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AFD era Axl vs UYI Era Axl


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I've always wondered how different the Axl from 87-89 is compared to the Axl from 1990 onwards. He seems like a completely different person -- everything from his clothing to his personality seem drastically changed. It's like he (and consequently the band) became everything he was against initially.

AFD Axl comes off wild and rebellious, but LIKEABLE. He has a sort of humble charm to him in his interviews. The UYI Axl seems so moody and pretentious -- like he takes himself way too seriously. In some of the UYI interviews he even has a long cigarette holder (wtf??)  - can you even imagine appetite era Axl doing that?  Needless to say, AFD Axl actually looked cool (according to Alan Niven, Izzy set the style of the AFD era gnr). During UYI, the clothes he wears are ridiculously bizarre and OTT. Biker shorts and a fur coat ? :facepalm:  I've seen UYI concert pics where he's dressed like a boxer complete with robe? :lol:

There's an Alan Niven interview where he says the fame of the band just magnified everything 10x more in Axl's personality. AFD Axl seems like a fun guy to get a beer with, UYI Axl? Not so much. Even the performances are noticeably different -- compare the way he talks to the crowd during the appetite tour or his performances of that era (the one with Mick Jagger in particular) with the UYI era where every show has an angry rant -- he sounds like he's having so much more fun pre-1990. It's like the fun, cool Axl was replaced by a moody diva during UYI. I actually think had he remained as he was during AFD, there would have been much less friction with the grunge bands (despite GnR's decadence).

 To any original fans here from back in the day -- was the change in Axl shocking when the UYI tour started? Was the positive press for Axl turning negative at that point or had it already started during the AFD era?

Just compare these interviews:

AFD AXL:

Axl Rose 1988 Backstage Interview * RARE *

Axl Rose Interview - Donington 1988

UYI AXL:

Guns N' Roses - Axl Rose Interview Before The 1992 VMA Show (Pt. 1 & 2)

Edited by RONIN
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yeah i can def see young Axl thinking a cigarette holder was the gayest thing on earth lol

in the early days he was probably just glad to be making something of himself and by the 90's the fame had went to his head

Edited by -W.A.R-
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39 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I've always wondered how different the Axl from 87-89 is compared to the Axl from 1990 onwards. He seems like a completely different person -- everything from his clothing to his personality seem drastically changed. It's like he (and consequently the band) became everything he was against initially.

AFD Axl comes off wild and rebellious, but LIKEABLE. He has a sort of humble charm to him in his interviews. The UYI Axl seems so moody and pretentious -- like he takes himself way too seriously. In some of the UYI interviews he even has a long cigarette holder (wtf??)  - can you even imagine appetite era Axl doing that?  Needless to say, AFD Axl actually looked cool (according to Alan Niven, Izzy set the style of the AFD era gnr). During UYI, the clothes he wears are ridiculously bizarre and OTT. Biker shorts and a fur coat ? :facepalm:  I've seen UYI concert pics where he's dressed like a boxer complete with robe? :lol:

There's an Alan Niven interview where he says the fame of the band just magnified everything 10x more in Axl's personality. AFD Axl seems like a fun guy to get a beer with, UYI Axl? Not so much. Even the performances are noticeably different -- compare the way he talks to the crowd during the appetite tours or his performances of that era (the one with Mick Jagger in particular) with the UYI era -- he sounds like he's having so much more fun pre-1990. It's like the fun, cool Axl was replaced by a moody diva during UYI. I actually think had he remained as he was during AFD, there would have been much less friction with the grunge bands (despite GnR's decadence).

 To any original fans here from back in the day -- was the change in Axl shocking when the UYI tour started? Was the positive press for Axl turning negative at that point or had it already started during the AFD era?

Just compare these interviews:

AFD AXL:

Axl Rose 1988 Backstage Interview * RARE *

Axl Rose Interview - Donington 1988

UYI AXL:

Guns N' Roses - Axl Rose Interview Before The 1992 VMA Show (Pt. 1 & 2)

 

i came on this thread ready to write something like this

"how do you dare to compare Axl 1986-1990 with Axl 1992-1993. Please stop embarassing yourself"

Reading what you wrote, all I can say is that you pretty much nailed it.

