GNR Women's discussion

[Crazedlioness]

16 minutes ago, Lumikki said:

Lovely pictures @Andy14! Keep 'em coming  (And I do indeed love that pic of young glammy Axl )

 

I listened to it recently after @Blackstar had mentioned it and actually typed some of it down while listening (which was excruciating, because Dougie on audio is even more obnoxious than in writing, incredibly enough). My comments are in purple because it was a confusing white mess before that.

 

Some random things that stood out to me:

- Dougie told a story about how he trained Slash to stop destroying hotel rooms. Came across as really condescending to me, no wonder Slash hated him. Also called Steven a doll and a sweetie, which was kind of weird along the same lines.

- As Mick Wall recently wrote in his book, the thing about Niven and Izzy were really into "black magic" and going to New Orleans a lot together because of that came up again. Maybe that's why Niven is so paranoid about Satan now

- Is there a giant vault of unreleased GNR songs? - Nope, as far as Dougie knows there aren't any.

- Axl met Yoda through Suzy London (I knew that already), and he had a lot of faith in Suzy and the regression therapy they were doing together. And since it was a lot about faith it was kind of like a religion and therefore a sensitive topic according to Dougie. The rest of the band complained to Dougie that Yoda was a fucking whackjob, but criticizing people's religion never goes well and so they just gave him his space and went with it, despite the fact that Dougie was aware that these people were in no way qualified, doctors or anything like that.  Sharon was just a housewife, according to Dougie, but he thinks Axl would still be involved with Yoda if she hadn't died

- Mitch Lafon asked Dougie about the letter Frey posted a while ago. Doug proudly admits that he wrote that letter and gave it to Beta. Shortly after it ended up on the internet somehow. He never expected that letter to become public knowledge. One wonders who put it onto the net? Axl?

- The thing Courtney Love yelled to Axl at that MTV event (?) apparently was "Hey, look it's Asshole Rose. Hey, asshole!" And in general, Axl only reacted with anger towards Kurt/Nirvana because his feelings were really hurt. Because he loved Kurt and didn't expect what he got.

- Axl likes doing things that will go down in history.

 

About Alan Niven and Axl:

- Goldstein kept comparing Niven and Axl to his own father and his brother, who had some kind of mental illness (manic-depressive, iirc). Apparently Dougie's father was a tyrant and his brother a genius manic-depressive genius or something. And Axl's and Niven's relationship apparently was just the same as his father's relationship with his brother; yet another tyrant figure unable to get along with the menatlly ill kid... Yeah, okay, whatever. And I guess I could see how a dominant father figure/tyrant type of manager would immediately rub Axl the wrong way because of his childhood experiences.

- At one point Alan Niven handed Axl song lyrics on the bus. Axl opened the bus window and threw Niven's lyrics out, saying "I don't want my manager to hand me songs, I want you to be my manager." (That's... such an Axl thing to do.)

- Niven hated Axl. He hated axl from day one. It was Niven's idea to kick Axl out of the band in the 80s and he got the others on board with it, but they apparently weren't so sure or something because they asked Doug what he thought about that and Doug basically told them it was a stupid idea (wow; something I agree with Doug on ).

- Niven always talked about Axl in really disparaging and denigrating ways and one day Dougie realized that he'd never heard Axl talk as horribly about Alan as Alan Niven talked about Axl. So he figured Axl was the better person between the two and decided to stay with Axl instead of going with Niven. (Very similar to Beta's reasoning as to why she chose Axl over Steph Seymour. Funny how they all choose to stay with Axl because he's just such a good person. Surely no other reasons at all )

- Niven hadnt spoken to Axl in 9 months at one point, because he was too busy doing great white stuff. (Great job managing GNR there. No wonder other morons like Dougie had an easy time taking over )

- One day Dougie was talking to Axl on the phone about the annullment of his marriage to Erin, when Axl asked to talk to Niven. Dougie thought this was a great idea to get Niven back into Axl's good graces, but Niven wasn't having it. He took the phone and told Axl "Wow, how fucking sad for you. Yet again you failed at something. At the end of the day, when I lay my head down next to my wife, I know that we're together forever. Yet again you've managed to fuck something up." And then he hung up.

Now I'm the last person to excuse what Axl did to Erin and their marriage not working out was indeed mostly on Axl, but fuck. Could he be any more cruel? "Yet again you failed at something." "Yet again you've managed to fuck something up."  And rubbing his happy relationship with his wife under his nose. If this was the kind of manner in which he usually talked to Axl, then I really can't blame Axl for wanting to get rid of him. Not to mention that this kind of thing surely didn't help his insecurity issues and fears about not being good enough either.

