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If you ever wondered what made Axl flip in the 1998 airport incident


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35 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

Yep. Like I mentioned in another thread, in the 1980s Axl was even still trying to tell himself that things in his family were completely a-okay. He was talking about how his stepfather was his best friend and how they got along great with now. And that he understood why his stepfather was "being so hard on him". A few years later, he was sick of trying to keep up the act and pretening everything was fine.

It's a growing process and it's complex. Most children, even very mistreated ones, have an innate attachment to their parents and this leads to a lot of confusion and mixed emotions.

 

Yes, again it's all very complex unfortunately. I read an article once that talked about how child abuse actually affects the way the brain works and how the various neurological pathways and regions in the brain function. The brains of abused children are actually wired differently than normal in many cases. So this might come into play as well in Axl's case.

 

Yes, according to Izzy, his teachers and some other people, Axl was a tiny, weird looking kid (these bowl cuts sure didn't help) and he got bullied a lot in school. Which is awful, considering his home life was already so messed up. And then he had a tough time in school as well. Poor kid.

ITA, It's incredibly hard for many kids to finally get to the point where they cut ties completely with their parents. They very often love them and maintain attachments even when their parents are hurting them. Even as adults, many people maintain relationships with completely abusive and dysfunctional relatives because "it's family." If you end up cutting ties with an abusive family member you're often seen as the bad guy. And Axl was from a religious tradition that stressed forgiveness and family - even if he'd walked away from that religion, the cultural values with which one is raised often take longer to shake.

 

I've read similar articles about how brain scans of children and adults who have been abused are actually different from their peers who have not suffered trauma. I'd actually believe it. There's also a school of thought that when one is genetically predisposed to mental illness, there's some sort of catalyst for the gene to activate. That could be trauma, or drug use (there are some mental illnesses that show up in drug users more often), or something else. I do think that some mental illnesses are physiological in nature and aren't caused by trauma, but IMHO there are probably all sorts of mitigating factors for everything. Like someone who has a family history of mental illness might still have some issues, but if they go into the army and end up in an active combat zone for two years their mental illness is probably going to be a hell of a lot worse.

 

By all accounts Axl had a pretty miserable time as a child -- abused at home, raised in a really strict church, and bullied at school. One can understand why he would have had a lot of emotional issues as a result.

Edited by stella
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4 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

Yes, very true and good point. I didn't mean to suggest there is noch such thing as actual repressed memories. Those are a real thing. And this is also the reason why I don't want to completely dismiss the horrible "raped as a baby" story. But considering who Axl's so-called therapists were and the "credentials" they have, I'm leaning more towards something shady going on.

 

Exactly. While reading Slash's book and the famous story about Axl in the car, I did wonder if there was something specific about being made to apologize that triggered that kind of panic attack/trauma reaction in Axl. Slash even claims he suggested very gently to Axl that he should apologize to his grandmother, but it still was enough to give him some kind of meltdown.

ITA with this. When someone says they were raped as a child, whatever my misgivings about their therapy might be, I'm going to believe them by default. And given what Axl's said about other situations and his responses to things and anger, it's clear some terrible shit went down in any case.

 

I do think that the confusion between the legit and the bogus recovery of memories makes it harder for victims. There are those who will always disbelieve those recollections and ask why the person didn't say something sooner, etc. They don't get that many abuse survivors don't want to think about it themselves much less talk to anyone else.

 

And that scene in Slash's book really stayed with me, too. Something about it really upset Axl very badly.

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2 hours ago, stella said:

ITA, It's incredibly hard for many kids to finally get to the point where they cut ties completely with their parents. They very often love them and maintain attachments even when their parents are hurting them. Even as adults, many people maintain relationships with completely abusive and dysfunctional relatives because "it's family." If you end up cutting ties with an abusive family member you're often seen as the bad guy. And Axl was from a religious tradition that stressed forgiveness and family - even if he'd walked away from that religion, the cultural values with which one is raised often take longer to shake.

Yeah. And good point about his religious background, that aspect often seems ignored.