I agree with basically everything you said (except the grunge thing).

Yeah, Axl seemed like somebody else on the UYI Tour

Now how does someone get that crazy?

===

In those years (basically 1988-1991) Guns  Roses was the biggest band in the world -- period.

No one could fucking touch them.

They had the best live show, they had the best songs -- and everything else.

(funny is that they were still not big enough in 1988, they didnt do shit in 1989-90 and basically imploded before 1991 ended) 

I cant measure how big GNR was then, but Id say it was almost as big as, say, Michael Jackson during Thriller era

Seriously. Everyone in the planet knew Sweet Child o Mine.

Think something like Adele today and multiply that for like, 18 times!

Now think what this did to the five guys -- specially to Axl who was the frontman and obviously the biggest focal point in the band.

Everyone saying how great he was all day long... a lot of yes men trying to take advantage of him...

So you can imagine how that must have affected him

===

The funny thing is that Axl still was Axl (at least onstage) during most of 1991

In Rio shows -- those were completely animalesque -- you can see he is clearly enjoying himself

On the early US and European tours a lot of nonsense was already creeping in but Axl was still loose onstage.

Everything changed afte izzy left

===

After izzy left, everything went REALLY downhill

Guns n Roses was never the same (not musically, not in any other sense) and Axl changed completely

The most painful things to watch is that he was no longer that animal out of the cage singing like a possessed man

no

Axl became a professional

He became controlled onstage

He also didnt seem to enjoy himself anymore on stage

That was really fucked up.

It took away the fun off listening and watching GNR

===

Now fast forward 25 years from 1991 

and...

Axl is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/215276-this-is-way-beyond-rasp-this-is-singing-like-he-means-it-how-do-you-describe-this-back-in-black/

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

yeah i can def see young Axl thinking a cigarette holder was the gayest thing on earth lol

in the early days he was probably just glad to be making something of himself and by the 90's the fame had went to his head

AFD Axl would probably mock the UYI Axl -- just like he was calling out Iron Maiden in that interview. Had he actually remained as he was during AFD, I doubt the grunge bands would have gone after him so much. AFD Axl was a humble street urchin. Yeah GnR's lyrics were misogynistic and they were decadent but they were still real and raw. I'm sure Nirvana would have still given them shit but it would have been way less than the tarring and feathering gnr got from the grunge bands back in the day. 

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i will say its well known Axl was always pretty moody though...a funny story Slash told about him picking up Axl one day and he started getting on him about something and Slash said Axl started rocking back and forth and eventually just jumped out of the moving car LOL

you add fame, pressure and personal demons and it probably explains him showing his moody side allot more

its been awhile since i read them but his Rolling Stone interviews when he was on the covers...the one in 89 was fairly mellow but the one in 92 was def much more negative and it seemed as he was fighting trying to defend himself with all the negativity surrounding him

Edited by -W.A.R-
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19 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

Good post, @nn18. I agree with you, AFD era Axl was still mostly a kid, excited and trying to make it. By the UYI came around, he seemed... disillusioned (sorry). According to everyone who knows him, Axl was always a complicated person, even before the fame, but back in the 80s he appeared to have a more positive attitude (or was at least trying to be positive) towards the band and also other areas in his life in general. I remember an interview with 80s Axl where he talked about his stepdad, saying how they got along great now, how his stepdad was his best firend now, etc. Obviously, he had a radically different opinion about his family by the ealry 90s (not that I blame him).

I think UYI Axl was just a product of growing up a little, combined with a lot of shitty things happening to him around that time (relationship break-ups, court cases, the media being assholes, family drama, Izzy leaving, the rest of the band being hard-core drug addicts and alcoholics, everyone picking on him and wanting a piece of him,...). Axl has said he's pretty sensitive and I'm sure all these things got to him and made it hard for him to function. That's why I believe him when he says he didn't like being on tour and he shouldn't have been doing that tour in the first place.