Anyway, after that conversation, Dougie called Slash in desperation and asked him what to do because things between Axl and Niven clearly weren't getting better/working out again. But Slash was done with Niven too because Niven had apparently tried to fuck Slash's fiance Renee at a party, so Slash just said "I'm fucking done with this, I can't do this anymore. Ask him what he wants and pay him off." And that's how Niven's time in GNR ended.

 

About Axl and Axl's relationship with Slash and the band:

- Dougie told a funny story about how Axl was both impressed and terrified by Slash's song writing (stuff like Coma and Locomotive): "I would get these phone calls from Axl, saying 'You wouldn't fucking believe what he (Slash) has written now. How am I supposed to write lyrics to that?!"

- "Axl has this incredible inherent fear of not being able to pull it off live."; "I don't even know if it should be called stage fright, I'd call it a fear of failing."; "Axl was constantly having issues with his throat. Now combine that with his fear of going on stage and failing. And that's the reason he takes so long to get ready for a show."

That's one thing Alan Niven and Doug Goldstein agree on. Niven has also talked about Axl suffering from extreme stage fright and having some anxiety issues related to that.

- ML: "Would you say Axl is misunderstood?"  Doug: "COMPLETELY! Even by his own band members. He loves those guys, he loves those guys. I can't speak to today, but... I have to say that my perception has always been that Axl loved them way more than they knew and people would argue with me 'actions speak louder than words', but you know, Slash would come to me -and again, I had the ability to grow up with a manic-depressive in my room- and Slash would come up to me and say: 'he's acting like an irrational fucking asshole!' and I'd go 'oh right, this is the point where I defend him for his irrational acts'. Can't be done."

ML: Do you think Axl is still manic-depressive, or do you think he's managed to get that under control? Doug: I don't think that ever goes away. It never goes away.

- "Axl always wants to do things right. And one of the things that's been frustrating for me, because he does that with his own band members, Axl LOVES Slash and Duff and Izzy, obviously, because of growing up with him, he LOVES those guys, but he doesn't know how to communicate it. So whenever we'd have some shit go down, the band was kind of left not really understanding why things were happening. I would try and communicate Axl's position, but it's always been pretty frustrating to me that Axl refuses to stick up for himself in ANY situation.

This I can absolutely believe. Knowing how to show love and communicating it is something you learn, usually from your family, but if you don't learn it there, well. I remember Beta also said something similar once about Axl not knowing how to give and receive love and affection when she met him. The thing about Axl not sticking up for himself... I've heard this before from someone else (Baz maybe?).

- About Slash playing with Michael Jackson: "When Axl fell out of love with Slash, it's this instance. It's not Slash's side, clearly, but I was there, I was living it and Axl... He was IN TEARS when Slash went to play with Michael. We had absolute knowledge of the allegations. Axl had courageously spoken about his childhood in Rolling Stone, and it was absolutely uncomprehensible to him that Slash, who he loved and felt like was his partner all the way down the line in GNR, would actually go against how he felt towards child molestation, particularly over a big screen TV. That was the straw that broke the camels back. But in fairness, I didn't say that's not why Slash and Duff left, not even close,  but that is when Axl disengaged as to thinking that Slash was his partner in GNR.

ML: It was a sense of betrayal, I guess?  Doug: Yeah, big time.

I remember when this story first appeared in the Brazilian Rolling Stone or something, people called bullshit. But I'm convinced it's true. For one thing, Marc Canter said the same thing in the recent BBC documentary. And for another, this is exactly the kind of thing Axl would really get upset and hurt about while Slash might not even have been thinking too much about it. And Doug doesn't sound like he's lying or making something up if you listen to him actually tell this story.

Not gonna lie, Axl actually crying because Slash went to perform with MJ makes me want to cry too. To Axl, it probably looked liked getting a fucking TV as payment for appearing with MJ was more important to Slash than all the shit Axl had gone through as a child (and I have no doubt Axl told Slash all about that).

What an awful situation.

 

 

Yeah like I said, he licked his own ass quite a bit as he usually does and wow can't even fathom the effort you must have put into this. The one thing that struck me in this interview is when he says the thing about him being in a different country while slash and duff signed off the gnr name even though slash and duff basically blame it all on him. I don't think he's lying about that tbh

[MillionsOfSpiders]

@Lumikki this part of your post reminds me of what someone told Rolling Stone magazine. 

I was just re reading that the other day. Pretty sad. 

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, KiraMPD said:

I agree, that does indeed sound like Axl in the background.

LOL! Remember when Bach said this...?

 

Yes, yes!!!! I was thinking about that too and Baz knows his shit. 