2 hours ago, stella said:

I've read similar articles about how brain scans of children and adults who have been abused are actually different from their peers who have not suffered trauma. I'd actually believe it. There's also a school of thought that when one is genetically predisposed to mental illness, there's some sort of catalyst for the gene to activate. That could be trauma, or drug use (there are some mental illnesses that show up in drug users more often), or something else. I do think that some mental illnesses are physiological in nature and aren't caused by trauma, but IMHO there are probably all sorts of mitigating factors for everything. Like someone who has a family history of mental illness might still have some issues, but if they go into the army and end up in an active combat zone for two years their mental illness is probably going to be a hell of a lot worse.

Yes, I've read about all of that as well. I remember reading about the brain scans especially. And honestly, it all seems pretty plausible to me.

Medical issues (and especially mental health issues) are rarely straight-forward unfortunately, and a lot of factors can come into play, especially if you've had a life like Axl.

2 hours ago, stella said:

ITA with this. When someone says they were raped as a child, whatever my misgivings about their therapy might be, I'm going to believe them by default. And given what Axl's said about other situations and his responses to things and anger, it's clear some terrible shit went down in any case.

Yep. I'd rather not tell abuse survivors what did or didn't happen them, even if the circumstances are questionable. I'd rather believe someone and be wrong than hurt someone by not believing them.

2 hours ago, stella said:

And that scene in Slash's book really stayed with me, too. Something about it really upset Axl very badly.

Yes, maybe the situation triggered some kind of flashback of something that happened when he was younger and he reacted on instinct or something.

 

By the way, I'd like every one of your posts, stella, but I'm already out of likes today and it's only noon here :lol:

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13 hours ago, Lumikki said:

 

"Crazy Axl stories". A lot of these stories are told for cheap laughs, but when you think about it, these stories are actually not funny at all. Like the one about Axl jumping out of a moving car that Slash told on a late night talk show and in his book.

Think about it- Axl was literally a kid who started rocking back and forth in his seat and then jumped out of a speeding car when Slash made a gentle suggestion to him. That's pretty extreme behaviour and far removed from normal. And quite concerning. I'm not a psychologist, but I can only guess that actually was some kind of trauma reaction or something. Not very funny at all when you look at it like that.

We also know he was a kid who used to cut himself with razor blades, before he started destroying furniture and stuff instead of destroying his body. He also tried to commit suicide at least once or twice.

And all of this happened before 1990. Axl wasn't "batshit insane". He was a very troubled and obviously hurting kid/young man. One possibly suffering from untreated PTSD or something similar due to his horrific childhood and the other traumatic things that happened to him after he left home (like the air conditioning repair man incident).

In the 90s, he tried to find help to deal with his problems. Unfortunately he seems to have looked in all the wrong places though.

He did talk about having a habit of sitting on his ass and eating too much once (in a way that compared it to the drug use of the other guys in the band iirc), but that doesn't really have to mean anything.

Yes. He once said he was so depressed that he felt like he coudln't leave his house or something. Very sad.

I hadn't heard any of that before. Interesting and quite sad. He should have received help long before the 90s.

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On May 27, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Sprite said:

The real question is why does this bother you? People arrive at their understanding of consciousness in a multitude of ways because no one understands what it is. In your case it sounds like the ego has convinced you of whats real or not but that's nothing psilocybin couldn't help. I've learned not to judge people for their beliefs. I mean is this really any more out there than a catholic mass on Saturday night were you eat crackers and wine pretending it's someone's body and blood? That's just more mainstream. Who knows what it means to Axl specifically. It really is none of anyone's business but his own. Some people can hear this, some can't. For the ones that can't it's like trying to explain TV to a cat. Nothing is getting through. Carry on, back to the music.

Do you believe that Axl and Stephanie have lived several lives together over the past 1,000 years?

This is something he believes. Just curious if you think that really happened. And if not, what would you say to people who believe it to be true?

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@Lumikki (great we can do this instead of quoting long pages).

The "shed" incident I read online when Axl did an interview with Del James. It's very long but if I can find it I'll try to cut and paste it so we can see what the situation actually was. Might have been a recording studio, I'll find it and get back to you. Cheers :axl92:

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7 minutes ago, rock4eva said:

@Lumikki (great we can do this instead of quoting long pages).

