All this talk about Slash and Duff working on CD era stuff, but...

[6lake sa66ath]

36 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

pretty pessimistic view point but albeit not that far from correct, axl's voice is better now than what it was in mid 2000's 

It's really good at the moment on GN'R stuff and excellent on Brian Johnson era Acker Dacker, which I put down to the tricks his old vocal coach has put him back onto I guess..

But nah, the evidence is all out there; 2006-7  > anything else post '93. 

I mean did he even have a weak vocal performance during that period?! Show me the YouTube evidence!

[SoundOfAGun]

I think his vocals have been worse since the tour started. He killed it with ACDC, but doesn't seem to have any fire for the GN'R songs. Axl could pull it out of the bag for a record though; I remember reading he records one vocal line at a time. 

[Tom-Ass]

51 minutes ago, SoundOfAGun said:

I think his vocals have been worse since the tour started. He killed it with ACDC, but doesn't seem to have any fire for the GN'R songs. Axl could pull it out of the bag for a record though; I remember reading he records one vocal line at a time. 

I definitely wouldn't say he is solid.. He has his wow moments but also sounds weak at other times. It is what it is at this point though. The important thing is that he is giving it 100% and he sounds good enough for this to work.. Having Slash and Duff in the mix helps to balance some of Axl's short comings.. Having some more classic members involved would make it even better.

I would like to see them continue to gel and grow again as a live band before anything.

[wasted]

19 hours ago, thunderram said:

 

Well, I respectfully disagree. That riff is one of the most widely recognized in all of rock music. And it's played throughout the chorus. It is THE hook, along with that amazing solo and Axl's voice.

It's just there's no song to hang the hook on without the chords, if you see what I mean. Possibly without that riff maybe it's not a hit, it's hard to say, but it's still a song. I lean more to the song allowing the riff and solo to be iconic. If you just play the circus riff and solos its not a song. Bit chords and vocals is a song. 

Lots of bands have riffs and solos but the lyrics/melody just doesn't work. In other words it's a bad song, or not a hit anyway.

 The verses are where awesome hair metal riffs go to die. So many times I hear an awesome intro riff but then the singer starts singing and the lyrics are awful, vocals aren't cool and it dies. 

Patience is still a hit without iconic guitar riffs and solos. 

To me Jungle is the song which is a hit and is all Slash, he wrote the riff and that's his song where the riff is the song. 

More often than not Izzy or Axl wrote the hits and classics. 

It's more a case of how Slash plays Axl snd Izzy's songs. Even when it's other writers like Spaghetti Incident Slash makes it GNR. 

[thunderram]

8 minutes ago, wasted said:

It's just there's no song to hang the hook on without the chords, if you see what I mean. Possibly without that riff maybe it's not a hit, it's hard to say, but it's still a song. I lean more to the song allowing the riff and solo to be iconic. If you just play the circus riff and solos its not a song. Bit chords and vocals is a song.

 

It goes both ways. Chicken or the egg? We can debate all day, but I think we both agree that the riff and arrangement/chords are equally important. There's no hit without both. That said, my point was that, of the two, the riff is the most recognized part of that song. If you played the average music fan only the chords to that song -- they'd likely have no idea what it was and might even confuse it with numerous other songs that use the same chord pattern. However, if you play them that riff --- instant recognition. That riff is what stood out most about that song, along with Slash's insane solos. The chord patterns and Izzy's little complimentary licks certainly help take it to another level. But that song doesn't reach the heights it did without the riff, solos and Axl's voice.

[WhazUp]

How about Slash, Duff, and Axl get in a room with some guitars (and possibly a piano) and bring us a whole new album filled with kickass tunes?  Sober Slash, sober Duff, and happy & energized Axl, let's see what they can bring us when they work together

[Mendez]

On 6/22/2016 at 9:52 AM, Slim1023 said:

Possibly. That's something I've always wondered. Izzy has no writing credits on Contraband so they probably didn't use any of his ideas. He played at Scott's wife's fashion show though. You Got No Right was part of the 2 song set, so maybe he had a hand in writing that. 

