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Thank you so much for sharing this and I completely agree with the majority in this thread.  Chinese was a underrated album and was a masterpiece.  I'd seriously view as GNRs version of Dark Side Of The Moon when it comes to all these layers and hidden tracks. Once you slap on a good pair of head phones, you begin to make out some of those tracks you don't normally hear in car speakers or a stereo.  It seriously feels like for me, every time I take a listen to this album,  I find something new.  

 

As far as the concert goers and reviewer's who trash the new songs.  They are nothing but arrogant casual radio hit posers. When I saw Guns live a week ago, alot of meatheads that were near me kept shouting Paradise City inbetween songs. I don't value people's negative opinions on Chinese because I find people who diss it, diss it because "Its Not Guns N'Roses" or "it doesn't sound like Appetite " way I see it, you either love the album or you hate it. People who hate tend to go out of their way to make people who like it, to change their minds. I just see those people as ignorant.  

 

As far as the original post goes, is there something in the download section or a link that can be provided for these stripped down tracks?

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1 hour ago, WWEROSES said:

Thank you so much for sharing this and I completely agree with the majority in this thread.  Chinese was a underrated album and was a masterpiece.  I'd seriously view as GNRs version of Dark Side Of The Moon when it comes to all these layers and hidden tracks. Once you slap on a good pair of head phones, you begin to make out some of those tracks you don't normally hear in car speakers or a stereo.  It seriously feels like for me, every time I take a listen to this album,  I find something new.  

As far as the concert goers and reviewer's who trash the new songs.  They are nothing but arrogant casual radio hit posers. When I saw Guns live a week ago, alot of meatheads that were near me kept shouting Paradise City inbetween songs. I don't value people's negative opinions on Chinese because I find people who diss it, diss it because "Its Not Guns N'Roses" or "it doesn't sound like Appetite " way I see it, you either love the album or you hate it. People who hate tend to go out of their way to make people who like it, to change their minds. I just see those people as ignorant.  

You must be drinking the Axl Kool Aid to argue Chinese Democracy "was a masterpiece" and compares to "Dark Side of the Moon"!!   "Dark Side of the Moon" is one of the greatest selling albums of all time, across all genres.  It's sold basically as much as Appetite for Destruction in the US, and is one of the Top 3-4 worldwide bestsellers.   And Chinese Democracy is no Appetite for Destruction.   Dark Side has classic songs, like "Money" and "Us and Them"  AND unifying themes of mentall illness, greed and death.  

Chinese Democracy is just a mish-mosh of Axl attempting to be like Nine Inch Nails in some points, Andrew Lloyd Webber in others, and NuMetal in other places.  It's just mediocre, which it's 1 million of sales reflects.   Hey, I love Axl's songwriting.  I love November Rain, I love Breakdown and most of Estranged, I love Axl's idea to add whistling to Izzy's song "Patience" and I love pretty much all of the lyrics on "Appetite."  

But sometimes you just gotta call a spade a spade:  "Chinese Democracy" is mediocre because it is all over the place and over-produced.   But Axl's writing on Chinese Democracy is not that good.  Some of it was the over-production, some of it was unfocused musical style.   Most important -- and you can't ignore this one -- a good chunk of the problem was that he co-wrote 13 of the 14 songs, mostly with mediocre songwriters.   I'll bet that the CD2 & CD3 demo-material ends up much better after Axl, Slash and Duff work on it together.

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3 minutes ago, sjlgnr said:

You must be drinking the Axl Kool Aid to argue Chinese Democracy "was a masterpiece" and compares to "Dark Side of the Moon"!!   "Dark Side of the Moon" is one of the greatest selling albums of all time, across all genres.  It's sold basically as much as Appetite for Destruction in the US, and is one of the Top 3-4 worldwide bestsellers.   And Chinese Democracy is no Appetite for Destruction.   Dark Side has classic songs, like "Money" and "Us and Them"  AND unifying themes of mentall illness, greed and death.  

Chinese Democracy is just a mish-mosh of Axl attempting to be like Nine Inch Nails in some points, Andrew Lloyd Webber in others, and NuMetal in other places.  It's just mediocre, which it's 1 million of sales reflects.   Hey, I love Axl's songwriting.  I love November Rain, I love Breakdown and most of Estranged, I love Axl's idea to add whistling to Izzy's song "Patience" and I love pretty much all of the lyrics on "Appetite."  

