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John Kalodner thinks that GNR wont release a great album


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On 28/11/2016 at 7:14 AM, downzy said:

Would we expect greatness from an athlete 25 years past their prime? 

I've always believed artists are like athletes in that they have their peak performance years followed by years of diminished returns.  There are exceptions of course (Dylan's "Make You Feel My Love" being the best example), but not many.  Even Dylan admits he can no longer do what he once did.  He can do something different, but whatever it was that inspired his classic material is no longer with him. 

I think anyone expecting more iconic music from Axl/Slash/Duff should check their expectations.  I think they're all capable of releasing good to great music, but I'm not a firm believer that any artist, 25 years out from their prime creative years, is capable of taping into whatever it was that they tapped into all those years ago.  

I've always thought that musicians has a certain number of great songs within them.  Some have only one, others have many.  But there comes a time when the can runs dry.  

True we have a singer here in Denmark, Kim Larsen, he made some of the best songs in the 70s and 80s, atleast for the danish people, but the last 20 years no good songs sadly, but once he made the best songs. So yes there is a time and a place for it all.

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58 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Let's just jump to 2016 and state that if GN'R doesn't openly discuss and/or release a new album of material by December 31st, 2017, then they are worthy of shame and derision tenfold of the aborted New GN'R project. 

How convenient to organize shit like that. There is no deadline. Only when Axl wants to do it, the album is done, and he thinks it's the right time for a release.

Not even a release date was given for the next Guns album, only Axl saying it won't be soon. December 31st, 2017 is soon I think.

What if Axl releases it in 2018? or 2021? cause it just wasn't ready in 2017? Axl is still busy expanding his fortune with Guns on the road, and he is a known tinker. I expect it to take much longer than that, if at all.

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16 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

Axl has everything he lacked in the CD era: public support, press support, a horde of cash, and the talent and business acumen on Slash and Duff.

He also has 1-2 albums that were at or near completion several years ago that he's publicly expressed interest in releasing. Big Nose has mentioned 3 albums of material. 

This isn't like writing an album from scratch or facing a mountain of opposition. They have literally everything going for them. 

I'm not in the business of treating my favorite bands like deities. Time to get it done. 

 

 

Yes. Just get it done. But I'm not in the business of totally ignoring who we're dealing with here, what he said about it not being soon and why it won't be soon, despite having all of this material in his vault, and Slash n' Duff.

Axl said CD ll was done for quite some time now 2 years ago. It has been done at least when Chinese came out in 2008, probably done for 15 years now without Bumble's and Frank's work.

Perhaps you can look back and take into consideration a shitload of material doesn't mean Axl would release it. I think it's cause he won't release a dud Guns album. And not after CD's release with clean vocals and how that went over.

Or even more important, the high expectations from a comeback album of Axl, Slash, and Duff after 20 years.

It needs to have the tunes like Chinese did, quality material, but also way more Guns sounding with Slash and Duff. Axl probably still doesn't want any Guns release to be a rehash.

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17 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

They've been reunited for a year at this point.

I expect 50 year old professionals with everything going for them to behave differently than young kids. Stop enabling their disfunction with the "it's how it's been" handwaving. By that logic, we still shouldn't expect Axl onstage until 2 hours after the showtime. 

Bruce Springsteen and countless others have managed to create new albums from scratch whilst touring. Time for GNR to treat their full time jobs as such. One would hope Slash and Duff being back would cease with Axl's prima donna recording studio antics as well. 

At minimum, communicating their desire to release new music within 2017 is an extremely low bar that is entirely reasonable. 

 

 

 

No one is enabling shit man, you just refuse to acknowledge Axl is still Axl when it comes to releasing Guns albums.

He's not gonna be super prolific all of a sudden, releasing a Guns album every 2 years. Just not gonna happen.

You cling to facts like he's not late anymore, there are no riots. This shit is on the road. Very different to when he's in the studio, when we know Axl is the kind of musician that cares about his art and has trouble of letting go of it.

Everyone is a pro other than Axl in the studio, meaning Slash and Duff can easily write, record, and release a disposable album or something that won't actually be Gn'R like Slash wanted Snakepit to be, or with all their efforts what they came up with was Contraband, even with Izzy's help.

