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AFD era Axl vs UYI Era Axl


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Meh. I'm starting to sound like an Axlite (or whatever the term is), but trying to look at things from Axl's perspective, I would probably have felt the same way as he did and it has nothing to do with ego.

The man straight-up admitted that he and Axl disliked each other right from the start. And it still shows. Even today, Alan Niven will go on an on about what a great guy Slash is and how much he loves him, etc. and yet he can't say a single nice thing about Axl. If the manager of my own band hated me, I would be hella uncomfortable with that as well.

And Alan Niven went and discussed kicking Axl out of the band with the other guys. Obviously, Axl's behaviour was the reason for them considering this in the first place, but from Axl's perspective? It's his manager and his band mates/friends going behind his back and scheming to get rid of him. I would have been really upset, hurt and pissed off about that in his place. Not to mention that getting rid of Axl (in 1988 or whenever that was) would have been a phenomenally stupid idea anyway.

And on a side note, Alan Niven also came across like a real asshole when he complained about Axl "constantly whining" about his childhood or whatever. Axl talked about it in a handful of interviews and that was it. Hardly whining. And anyway, why shouldn't he talk about it? It was quite a brave thing to do and I'm sure it helped a lot of people. There are a million legitimate reasons to criticize Axl, but him talking about child abuse and his experiences with it is not one of them.

 

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On May 26, 2016 at 11:44 PM, -W.A.R- said:

yeah i can def see young Axl thinking a cigarette holder was the gayest thing on earth lol

in the early days he was probably just glad to be making something of himself and by the 90's the fame had went to his head

The holder wasn't for looks. It was something called an aqua filter. It was filled with cotton, which could then be soaked with water. The idea was sort of like how a bong removes some or most of the carcinogens from the smoke. It would also remove a lot of the tar and nicotine as well.

I think at the time, Axl was trying to get more healthy for various reasons and this was his way of cutting back. It certainly wasn't a prima donna thing.

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24 minutes ago, Nintari said:

The holder wasn't for looks. It was something called an aqua filter. It was filled with cotton, which could then be soaked with water. The idea was sort of like how a bong removes some or most of the carcinogens from the smoke. It would also remove a lot of the tar and nicotine as well.

I think at the time, Axl was trying to get more healthy for various reasons and this was his way of cutting back. It certainly wasn't a prima donna thing.

thanks i'll add that too my GNR historian bank :lol:

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50 minutes ago, Nintari said:

The holder wasn't for looks. It was something called an aqua filter. It was filled with cotton, which could then be soaked with water. The idea was sort of like how a bong removes some or most of the carcinogens from the smoke. It would also remove a lot of the tar and nicotine as well.

I think at the time, Axl was trying to get more healthy for various reasons and this was his way of cutting back. It certainly wasn't a prima donna thing.

Oh I never knew this. Like I said before we learn something new every day.

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Just now, cheesecake said:

Oh I never knew this. Like I said before we learn something new every day.

lol... I only know what they are because I was like 13/14 at the time and like any young kid looking up to his idol/s I used them too because I wanted to be just like Axl. I use to walk around, not even inhaling the smoke, acting like I was some bad ass rock star. After a few weird looks from my peers and some negative feedback from some people I knew, I quickly dropped the idea of protecting my lungs and accepted the much cooler "let's get lung cancer more quickly" approach and stopped using them at all. 

Edited by Nintari
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I think you have to agree with Axl to get what you want. I think UYI was really taken away from Niven, it was much more expansive than Izzy seemed to want to go. And Slash and Duff were hesitant. And that is actually understandable coming off AFD. Then suddenly Axl is at the piano, doing huge videos. But really all that stuff worked. But yeah Niven is still being a bitch about it after all the worldwide success that UYI had. Laugh at the videos or whinge about 10 minute ballads now, but it worked and put GNR so far beyond other rock bands at the time. So much so there was a huge backlash. Having said that maybe Niven is right in that it destroyed the band as it tore them apart at the time. They could have been a lot more commercially wise. But that's not what GNR was I guess. It always has this "this is ridiculous...but so awesome" feel for me. For me Patience was like a wtf. Then Nov Rain was too. Then 90s influences on CD too is ill advised. But it always works that's how the greats do it, you never know. They dance to their own drum. Not what others think they should do to be successful. 

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1 hour ago, Nintari said:

lol... I only know what they are because I was like 13/14 at the time and like any young kid looking up to his idol/s I used them too because I wanted to be just like Axl. I use to walk around, not even inhaling the smoke, acting like I was some bad ass rock star. After a few weird looks from my peers and some negative feedback from some people I knew, I quickly dropped the idea of protecting my lungs and accepted the much cooler "let's get lung cancer more quickly" approach and stopped using them at all. 

Was expecting a facepalming response here LOL. Few days ago I admitted not knowing a certain fact that apparently known to EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS GRADUATED from high school, and I was facepalmed ha ha ha...