I know how my Axl sounds when I hear him, have known him for 25 years 

@Lumikki is that Doug interview from 2015 or a recent one?

Next time we are on the chat remind me to show you what I've got about the Michael Jackson thing. I've shown Andy the other day.

[Lumikki]

38 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

@Lumikki this part of your post reminds me of what someone told Rolling Stone magazine. 

I was just re reading that the other day. Pretty sad. 

Good point. I remember reading that, but had totally forgotten about it. Between Dougie, Beta and the anonymous friend above claiming that Axl has has trouble showing love and affection, it's probably true. Though Beta has also said that Axl's a lot better about this kind of thing now and is used to cuddling and kissing now because they're big on that in their family.

I think it also fits with the thing Slash has said about Axl liking to make up with grand gestures. People who are terrible at showing their love often try to do so by giving expensive gifts or making grand gestures in my experience.

 

39 minutes ago, Crazedlioness said:

Yeah like I said, he licked his own ass quite a bit as he usually does and wow can't even fathom the effort you must have put into this. The one thing that struck me in this interview is when he says the thing about him being in a different country while slash and duff signed off the gnr name even though slash and duff basically blame it all on him. I don't think he's lying about that tbh

Nah, I was just making notes for myself while listening to it and just prettied them up a little now. But I didn't mention the thing with the contract because some days ago I think @Blackstar said something about Dougie recently admitting that he was in the same country after all. So it seems like he straight-up lied about that one.

 

1 hour ago, KiraMPD said:

Honestly, I feel like I can trust neither when they talk about Axl. Alan Niven always comes across like a bitter ex with an axe to grind while Doug Goldstein is often a little too complimentary and his "stories" are a little fantastical and over-dramatic (to the point that it sometimes sounds made-up). I just try to keep an open mind about it and find as many sources as possible...

In addition to that, could someone tell me (with sources) if Alan Niven and Doug Goldstein had/have their own substance abuse problems? 'Cuz in a lot of their interviews they don't seem quite all "there", ya know what I mean?

Dougie mentions having some kind of disorder in that interview that makes him manic, without the depressive part. I can totally believe it; he's constantly yelling, it's like he can't talk without yelling. It was actually hurting my ears after some time. Comes across as really hyper and choleric and can't stop giggling at his own jokes.

Niven definitely engaged in his fair share of drugs and alcohol. He used to do drugs and drink with the band, which the band didn't like according to Doug Goldstein.

 

14 minutes ago, killuridols said:

@Lumikki is that Doug interview from 2015 or a recent one?

It's the 2015 one. But I had never actually listened to it and decided to finally bite the bullet some days ago lol.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2016 by Lumikki

[nonok]

Awwww Axl, poor baby. I wanna cry and give him a hug. Seriously, with these constant reminders about how awful his life was, it's impossible to judge him for the models or TB etc. I hope he's really solved all these issues - it seems so judging by the past year, but... you can never be sure with this problematic man.

[KiraMPD]

1 hour ago, Lumikki said:

- At one point Alan Niven handed Axl song lyrics on the bus. Axl opened the bus window and threw Niven's lyrics out, saying "I don't want my manager to hand me songs, I want you to be my manager." (That's... such an Axl thing to do.)

The thing is, I completely agree with that. The manager should manage the band and take care of the business aspect of things and keep the talent's best interest in mind. You don't want the manager to dictate the artist's material!

1 hour ago, Lumikki said:

- "Axl has this incredible inherent fear of not being able to pull it off live."; "I don't even know if it should be called stage fright, I'd call it a fear of failing."; "Axl was constantly having issues with his throat. Now combine that with his fear of going on stage and failing. And that's the reason he takes so long to get ready for a show."

That's one thing Alan Niven and Doug Goldstein agree on. Niven has also talked about Axl suffering from extreme stage fright and having some anxiety issues related to that.

Stage fright/anxiety issues make so much sense in hindsight. But then I look at all of the old recording and bootlegs and it just boggles the mind... Out of all the musicians I've seen, Axl seemed the most natural on stage. He wasn't overly theatrical, didn't seem choreographed, spoke to the audience as though he was looking each and every person in the eye and generally treated the stage as though it was his own personal playground. So when I look at his performance I think, "THAT guy has stage fright? WTF?!"

Obviously the logical part of me admits that one can be a phenomenal performer and have stage fright as well...

36 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Next time we are on the chat remind me to show you what I've got about the Michael Jackson thing. I've shown Andy the other day.

I'm really curious now. Do tell...? 

[marlingrl03]

Color version...perfect Axl.  

