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John Kalodner thinks that GNR wont release a great album


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I'm sure Kalodner has a good ear for something that's gonna get radio play but that doesn't always translate into music with real staying power. 'Pump' was a decent album for its time and had some top forty songs on the radio but honestly it will never have the same cred as Rocks or Toys In The Attic.

I mean, imagine what Appetite would have sounded like if that guy got managed to get his mitts on it...:wacko:

Thankfully GnR had a master plan and knew wtf they were doing.

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Who cares for Kalodner, the guy that turned Aerosmith into a pussy band. 

The uglier, the filthier, the purest and oldchool-ish album they deliver, the best for the real fans. Couldnt careless for platina certificates and I think at this point neither does GNR, this is a band that dont need to prove anything to anyone but their real fans and the best way to do this is to keep it to their roots. 

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He's not wrong, but he's not right, either. 

Kalodner has made his name famously telling artists that 'they're wrong.'

He's all about polishing something to the point where it's so accessible that it has no edge. There would be nothing dynamic about a Guns album if he had authority.

But part of what he's saying is right; you should challenge the artist. Often times, it's the pulling in different directions, the creative tension, that produces remarkable results.

Personally, I think if GN'R manages to record and release a new album, that in itself would be a titanic miracle. Whether or not it would be something that would hold up to the legacy, would be incidental.

But yeah, no need to call John Kalodner for his opinion.

 

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3 hours ago, Gorthar said:

I'm sure Kalodner has a good ear for something that's gonna get radio play but that doesn't always translate into music with real staying power. 'Pump' was a decent album for its time and had some top forty songs on the radio but honestly it will never have the same cred as Rocks or Toys In The Attic.

 

Exactly, PUMP was a big success and I guess was ok at the time but didn't age well. It was the beginning of the transformation of Aerosmith into a pop rock bubblegum band.  Actually Permanent Vacation was the beginning of that but it was still a good album. There are a lot of people who never heard them until that era that dismiss them today as a generic pop rock band. 

It is a shame because Aerosmith from 1973 - 1987 we just a bad ass rock band. Bad ass.. In my opinion they didn't really release a bad song prior to Permanent Vacation. 

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I think people would buy any GNR record at this point just because of the reunion thing, so yeah it'd go platinum.

If the songs are good enough that's a whole other story, but it will definitely "hit the masses".

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On 6/17/2016 at 6:55 AM, dalsh327 said:

Kalodner's bitter that Zutaut got to sign GNR. 

Aerosmith had a great run and he believed in them, but their second wind ended at Get a Grip. 

that's because they canned the professional studio for a home studio.  Happened to Metallica too.  I say go back to The Plant.

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On 6/17/2016 at 11:57 AM, classicrawker said:

I think Kalodnar has a valid point.........Artists seem to be the last people to be subjective of their own work. There are plenty of cases where a band wanted to leave off a song which ended up being the hit of the album but were convinced by the producer o include it..........

That's not what he is saying though. He is saying is very hard to convince established rock stars that the songs aren't good enough and he is right in some instances but not all.

The opposite of what you said has happened as well where a band believed in a song and the record company and producer didn't and the song became a huge hit.

I think at the time Erzin told Axl the songs weren't good enough or ready he was being honest and he was probably right. That was long time ago. I'm sure a lot of the songs on CD were written after Erzin was fired. Between 1999-2008. Shame how he was fire over something so dumb and reactionary. He was just being honest and thats exactly what Kalonder is saying. His shitty record with Aerosmith is irrelevant. The comment could've came from any world renowned producer and it would still ring true.

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2 hours ago, Top-Hatted One said:

That's not what he is saying though. He is saying is very hard to convince established rock stars that the songs aren't good enough and he is right in some instances but not all.

The opposite of what you said has happened as well where a band believed in a song and the record company and producer didn't and the song became a huge hit.