Do try to understand it doesn't magically happens. Someone needs to give a fuck about what musical direction it's gonna go and if it's right for a current Guns album.

You talk about getting it done, but Slash has his own way of doing it, short attention span so he can finish an album in 2 weeks and kinda said Elvis Baskette, his producer for WOF, pushed him hard when it came to doing more guitar solo takes, he joked that he 'wanted to kill him".

Illusions pushed forward in many ways, even when some of the tunes were from the Appetite era.

This is what this line up could do now: (kinda like wasted had suggested in the "new album this year" thread) use all those years Axl has worked on putting together AAA material, let Slash do what he does best, Duff too, and work on it until it's truly a great Guns album.

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2 hours ago, Wagszilla said:

You're being simple here, not that matters, because we're bitching about an album that has been released for 8 years and a band that hasn't existed for 14 years. 

If an album is turned in twice, any minimally competent, minimally reasonable businessman should realize it's not worth the additional cost to add a third coat of paint to the house.

Let's just jump to 2016 and state that if GN'R doesn't openly discuss and/or release a new album of material by December 31st, 2017, then they are worthy of shame and derision tenfold of the aborted New GN'R project. 

I do not believe that is what happened so your logic is lost on me I'm afraid.

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  • 2 months later...

     I think you are missing my main point, read the story of Estranged.  Slash did not have fun with it.  It was Axl simply tweaking and tweaking and making him change it and do it over.  Slash was the guitarist for GnR at the time UYI was being made, now he's a legend/icon and he can go in 2-3 directions immediately with no problem, Solo album, VR2.0, Miles Shittedy and the destroyers of good music.

 

     I'd love for you to be right, and I think Duff would do shit over and over, but Slash is an icon now, I can't see him not walking away after the 5 take that he thinks is perfect and Axl is like "nah, do it again."    Flip side: Factor in that Axl has grown up also, maybe he doesn't ask Slash to do it 100 times.  That's great, everyone is happier, except that doing it 100 times is what made it perfect.  I'll be pleasantly surprised to be wrong, but we'll get some duff songs, some slash songs and some axl songs.  If we are lucky, we get one or 2 GnR songs, tops.

jmhop, I really hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.  Money is in touring, not records, Slash has FU money and can find work anywhere.... 

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True, there's no money in a record compared to tour. It's like someone giving me 100k and then someone wants to buy me a drink. 

Also, I feel like they are going up against a great catalog, like legendary songs. They are getting credit for that now. To bring out a new record has "oh this isn't that good" potential. It changes the conversation. 

People down play it because we just want new songs. We like Think about you, Dead Horse, IRS etc. But there has to be some ego attached or pride to not have that "you aren't as good anymore" tag. The old stuff is better. 

Good news is they could have been percolating a new record since the late 90s. Axl has this thing where maybe he's ahead of the curve and has some songs he's been waiting to release with Slash. There's some hope in that. There also seems like a final chapter to the story of GNR story. Maybe the reunion tour is that for most people. 

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On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 0:33 PM, DieselDaisy said:

If you want to know why that horrible album was delayed, here is why,

Rather than blaming Ezrin, Baker, Iovine, the tea lady, (etc) why not blame the source of the problem: Axl Rose himself?

we haven't heard Axls version of this or his version of the demise of 1995-1996 Guns  the man who was notorious for airing his entire life for all to dissect pulled a 180 and allowed everyone else to crucify him for 20 years  he has a story to tell just don't know if he ever will  by the way the album isn't horrible and duff and  slash will back that

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8 minutes ago, Silent Jay said:

they won't release anything to begin with.

perhaps you are right. Its a different era. I don't see Axl conforming to the new school of releasing .99 singles through iTunes ect  he doesn't need to

 

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11 hours ago, wasted said:

True, there's no money in a record compared to tour. It's like someone giving me 100k and then someone wants to buy me a drink. 

Also, I feel like they are going up against a great catalog, like legendary songs. They are getting credit for that now. To bring out a new record has "oh this isn't that good" potential. It changes the conversation. 