The "shed" incident I read online when Axl did an interview with Del James. It's very long but if I can find it I'll try to cut and paste it so we can see what the situation actually was. Might have been a recording studio, I'll find it and get back to you. Cheers :axl92:

Cool, thanks! :heart:

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3 hours ago, rock4eva said:

Whew @Lumikki I found it finally. I've just cut & pasted (it better work lol). 1992 interview with Del James.

http://www.w-axl-rose.com/Articles/Art_RIP_1992.html

Thank you! I've read that one before, but somehow I had completely forgotten about that part of it. It makes me really sad to think that he was holed up somewhere all alone on Christmas and would have remained that way if that concerned friend hadn't come by to check on him. And he mentions yet another suicide attempt (or considering it at least). Sad.

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5 hours ago, rock4eva said:

Whew @Lumikki I found it finally. I've just cut & pasted (it better work lol). 1992 interview with Del James.

http://www.w-axl-rose.com/Articles/Art_RIP_1992.html

Interesting interview. Lots of pretty out there alternative medicine stuff in there as well. Healing AIDS with vitamins and magic vibes? Christ.

Also the thing about toxins from traumatic events being trapped in your body. I can't even tell anymore if there is at least a little truth to that (it seems like I read something similar once somewhere) or if Axl's crazy has just infected my brain now.

 

Edited by Frey
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7 hours ago, paranoyd androyd said:

He's also suffered from PTSD since he was an early teen and has been on all sorts of different medications and therapies for it.

Source? Some posters here have speculated about him having PTSD, and it wouldn't surprise me if that were true, but I don't recall Axl himself or anyone close to him ever saying he suffered from PTSD and was getting treated for it.

Axl himself also denied being bipolar.

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On 5/29/2016 at 5:06 AM, Lumikki said:

Yeah. And good point about his religious background, that aspect often seems ignored.

By the way, I'd like every one of your posts, stella, but I'm already out of likes today and it's only noon here :lol:

Aw, thank you! :) This is a really interesting discussion!

IMHO people's religious backgrounds get overlooked a lot in therapy/psychiatry, and that shouldn't be the case. If someone's been raised to be really observant in a religion, that's their framework, and unraveling their issues often requires taking that into account. Even if they've left the religion there's still that context and their religious upbringing might be strongly coloring the way they analyze, approach and see things in their world. It probably helps a lot of these people to have a therapist or psychiatrist that is either also an ex-member of that religion or knows it backward and forward so they can explore how it's influencing things.

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On 27/05/2016 at 3:36 PM, Sprite said:

The real question is why does this bother you? People arrive at their understanding of consciousness in a multitude of ways because no one understands what it is. In your case it sounds like the ego has convinced you of whats real or not but that's nothing psilocybin couldn't help. I've learned not to judge people for their beliefs. I mean is this really any more out there than a catholic mass on Saturday night were you eat crackers and wine pretending it's someone's body and blood? That's just more mainstream. Who knows what it means to Axl specifically. It really is none of anyone's business but his own. Some people can hear this, some can't. For the ones that can't it's like trying to explain TV to a cat. Nothing is getting through. Carry on, back to the music.

Wow. 

 

Awesome post. Truth bomb. 

Do you know Graham Hancock or Nassim Harramein? 

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On 5/27/2016 at 10:21 AM, Lumikki said:

This is what I don't get about Axl. So many people (including Slash, Duff, etc) keep talking about how Axl is so intelligent, so smart, yadda yadda...

And yet he's apparently dumb enough to fall for these kinds of ridiculous frauds? What the hell  :facepalm:

 

It's less about being dumb and more about being emotionally vulnerable enough to hope that shit like this is a solution to whatever might be wrong in your life. 

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This is what happens when you lose all your critical eye. Axl got caught up in his own fame and when that happens hangers on and all sorts flock to you like a fly to light.

The bullshit this guy is preaching! my god! 

If it helped him great! but my thoughts would be this is some sort of placebo affect, and they were just sucking as much money out of him as possible. There's lots of "faith healers" around around the world (realise this is something different) and the majority are scam artists just taking advantage of people's illness or lack of education. 

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17 hours ago, rock4eva said:

Whew @Lumikki I found it finally. I've just cut & pasted (it better work lol). 1992 interview with Del James.

 

http://www.w-axl-rose.com/Articles/Art_RIP_1992.html



 


 

Strange that he kinda shits on Izzy, who, by most accounts, backed off of GNR because he was trying to stay sober, while he also seemed annoyed by the same drug habits that drove Izzy away.