I think at the time Erzin told Axl the songs weren't good enough or ready he was being honest and he was probably right. That was long time ago. I'm sure a lot of the songs on CD were written after Erzin was fired. Between 1999-2008. Shame how he was fire over something so dumb and reactionary. He was just being honest and thats exactly what Kalonder is saying. His shitty record with Aerosmith is irrelevant. The comment could've came from any world renowned producer and it would still ring true.

I completely agree with you  but I wasn't claiming that is what Kalodnar was saying as my  point was the artists are rarely subjective about their work whether good or bad so they really need someone like Kalodnar to tell it like it is. He was the one who convinced Aerosmith to bring in outside song writers for the 1980's comeback.


As an example Axl wanted November Rain on AFD but had to be convinced it did not fit....on the other side of the coin the members of Thin Lizzy thought "The Boys Are Back in Town" was an outtake and not good enough for the final cut of "Jailbreak" until producer John Alcock convinced them they had something in that song......to Kaloodnar's  point artists need an outside opinion in some cases......

 

 

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"It started off when Jimmy Iovine asked me for a big favor

They were stuck, they were stuck in a studio in North Hollywood for years with Roy Thomas Baker, and nothing was happening. They were paying enormous rental bills and they were paying people to sit around the studio waiting for Axl to show up and it was just a disaster. 

I agreed to go there immediately and listen to a bunch of stuff. What I heard was – I don’t know how to say this without be insulting, I don’t want to be insulting because he worked very hard on it – but what I heard was something that he had painted over too many times. So, by the time I heard it, the original content was lost and it was just a highly produced piece of something…" 

I agreed to help out if Axl would agree to work with me, which he did. He had the idea that the only person who could finish the album with him was me, based on what I don’t know. I came, I listened, I said to him I will listen and will give you notes we will see together. I spent a lot of time listening. I went to see Jimmy Iovine and I gave him my perception of the situation, including the fact that they had to get out of Rumbo Studios immediately – not because Rumbo is a bad studio, it’s a wonderful studio – but because they needed to be closer to the scrutiny of the record company and Jimmy’s team, so there could be at least some measure of control. And I recommended we move them to the Village Recorder in West Hollywood. So, they did that, and moved everybody there. 

I had to wait to talk to Axl because he avoided me. He was nervous about hearing what I had to say. We finally met, on a night when my wife – who was then my girlfriend – came down from Toronto to visit me and we were having a dinner with friends at my house. She was cooking when I got a phone call from Jimmy Iovine saying that I needed to come meet Axl and I said “I can’t tonight. I’m booked”. And Jimmy replied saying “ok” (laughs). No he didn’t. When he wants something, he really knows how to get it. Anyway, he basically guilt-tripped me and I told him “Ok, I will be there at 8pm and I will leave there at 8.30, whether Axl shows up or not”, because that was Axl. Because last time we had an appointment at 10pm and Axl showed up at 2 in the morning. “So tell Axl that’s it”. 

I went to the restaurant at 8 and a team of Axl supporters and hangers-on showed up and joined me at the table – and no Axl. Axl finally came about 8:25 (laughs). Anyway, I told him basically what you’ve heard. I didn’t tell him “you have 2 ½ songs” and when he sat down, he started saying me that he has finished the record. And I said “Axl, we are not ready to mix this record. This record isn’t ready to be mixed”. 

I said “there are two great songs on it and I know that you’re capable of more, that’s the reason why I’m here. You’re such a great talent and I would do you a disservice if I didn’t tell you the truth, which is that most of the songs aren’t great. But I‘m very happy to help you get there and I believe that it’s possible, if you would like to continue to work on the record, to make it better”. 

He said “I don’t agree with that. We are ready to mix”. And I told him “you have my number, if you change your mind let me know, but I have a dinner party at home now and I had to go”. 

I left and I haven’t heard from him since. It was years later when it came out."
 

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If Axl, slash, Duff, and Izzy all went into studio and started from scratch, with new material, I have no doubt it would be a good album. If they go into the studio trying to polish Axl's turds, it will suck big time, and tarnish their legacy even more.