People down play it because we just want new songs. We like Think about you, Dead Horse, IRS etc. But there has to be some ego attached or pride to not have that "you aren't as good anymore" tag. The old stuff is better. 

Good news is they could have been percolating a new record since the late 90s. Axl has this thing where maybe he's ahead of the curve and has some songs he's been waiting to release with Slash. There's some hope in that. There also seems like a final chapter to the story of GNR story. Maybe the reunion tour is that for most people. 

For the general fan in attendance I'd guess seeing them in person and enjoying the show is more than enough. Play to your audience. That's showmanship 101. So I think the strategy to ride this out is ideal. There is no rush and we are comfortable crusing.

Artistically I think there is still an itch. I think if this was purely about money or nostalgia, Axl probably wouldn't have made comments on looking into new music in the future at the china exchange.

When Eddie Money started appearing in all those commercials a few years ago you can see the way an older artist can go. He gave an interview with Forbes saying he'd take any county fair,geico commercial, cruise ship he can get and it's all about making money now because of past mistakes with finances.

i don't think Guns situation is exactly the same but the point is there. They could ride this out for complete nostalgia until the money train ends. And you could argue they are doing that now. But something tells me there is more to it. Guns were always original and real. That's the appeal of them. A diamond in the rough of the synthetic 80s music scene. There aren't any play books when you walk the precipice of reality.

2019-2020 is looking like the next chance.

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1 hour ago, agno said:

They know what is good and what is not. That's why we want the yes sayers so we get to listen to Guns n' Roses vision.

Yes and what could that vision be?

Is this nostalgia only? Is this a test the waters and wait and see where it goes type thing? 

How I see it is Axl and Slash, and Duff, represent one of the truly great dying art forms which I call traditional rock music. Aside from a few names, most of which are dead, you can't really point to the next in line "rock star" after Guns N' Roses. They are sort of it. Like the last of the beatnicks in the 50s.

So with that they are becoming the Stones of a generation. That band the older chick in the office likes and you wonder what she'd be like drunk at their concert. That's GNR on a mass scale appeal. It won't be long until Bieber is what people's parents listened to growing up. Nick Jagger can't do it forever. So with that impending moniker, how do they carry themselves moving forward? 

Short term vision they can ride this wave and part ways. It was fun. Hatchets were buried. Adler got to check something off his bucket list.  Axl got a permanent invite to angus's house for thanksgiving. But time to go back to what we were doing the past 20 years.

Long term vision they can ride this nostalgia out until they die. Just like the stones. No one expects great music we just like to see you can still move. Let's get 2 best of albums, a live album, Super Bowl, rinse and repeat every 7 years until death. Any art they release can go solo.

But guns are a statement band. So I see it as a mix. They want one last impact. I'm not talking sales or anything like that as music is a toally different animal. I'm saying these guys want to go out with one last bang. Like the real fucking musicians they are.Then they can crash and burn. There is no other way with Guns. You are going to get the beauty and the ugliness. It's the balance they've always kept, even their name plays with this imagery. Guns N Roses. 

Im thinking one last double album of everything they've wanted to stick the GNR name on. Compromises and rerecordings are ok. It's likeTheir second attempt at the white album as Slash once referred to the uyi albums as. Or going over everything with an even finer toothed comb. Who has done it like that? No one and that is basically their legacy. The band that was out of time and place, the band that was ugly, drunk and fucked up. But damn whenever they made music people listen. I hope there is more to what I'm saying then this just being a way to kill some time at work

 

 

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11 hours ago, Sprite said:

For the general fan in attendance I'd guess seeing them in person and enjoying the show is more than enough. Play to your audience. That's showmanship 101. So I think the strategy to ride this out is ideal. There is no rush and we are comfortable crusing.

Artistically I think there is still an itch. I think if this was purely about money or nostalgia, Axl probably wouldn't have made comments on looking into new music in the future at the china exchange.

When Eddie Money started appearing in all those commercials a few years ago you can see the way an older artist can go. He gave an interview with Forbes saying he'd take any county fair,geico commercial, cruise ship he can get and it's all about making money now because of past mistakes with finances.

i don't think Guns situation is exactly the same but the point is there. They could ride this out for complete nostalgia until the money train ends. And you could argue they are doing that now. But something tells me there is more to it. Guns were always original and real. That's the appeal of them. A diamond in the rough of the synthetic 80s music scene. There aren't any play books when you walk the precipice of reality.