But sometimes you just gotta call a spade a spade:  "Chinese Democracy" is mediocre because it is all over the place and over-produced.   But Axl's writing on Chinese Democracy is not that good.  Some of it was the over-production, some of it was unfocused musical style.   Most important -- and you can't ignore this one -- a good chunk of the problem was that he co-wrote 13 of the 14 songs, mostly with mediocre songwriters.   I'll bet that the CD2 & CD3 demo-material ends up much better after Axl, Slash and Duff work on it together.

Calm down dude, it seems you didn't read his post properly. He didn't say CD was as good as DSOTM, but that it's GNRs version of that album to him, because just like the PF album it has tons of layers and effects. Ofc the albums don't compare quality wise. That said, wtf with the sales argument, One Direction sell millions, what a good band right?

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5 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

Calm down dude, it seems you didn't read his post properly. He didn't say CD was as good as DSOTM, but that it's GNRs version of that album to him, because just like the PF album it has tons of layers and effects. Ofc the albums don't compare quality wise. That said, wtf with the sales argument, One Direction sell millions, what a good band right?

He called it a "masterpiece" and compared it to "Dark Side of the Moon," when it's actually closer to mediocre "Queensryche."   I appreciate your sane concession that the album doesn't compare quality-wise.  

Sales argument has meaning in the rock/hard rock genre.  You don't get there unless you're a great album.  Even in any genre:  I don't see anyone saying that an album reaching this from any genre is bad.  You only get that high when you do something memorable.  One Direction is nowhere near that level.  Even their prior-day analogs, Backstreet Boys and N'Sync never got there, even with 20 years for people to keep buying those albums for 99 cents a K-Mart.  But my point's really focused on the genre:  In Rock/Hard Rock, you only get there with a great album:  Look at the list:  AC/DC "Back in Black," Led Zeppelin "IV", The Beatles' White Album and "1967-70", the Eagles "Hotel California" and "Greatest Hits", Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon and the Wall, Boston's "Boston" and Metallica's Black Album.   It's a pretty good barometer of a great album.  There are not a lot of great rock albums out there that aren't at least at 5-10 million albums sold.

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On 06/07/2016 at 10:29 AM, cremefraiche said:

Very cool. The meticulousness that went in to the recording and production of this album is Brian Wilson-esque. What an outstanding achievement for Axl, the catharsis is palpable throughout.

 Such a shame the cynical internet generation didn't even give it a chance when it was released. Makes ya think that if they released the EXACT same album with the current line up it'd do a lot better commercially and critically simply because it's slightly cooler to like GNR in 2016 than it was in 2008.

Definitely one of my all-time favourite albums, top 20 for sure. 

It wouldn't have been the exact same album though, if the current line up recorded it it would have been far closer to a real GNR album influenced by more than one member of the band. I imagine it would have done better commercially, not because its cool, but because it would have had real GNR cred & sound. It would not have became the mess it did. 

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6 hours ago, WWEROSES said:

Thank you so much for sharing this and I completely agree with the majority in this thread.  Chinese was a underrated album and was a masterpiece.  I'd seriously view as GNRs version of Dark Side Of The Moon when it comes to all these layers and hidden tracks. Once you slap on a good pair of head phones, you begin to make out some of those tracks you don't normally hear in car speakers or a stereo.  It seriously feels like for me, every time I take a listen to this album,  I find something new.  

 

As far as the concert goers and reviewer's who trash the new songs.  They are nothing but arrogant casual radio hit posers. When I saw Guns live a week ago, alot of meatheads that were near me kept shouting Paradise City inbetween songs. I don't value people's negative opinions on Chinese because I find people who diss it, diss it because "Its Not Guns N'Roses" or "it doesn't sound like Appetite " way I see it, you either love the album or you hate it. People who hate tend to go out of their way to make people who like it, to change their minds. I just see those people as ignorant.  

 

As far as the original post goes, is there something in the download section or a link that can be provided for these stripped down tracks?

:facepalm:

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Mediocre CD? Bad songwriting? Are you joking? What the hell? I take few examples: TWAT, Prostitute, Madagascar, Catcher, Sorry... If you say these songs are mediocre you have some problems of honesty. These songs buries complete discographies of many bands. There's nothing more to add. 