 

One of Slash, Duff or Matt said that the material they worked on with Izzy was the best GnR album since Appetite. Be interesting if that actually exists if it was something they could bring to the table.

Seems like Do It for the Kids was Izzys riff, as he uses the same the same riff, with a slight variation on his song "Bomb" from Like a Dog.

 

As for CD era music. I'd like it to be untouched with Buckethead's, Finck's, Fortus', and Brian Mays original guotar work instead of Bumblefoots additions. And with Brain's drums instead of Frank's

Edited June 29, 2016 by Mendez

[wasted]

8 hours ago, thunderram said:

 

It goes both ways. Chicken or the egg? We can debate all day, but I think we both agree that the riff and arrangement/chords are equally important. There's no hit without both. That said, my point was that, of the two, the riff is the most recognized part of that song. If you played the average music fan only the chords to that song -- they'd likely have no idea what it was and might even confuse it with numerous other songs that use the same chord pattern. However, if you play them that riff --- instant recognition. That riff is what stood out most about that song, along with Slash's insane solos. The chord patterns and Izzy's little complimentary licks certainly help take it to another level. But that song doesn't reach the heights it did without the riff, solos and Axl's voice.

I think we can agree that Slash takes the songs to the next level. His style and sound is more mainstream hard rock than Izzy or Axl. 

But Sweet Child is actually an exception. as in he wrote the riff but on other songs like YCBM, DC, NR, Nightrain, Brownstone, OTGM he didn't. 

I think we were talking about a new album. And the problem is that although Slash and Duff are back so far they haven't written the hits. Slash needs Izzy or Axl to feed him the songs then he will make them commercial hard rock - that is very important. 

I'm not saying Slash isn't vital to success just that the situation in Hybrid Guns in terms of an album might not have changed that much. Because there's no Izzy so stuf like Nightrain, Brownstone, YCBM aren't going to happen. Slash could write a Jungle riff which is great but where does the rest of the material come from that makes it live up to a reunion? Slash working with Axl on his material seems like the bulk of it. That means a lot more mid tempo ballads and epics like CD was. Maybe Duff will come into his own and provide the Izzy/Tommy song. 

A Slash centric album:

Welcome to the Jungle

Garden of Eden

Slither

Fall to Pieces

The Godfather theme 

Civil War

Annatasia

Bad Apples

Don't Damn Me

Coma

Then add Duff & Axl songs

Get in the Ring

So Fine

This I Love

There was a Time

 

I think they could make a more punk metal Back in Black. We won't get the easy riding of AFD again. 

Above is basically all Slash and Duff material from UYI. So they really need to pull the stops out to write a fresh new album. 

And that's why all the talk of Slash on CD era material. 

The GNR reunion is like the first season of True Detective. You think awesomeness is coming but then it just reverts to genre. The reunion tour with a Best of package. Or will they make my version of the script. Marty we have to go back!

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by wasted
Back to the Future

[JustanUrchin]

Great topic and interesting points made by all!

Regarding song “writing” by the characters that everyone is focused on, it seems like debating and ordering the importance of a car’s braking system.  One guy says the drums and the pads.  Another says the rotors.  Another says the drums, pads, and rotors are nothing without the lines and the hydraulic pressure.  Another points out that none of that matters without a driver and a pedal.

For my money, thunderram wins.  It’s like he’s saying that, yes, drums and pads work closely together, but without the hydraulic pressure the drums and pads are just that—two parts that are effective within a system.  That is Izzy and Axl.  Izzy has released a mountain of material on his own.  Does it have the distinctive Guns sound or is it folksy rock?  Axl has put out one album as the primary songwriter.  Does it have the distinctive Guns sound or is it a hodge-podge of mid-tempo cuts and ballads and synth sounds?  Duff has his solo work and work within Loaded and Neurotic Outsiders.  Does it have the distinctive Guns sound or is it mostly punk?  Slash has released three consecutive solo albums charting multiple songs each time.  Does it have the distinctive Guns sound or… does it have the distinctive Guns sound? 