2019-2020 is looking like the next chance.

I don't think the reunion tour is based solely on money. It's about ending the feud, clearing the air and maybe putting GNR in better light. Everyone is going to see different degrees of positivity in it. The reunion tour is at the very least a big celebration of GNR, the fans deserve it through everything.  They can deliver this for the fans. 

But a record is more tricky. Axl the mercurial artist, Izzy the tunesmith gone awol. To me if they are going to make a record, Izzy has to be in the studio in some capacity. He has said Axl has 4 of his songs. Fortus starts talking about old Slash material recently. Axl wants to write and record like AFD again. I feel like it will be if Axl can write lyrics that work for a reunion record. Or self titled record. What's it going to be about? 

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4 hours ago, wasted said:

I don't think the reunion tour is based solely on money. It's about ending the feud, clearing the air and maybe putting GNR in better light. Everyone is going to see different degrees of positivity in it. The reunion tour is at the very least a big celebration of GNR, the fans deserve it through everything.  They can deliver this for the fans. 

But a record is more tricky. Axl the mercurial artist, Izzy the tunesmith gone awol. To me if they are going to make a record, Izzy has to be in the studio in some capacity. He has said Axl has 4 of his songs. Fortus starts talking about old Slash material recently. Axl wants to write and record like AFD again. I feel like it will be if Axl can write lyrics that work for a reunion record. Or self titled record. What's it going to be about? 

I think the subject matter/lyrics is the main issue. But maybe Axl is aware and the way to discover that is to write new lyrics. I feel like I can't say for sure Axl has nothing more to say in Guns artistically just cause Slash is back. Even if I can't really think of something. But it's not impossible.

As for Izzy, old Guns were lost without him after Illusions trying to write the next Gn'R album. But it depends what type of album they want to make. If it's more reunion old school it might be more challenging but you kinda don't know what you can do until you do it in the studio. If it's there, it's supposed to reveal itself, but maybe there is nothing new for Guns to say anymore and that time has passed. But Fortus is supposed to play some kind of a role on paper. Technically he should fill the void Izzy left. He's playing the Shuffle It All riff on youtube. I think he's trying  to get into character.

Why do you think Izzy must be in the studio in some capacity? He said Axl has 4 of his tunes? I don't remember but it's possible. Only read he gave Axl Down By The Ocean.

 

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3 hours ago, Rovim said:

I think the subject matter/lyrics is the main issue. But maybe Axl is aware and the way to discover that is to write new lyrics. I feel like I can't say for sure Axl has nothing more to say in Guns artistically just cause Slash is back. Even if I can't really think of something. But it's not impossible.

As for Izzy, old Guns were lost without him after Illusions trying to write the next Gn'R album. But it depends what type of album they want to make. If it's more reunion old school it might be more challenging but you kinda don't know what you can do until you do it in the studio. If it's there, it's supposed to reveal itself, but maybe there is nothing new to Guns to say anymore and that time has passed. But Fortus is supposed to play some kind of a role on paper. Technically he should fill the void Izzy left. He's playing the Shuffle It All riff on youtube. I think he's trying  to get into character.

Why do you think Izzy must be in the studio in some capacity? He said Axl has 4 of his tunes? I don't remember but it's possible. Only read he gave Axl Down By The Ocean.

 

Izzy's quote around the time was Axl wanted me to send him 4 of my songs, he never found out what happened to them. Axl confirmed Down by the Ocean as a real title years later in 09?

I just feel to get the spirit of the reunion right Izzy has to contribute something. Maybe it doesn't matter as much live. But a record of old Guns music with no Izzy? 

But maybe it's not a nostalgia reunion record. It's just the next album, something already in progress and Slash and Duff are going to help Axl finish it. Same hybrid as the tour. 

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1 hour ago, wasted said:

Izzy's quote around the time was Axl wanted me to send him 4 of my songs, he never found out what happened to them. Axl confirmed Down by the Ocean as a real title years later in 09?