 

 

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Now I remember why I spent so many years away from this forum. People not reading posts correctly and making up facts as they go along with people's opnions. If you re-read my post, I clearly state it's "GNRs version of Dark Side Of The Moon when it comes to layers and hidden tracks" never did I say it's on the same level of creativity and depth that Dark Side Of The Moon has. If I had to choice which is better, then I'd pick Dark Side anyday over Chinese. And never did I bring up album sales. In my opinion,  album sales are irrelevant since the dawn of the download age. As far as a masterpiece,  why does it bother you so much that I see as one? Some people view One Directions last album as a masterpiece,  doesn't mean it's viewed that way to everyone.  It's simply based on one's opinion.  As far as I feel about the people I mentioned who go to the shows and crap on the new songs and shout Paradise City inbetween songs. Again,  it's my opinion and it's how I feel. I understand casual fans go to hear the radio hits, but to be ignorant and not give the new songs a chance (which the majority that were near me at the concerts never heard of the Chinese Democracy material ) and keep shouting Paradise City inbetween songs is annoying to me. People go to concerts to enjoy themselves, people pay alot of money to go. Just because you don't like some songs, or you are there to hear the hits, doesn't entitle you to make the people around try to feel the same way.  I highly doubt you shouting Paradise City from 100 yards away over other screaming fans and loud music is going to make the band play that song, with them only 4 songs into the set. I don't care for This I Love, but I didn't crap on it during the show, I listened with open ears and gave it a chance on both night's and even with Slashs amazing guitar solos, I still didn't care for the song. For me, the song got overplayed during my youth when I was going through some tough times relationship wise. 

Calling me a Kool aid drinker because I actually like CD I find funny.  I do like grape flavored kool aid btw. you could call the people who go to concerts to only hear the radio hits kool aid drinkers too.

CD is a Guns album. Go to itunes, Amazon or any record store, its right with all the other Guns Albums. Simple as that, don't like some of my opinions,  then I'm sorry you're losing sleep over it.

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22 minutes ago, WWEROSES said:

Now I remember why I spent so many years away from this forum. People not reading posts correctly and making up facts as they go along with people's opnions. If you re-read my post, I clearly state it's "GNRs version of Dark Side Of The Moon when it comes to layers and hidden tracks" never did I say it's on the same level of creativity and depth that Dark Side Of The Moon has. If I had to choice which is better, then I'd pick Dark Side anyday over Chinese. And never did I bring up album sales. In my opinion,  album sales are irrelevant since the dawn of the download age. As far as a masterpiece,  why does it bother you so much that I see as one? Some people view One Directions last album as a masterpiece,  doesn't mean it's viewed that way to everyone.  It's simply based on one's opinion.  As far as I feel about the people I mentioned who go to the shows and crap on the new songs and shout Paradise City inbetween songs. Again,  it's my opinion and it's how I feel. I understand casual fans go to hear the radio hits, but to be ignorant and not give the new songs a chance (which the majority that were near me at the concerts never heard of the Chinese Democracy material ) and keep shouting Paradise City inbetween songs is annoying to me. People go to concerts to enjoy themselves, people pay alot of money to go. Just because you don't like some songs, or you are there to hear the hits, doesn't entitle you to make the people around try to feel the same way.  I highly doubt you shouting Paradise City from 100 yards away over other screaming fans and loud music is going to make the band play that song, with them only 4 songs into the set. I don't care for This I Love, but I didn't crap on it during the show, I listened with open ears and gave it a chance on both night's and even with Slashs amazing guitar solos, I still didn't care for the song. For me, the song got overplayed during my youth when I was going through some tough times relationship wise. 

Calling me a Kool aid drinker because I actually like CD I find funny.  I do like grape flavored kool aid btw. you could call the people who go to concerts to only hear the radio hits kool aid drinkers too.

CD is a Guns album. Go to itunes, Amazon or any record store, its right with all the other Guns Albums. Simple as that, don't like some of my opinions,  then I'm sorry you're losing sleep over it.

 

 

Sorry dude, my comment on your post was uncalled for. 

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The Prostitute whisper could also be "Without you", which would actually make some sense. Just think about the short story with the same name. And also, "without you" gives the next line some more meaning: "Without you... Seems like forever, and a day".

Also I found the throat cleaning in Sorry funny - I'd like to see if Axl is aware of that, considering how detail oriented he is :) 

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18 minutes ago, bumblerose said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHiCOuisF_I

abit off topic but is there any chance this buckethead and bootsy collins song may have inspired shacklers revenge? it is called shackler after all...

yeap. 
Shacklers came from this stuff, theres a interview about this somewhere. 

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20 hours ago, sjlgnr said:

You must be drinking the Axl Kool Aid to argue Chinese Democracy "was a masterpiece" and compares to "Dark Side of the Moon"!!   "Dark Side of the Moon" is one of the greatest selling albums of all time, across all genres.  It's sold basically as much as Appetite for Destruction in the US, and is one of the Top 3-4 worldwide bestsellers.   And Chinese Democracy is no Appetite for Destruction.   Dark Side has classic songs, like "Money" and "Us and Them"  AND unifying themes of mentall illness, greed and death.  

