GNR Women's discussion

[killuridols]

34 minutes ago, dgnr said:

I don't think I expressed myself very well then (damn you english...I'm thinking in portuguese and my bad english maybe didn't help haha). 

I agree with you that culture and education are not the same thing, I'm trying to say that. But I'm not talking about culture as a culture, but as something you learn in your life by reading, by searching for things and not necessarily at school. Like, I don't know, things that happened in History, some science fact, know who invented some random thing - basically things you use in a Trivia game for example. Maybe there's a better word for this that I'm calling 'culture' in english, but I'm not getting there - general knowledge maybe.

These are the kind of things that you 'absorb' or learn by yourself, school will maybe help you with that or maybe not. Most of time it's your curiosity, you don't learn everything at school. It helps, ( sometimes, I would say - I'm sure you already meet someone who has very good grades, who learns very well, but at the end of the day doesn't know shit about the world he's living in ) but that's not all.

What I was trying to say is that Axl has this knowledge, this kind of inteligence if we can say this way, and you don't need to be educated to have that or you born with that. It's a thing that you adquire and develop by yourself.

Ok, I get it now. I know what you're talking about. "Cultura general" or general knowledge is what you meant and it is something you acquire in school, in daily life and by your own will to learn different things.

No, you don't learn everything at school but since most children are schooled, chances are that most of the basic things you know you learn them in kindergarden and primary school. Of course, your family matters and that's the first environment where you learn things.

The things you learn in life and outside school are helpful for your survival in society. General knowledge is not specific, you learn a bit of everything and you may acquire a vast general knowledge but if you want to be an architect or a lawyer or a surgeon, you will need to attend the university because that type of specific knowledge you won't get it from the magazines or documentaries.

Yes, Axl has that knowledge like probably most adults have it. The older you get the more you learn about life, interactions, dealing with people, money, etc. It is part of a healthy growth as a person, as you move towards adulthood. I don't think this is related to intelligence, though.

It is more like being 'street smart' but probably Axl has lost a lot of it by now since he lives pretty sheltered and doesn't really walk the streets like he used to when he was young.

12 minutes ago, stella said:

I think distance or solitary learning can be great for certain types of people. There are those who really love the classroom interaction and then there are others who do better if they quietly absorb what they're reading or learning. Like I hate, hate, hate, going to museums with other people or tours. I don't want someone to tell me what the painting means; I want look at it, make my own conclusions about it and read the museum's analysis. On the other hand there are certain things that really work better in a classroom. Like learning another language is weird if you never have conversation.

-------

I'd love to hear Axl talk about his reasons for liking those symbols too. What's also weird is that he seems to love crucifixes but those don't usually appear in Protestant churches like the one Axl grew up in. Protestants generally use plain crosses. I asked about this once and was told it's because the crucifix shows Jesus dead, and the whole point is that Jesus was resurrected and didn't stay dead. Makes sense, and those plain crosses look better to me, personally. Some of the crucifixes I've seen are just gruesome, and I can't imagine feeling comfortable with that hanging in my living room. He seems to have borrowed a bunch of Catholic symbols, actually...the crucifixes, Our Lady, and he's also worn rosaries. Lots of folks do that now, but not so much 20 years ago. And during the Farm Aid performance he actually did a correct Sign of the Cross. I almost wonder if he's had an interest in Catholicism or at least the symbolism with it.

Stained glass on the other hand is so beautiful - I could totally understand it if someone collected stained glass from churches because that's just amazing work.

Well, I don't like reading with people around, so yeah, when I have to do my readings for class, I'm alone and its usually in the night when everybody's in silence and I know I wont get interrupted by crap. But then, going to the classroom and listening to the teacher expose their class is a great experience if the teacher is a good one. And debating the ideas with your classmates and the teacher is a great experience, in my opinion, because I'm pretty much into debate, lol.

So far, academic environments have been the only places where I have felt like swimming in gold because of the great chance I have had of being in the same place with extraordinary minds, highly educated and brilliant researchers. People with whom you can really take the conversation and debate to a higher level that I can't have at home with my family or anywhere else with friends.

It gets even better if from those gatherings, ideas are being cooked and you are maybe creating the next theory that will change your society. Or you are designing a plan for your local community to improve its public policies. University is great if you really make something out of it and use it for your benefit and also to benefit others, whatever your field of study is, there is always something you can do for people. I guess that's where the whole value of education resides.

-----

That observation is interesting, Axl appropiating symbols from Catholicism instead of the ones he grew up with. Could be the influence of Beta? Brasil is as Catholic as Argentina so there's a chance she may have influenced him with her own religion.