I also believe him when he says Slash and Duff didn't care about him. Or I believe that he felt that way at least. In the 80s, the band kept talking about how they were a gang, a family.  A few years later, and there was none of that left. Slash and Duff seemed to live in their own little booze and drugs world and liked to hang out with each other and some other guys from the crew and band, but barely even seemed to speak to Axl anymore. Instead of speaking to him, they spoke about him. I remember them talking pretty negatively about Axl in some interviews, which you just don't do about your own band mates imo, no matter how deserved it may be. As for Izzy, he seemed to have mentally left the band long before he actually quit. There's an interview where he just came across as sick and tired of dealing with all of them (Slash and Duff included, not just Axl). And when he really did leave then, well, we all know how hard that was for Axl.

Honestly, I think Axl probably felt pretty lonely and abandoned by the other guys. And because these people weren't there for him, he was looking for help and company in other (highly questionable) places. That's the part Slash and Duff (and Izzy?) are to blame for in this whole thing going to shit: If they ever actually were a 'family', they should have held onto Axl a little stronger, tried harder with him. They should have had his back and been there for him, not the Doug Goldsteins and magical crystal ladies of this world. I'm sure it wouldn't have been easy (everyone's heard enough stories about how crazy and nightmare-ish Axl was to deal with at times), but things might have turned out totally differently imo. Thankfully, Duff has expressed similar sentiments, so at least he seems to realize what could and should have been handled differently back then. Hopefully things are going to turn out better this time around.

This. This post is everything. The topic can be closed to further replies now, cause you nailed that one straight on the head.

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20 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

Good post, @nn18. I agree with you, AFD era Axl was still mostly a kid, excited and trying to make it. By the UYI came around, he seemed... disillusioned (sorry). According to everyone who knows him, Axl was always a complicated person, even before the fame, but back in the 80s he appeared to have a more positive attitude (or was at least trying to be positive) towards the band and also other areas in his life in general. I remember an interview with 80s Axl where he talked about his stepdad, saying how they got along great now, how his stepdad was his best firend now, etc. Obviously, he had a radically different opinion about his family by the ealry 90s (not that I blame him).

I think UYI Axl was just a product of growing up a little, combined with a lot of shitty things happening to him around that time (relationship break-ups, court cases, the media being assholes, family drama, Izzy leaving, the rest of the band being hard-core drug addicts and alcoholics, everyone picking on him and wanting a piece of him,...). Axl has said he's pretty sensitive and I'm sure all these things got to him and made it hard for him to function. That's why I believe him when he says he didn't like being on tour and he shouldn't have been doing that tour in the first place.

I also believe him when he says Slash and Duff didn't care about him. Or I believe that he felt that way at least. In the 80s, the band kept talking about how they were a gang, a family.  A few years later, and there was none of that left. Slash and Duff seemed to live in their own little booze and drugs world and liked to hang out with each other and some other guys from the crew and band, but barely even seemed to speak to Axl anymore. Instead of speaking to him, they spoke about him. I remember them talking pretty negatively about Axl in some interviews, which you just don't do about your own band mates imo, no matter how deserved it may be. As for Izzy, he seemed to have mentally left the band long before he actually quit. There's an interview where he just came across as sick and tired of dealing with all of them (Slash and Duff included, not just Axl). And when he really did leave then, well, we all know how hard that was for Axl.

Honestly, I think Axl probably felt pretty lonely and abandoned by the other guys. And because these people weren't there for him, he was looking for help and company in other (highly questionable) places. That's the part Slash and Duff (and Izzy?) are to blame for in this whole thing going to shit: If they ever actually were a 'family', they should have held onto Axl a little stronger, tried harder with him. They should have had his back and been there for him, not the Doug Goldsteins and magical crystal ladies of this world. I'm sure it wouldn't have been easy (everyone's heard enough stories about how crazy and nightmare-ish Axl was to deal with at times), but things might have turned out totally differently imo. Thankfully, Duff has expressed similar sentiments, so at least he seems to realize what could and should have been handled differently back then. Hopefully things are going to turn out better this time around.

Holy shit. You almost made me cry, girl. Great post!! 