I just feel to get the spirit of the reunion right Izzy has to contribute something. Maybe it doesn't matter as much live. But a record of old Guns music with no Izzy? 

But maybe it's not a nostalgia reunion record. It's just the next album, something already in progress and Slash and Duff are going to help Axl finish it. Same hybrid as the tour. 

I think Guns is still as much as a musical vehicle for Axl as it was before Slash and Duff rejoined the band.

Getting a strong nostalgia vibe from the tour with no new music and Slash back is expected, but there is no way of knowing if it's just exclusive to the live shows and if it truly reflects Axl's current musical vision.

Seems like he makes a distinction between the tours and studio material. My guess is he doesn't think he needs Izzy to make a Guns album. He made an album without Slash, he can see this line up as true Guns.

If Izzy is not crucial to Axl than maybe that can indicate it's still new Guns. Newest incarnation of new Guns happens to feature old Guns members.

It doesn't have to be all the old Guns elements in there cause it could be a hybrid type of album with some elements missing (Izzy) it still functions as a Guns album but the success of it relies on Axl coming up with new lyrics that give the album a theme that works in a Guns context, 3 or 4 tunes for example with old material from 1996 and Chinese era stuff filling in the blanks.

They tried to make another Guns album without Izzy before and failed. Axl thought Paul should replace Izzy. Paul ended up being a major part of Chinese.

It's possible they can work as a team with a steady line up and musically I don't think the goal should even be a back to anything type of album but more to work with what they have to make it mostly closer in sound to old Guns but with Axl using new lyrics/ tunes and old Chinese material as a way to make it not stale and a repetition.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think Guns is still as much as a musical vehicle for Axl as it was before Slash and Duff rejoined the band.

Getting a strong nostalgia vibe from the tour with no new music and Slash back is expected, but there is no way of knowing if it's just exclusive to the live shows and if it truly reflects Axl's current musical vision.

Seems like he makes a distinction between the tours and studio material. My guess is he doesn't think he needs Izzy to make a Guns album. He made an album without Slash, he can see this line up as true Guns.

If Izzy is not crucial to Axl than maybe that can indicate it's still new Guns. Newest incarnation of new Guns happens to feature old Guns members.

It doesn't have to be all the old Guns elements in there cause it could be a hybrid type of album with some elements missing (Izzy) it still functions as a Guns album but the success of it relies on Axl coming up with new lyrics that give the album a theme that works in a Guns context, 3 or 4 tunes for example with old material from 1996 and Chinese era stuff filling in the blanks.

They tried to make another Guns without him before and failed. Axl thought Paul should replace Izzy. Paul ended up being a major part of Chinese.

It's possible they can work as a team with a steady line up and musically I don't think the goal should even be a back to anything type of album but more to work with what they have to make it mostly closer in sound to old Guns but with Axl using new lyrics/ tunes and old Chinese material as a way to make it not stale and a repetition.

 

 

Maybe just guiding GNR back to it's hard rock sound, more than trying to recreate AFD or UYI. 

So it's more like Slash working on Axl's material like UYI. But then with Slash his best stuff was writing like AFD style. 

I expect a dark noodly classic rock album. Almost like updated Deep Purple. 

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12 hours ago, Sprite said:

Yes and what could that vision be?

Is this nostalgia only? Is this a test the waters and wait and see where it goes type thing? 

How I see it is Axl and Slash, and Duff, represent one of the truly great dying art forms which I call traditional rock music. Aside from a few names, most of which are dead, you can't really point to the next in line "rock star" after Guns N' Roses. They are sort of it. Like the last of the beatnicks in the 50s.

So with that they are becoming the Stones of a generation. That band the older chick in the office likes and you wonder what she'd be like drunk at their concert. That's GNR on a mass scale appeal. It won't be long until Bieber is what people's parents listened to growing up. Nick Jagger can't do it forever. So with that impending moniker, how do they carry themselves moving forward? 

Short term vision they can ride this wave and part ways. It was fun. Hatchets were buried. Adler got to check something off his bucket list.  Axl got a permanent invite to angus's house for thanksgiving. But time to go back to what we were doing the past 20 years.