Chinese Democracy is just a mish-mosh of Axl attempting to be like Nine Inch Nails in some points, Andrew Lloyd Webber in others, and NuMetal in other places.  It's just mediocre, which it's 1 million of sales reflects.   Hey, I love Axl's songwriting.  I love November Rain, I love Breakdown and most of Estranged, I love Axl's idea to add whistling to Izzy's song "Patience" and I love pretty much all of the lyrics on "Appetite."  

But sometimes you just gotta call a spade a spade:  "Chinese Democracy" is mediocre because it is all over the place and over-produced.   But Axl's writing on Chinese Democracy is not that good.  Some of it was the over-production, some of it was unfocused musical style.   Most important -- and you can't ignore this one -- a good chunk of the problem was that he co-wrote 13 of the 14 songs, mostly with mediocre songwriters.   I'll bet that the CD2 & CD3 demo-material ends up much better after Axl, Slash and Duff work on it together.

sit down, mark

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On 7/30/2016 at 8:37 PM, WWEROSES said:

Now I remember why I spent so many years away from this forum. People not reading posts correctly and making up facts as they go along with people's opnions. If you re-read my post, I clearly state it's "GNRs version of Dark Side Of The Moon when it comes to layers and hidden tracks" never did I say it's on the same level of creativity and depth that Dark Side Of The Moon has. If I had to choice which is better, then I'd pick Dark Side anyday over Chinese. And never did I bring up album sales. In my opinion,  album sales are irrelevant since the dawn of the download age. As far as a masterpiece,  why does it bother you so much that I see as one? Some people view One Directions last album as a masterpiece,  doesn't mean it's viewed that way to everyone.  It's simply based on one's opinion.  As far as I feel about the people I mentioned who go to the shows and crap on the new songs and shout Paradise City inbetween songs. Again,  it's my opinion and it's how I feel. I understand casual fans go to hear the radio hits, but to be ignorant and not give the new songs a chance (which the majority that were near me at the concerts never heard of the Chinese Democracy material ) and keep shouting Paradise City inbetween songs is annoying to me. People go to concerts to enjoy themselves, people pay alot of money to go. Just because you don't like some songs, or you are there to hear the hits, doesn't entitle you to make the people around try to feel the same way.  I highly doubt you shouting Paradise City from 100 yards away over other screaming fans and loud music is going to make the band play that song, with them only 4 songs into the set. I don't care for This I Love, but I didn't crap on it during the show, I listened with open ears and gave it a chance on both night's and even with Slashs amazing guitar solos, I still didn't care for the song. For me, the song got overplayed during my youth when I was going through some tough times relationship wise. 

Calling me a Kool aid drinker because I actually like CD I find funny.  I do like grape flavored kool aid btw. you could call the people who go to concerts to only hear the radio hits kool aid drinkers too.

CD is a Guns album. Go to itunes, Amazon or any record store, its right with all the other Guns Albums. Simple as that, don't like some of my opinions,  then I'm sorry you're losing sleep over it.

Go ahead and like CD.  But calling it a masterpiece is just not credible.  That opinion puts you in a small minority, most of whom are Axl's entourage.  A masterpiece is a rock n' roll classic.  And Chinese Democracy is no classic.  It's not a subjective matter.  No credible rock n' roll publication or critic holds Chinese Democracy out as a masterpiece.  And, as widely reported, most Guns n' Roses fans do not want to hear it -- including Howard Stern and multiple interviewees at Concerts, as reported by Alternative Nation.  http://www.alternativenation.net/howard-stern-doesnt-want-guns-n-roses-play-chinese-democracy-payday/

All the overdubs and multi-tracked vocals and guitars just ruin the album.  There are a couple of OK songs, and some good ideas on others.  But most of the songs just don't come together, because the album lacks a stylistic focus and because of the perfectionism.  The title track and Shackler's Revenge are ok.  But the others just don't come together, e.g., second verses/riffs that sound like entirely different songs (e.g., Riad n' the Bedouins, Scraped).   As a GnR fan, I'm also embarrassed by the choir and synth openings (TWAT, Madagascar, Prostitute, If the World, Scraped, & even Better has a terrible intro).  And then on other songs with generally good music, the lyrics fall short or the songs goes nowhere (Sorry, Better, Catcher in the Rye).   Seriously, lyrics like "I'll kick your ass like I said I would" on "Sorry" take a good song and put it into "Get in the Ring Territory."   And the navel-gazing self-pity on TWAT is off-putting.   So, just mediocre.  