Izzy’s solo work shows his contributions to the Guns sound and his personality as to what rock should sound like—60’s and 70’s with no frills.  Axl’s one album shows his contributions to the sound of the music of Guns and his personality as the songs are all over the place—it’s as if he doesn’t even know what he likes other than ballads.  Duff’s work on his own and Loaded shows his contributions to the Guns sound and his punk rock preference.  Slash’s solo albums are hard/mainstream charting rock.  Put Axl’s voice to virtually any one of the songs on those three albums and I doubt anyone would be the wiser that it was a Slash album and not a Guns album.  Slash, to me, then is Guns’ distinctive sound.  But without Axl on vocals, it isn’t Guns and is no different than a braking system without hydraulic pressure.

What’s more important in rock in general and to this band in particular—chord progression laid underneath or vocals that complement guitar riffs and solos?  Who is most important if only one of them has been relevant in the current and recent rock genre and is the only who charts?

Or, look at the OP’s question this way:  What is an Axl ballad without Slash?  The general public wouldn’t know NR and Estranged any more than they know Street of Dreams.  He would’ve been playing clubs without the band name based on CD’s sales and charting.  What is Izzy without Slash?  Folk mixed with some blues that has a tiny following.  What is Duff without Slash?  Mostly punk with a tiny following.  Duff, Izzy and Axl’s ventures are simply not mainstream rock/hard rock which, obviously then, is reflected in their sales, radio play and charting.  Slash has a litany of charting singles on his last three albums while in that same period the other three have exactly zero.

[JustanUrchin]

Also, I agree with all who’d rather Slash and Duff not pick through the CD leftovers.  Those two cannot salvage Prostitute, Scraped, Bedouin , Rye, etc., etc. type songs.  Slash and Duff have worked Better and CD and TIL up for these shows and improved them, but unless Axl held back songs from CD specifically for Slash, I don’t want Slash and Duff having night sweats trying to salvage songs that didn’t make the cut ahead of what was on CD.  Nor does the general rock world given CD’s sales and popularity.  Slash pumps out charting albums like mere humans change underwear.  He has what it takes and proves it time and again.  I’m sure that they’re all happy jumping aboard his ship, and that’s why I think the OP’s topic hits the nail on the head—is Slash going to buy into rehashing material that doesn’t fit his style and wait around for an indeterminate period of time wringing his hands over a synth here and a sample there?  Seems unlikely given his successful track record.

Off-topic.  I was recently on another Guns forum for a brief period using this same name.  After realizing that three separate posts were deleted without explanation, I haven’t returned.  In fact, one post was removed twice as I thought there’d been an error so I simply reposted.  I didn’t realize that I was being censored until two other posts were removed.  If anyone recognizes my name and connects it to the site in question or to anyone else who has experienced censorship for no apparent reason and without explanation on another forum, I’d be interested in hearing from you.  Thanks!

Enjoyed the discussion that I read—best and most relevant topic that I’ve seen so far.

[jekylhyde]

4 CD-era songs, 4 VR-era songs and 4 new songs written together, BOOM! There's your new album!

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by jekylhyde

[Top-Hatted One]

Other than the Better intro how exactly have they improved those CD songs? They are playing them the same l. The only difference is Slash is purposely playing shitty over-noodling solos that don't suit the song like the original.

Slash is doing the same thing everyone complained about Bumblefoot doing when they used his parts over Buckethead and Brian May on CD. Mindless noodling. On a song like Catcher in the Rye. Now Slash is doing the same to TIL

Edited June 29, 2016 by Top-Hatted One

[jekylhyde]

The tone and the feel of the CD songs are better. Sure, the solos need a little work, but now those songs sound more like Guns N' Roses. (This comes from a person who loves Chinese Democracy)

Edit: I just watched the video of ChiDem from Sunday and the song and the solo sound just perfect, IMO.

Edited June 29, 2016 by jekylhyde

[Tom-Ass]

1 hour ago, Top-Hatted One said:

Other than the Better intro how exactly have they improved  those CD songs? They are playing them the same l. The only difference is Slash is purposely playing shitty over-noodling solos that don't suit the song like the original.