Cap rules. It's a keeper! *hint, hint Axl* 

Edited November 27, 2016 by marlingrl03

[Blackstar]

 

5 hours ago, Lumikki said:

I listened to it recently after @Blackstar had mentioned it and actually typed some of it down while listening (which was excruciating, because Dougie on audio is even more obnoxious than in writing, incredibly enough). My comments are in purple because it was a confusing white mess before that.

Thanks for transcribing these parts. Yeah, I could barely stand listening to this guy talking, too. I remember him saying every two minutes or so "I looove Alan Niven/Slash/Duff but..."

5 hours ago, Lumikki said:

- One day Dougie was talking to Axl on the phone about the annullment of his marriage to Erin, when Axl asked to talk to Niven. Dougie thought this was a great idea to get Niven back into Axl's good graces, but Niven wasn't having it. He took the phone and told Axl "Wow, how fucking sad for you. Yet again you failed at something. At the end of the day, when I lay my head down next to my wife, I know that we're together forever. Yet again you've managed to fuck something up." And then he hung up.

Now I'm the last person to excuse what Axl did to Erin and their marriage not working out was indeed mostly on Axl, but fuck. Could he be any more cruel? "Yet again you failed at something." "Yet again you've managed to fuck something up."  And rubbing his happy relationship with his wife under his nose. If this was the kind of manner in which he usually talked to Axl, then I really can't blame Axl for wanting to get rid of him. Not to mention that this kind of thing surely didn't help his insecurity issues and fears about not being good enough either.

The irony is that, not long after, Niven broke up with his wife because she was cheating on him with the singer of Great White. Niven says in Mick Wall's book that this was an additional reason for his "breakdown" and his belief that he was under "psychic attack" from Axl and Yoda

5 hours ago, Lumikki said:

- ML: "Would you say Axl is misunderstood?"  Doug: "COMPLETELY! Even by his own band members. He loves those guys, he loves those guys. I can't speak to today, but... I have to say that my perception has always been that Axl loved them way more than they knew and people would argue with me 'actions speak louder than words', but you know, Slash would come to me -and again, I had the ability to grow up with a manic-depressive in my room- and Slash would come up to me and say: 'he's acting like an irrational fucking asshole!' and I'd go 'oh right, this is the point where I defend him for his irrational acts'. Can't be done."

ML: Do you think Axl is still manic-depressive, or do you think he's managed to get that under control? Doug: I don't think that ever goes away. It never goes away.

- "Axl always wants to do things right. And one of the things that's been frustrating for me, because he does that with his own band members, Axl LOVES Slash and Duff and Izzy, obviously, because of growing up with him, he LOVES those guys, but he doesn't know how to communicate it. So whenever we'd have some shit go down, the band was kind of left not really understanding why things were happening. I would try and communicate Axl's position, but it's always been pretty frustrating to me that Axl refuses to stick up for himself in ANY situation.

In Mick Wall's book he says that back then (during the UYI tour) he thought he was doing the right thing when he wouldn't let Slash and Duff talk to Axl and confront him, but now he regrets doing it:

 

5 hours ago, Crazedlioness said:

Yeah like I said, he licked his own ass quite a bit as he usually does and wow can't even fathom the effort you must have put into this. The one thing that struck me in this interview is when he says the thing about him being in a different country while slash and duff signed off the gnr name even though slash and duff basically blame it all on him. I don't think he's lying about that tbh

Yes, Duff has said they signed off the name in Barcelona and Goldstein said he was in America at that time waiting for his son's birth. He had said the same in another interview before the one with Lafon:

"As I understand it, [Axl] had [the bands lawyer] Laurie Soriano draft an agreement in Barcelona relinquishing their rights in the name, before he would take the stage." (Doug Goldstein, 12/03/13)

"The shitty thing is Slash and Duff were so fucked up that they think I gave them the ultimatum and that's why they don't speak to me today... I was at home, waiting for [my son] Jake's birth... It was [given to them by tour manager / Big FD associate John L.] Reese." (Doug Goldstein, 12/03/13)

"I was halfway round the globe [on that day]!" (Doug Goldstein, 12/03/13)

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?pid=54633

But now, in Mick Wall's book, he says he was there:

So when he is telling the truth? (I believe that he was in Barcelona and that he had been lying before about it). I don't consider this guy credible. But I do believe the story with Axl and the gun; I don't think he would have a reason to make it up.

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

9 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

Color version...perfect Axl.  

I'm so glad pictures are finally showing Axl's beauty in all its glory. He looks exactly as I saw him in my River Plate shows. He's very beautiful in person, in real life, he looks really good and so much better than in some pics.