Yeah, it is "trendy" now to wear rosaries and crosses that do not have Jesus nailed on them. I have this strange rosary too that doesn't have any religious reference, like no image of Virgin Mary or cross at all, the end of it its actually cut off, lol.

[SerenityScorp]

Well 

57 minutes ago, stella said:

And during the Farm Aid performance he actually did a correct Sign of the Cross. I almost wonder if he's had an interest in Catholicism or at least the symbolism with it.

?

 

maybe We need to understand about the meaning of the crucifix first so tht We know why Axl love crucifixes

[tiutso]

https://twitter.com/gunsnroses/status/764310989680447490/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Man, this is giving me major 'story about slash watching slaxl clones make out' vibes 

[nn18]

10 hours ago, stella said:

I actually think Axl is very intelligent - the way he speaks and expresses himself show that, I think. And then there are the mental/emotional issues with him that also influence things. Having a high intellect doesn't necessarily mean one always makes the right choices...a hell of a lot of very intelligent people end up in very bad situations, and as mentioned before, end up in cults, end up supporting bad leaders, etc.

THIS

Yes, there's a difference between being intelligent and being smart; as some here already pointed out.

A smart person is someone who's very well educated, who makes right and well-thought desicions, who's full of knoledge and well-spoken.

Inteligence is a different thing; there's various tipes of intelligence a person can have; spacial intelligence, linguistic, logical, interpersonal, musical etc and type of intelligence that is often indentified with the term intelligence itself; logical-mathematical. (And than, there's a whole problem with IQ tests that give much more credit to logical-mathematical intelligence opposed to idk, interpersonal. And as a physics student myself I know what I'm talking about; there are people here that consider themself new Einstans, but thay're not able to say ''Hi'' or chat a little cause they lack that interpersonal intelligence.) Intelligence is something that you're born with and you ''develop'' as you get older, but it has nothing to do with cultural differences, education etc. 

That said, I always considered Axl extremely intelligent; you can see it in his interviews, the way he talks, the way he thinks, and what struck me the most, the way he explains things and situations compairing them to some everyday things using PERFECT examples. You can see it in his lyrics, too. But due to his nature, his stuborness and mental/emotional issues, possibly his lack of education and the way he was raised and in what environment he grew up affected his way of making desicions. But whether he's intelligent- I say hell yes. 

Edited August 13, 2016 by nn18

[giuls]

Yeah, there are different kinds of intelligent, if we go with the "classic" ripartion of the theory of the multiple intelligences (there are a lot of theories about intelligence but the theory that there is ONE intelligence is not used anymore by anyone in psychology) there are 9 kinds and no-one has all them developed to the max, maybe his interpersonal intelligence is lacking and he's guillible about other people's motive but that doesn't mean he isn't intelligent in other ways: he has obviously a lot of musical intelligence, he has made millions with that, he seems articulate to me so he has linguistic intelligence and he seems to me from the various interviews that he reflects on himself and he knows there are problems and what they were within himself so he has intrapersonal intellingence, for example, and all of them are totally kinds of intelligences so he is intelligent.

 

About the crucifixes, maybe he has abbandoned the evangelical church but not christianity and he has accosted himseld to catholicism? The doctrines are quite different, actually, protestantism preachs you are saved by the grace of god, your actions in life don't matter in your salvation, if you go to heaven is decided by god from the start, you don't count.

Catholics have free will in their doctrine and your salvation is determineted by how you live your life, YOU decide if you're going to hell by what you do.

I can see him not being okay with the predestination aspect  of protestantism and liking more the free will aspect of catholicism because of his need of control.

Or maybe, he thinks crucifixes are just pretty 

Edited August 13, 2016 by giuls

[Lumikki]

10 hours ago, killuridols said:

I'm thinking too... hehe... hmm.. I guess he kind of.... did question the whole religious thing because he spoke about it on the interviews. I mean, he said "I was forced to read the bible, go to mise every day of the week, etc". He also said how he was punished for watching a woman in bikini on TV or checking out women on magazines.

He knew that system was fucked up because everything he wanted to do he said it was wrong in the eyes of his father, so to me, it's hard to understand how come he wasn't questioning all of that, when in fact he was, but at the same time, as you say, keeping some of it to him, like the crosses and I'd add the shirts with Jesus face he would also wear in shows.