Long term vision they can ride this nostalgia out until they die. Just like the stones. No one expects great music we just like to see you can still move. Let's get 2 best of albums, a live album, Super Bowl, rinse and repeat every 7 years until death. Any art they release can go solo.

But guns are a statement band. So I see it as a mix. They want one last impact. I'm not talking sales or anything like that as music is a toally different animal. I'm saying these guys want to go out with one last bang. Like the real fucking musicians they are.Then they can crash and burn. There is no other way with Guns. You are going to get the beauty and the ugliness. It's the balance they've always kept, even their name plays with this imagery. Guns N Roses. 

Im thinking one last double album of everything they've wanted to stick the GNR name on. Compromises and rerecordings are ok. It's likeTheir second attempt at the white album as Slash once referred to the uyi albums as. Or going over everything with an even finer toothed comb. Who has done it like that? No one and that is basically their legacy. The band that was out of time and place, the band that was ugly, drunk and fucked up. But damn whenever they made music people listen. I hope there is more to what I'm saying then this just being a way to kill some time at work

 

 

In my opinion that art form is very alive and new bands are showing up all the time, at least here in sweden. But the bands will not get as big and famous as before so you gotta know where to look.

The next really big thing in this genre is not something you can point at because they will explode before we know it. And they will probably be something unique and not sound like Guns n roses. 

Who is Nick Jagger is that Mick Jaggers brother?  ???

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I've come to realize that any Guns N' Roses material with only Slash and Duff is illusory, but not only that, it will suck ass. I think they've come to realize that, that lineup Melissa, Richard, Frank and co. is terrible. There's not much chemistry left, you can't really change the past with that band and Axl won't release another Chinese Democracy with them anymore. So with that in mind, yes they will not release a new album but if they do ('95 stuff) it will suck ass. It's not like Slash and Axl are magically becoming friends again, they're not hanging with each other as far as I'm concerned.

On the other hand, Axl seems to have found his musical muse, his Randy Rhoads, which seems to be living legend Angus Young. We've already seen there's an amazing chemistry between the two, certainly one of the greatest new duo in rock of the 21st century. I have no doubt you're going to crap your pants listening to the new AC/DC album with Axl next year.

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10 hours ago, wasted said:

I don't think the reunion tour is based solely on money. It's about ending the feud, clearing the air and maybe putting GNR in better light. Everyone is going to see different degrees of positivity in it. The reunion tour is at the very least a big celebration of GNR, the fans deserve it through everything.  They can deliver this for the fans. 

But a record is more tricky. Axl the mercurial artist, Izzy the tunesmith gone awol. To me if they are going to make a record, Izzy has to be in the studio in some capacity. He has said Axl has 4 of his songs. Fortus starts talking about old Slash material recently. Axl wants to write and record like AFD again. I feel like it will be if Axl can write lyrics that work for a reunion record. Or self titled record. What's it going to be about? 

That's what is most perplexing. Will the next record have a theme? 

Afd had violence, sex, drugs, hopelessness, hopefulness and heartfelt love. All things you find in the street.

uyi was all that too, but also took chances with a little more polish. 

Guns have always had an existential quality to their music. The plight of the individual. The bitter sexuality of rocket queen gives way to the person realizing he can't treat someone this way. One in a million really drove more of this style of writing, particularly the last verse. We saw more of it with lyrics like dead horse, coma and estranged. Which leads us to CD. 

CD has always had an existential theme to me. Really all the songs seem to at some level point to an individuals inner battle with outside environment. 

Look at Axls life objectively. Not the famous rockstar guy, just a fellow human like you. His life is crazy as fuck. When you think of his upbringing to how he got to Hollywood and actually making it, then championing a new style of art which was totally orongial and gave way to grunge and sold as many records as they have. All of his personal things that happened in his childhood and during other parts of his life.. to being a mega wealthy person living in one of the richest places in the world. It's really incredible. If your neighbor had a story like that you'd tell everyone you know. I'm sure there is more to say. I think Axl is comfortable writing on an existenstial level so thematically I would think that would continue to be the way.

but I'm sure his time in AC/DC put the tongue back in his cheek so there's bound to be a few used to love hers or you ain't the first somewhere. It's anybody's guess.

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