Slash is doing the same thing everyone complained about Bumblefoot doing when they used his parts over Buckethead and Brian May on CD. Mindless noodling. On a song like Catcher in the Rye. Now Slash is doing the same to TIL

Cut the songs out of the set.. Problem solved.  They haven't improved. They are still shit...

[Silent Jay]

Velvet Revolver is mainly unlistenable, and the vault seems empty. Slash used Ghost for his solo album, this song would have been decent enough yet still not the right feel for the monstrosity that is GnR. They might be a couple of decent rockers from the 95'-96' vault they could look at, maybe some mid-tempos as well. I've heard Axl wrote a lot of rockers back then, he could use them now with Slash. There's at least two more Brian May songs, couples of Beltrami tracks, couple of electronic orcherstras. The General wasn't finished yet in 2013, it means it needs Slash to have the right feel for Estranged Part II.

The biggest problem in my opinion isn't really quality, they've got it all but royalties and credits. Like CD Axl will get the lion share, and Duff/Slash would surely want their parts. In a perfect world, they would give the fans the right album with the right songs.

 

Stay Of Execution

Disc 1:

1. The General 
2. 96' Vault (Duff/Slash)
3. Soul Monster
4. Jackie Chan
5. Cuban Skies
6. Down By The Ocean (Izzy)
7. 96' Vault (Duff/Slash)
8. Light My Fire
9. Going Down
10. 96's mid tempo song (Duff/Slash)
11. Ides Of March
12. Atlas Shrugged

Disc 2:

1. New rocker (Duff/ Slash)
2. Quick Song
3. New rocker (Duff/Slash)
4. Thyme
5. Zodiac
6. Blood In The Water
7. Seven
8. Oh My God
9. Silkworms
10. Berlin
11. New Duff song (So fancy)
12. 96' Vault (Duff/Slash)
13. New Axl epic (Duff/Slash/Axl)

[Ralphelmo]

2 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

Velvet Revolver is mainly unlistenable, and the vault seems empty.

It is, cause it's great and the vault is not empty. But I can't expect you to know about sessions with Sebastian and Corey.

[Silent Jay]

1 minute ago, Ralphelmo said:

It is, cause it's great and the vault is not empty. But I can't expect you to know about sessions with Sebastian and Corey.

oh wow Corey Taylor man just a glance at masterpieces in the making right

[wasted]

Slash solo material just isn't GNR worthy. Maybe 1 or 2 on a GNR CD is okay but the majority has to be Axl or Izzy songs. Izzy doesn't seem involved yet so it's mainly going to be Slash on CD era material. Or Slash ideas worked on by Fortus and Axl to get them to the level. 

[Silent Jay]

I'll be ok with one McKagan song, on a double album. Axl has more than twenty songs ready to go, it would be sad to not get the opportunity of hearing one of them. It all comes down with Slash and Duff if they are okay with limited royalties and pretend to have write the stuff.

[Sandro]

On 6/22/2016 at 5:52 PM, Slim1023 said:

One of Slash, Duff or Matt said that the material they worked on with Izzy was the best GnR album since Appetite. Be interesting if that actually exists if it was something they could bring to the table.

One of the songs was what turned into Ghost, of Slash's solo album, and where Izzy plays too. They used the original demo when they tried to find a singer, before Scott came in.

https://youtu.be/6Q3q-L4LRmo

[Tom-Ass]

20 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

Velvet Revolver is mainly unlistenable, and the vault seems empty.

The Vault isn't empty and the album that was recorded as "The Project" apparently doesn't sound like VR, it sounds like Guns N' Roses. Scott turned the offer down after hearing that music because he said it sounded like a Guns N' Roses album and that isn't what he wanted. The VR songs weren't written with Izzy either.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Tom-Ass

[wasted]

7 hours ago, Silent Jay said:

I'll be ok with one McKagan song, on a double album. Axl has more than twenty songs ready to go, it would be sad to not get the opportunity of hearing one of them. It all comes down with Slash and Duff if they are okay with limited royalties and pretend to have write the stuff.

They didn't write half the GNR material so that can't be it. Being involved in recording and having your songs on the record must be enough. Also the records arent going to make much money. They are rolling in touring deniros so helping Axl get CD II out undercover of a reunion record might be the plan.