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Some of the replies are just silly. "Axl lost the love of Slash and felt like an abandoned puppy." There's a big difference between a broke 24 year old and a rich 31 year old. Watch old videos of any band from when they were doing club shows and compare to when they got big. Things change. Axl is no different, in this case, than anyone else.

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22 minutes ago, JimMorrison4 said:

Some of the replies are just silly. "Axl lost the love of Slash and felt like an abandoned puppy." There's a big difference between a broke 24 year old and a rich 31 year old. Watch old videos of any band from when they were doing club shows and compare to when they got big. Things change. Axl is no different, in this case, than anyone else.

Not so silly considering even Marc Canter has said that Axl felt abandoned by Slash. Some CD lyrics scream of that as well. Axl's a dude who's got some issues.

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14 hours ago, Lumikki said:

Meh. I'm starting to sound like an Axlite (or whatever the term is), but trying to look at things from Axl's perspective, I would probably have felt the same way as he did and it has nothing to do with ego.

The man straight-up admitted that he and Axl disliked each other right from the start. And it still shows. Even today, Alan Niven will go on an on about what a great guy Slash is and how much he loves him, etc. and yet he can't say a single nice thing about Axl. If the manager of my own band hated me, I would be hella uncomfortable with that as well.

And Alan Niven went and discussed kicking Axl out of the band with the other guys. Obviously, Axl's behaviour was the reason for them considering this in the first place, but from Axl's perspective? It's his manager and his band mates/friends going behind his back and scheming to get rid of him. I would have been really upset, hurt and pissed off about that in his place. Not to mention that getting rid of Axl (in 1988 or whenever that was) would have been a phenomenally stupid idea anyway.

And on a side note, Alan Niven also came across like a real asshole when he complained about Axl "constantly whining" about his childhood or whatever. Axl talked about it in a handful of interviews and that was it. Hardly whining. And anyway, why shouldn't he talk about it? It was quite a brave thing to do and I'm sure it helped a lot of people. There are a million legitimate reasons to criticize Axl, but him talking about child abuse and his experiences with it is not one of them.

 

I get that Axl has his issue, but that doesn't mean his ego didn't get out of control. When you start fucking your bandmates over on writing credits, what do you call that? When you write a condescending thank you note instead giving proper credits, what do you call that?

 

Alan has said a lot of nice things about Axl actually. Especially in his most recent interview. He just doesn't gloss over the fact that Axl was a difficult person to be around. I mean, when you're an up and coming band and your singer refuses to tour with Aerosmith (?), people are going to think about replacing you. I don't think Alan was being unreasonable. He was being a manager. He tried to look out for the band, not just Axl.

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Maybe I'm an awful person for this as well, but I feel Steven getting less than the rest of the band was justified. He contributed a lot less than the others, so why should he get an equal share? Besides, wasn't it Slash that came up with the percentage splits deciding who got how much? I never heard of Slash (or any of the others) sticking up for his buddy Steven and demanding Steven should be treated equally, so I assume Slash agreed with the way Steven was treated in this regard.

I'm not sure if I've seen his most recent interview, but I don't think anyone but Axl's most hard core ass-kissers are glossing over Axl being difficult. It's a fact that's well-known enough. I just love Axl, Slash, Duff and Izzy pretty much equally and I think each one's thoughts and feelings on the subject are valid, even Axl's. We just haven't really heard Axl's side of the story, and until we do, I try to keep an at least somewhat balanced and open-minded view on the whole GnR thing.

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48 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

Maybe I'm an awful person for this as well, but I feel Steven getting less than the rest of the band was justified. He contributed a lot less than the others, so why should he get an equal share? Besides, wasn't it Slash that came up with the percentage splits deciding who got how much? I never heard of Slash (or any of the others) sticking up for his buddy Steven and demanding Steven should be treated equally, so I assume Slash agreed with the way Steven was treated in this regard.

There apparently was some fuss about Izzy, Duff and Slash wanting an equal spilt on AfD. Either way, Steven got a real nice deal for not writing anything. It would have been cold to leave him totally out imo. The formula came in on UYI. Not sure why Axl wanted things to change, maybe one day he'll explain.

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7 hours ago, wasted said:

I think you have to agree with Axl to get what you want. I think UYI was really taken away from Niven, it was much more expansive than Izzy seemed to want to go. And Slash and Duff were hesitant. And that is actually understandable coming off AFD. Then suddenly Axl is at the piano, doing huge videos. But really all that stuff worked. But yeah Niven is still being a bitch about it after all the worldwide success that UYI had. Laugh at the videos or whinge about 10 minute ballads now, but it worked and put GNR so far beyond other rock bands at the time. So much so there was a huge backlash. Having said that maybe Niven is right in that it destroyed the band as it tore them apart at the time. They could have been a lot more commercially wise. But that's not what GNR was I guess. It always has this "this is ridiculous...but so awesome" feel for me. For me Patience was like a wtf. Then Nov Rain was too. Then 90s influences on CD too is ill advised. But it always works that's how the greats do it, you never know. They dance to their own drum. Not what others think they should do to be successful. 

