Len Cnut Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) On 16 June 2016 at 0:47 PM, J Dog said: As bad and boring as most modern rock and modern rap is these days, it makes sense that Radiohead, the Strokes, and Kanye are in the top five. Exactly. People seem to forget, The Beatles, The Stones, we're talking half a century ago and if you're gonna approach lists like this is a convoluted fashion well then fuck you all, Robert Johnson should be top of the list...but thats just not being realistic, is it? Although I'd probably drop Kanye a little on the list but the broader point you're making is accurate, do you hear Love Me Do in songs today, do you hear Satisfaction, do you hear My Generation? Shit, you don't even hear Welcome to the Jungle. Personally, to me, Radiohead and The Strokes ain't shit but they're far more influential to what passes as rock today than Elvis is, even if I personally think Elvis is the fucking cats whiskers (and he is). Edited June 19, 2016 by Len B'stard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) On 19/06/2016 at 11:07 PM, Len B'stard said: Exactly. People seem to forget, The Beatles, The Stones, we're talking half a century ago and if you're gonna approach lists like this is a convoluted fashion well then fuck you all, Robert Johnson should be top of the list...but thats just not being realistic, is it? Although I'd probably drop Kanye a little on the list but the broader point you're making is accurate, do you hear Love Me Do in songs today, do you hear Satisfaction, do you hear My Generation? Shit, you don't even hear Welcome to the Jungle. Personally, to me, Radiohead and The Strokes ain't shit but they're far more influential to what passes as rock today than Elvis is, even if I personally think Elvis is the fucking cats whiskers (and he is). But then you have the argument about evolution... without Satisfaction there would be no Welcome To The Jungle, without James Brown there would be no Prince/MJ, without Prince/MJ the whole landscape of todays popular music scene would be very different. I still fail to see who Radiohead have influenced to that extent (because they haven't). Even if you're talking exclusively about todays music scene, every other month there is a massive hit that borrows heavily from Prince/MJ. Whether it's a blatant pastiche like Uptown Funk, or a sampled dance hit like Somebody's Watching Me or a cover version like Alicia Key's take on How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore or Alien Ant Farms Smooth Criminal or Chris Cornell's version of Billie Jean, it's fucking everywhere. When was the last time you heard a song on the radio and thought "oh, that's so Radiohead?". I'm sorry, it's the fucking hipster brigade out in full force, full of shit as per usual. Edited June 21, 2016 by Towelie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 NME is nothing but an indie loving jizz rag. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Broue Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) On 2016. 06. 15. at 2:06 PM, Len B'stard said: Or a major music publication with a certain degree of authority made a shitty list and published it. lol Nobody takes NME seriously since the 80's This list is more than an updated "best of" list than a "who is more influential" list, though Edited June 21, 2016 by Strange Broue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 26 minutes ago, Strange Broue said: lol Nobody takes NME seriously since the 80's This list is more than an updated "best of" list than a "who is more influential" list, though They're still an authority though, they're a music paper, whether you or i agree with the idea or wish to contest is is immatierial, personally i think it was a rag from day one but they are an authority, in the literal sense of what that word means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toroymoi Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 8 hours ago, Towelie said: Alicia Key's take on How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore or Alien Ant Farms Smooth Criminal or Chris Cornell's version of Billie Jean, it's fucking everywhere. Those songs are old af, so I don't know what you're trying to prove by using them. If you wanted to make a list of 'influencers' and then say "well, they were influenced by this even older group/artist" you'd never see the list change, that's boring. A lot of the people on this list were able to take the music they were inspired by and add their own mark on to it, which you can see in artists around in the most recent era of music (2010-onwards). I'm sure you would be overjoyed at another generic list with the Beatles and Elvis reigning supreme, but that's played out and tiresome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 On 21/06/2016 at 4:16 PM, toroymoi said: Those songs are old af, so I don't know what you're trying to prove by using them. If you wanted to make a list of 'influencers' and then say "well, they were influenced by this even older group/artist" you'd never see the list change, that's boring. A lot of the people on this list were able to take the music they were inspired by and add their own mark on to it, which you can see in artists around in the most recent era of music (2010-onwards). I'm sure you would be overjoyed at another generic list with the Beatles and Elvis reigning supreme, but that's played out and tiresome. Okay, well take todays most popular and biggest selling popstars... Beyoncé, Timberlake, Bruno Mars, Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga... they all cite MJ and Prince as two of their main influences, and you can see it in their stage costumes, their music, their videos, their choreography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 On 21 June 2016 at 8:07 AM, Towelie said: Even if you're talking exclusively about todays music scene, every other month there is a massive hit that borrows heavily from Prince/MJ. Whether it's a blatant pastiche like Uptown Funk, or a sampled dance hit like Somebody's Watching Me or a cover version like Alicia Key's take on How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore or Alien Ant Farms Smooth Criminal or Chris Cornell's version of Billie Jean, it's fucking everywhere. No wonder music so shite nowadays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverburst80 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Black Sabbath basically created a genre maybe even two, would think their "influence" would be a little higher on the list. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Silverburst80 said: Black Sabbath basically created a genre maybe even two, would think their "influence" would be a little higher on the list. A still thriving genre at that, as much as i think they and it are shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverburst80 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, Len B'stard said: A still thriving genre at that, as much as i think they and it are shite. Ha well i can't agree with you on that but yeah, Sabbath have a hand in creating Metal, Doom/Sludge/Stoner (that's actually 4 i sold them short)and obviously while not creating it have their hard rock chops as well. Let's not forget how heavily they influenced Grunge as well, their sound is all over AIC and Soundgarden's early stuff and Cobain is qouted as saying he wanted Nevermind to sound like them.I mean for ffs Bikini Kill?, yeah every kid slinging a guitar over their shoulder cites Bikini Kill an influence...pfft. Edited June 23, 2016 by Silverburst80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I love Bikini Kill but your point is no less valid. I've liked them since their early days and they are really quite obscure, even now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverburst80 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Len B'stard said: I love Bikini Kill but your point is no less valid. I've liked them since their early days and they are really quite obscure, even now. I don't mind them i guess i could have picked out 10 bands on that list that Sabbath absolutely destroy in terms of influence, they should really be top 10-15 on any list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said: I don't mind them i guess i could have picked out 10 bands on that list that Sabbath absolutely destroy in terms of influence, they should really be top 10-15 on any list. To add to your early point about the influence, to be fair, Sabbaths influence on punk is not to be ignored either. Black Flag were quite Sabbath influenced, Captain Sensible remarked upon hearing Anarchy in the UK by my beloved Sex Pistols that it 'sounded like Old Man Steptoe wailing over a dodgy Black Sabbath riff' . Not sure I agree with that appraisal entirely but point being, broadly speaking, there was an influence there over certain aspects of punk, musically. I always felt like Sabbath were a band trying to play the sort of heavy handed blues of a band like Cream and, not being as musically profficient as them, coming up with a sort of haphazard approximation that filled a massive gap in popular music. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverburst80 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The other one that really puzzles me is Kanye West at 3. And again what's good and what's not is a matter of opinion but what has/did he ever do that had influence in hip hop?. As a producer he did some good shit in his early days but even then it wasn't anything groundbreaking. I never heard anything there that hadn't been done before and if anything he seems to latch onto what's popping at the time, was heavily influenced by east coast ( did alot of that "chimpmunking" shit RZA used to do), had a auto tune period which was done before him etc....i can see a grime album next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 50 minutes ago, Silverburst80 said: The other one that really puzzles me is Kanye West at 3. And again what's good and what's not is a matter of opinion but what has/did he ever do that had influence in hip hop?. As a producer he did some good shit in his early days but even then it wasn't anything groundbreaking. I never heard anything there that hadn't been done before and if anything he seems to latch onto what's popping at the time, was heavily influenced by east coast ( did alot of that "chimpmunking" shit RZA used to do), had a auto tune period which was done before him etc....i can see a grime album next. I guess i can kinda see that, that awful tinny electro sound pervades hip hop now. But yeah, he ripped off The Abbott greatly and not just in regard to the chipmunking thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverburst80 Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Len B'stard said: I guess i can kinda see that, that awful tinny electro sound pervades hip hop now. But yeah, he ripped off The Abbott greatly and not just in regard to the chipmunking thing. Oh yeah he totally ripped off RZA, i'm pretty sure he's admitted it to be fair to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted June 24, 2016 Author Share Posted June 24, 2016 20 hours ago, Len B'stard said: No wonder music so shite nowadays Suck it, Len. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Towelie said: Suck it, Len. Ironic that you should have a grinning picture of a wide eyed Prince under the words 'suck it' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted June 24, 2016 Author Share Posted June 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, Len B'stard said: Ironic that you should have a grinning picture of a wide eyed Prince under the words 'suck it' Least it ain't a wide eyed MJ!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, Towelie said: Least it ain't a wide eyed MJ!!!! To be fair I'd've probably taken a finger up the arse for a fortnight at Neverland Ranch . Think about it, chance to hang around a Motown legend at a free amusement park, free Jesus juice compliments of the house, i dont see what they was moaning about personally . Edited June 24, 2016 by Len B'stard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toroymoi Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 On 6/22/2016 at 5:51 PM, Towelie said: Okay, well take todays most popular and biggest selling popstars... Beyoncé, Timberlake, Bruno Mars, Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga... they all cite MJ and Prince as two of their main influences, and you can see it in their stage costumes, their music, their videos, their choreography. Justin Bieber is a product of Usher and Justin Timberlake's era of music, he may find MJ inspiring but his music is more reminiscent of those two (Usher for more obvious reasons). Lady Gaga is more a product of Britney and Christina's era. Beyoncé debuted in 1998, so I'm not gonna classify her as being of 'this' gen. Beyoncé and Timberlake are already at the stage where they've influenced the younger generation of artists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 How do you seperate the influence of Usher and Timberlake from MJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toroymoi Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 49 minutes ago, Len B'stard said: How do you seperate the influence of Usher and Timberlake from MJ? In JB's music? I don't really hear MJ in Justin's sound, I hear a watered-down version of Usher/JT who in turn were inspired by MJ. Like I said before, you could keep tracing it back to who was influenced by who, but then that'll just leave you with the same list over and over again. Justin's more recent music is also EDM-inspired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 23 hours ago, Len B'stard said: To be fair I'd've probably taken a finger up the arse for a fortnight at Neverland Ranch I know, right? I'd've taken it up the Harris for that, I'd've done a lot worse for a lot less when I was 12 years old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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