So basically, I'm confused about it. Like @Lumikki said before, my country is Catholic AF (lol) too and well, the Pope is argentine as you know , but every time more and more people stop believing, especially young people do not believe at all and are not really practising catholicism as they should be. I was raised Catholic, of course, but I jumped off that boat like 20 years ago and I didn't go looking for a new religion because I think all religions suck, so I'm an atheist now and I can't imagine myself joining a religion in the future or starting to believe in anything that cannot be explained rationally. This is why I don't understand Axl... why does he need any of that if he knows those shits make you a slave and he was supposed to look for freedom, at least, that's what he wrote he wanted

Like you said, maybe it really is the way how religion was presented to you in your childhood. Growing up in a Catholic AF country (lol thanks for that) as well, I was also raised Catholic technically speaking. But in my case that only meant I was baptized, put through all these rituals like first communion etc. and had to sit through religious education classes in school. And I had to go to church a few times a year on special occasions when I was a child (later on my family stopped going to church entirely).

But in every day life, religion had zero importance or influence and that's where mine (or our, going by the way you talk) and Axl's childhood really differs, despite both (all) of us being raised in some form of really dogmatic Christianity.

I never got beaten for doing something sinful- because concepts like sin don't really exist in my parents minds (except as a joking matter) and they certainly didn't think singing along to the radio or looking at scantily clad people on TV was sinful.

I didn't have to read the bible or learn it by heart- because we didn't even have a bible at home and my parents couldn't have cared less about that old dusty book.

I didn't have to go to church 8 times a week- I already threw temper tantrums about the like 3 or 4 times a year I actually did have to go to church (because it was boring AF). Which had zero consequences except my parents maybe yelling at me or threatening to revoke some privileges. I shudder to imagine what would have happened to Axl if he had thrown a temper tantrum about going to church

I was allowed to be skeptical and question things- I got into trouble with my religious education teacher in elementary school once for making a remark about the Adam and Eve story being bullshit because then we'd all be descended from the incestual offspring of Adam and Eve's children. My teacher wasn't amused, but my dad was proud lol. Around the same time (I must have been 8 or 9 or so) I also told my parents that I didn't believe in god and that I thought Catholicism was bullshit. My mom was a bit upset about that, but my dad was pretty pleased again (he's harbored a disdain for religion and the church his entire life lol). I imagine if Axl had said something like that as a child there'd probably have been hell to pay. Religion just had a much more direct impact on his life than it ever had on mine and I guess that leaves scars

8 hours ago, stella said:

I'd love to hear Axl talk about his reasons for liking those symbols too. What's also weird is that he seems to love crucifixes but those don't usually appear in Protestant churches like the one Axl grew up in. Protestants generally use plain crosses. I asked about this once and was told it's because the crucifix shows Jesus dead, and the whole point is that Jesus was resurrected and didn't stay dead. Makes sense, and those plain crosses look better to me, personally. Some of the crucifixes I've seen are just gruesome, and I can't imagine feeling comfortable with that hanging in my living room. He seems to have borrowed a bunch of Catholic symbols, actually...the crucifixes, Our Lady, and he's also worn rosaries. Lots of folks do that now, but not so much 20 years ago. And during the Farm Aid performance he actually did a correct Sign of the Cross. I almost wonder if he's had an interest in Catholicism or at least the symbolism with it.

Stained glass on the other hand is so beautiful - I could totally understand it if someone collected stained glass from churches because that's just amazing work.

8 hours ago, killuridols said:

That observation is interesting, Axl appropiating symbols from Catholicism instead of the ones he grew up with. Could be the influence of Beta? Brasil is as Catholic as Argentina so there's a chance she may have influenced him with her own religion.

That thing about it maybe being Beta's influence has crossed my mind as well. But then again he seemed to start doing that kind of thing even before he met her (or got close with her), so who knows.

@stella You'd love my hometown then Huge ass, giant Jesus nailed to a crucifix right outside of the church, overlooking the town square. I remember walking past that thing as a child, looking up at it, and always being morbidly fascinated by the blood running down his hands and from his head where the crown of thorns was digging into his skull. Plus smaller Jesus nailed to the cross type crucifixes in every class room in school and in every living room, kitchen, bedroom, etc in the houses of most people.

 

39 minutes ago, giuls said:

Yeah, there are different kinds of intelligent, if we go with the "classic" ripartion of the theory of the multiple intelligences (there are a lot of theories about intelligence but the theory that there is ONE intelligence is not used anymore by anyone in psychology) there are 9 kinds and no-one has all them developed to the max, maybe his interpersonal intelligence is lacking and he's guillible about other people's motive but that doesn't mean he isn't intelligent in other ways: he has obviously a lot of musical intelligence, he has made millions with that, he seems articulate to me so he has linguistic intelligence and he seems to me from the various interviews that he reflects on himself and he knows there are problems and what they were within himself so he has intrapersonal intellingence, for example, and all of them are totally kinds of intelligences so he is intelligent.

Yeah, I mostly tend to agree with that. He's... reasonably intelligent and gifted when it comes to music, self-reflection, language-related skills, academic things/book learning, etc. But he's a mess when it comes to people skills, common sense, and so on. Though it's not really surprising if you consider the way he was raised. People don't tend to develop great interpersonal skills for example in environments like the one he grew up in.