Like you said, it worked though. All the decadence, all the "what the fucks", it's all part of the machine that has kept the name relevant all these years. Guns N Roses were their own band. Trailblazers of sorts. I try and think of similar bands and I arrive at Lynard Skynard. They kind of did their own ugly thing but god damn it worked. I think those expansive music videos and the piano route really helped cement themselves over time and it's aged the band well because it kept the catalog expansive. But the quality was still there completely. So many try to expand and it just doesn't work.

Every Guns album has that "I don't give a fuck" attitude, even CD. Very authentic. And I don't mean that in an immature way of being "without a fuck to give". More like this is the music we want to make. That is Guns N Roses legacy to me. The band that did their own thing despite labels of bloated, retro, egotistical, you name it. I wouldn't have it any other way. It's why the next album has such a high standard. 

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4 hours ago, Frey said:

Not so silly considering even Marc Canter has said that Axl felt abandoned by Slash. Some CD lyrics scream of that as well. Axl's a dude who's got some issues.

I've felt abandoned by certain people. Doesn't change my every day life or the way I behave at work. I don't think Axl is an emo teenager who was affected that way either. I promise you he didn't buy a Charles Manson shirt and biker shorts thinking, "Slash isn't my friend as much as he was 5 years ago. I have to change things. I must."

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AFD Axl was a hungry, mean, s.o.b straight off the street. UYI Axl was a guy that went from having nothing to having anything he wanted. I love him but that's just how it goes sometimes.

Money and fame can be a motherfucker. Many people don't make it out. Overdose, suicide, losing everything. At least Axl just went through an ego-trippin kind of weird phase and he did make it out.

On a better note, I'm all about some Axl Converse and kilts from UYI Axl.

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8 hours ago, Sprite said:

Like you said, it worked though. All the decadence, all the "what the fucks", it's all part of the machine that has kept the name relevant all these years. Guns N Roses were their own band. Trailblazers of sorts. I try and think of similar bands and I arrive at Lynard Skynard. They kind of did their own ugly thing but god damn it worked. I think those expansive music videos and the piano route really helped cement themselves over time and it's aged the band well because it kept the catalog expansive. But the quality was still there completely. So many try to expand and it just doesn't work.

Every Guns album has that "I don't give a fuck" attitude, even CD. Very authentic. And I don't mean that in an immature way of being "without a fuck to give". More like this is the music we want to make. That is Guns N Roses legacy to me. The band that did their own thing despite labels of bloated, retro, egotistical, you name it. I wouldn't have it any other way. It's why the next album has such a high standard. 

And that's why it takes so long. Not to do just long songs but to find something new to say. Other bands spin out a couple of quick cds after the flagship statement. It seems like Axl had CD II and remix which were like that. But it didn't happen. They have the Zeppelin role. But maybe even more event album, high concept and artistic than Zepp. 

I'm not sure what they would write about for a new record. At least Duff and Izzy could help with lyrics. 

Axl told everyone to fuck off on CD and a lot relationship songs seem like the final word. 

Other than "hey I love everyone and nostalgia, let's buy t shirts" I'm nit sure what's to say. 

GNR write from the heart so I can't see them writing a fake sleaze anthem. If anything Slash and Duff have joined Axl in boring old guy club. None of them are Keith Richards. 

It's so difficult when fans are reliving the past and they maybe aren't. 

But if you start adding tge Slash and Duff dimension to CD era material it's going to get epic, like The Fragile meets Contraband. 

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15 hours ago, Babooshka said:

There apparently was some fuss about Izzy, Duff and Slash wanting an equal spilt on AfD. Either way, Steven got a real nice deal for not writing anything. It would have been cold to leave him totally out imo. The formula came in on UYI. Not sure why Axl wanted things to change, maybe one day he'll explain.

well it didn't help that Howard Stern suggested Axl was above the band....@4:35

 

 

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On 5/26/2016 at 9:08 PM, Kosonen said:

wtf? 90's Axl was the best. Thats when axl rose character was born. Hate it or love it. 

True -- I guess it was entertaining but he lost a tremendous amount of credibility and integrity because of the antics. 

 

On 5/26/2016 at 9:54 AM, SWINGTRADER said:

The 80's Axl was a rock n' roller

The 90's Axl (92-93) became a pop artist who sang rock songs.

The 90-91 Axl still had some of that 80's badass in him.

 

He became a diva who desperately wanted to become the male version of Madonna.

I think you nailed it man. 80's Axl was a badass rock n' roller with authenticity. The guy in '92 was sipping dom perignon and throwing stupid toga parties for his entourage.

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I always felt pre 90s axl tried too hard to be cool and be liked. 91' onwards he seemed like he couldn't care less and seemed to embrace being crazy... By 2002 he definately embraced it.

I've always felt like Axl tries too hard to have a unique look that's easily recognized, like Slash does, or elvis, etc. 91 he had the bandannas, kilts, and shorts, 93 he had the Manson shirts and hats, 2002 he had the cornrows and jerseys, 06 he had the cornrows, now he has the hats and jackets. He tries too hard to create a look.

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