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17 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

I also believe him when he says Slash and Duff didn't care about him. Or I believe that he felt that way at least. In the 80s, the band kept talking about how they were a gang, a family.  A few years later, and there was none of that left. Slash and Duff seemed to live in their own little booze and drugs world and liked to hang out with each other and some other guys from the crew and band, but barely even seemed to speak to Axl anymore. Instead of speaking to him, they spoke about him. I remember them talking pretty negatively about Axl in some interviews, which you just don't do about your own band mates imo, no matter how deserved it may be. As for Izzy, he seemed to have mentally left the band long before he actually quit. There's an interview where he just came across as sick and tired of dealing with all of them (Slash and Duff included, not just Axl). And when he really did leave then, well, we all know how hard that was for Axl.

Honestly, I think Axl probably felt pretty lonely and abandoned by the other guys. And because these people weren't there for him, he was looking for help and company in other (highly questionable) places. That's the part Slash and Duff (and Izzy?) are to blame for in this whole thing going to shit: If they ever actually were a 'family', they should have held onto Axl a little stronger, tried harder with him. They should have had his back and been there for him, not the Doug Goldsteins and magical crystal ladies of this world. I'm sure it wouldn't have been easy (everyone's heard enough stories about how crazy and nightmare-ish Axl was to deal with at times), but things might have turned out totally differently imo. Thankfully, Duff has expressed similar sentiments, so at least he seems to realize what could and should have been handled differently back then. Hopefully things are going to turn out better this time around.

I agree but the mental state of both Slash and Duff at the time wouldn't allow them to consider Axl's feelings.

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The music industry vultures circled around Axl, too many yes men around him feeding into his ego. Keeping him separate from the rest of the band and any sense of normality. Axl was stupid enought to believe his own hype. 

In the 80s you would see pictures of him hanging around with the other members of GNR or people who were his actual friends. Not so much in the 90s and certainly not now. 

The worst thing they ever did was get rid of Alan Niven or anyone who dared to stand up to Axl. 

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1 hour ago, Lumikki said:

Good post, @nn18. I agree with you, AFD era Axl was still mostly a kid, excited and trying to make it. By the time UYI came around, he seemed... disillusioned (sorry). According to everyone who knows him, Axl was always a complicated person, even before the fame, but back in the 80s he appeared to have a more positive attitude (or was at least trying to be positive) towards the band and also other areas in his life in general. I remember an interview with 80s Axl where he talked about his stepdad, saying how they got along great now, how his stepdad was his best firend now, etc. Obviously, he had a radically different opinion about his family by the ealry 90s (not that I blame him).

I think UYI Axl was just a product of growing up a little, combined with a lot of shitty things happening to him around that time (relationship break-ups, court cases, the media being assholes, family drama, Izzy leaving, the rest of the band being hard-core drug addicts and alcoholics, everyone picking on him and wanting a piece of him,...). Axl has said he's pretty sensitive and I'm sure all these things got to him and made it hard for him to function. That's why I believe him when he says he didn't like being on tour and he shouldn't have been doing that tour in the first place.

I also believe him when he says Slash and Duff didn't care about him. Or I believe that he felt that way at least. In the 80s, the band kept talking about how they were a gang, a family.  A few years later, and there was none of that left. Slash and Duff seemed to live in their own little booze and drugs world and liked to hang out with each other and some other guys from the crew and band, but barely even seemed to speak to Axl anymore. Instead of speaking to him, they spoke about him. I remember them talking pretty negatively about Axl in some interviews, which you just don't do about your own band mates imo, no matter how deserved it may be. As for Izzy, he seemed to have mentally left the band long before he actually quit. There's an interview where he just came across as sick and tired of dealing with all of them (Slash and Duff included, not just Axl). And when he really did leave then, well, we all know how hard that was for Axl.

Honestly, I think Axl probably felt pretty lonely and abandoned by the other guys. And because these people weren't there for him, he was looking for help and company in other (highly questionable) places. That's the part Slash and Duff (and Izzy?) are to blame for in this whole thing going to shit: If they ever actually were a 'family', they should have held onto Axl a little stronger, tried harder with him. They should have had his back and been there for him, not the Doug Goldsteins and magical crystal ladies of this world. I'm sure it wouldn't have been easy (everyone's heard enough stories about how crazy and nightmare-ish Axl was to deal with at times), but things might have turned out totally differently imo. Thankfully, Duff has expressed similar sentiments, so at least he seems to realize what could and should have been handled differently back then. Hopefully things are going to turn out better this time around.