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10 minutes ago, SWINGTRADER said:

If Axl, slash, Duff, and Izzy all went into studio and started from scratch, with new material, I have no doubt it would be a good album. If they go into the studio trying to polish Axl's turds, it will suck big time, and tarnish their legacy even more.

I agree if they write together it should be at least decent. Izzy stated in a 2001/02  interview with Mick Wall that they could write a Guns album in  week............

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I'm not even going to read the guys opinion because everyone has them. Everyone's style is different just as many GnR fans have different tastes.

Many forget Axl's songs have been some of the most popular GnR songs. 

I appreciate what every member brings and the style they add to the music. Some still want to sit and act like Axl should be lucky if the guys want to work on his "crappy" songs. That's  just weird to me when we all are aware of Axl's writing capabilities. Some just seem to dismiss it more then others just as many don't credit the chemistry between them all as well.

I think any music released by them will sale very well and I look forward to it.

 

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There should some sort of relevancy requirement when we post what they think.  "Breaking News: Jim from East Windsor New Jersey thinks next album will be a Target exclusive!" 

 

Relevancy, and not giving two halves of a shit about John Kalodner and/or his thoughts aside, the TOPIC he is speaking on (unlike John Kalodner's opinion) is relevant.  I've said several times, there will never be another UYI or AFD, not because a producer is a yes man, but because this is going to be an album of compromises.   Take Estranged as an example.  Both Axl and Slash were pretty open about how Axl was a pain in the ass and kept making Slash do different parts of the song until it was perfect.  Those days are over.  After 2 decades of being his own boss, Slash is not going to be told "Try harder, do it again."  If there is an album, and it is a huge IF, it will be more like CD than UYI in the sense that it will be a hodge podge of material from different artists:  Axl song's, Slash songs, Duff songs etc.  

 

They are not a band anymore, it's great that they will play together and we get to see the reunion, but these are individuals, not a band.  There is no "us" for GnR anymore.  They are accomplished musicians sharing a stage, an all star lineup, but not a band.   Slash hated the process of making Estranged and he is now in a position where he doesn't have to do something he hates ever again. (Let's not lose my point in semantics, maybe he didn't "hate" it, but, the bottom line was it was a huge pain in the ass and Slash kept doing what he thought was fine work only for Axl to tell him it wasn't good enough.)  Nobody has told Slash "It's not good enough." in nearly 20 years.  He wont magically be open to hearing that all of a sudden. He is either going to say "Yeah, it is." Or he will say "Then call fucking Paul and have him do it." and walk away.  Will Slash give something more than one try?  Sure.  The days of tinkering "until it is done." are gone.

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On 20/06/2016 at 3:37 AM, DeadSlash said:

There should some sort of relevancy requirement when we post what they think.  "Breaking News: Jim from East Windsor New Jersey thinks next album will be a Target exclusive!" 

 

Relevancy, and not giving two halves of a shit about John Kalodner and/or his thoughts aside, the TOPIC he is speaking on (unlike John Kalodner's opinion) is relevant.  I've said several times, there will never be another UYI or AFD, not because a producer is a yes man, but because this is going to be an album of compromises.   Take Estranged as an example.  Both Axl and Slash were pretty open about how Axl was a pain in the ass and kept making Slash do different parts of the song until it was perfect.  Those days are over.  After 2 decades of being his own boss, Slash is not going to be told "Try harder, do it again."  If there is an album, and it is a huge IF, it will be more like CD than UYI in the sense that it will be a hodge podge of material from different artists:  Axl song's, Slash songs, Duff songs etc.  

 

They are not a band anymore, it's great that they will play together and we get to see the reunion, but these are individuals, not a band.  There is no "us" for GnR anymore.  They are accomplished musicians sharing a stage, an all star lineup, but not a band.   Slash hated the process of making Estranged and he is now in a position where he doesn't have to do something he hates ever again. (Let's not lose my point in semantics, maybe he didn't "hate" it, but, the bottom line was it was a huge pain in the ass and Slash kept doing what he thought was fine work only for Axl to tell him it wasn't good enough.)  Nobody has told Slash "It's not good enough." in nearly 20 years.  He wont magically be open to hearing that all of a sudden. He is either going to say "Yeah, it is." Or he will say "Then call fucking Paul and have him do it." and walk away.  Will Slash give something more than one try?  Sure.  The days of tinkering "until it is done." are gone.