 

10 hours ago, tiutso said:

I tried typing out a response but it got too fucking long; that pissed me off. Very summarized version:

1. Not gonna care about his psychologist's words unless I find out where this psychologist was practising and whether it was a psychologist at all, because don't get me started on school counsellors; and whether it was just an evaluation of the impression he was giving off or an actual testing of his cognitive abilities. It's not horribly difficult for a broody intense teenager to bullshit his way through a brief relationship with one of these people if we're talking a shitty area and they demonstrate some insight into the general inner workings of their social context and some intention to optimize it. God knows, I wish I didn't have a reminder that some people can make their way into the psychological field when they really shouldn't have living right next to me.

2. Verbal intelligence. Is often the most obvious giveaway in children with unusual intellectual development. Regardless of their social skills or ability to enter actual verbal interactions easily. Demonstrates skills in operating language and language-based reasoning. If doesn't show up in person's output, whether lyrics, speech, or interaction with linguistic material, person probably not 'super-intelligent'.

I agree with you, I find that assessment highly suspect as well (that's why I put it in brackets and added the emoji). Who knows what effect it might have had on Axl though...

7 hours ago, tiutso said:

https://twitter.com/gunsnroses/status/764310989680447490/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Man, this is giving me major 'story about slash watching slaxl clones make out' vibes 

Hah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of that. That was literally my first thought when I saw that picture on IG this morning

Btw, did you mean the Periscope link that was posted in the concert thread or did you find another one of Grace's performance somewhere? I kinda wanted to watch her, but was too tired to stay up for it.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Lumikki

[giuls]

7 hours ago, tiutso said:

https://twitter.com/gunsnroses/status/764310989680447490/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Man, this is giving me major 'story about slash watching slaxl clones make out' vibes 

Yes, i always have a couple making out in front of me at concert, it's annoying, let's share that discomfort with the band members too, it's only fair 

[tiutso]

1 hour ago, Lumikki said:

Btw, did you mean the Periscope link that was posted in the concert thread or did you find another one of Grace's performance somewhere? I kinda wanted to watch her, but was too tired to stay up for it.

That's the one I watched. Time Waster starts somewhere round the 2 minute mark.

https://www.periscope.tv/JBrown2844/1YpKkoZeLrYKj

[killuridols]

Was Axl wearing an earring last night?

[SerenityScorp]

It would be weird if They are on the front row. Couldnt imagine Axl N' Slash see that 

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

Was Axl wearing an earring last night?

Huh? 

[SerenityScorp]

1 hour ago, Lumikki said:

I never got beaten for doing something sinful- because concepts like sin don't really exist in my parents minds (except as a joking matter) and they certainly didn't think singing along to the radio or looking at scantily clad people on TV was sinful.

In My house some things are sinful but yeah, I never got beaten because of tht

Edited August 13, 2016 by SerenityScorp

[nn18]

This was cute:

That picture Slash posted couple of days ago (lol)

One of the comments was:

From Lucy, Meegan's older daughter  

[giuls]

Sure, Slash, you don't  don't tell me he says it's art, oh my god 

[tiutso]

9 minutes ago, nn18 said:

That picture Slash posted couple of days ago (lol)

Why is he like this, who hurt him

[dgnr]

2 minutes ago, tiutso said:

Why is he like this, who hurt him

W. Axl Rose, that's who 

[SerenityScorp]

8 minutes ago, dgnr said:

W. Axl Rose, that's who 

Jealous cause Slash with Meegan now 

Edited August 13, 2016 by SerenityScorp

[tiutso]

They did Warped Tour yesterday, too.

[SerenityScorp]

 

[killuridols]

[acidcock27]

didn't axl say in a interview that he never went to school after junior year but he would take like the yearly test and he would score in the top 3%. when axl answers questions iin interviews he is able to go much deeper into the topic than your average celebrity, he expands and expands then brings everything he has said to one conclusion without even realising it. Many of the mistakes he has made have probably come from desperation rather than naivety , a desperation to be rid of whatever mental tick he has that makes him berserk

[tiutso]

Someone on Tumblr is spreading DJ Ashba's graduation photo as Axl's 

[SerenityScorp]

13 minutes ago, tiutso said:

Someone on Tumblr is spreading DJ Ashba's graduation photo as Axl's 

[SerenityScorp]

[Jane M.]

This place has been extremely quiet today...doofus must be very happy about it. 

[tiutso]

24 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

This place has been extremely quiet today...doofus must be very happy about it. 

Is it because it's the weekend or something? I guess people actually have things to do irl