Yes, that's pretty much what I was trying to say. You just expressed it much better! :D

And Izzy leaving just made the situation much worse. Axl once said something like, Izzy was the one who was always getting him back on the right road when he was massively wrong, or something along those lines. Not having someone who can get you to your sences is a major problem with someone like Axl. Plus Izzy was probably his closest friend among the guys in the band. They were born in the same town, they formed a first band together, Axl went to LA because of Izzy, and now he left him....Losing Izzy was probably the worst thing that could happen to Axl at that point, but the rest of the guys just didn't care 

Edited by nn18
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2 hours ago, nonok said:

This. This post is everything. The topic can be closed to further replies now, cause you nailed that one straight on the head.

2 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Holy shit. You almost made me cry, girl. Great post!! 

Aww, thanks girls. I guess I just have a lot of feelings on that subject :P I can be quite critical of Axl at times, but I don't think he's the monster he's often portrayed as and I actually have a lot of empathy for him.

 

2 hours ago, WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself said:

I agree but the mental state of both Slash and Duff at the time wouldn't allow them to consider Axl's feelings.

I agree for the most part, and that's the tragedy of it. Slash and Duff aren't bad guys (Duff actually seems to be a really, really great guy even and a genuinely good person), they were just so wrapped up in their own addictions and problems that they completely failed Axl as friends/band mates/family/whatever.

 

1 hour ago, nn18 said:

And Izzy leaving just made the situation much worse. Axl once said something like, Izzy was the one who was always getting him back on the right road when he was massively wrong, or something along those lines. Not having someone who can get you to your sences is a major problem with someone like Axl. Plus Izzy was probably his closest friend among the guys in the band. They were born in the same town, they formed a first band together, Axl went to LA because of Izzy, and now he left him....Losing Izzy was probably the worst thing that could happen to Axl at that point, but the rest of the guys just didn't care 

Very true. Izzy has known Axl since they were kids and probably knew best how to handle him and deal with him. I love Izzy, but I always thought him just turning his back on his childhood friend and the band he himself created was pretty disappointing. I don't want to judge though, no one here knows what really happened and what it was like to be in his shoes. And I'll admit my feelings on this subject are a bit colored by Axl talking about how he was crying on the phone for hours, begging Izzy to stay. That was one of the first things I ever read about GnR and it broke my heart a little.

Edited by Lumikki
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The 80's Axl was a rock n' roller

The 90's Axl (92-93) became a pop artist who sang rock songs.

The 90-91 Axl still had some of that 80's badass in him.

 

He became a diva who desperately wanted to become the male version of Madonna.

Edited by SWINGTRADER
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6 hours ago, Lumikki said:

As for Izzy, he seemed to have mentally left the band long before he actually quit. There's an interview where he just came across as sick and tired of dealing with all of them (Slash and Duff included, not just Axl). And when he really did leave then, well, we all know how hard that was for Axl.

As for that... they - 'family' shouldn't have fired Steven in the first place..that means mean Izzy would stay and Axl would have been adherent of AFD mindset-wise...

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4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

For reasons only known to himself, he started appearing in his underpants on stage which was worrying.

You have gotta be the most eccentric person here...nothing negative bro but they way you express yourself and the way you think..I often think of you as some utterly profound and classy Sir willing to shed some of your highly unique and unconventional wisdom, befitting of gentleman in your avatar... are you like that in real life?

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4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

For reasons only known to himself, he started appearing in his underpants on stage which was worrying.

He went from only showing his ass to only covering his ass.

I suppose there is something profound in that. I don't know what, but surely someone can come up with something.

Edited by sanity_lost
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9 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

The worst thing they ever did was get rid of Alan Niven or anyone who dared to stand up to Axl. 

I'm not exactly a big fan of Axl, but Alan Niven comes across like a pretty big douchebag himself. Going by some of the things I've heard I can't really blame Axl for disliking him.

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