Nah, we've been surprised so far, I think we'll be surprised again. If Axl is willing to take direction from Angus Young and possibly record with him and Slash is willing to play Chinese Democracy material (voluntarily according to Axl) then I truly think that there'll be no problems and they'll be inspired by each other and be super creative.

They all want the same thing and tbh, I don't see artistic direction even being a slight issue.

I think everybody is grown up enough at this point to be able to take criticism and use it.

If not, then they should record the entire process and release their own Some Kind of Monster documentary. Full on Axl vs. Slash with Duff as the referee haha.

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Just now, wasted said:

So similar production to CD? 

Absolutely not. Slash and Duff will have a huge influence and say in the matter. I just think it'll ultimately be Axl who produces and Caram who engineers and co-produces up to a point.

It may sound as polished as Chinese though.

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On 6/17/2016 at 2:01 PM, Sprite said:

That just seems crazy to say a reunited Guns album wouldn't go platinum. At the risk of this old debate, didn't CD even go 2X-3X platinum? 

Yeah music has changed but there is still a huge fan base for older rock music. The media just doesn't represent it anymore because media represents youth which largely listens to pop music.

They would definitely sell one million plus records easy. How many people have been to their concerts recently? All of them will buy the album. That's at least a gold record right there. 

Also, I don't see how anyone can say "this guy sucks" when he has produced an endless  amount of big hits.

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On 6/17/2016 at 2:01 PM, Sprite said:

That just seems crazy to say a reunited Guns album wouldn't go platinum. At the risk of this old debate, didn't CD even go 2X-3X platinum? 

Yeah music has changed but there is still a huge fan base for older rock music. The media just doesn't represent it anymore because media represents youth which largely listens to pop music.

Zero chance a new Guns record with current lineup doesn't go platinum.  This guy's opinion is absolutely nonsensical and worthless.

 

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2 hours ago, AlexC said:

Absolutely not. Slash and Duff will have a huge influence and say in the matter. I just think it'll ultimately be Axl who produces and Caram who engineers and co-produces up to a point.

It may sound as polished as Chinese though.

It's really the guitar tone that gives the record it's sound I guess. 

Wonder if a Produced by Guns N Roses might work. 

I think Clink would be a good option. 

I guess Rock or Bust sold 200k. So platinum in the US might be difficult. But the Reunion element might help, especially if it's awesome. 

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I don't give a shit about sales.

All I want is a real GNR record entirely written by Axl, Slash and Duff (if Izzy joined it would be the best thing ever) with some help from other people maybe and I don't want it produced by some shitty commercial producer like this Kalodner dude.

Let's not forget these guys wrote Appetite by themselve. They didn't need this idiot to tell them what works and what doesn't and they don't need him now either.

In a perfect world they'd bring Mike Clink back. He didn't fuck with the songs back in the day and he helped them capture their sound in the studio. Appetite For Destruction is the closest thing to perfection this world has ever witnessed.

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As I remember they did get a lot of help from label with AFD. They were told early mixes were too radio. Getting SCOM written before going into the studio was label prerequisite. 

Then David Geffen begged MTV to play Jungle. 

There's some sort of difference between what loyal GNR fans want and what will sell in a broader market. I think the reunion is of interest to the mainstream so AFD/UYI type record pleases everyone really at this point. 

The danger is they do something too modern and miss what people want in the broader market. 

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I'd want Axl, Costanzo, and Clink to produce. Huge Illusions production but more modern. They can find a balance between whatever Contraband tried to achieve and Queen production. Modern, but with no complaints. And someone who knows how Slash supposed to sound like.

The guy who produced By The Sword and Slash and Friend. That had a Guns sound.

But I kinda don't want to go back now after Chinese. I like it just fine.

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