I feel so grateful I could finally see him with my own eyes and very close. It's a dream come true 

[marlingrl03]

You are very lucky....my seat was too far to see his beautiful face. I am hoping next time I get a better seat!

[Crazedlioness]

The only thing I respect Goldstein for is at least admitting to the fact that he fucked up in the 90s. Not that it matters as in a way he helped break the band apart as he says himself. At least he realises that though. But the part that he says about axl not realising how much the band hated him. They hated him because he wouldn't communicate with them and they didn't understand the meaning behind his actions, because Doug kept him so sheltered, but imagine if he'd just let them communicate instead of saving his own ass and trying to get money for the band. That's ultimately what he was doing. I think slash and duff know now or at least have a better understanding that axl wasn't so bad back then he was just disconnected and misunderstood by them and everyone else because of people like Doug. Even if Doug did it to please axl, it hurt axl in the long run. I think that's kind of the same with TB. I don't think they mean ill, I think they just try to keep axl happy in the short term even if ends up being worse for him in the long run

[The Garden of Guns N Roses]

What is the name of Doug Goldstein's book ?

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, The Garden of Guns N Roses said:

What is the name of Doug Goldstein's book ?

He hasn't written a book. He's interviewed in Mick Wall's new book, where the excerpts I and @MillionsOfSpiders posted are from. There's a thread about the book in the Discussion and News section.

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, marlingrl03 said:

You are very lucky....my seat was too far to see his beautiful face. I am hoping next time I get a better seat!

Don't get a seat!!

In order to see him close as I did you gotta be there in the pit, otherwise, no close-up for you!

[killuridols]

Cute Slash wishing Happy Birthday to his step-daughter Scarlett

 

[Andy14]

I took this from the reunion picture thread 

 

[dgnr]

2 hours ago, marlingrl03 said:

 

I'm sooo in love with this pic! It has such a vibe of the old times  

27 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

I took this from the reunion picture thread 

 

You can tell he's so, so happy! Warms my heart to see him like this  And the guy bellow is also so happy. My heart can't take it!
 

-------
Off topic: Also thank you all that wished me happy birthday after my first thank you message! It means a lot 

[marlingrl03]

Happy belated bday @dgnr !!! Hope it was super!  and yeah I agree with you about the pics. Despite the rain in CR, you could tell all the guys were having a blast. I LOVE seeing those smiles. 

[SerenityScorp]

Quote

What about the relationship between Slash and Axl?

There wasn't one

Really? 

[Ubukitty]

On 11/26/2016 at 7:07 PM, SerenityScorp said:

So Slash teach Axl to lie for tht interview 

Huh? Meegan still follows Them? Cause I didnt see Her lately, I thought She returned from the tour just like Susan

Not positive but thought I saw a pic of her. I'll see if I can dig it up.

[cheesecake]

12 hours ago, killuridols said:

Please please please!!! 

Can some English native speaker tell me what Axl is saying in the background of this video?

It's fucking amazing!!

 

For a moment there before clicking it I thought AXL was doing the crow pose and I was about died there lol coz that pose is certainly not easy. Props to the guy for doing the pose and walking handstand. 

Okay what a shocker on not being able to upload pictures. Well for some extra work...maybe we can download certain pictures and upload them onto some picture sites (the likes of flickr or photobucket or tumblr or whatever) and use links from those, in avoiding possibilities of the original links or sites being broken or taken down in the future.

 

[Tori72]

About the relationship between Axl and Slash? There wasn't one? I doubt that, because in the beginning, there defenetly was one. They crashed together at the same place, Axl lived with him for a while. And we can tell from the interaction (Slaxl) onstage. Later, also while preparing UYI, they both admitted they saw each other less and only talked on the phone. But so was the rest of the band.

I think the real falling apart began, when Axl became more and more reclusive even when they were together on the road etc. This is when Slash turned more to Duff.

But it does give me to think, what their relationship is today. If there wasn't a relationship in the end, it might only be friendly business-like today.

And the thing about Axl not being able to show affection. Well that is a given fact: children who have never been shown love and affection and how to communicate it, will likely never lern this later on. Poor Axl.

[cheesecake]

8 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

 

And the thing about Axl not being able to show affection. Well that is a given fact: children who have never been shown love and affection and how to communicate it, will likely never lern this later on. Poor Axl.

Well... he did reveal his affection toward Beta. In public. Multiple times.

[Tori72]

13 minutes ago, cheesecake said:

Well... he did reveal his affection toward Beta. In public. Multiple times.

True. Good for him, really.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

1 hour ago, cheesecake said:

Well... he did reveal his affection toward Beta. In public. Multiple times.

Couldnt that also be perceived as a grand gesture as @Lumikki described he does too?