fans and media support which makes it hard for Axl to really be successful as GNR, not to mention the lawsuits and other legal stuff. 

The lack of Slash was nu Guns main problem. And now Hybrid GNR shows that as along as Slash is onboard the hostility has subsided and people even think nu Guns songs are better. 

You also added fuel to the fire when you said Slash is getting a star on the very street on which Axl Rose one day will be sleeping on. So you decide that on who's side you are on, with Slash you take his side and say things about Axl, but before this reunion I clearly remember how you always sided with Axl and said things about Slash, but now you are saying that its so awesome Slash is back, I know its the drugs speaking, but stick to one thing. 

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17 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

You also added fuel to the fire when you said Slash is getting a star on the very street on which Axl Rose one day will be sleeping on. So you decide that on who's side you are on, with Slash you take his side and say things about Axl, but before this reunion I clearly remember how you always sided with Axl and said things about Slash, but now you are saying that its so awesome Slash is back, I know its the drugs speaking, but stick to one thing. 

I've always been a reunionist Axl nutswinger. It's a tough gig. I just seperate the two things. I'm just a fan, it's not my problem. It's like okay they won't do a reunion, it's been 10 years, Axl's keeping the name and carrying on. I didn't let the old stuff stop me enjoying what Axl was doing. I get all the GNR guy's stuff, more of a fan of Izzy's solo than Slash. Enjoyed VR but think CD is better than Contraband. I like CD and thought Axl was a little hard done by media and fans when I looked at the evidence. Btw who changed my avatar to a Slash pic? Do you know who I am? I'll have you killed!

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