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1 hour ago, Modano09 said:

Strange that he kinda shits on Izzy, who, by most accounts, backed off of GNR because he was trying to stay sober, while he also seemed annoyed by the same drug habits that drove Izzy away.

 Not really strange at all. He was pretty pissed off at Izzy for abandoning GNR. Anger and reason don't generally go hand and hand.

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Was either of Axl's fathers convicted of child abuse or sexual abuse? 

One way that some posters minimize the multiple accounts by multiple women that say that Axl physically asssulted them is by saying he was never convicted in court. So that means he was innocent of those accusations. 

If his two fathers weren't convicted, does that mean we shouldn't believe the abuse accusations?

Also, for those who think that Axl was horrible abused his entire life, does that make you think he deserves a free pass for all his incidences of punching people and getting in fights? 

I recently got called crazy and a psycho for running over a guys foot with a wheelchair (after he called a disabled woman a fat bitch who was faking her disability).  Meanwhile....we have video of Axl sucker punching a camera man at an airport. Of him jumping into a crowd to fight somebody. We know he got into a fight a couple years ago with some fashion designer. We know he got arrested awhile back at a hotel for biting a security guard. We know him and DJ double teamed a guy in a fight (two guys beating up one guy - is that a cool thing?). We know he smacked around at least two women and paid them $1.5 million dollars to drop their charges against him. Heck, what about the childish rant against Madison where he called her a lesbian cunt. 

Why do people hold Axl to a standard that they wouldn't put up with if it was some random dude who was dating their sister. If Joe Blow did 1/5th of the things Axl has, people on this forum would absolutely destroy that person. 

Do people give Axl a free pass because he is your idol or because of the harsh childhood he had? 

That's an honest question. Hopefully people can answer it without going into Apollo-Outrage mode. I really am curious why some posters have a different moral code for Axl than they do for other people. (Not being sarcastic or passing my own moral judgement against other posters, nobody should be offended by it). 

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3 hours ago, Apollo said:

Was either of Axl's fathers convicted of child abuse or sexual abuse? 

One way that some posters minimize the multiple accounts by multiple women that say that Axl physically asssulted them is by saying he was never convicted in court. So that means he was innocent of those accusations. 

If his two fathers weren't convicted, does that mean we shouldn't believe the abuse accusations?

Also, for those who think that Axl was horrible abused his entire life, does that make you think he deserves a free pass for all his incidences of punching people and getting in fights? 

I recently got called crazy and a psycho for running over a guys foot with a wheelchair (after he called a disabled woman a fat bitch who was faking her disability).  Meanwhile....we have video of Axl sucker punching a camera man at an airport. Of him jumping into a crowd to fight somebody. We know he got into a fight a couple years ago with some fashion designer. We know he got arrested awhile back at a hotel for biting a security guard. We know him and DJ double teamed a guy in a fight (two guys beating up one guy - is that a cool thing?). We know he smacked around at least two women and paid them $1.5 million dollars to drop their charges against him. Heck, what about the childish rant against Madison where he called her a lesbian cunt. 

Why do people hold Axl to a standard that they wouldn't put up with if it was some random dude who was dating their sister. If Joe Blow did 1/5th of the things Axl has, people on this forum would absolutely destroy that person. 

Do people give Axl a free pass because he is your idol or because of the harsh childhood he had? 

That's an honest question. Hopefully people can answer it without going into Apollo-Outrage mode. I really am curious why some posters have a different moral code for Axl than they do for other people. (Not being sarcastic or passing my own moral judgement against other posters, nobody should be offended by it). 

I think you're seeing what you want to see. If you had ever actually read the Axl and Erin discussions in various places for example (instead of just whining about it), you'd have seen that many posters expressed a lot of concern and misgivings about Erin seemingly wanting Axl back/the possibility of them ever being in a relationship again due to Axl's history. I've seen many people around here say they would never forgive Axl if he did what he allegedly did to Erin to them or a friend/family member of theirs.

No one sane is giving him a free pass about the abuse allegations. It's pretty obvious he is guilty of that and it's even more than just 2 women.

But that doesn't mean one can't also have empathy for a child in a terrible situation. Especially since his fucked up childhood is what is most likely the direct cause of him becoming such a fucked up person.

Edited by Lumikki
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