I'm with Jon Pareles, the New York Times reviewer, who wrote that Chinese Democracy is "a shipwreck, capsized by pretensions and top-heavy production.  In its 14 songs there are glimpses of heartfelt ferocity and despair, along with bursts of remarkable musicianship.  But they are overwhelmed by countless layers of studio diddling and a tone of curdled self-pity." J. Pareles, "How Axl Rose Spent All That Time," (N.Y. Times, Nov. 23, 2008), available at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/arts/music/23pare.html 

As you should be able to tell from the above, I've given Chinese Democracy plenty of chances.  I bought it, listened to it, and waited 15 years for it.  It was a massive disappointment, primarily because of the over-production, but also because Axl tried to do with without the rest of the band.   Having lived through that disappointment, I'd prefer not to be reminded of it at a concert where I am paying hundreds of dollars for a "reunion" of the original band, which implies they will be playing songs from their prime.   When Chinese Democracy songs bump "Don't Cry" or "Patience," and indeed, all of the songs from "Lies," then that is a problem.  

1-2 songs off CD would be fine, especially since Axl's doing my personal favorite from Illusions, "Coma."  But 3-4 is a bit much.

 

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3 hours ago, sjlgnr said:

Go ahead and like CD.  But calling it a masterpiece is just not credible.  That opinion puts you in a small minority, most of whom are Axl's entourage.  A masterpiece is a rock n' roll classic.  And Chinese Democracy is no classic.  It's not a subjective matter.  No credible rock n' roll publication or critic holds Chinese Democracy out as a masterpiece.  And, as widely reported, most Guns n' Roses fans do not want to hear it -- including Howard Stern and multiple interviewees at Concerts, as reported by Alternative Nation.  http://www.alternativenation.net/howard-stern-doesnt-want-guns-n-roses-play-chinese-democracy-payday/

All the overdubs and multi-tracked vocals and guitars just ruin the album.  There are a couple of OK songs, and some good ideas on others.  But most of the songs just don't come together, because the album lacks a stylistic focus and because of the perfectionism.  The title track and Shackler's Revenge are ok.  But the others just don't come together, e.g., second verses/riffs that sound like entirely different songs (e.g., Riad n' the Bedouins, Scraped).   As a GnR fan, I'm also embarrassed by the choir and synth openings (TWAT, Madagascar, Prostitute, If the World, Scraped, & even Better has a terrible intro).  And then on other songs with generally good music, the lyrics fall short or the songs goes nowhere (Sorry, Better, Catcher in the Rye).   Seriously, lyrics like "I'll kick your ass like I said I would" on "Sorry" take a good song and put it into "Get in the Ring Territory."   And the navel-gazing self-pity on TWAT is off-putting.   So, just mediocre.  

I'm with Jon Pareles, the New York Times reviewer, who wrote that Chinese Democracy is "a shipwreck, capsized by pretensions and top-heavy production.  In its 14 songs there are glimpses of heartfelt ferocity and despair, along with bursts of remarkable musicianship.  But they are overwhelmed by countless layers of studio diddling and a tone of curdled self-pity." J. Pareles, "How Axl Rose Spent All That Time," (N.Y. Times, Nov. 23, 2008), available at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/arts/music/23pare.html 

As you should be able to tell from the above, I've given Chinese Democracy plenty of chances.  I bought it, listened to it, and waited 15 years for it.  It was a massive disappointment, primarily because of the over-production, but also because Axl tried to do with without the rest of the band.   Having lived through that disappointment, I'd prefer not to be reminded of it at a concert where I am paying hundreds of dollars for a "reunion" of the original band, which implies they will be playing songs from their prime.   When Chinese Democracy songs bump "Don't Cry" or "Patience," and indeed, all of the songs from "Lies," then that is a problem.  

1-2 songs off CD would be fine, especially since Axl's doing my personal favorite from Illusions, "Coma."  But 3-4 is a bit much.

 

I'm afraid it is a subjective matter, just because you don't like that people have a different opinion than you doesn't mean you can just try and act like yours is fact, you seem like someone who can't fathom the idea of people not thinking like you do. I don't mind that CD songs are on the set list, although I wish they'd stop doing better, he can't sing that song well live anymore. I do think CD is a masterpiece honestly, I can listen to it all the way through and enjoy every moment. I agree a lot of people think differently but that doesn't mean that my opinion is wrong, it is just that, an opinion, not fact. You seem to think that just because you're in the majority it makes the minority's opinion irrelevant or somehow conclusively wrong, that's not how it works.

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Something having a lot of layers does not make it a "masterpiece". Chinese is for the most part a jumbled unfinished mess, there are some good (a couple of great) songs in there but they are buried deep under a lot of unnecessary shit. I like the album and each time I listen it's better than I remember but a masterpiece it is not.

One should never confuse complexity with brilliance.

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