How did Slash agree to play all these Chinese songs?

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, wasted said:

I think it describes the situation pretty well. Just like Turn around bitch I got a use for stew. 

I can buy they think it's a genuinely poorly produced album or not to their tastes. But songwriting wise I reject completely that it is poor. But I get with Bucket and Finck etc it doesn't deliver the hard rock product a lot want from GNR. But with Slash and Duff on board I think that is solved to a great degree. 

If it is any consolation I'd rate the songwriting higher than the aesthetics, but it is certainly Axl's poorest suite of songs. There are, how many, fourteen songs on there and I honestly do not know what any of them are about except a lot of them are about Stephanie Seymour? This I Love was so hyped up also; I was expecting a big ten minute long intricate masterpiece and what I got was a song so sappy it sounds like it is drenched in treacle - it would shame 1980s' McCartney. And IRS where he simple repeats numerous acronyms during the chorus - awful.

''I'll kick your ass like I said that I would'' -jesus!

 

[wasted]

Axl may just enjoy singing those CD songs, and Slash even playing them. Slash possibly has more fun noodling to Sorry or doing the Better intro than jangling to UTLH. 

Why make the setlist a pawn in the feud that is over? 

Edited July 26, 2016 by wasted
Feud is over

[RONIN]

59 minutes ago, wasted said:

I think it describes the situation pretty well. Just like Turn around bitch I got a use for stew. 

I can buy they think it's a genuinely poorly produced album or not to their tastes. But songwriting wise I reject completely that it is poor. But I get with Bucket and Finck etc it doesn't deliver the hard rock product a lot want from GNR. But with Slash and Duff on board I think that is solved to a great degree. 

Look, it's really simple.

1. The album is very poorly produced. Songs that could have been good have been irreparably ruined by the mixing.

2. Axl has great ideas and is a talented lyricist. However, CD proves he is not guns n Roses. He has the ideas but he can't execute flawlessly without his all star team (Izzy, Duff and Slash). Even Buckethead couldn't save him because it wasn't really a creative collaboration -- he was just cutting and pasting bucket riffs (see below).

3. The creative process for CD was screwed up. Overusing pro-tools to mix and match thousands of different takes from a gigantic revolving door of session musicians is not a great way to recreate the wild, spontaneous spirit of the original band. That's why so many fans feel the album is soulless -- because it was a Frankenstein product that was cobbled together on pro tools instead of the band jamming together.

4. Axl stagnated creatively. His lyrics on CD were underwhelming because the guy was still pining over Stephanie Seymour and feeling sorry for himself after the original lineup walked. He was much less interesting and vital during the Chinese democracy years.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this CD era should be closed and tossed into the rubbish heap. 20 yrs wasted on this shit. For what? A handful of once-promising songs that are stale and ignored at concerts by most fans. Let it go. Nu guns was a failure and a blight on the legend of GnR.

[sjlgnr]

15 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Look, it's really simple.

1. The album is very poorly produced. Songs that could have been good have been irreparably ruined by the mixing.

2. Axl has great ideas and is a talented lyricist. However, CD proves he is not guns n Roses. He has the ideas but he can't execute flawlessly without his all star team (Izzy, Duff and Slash). Even Buckethead couldn't save him because it wasn't really a creative collaboration -- he was just cutting and pasting bucket riffs (see below).

3. The creative process for CD was screwed up. Overusing pro-tools to mix and match thousands of different takes from a gigantic revolving door of session musicians is not a great way to recreate the wild, spontaneous spirit of the original band. That's why so many fans feel the album is soulless -- because it was a Frankenstein product that was cobbled together on pro tools instead of the band jamming together.

4. Axl stagnated creatively. His lyrics on CD were underwhelming because the guy was still pining over Stephanie Seymour and feeling sorry for himself after the original lineup walked. He was much less interesting and vital during the Chinese democracy years.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this CD era should be closed and tossed into the rubbish heap. 20 yrs wasted on this shit. For what? A handful of once-promising songs that are stale and ignored at concerts by most fans. Let it go. Nu guns was a failure and a blight on the legend of GnR.

Well said.  Agreed!

[Frey]

That "soulless" complaint is so dumb though. Whether you feel a piece of music (or an entire album full of them) has soul is a completely subjective thing and not the fact that so many people like to present it as. Same with the songs on CD being "weak" or "bad". Personally, I don't find it soulless at all. You can feel Axl's passion, anger, grief and how much he obsessed over it. And I also don't think all the songs on there are weak. In fact, I think some songs on there are pretty damn great and sound very GnR to me.

Street of Dreams sounds very UYI like to me for example and I think it's a great song.

TWAT and Better are good songs as well. Shackler's is cool too. Sorry has a cool heavy, slow groove (and entertaining lyrics which just keep getting more entertaining in light of recent developments)

Madagascar is nice. Prostitute is gorgeous. The orchestral arrangements on that are amazing.

I don't care much for CITR personally, but apparently a lot of people think it's awesome.

Even crap like This I Love is great if you strip away the awful lyrics (similar issue with IRS).

Which leaves me with Chinese Democracy, Rhiad, Scraped and ITW, which are pure crap imo. But that's only 4 songs that I think are truely awful, no more than on most albums of any band

Also can anyone fill me on who Eddie Money is and why he is an insider with believable info? I mean no offense to you dude, I'm grateful you shared your insights, I'm just not all that familiar with the people on this forum and everything.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Frey

[Słash]

5 minutes ago, Frey said:

Also can anyone fill me on who Eddie Money is and why he is an insider with believable info?

 

YOU DON'T SAY.....

Well he has given us accurate info regarding the shows much before they were announced, most of the things he has said has been true, he is a cool guy and a good musician too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Money

 

[NicoRourke]

@Tom-Ass rest assured, I'm not butthurt - you have your opinion and that's cool and you have every right to feel and think the way you do. It's just that you state it repeatedly in every show thread and it's kind of annoying, at least for me. I like CD a lot and I'm happy that I can listen and view videos of them played at the shows. And I hope also that I'll get to see them being played in Europe at some point.

All is cool, in the end we just have different opinions. And we love GN'R, and prefer some specific era(s) more than others so there's passion in the debates.

On topic, regardless of all the 'insider' things we read, I just want everything to be cool between the guys in the band, and that this regrouping will bear fruits in the form of new music. Slash playing CD songs to make Axl happy is one step in the right direction. Axl potentialy singing some VR is another. Once their musical chemistry is well in place, who knows - we might be in for a treat.

[Frey]

8 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

YOU DON'T SAY.....

Well he has given us accurate info regarding the shows much before they were announced, most of the things he has said has been true, he is a cool guy and a good musician too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Money

For the record, I  do know who that Eddie Money (the musician) is. Was just not assuming he posts on a GnR forum

I don't find it hard to believe that what mygnr-Eddie Money says could be true, it's close to what I and many other people who've tried to be at least somewhat objective about this have said. And Axl "forgetting" about rehearsals just sounds very... Axl-ish. Whether he actually forgot about them or had other reasons for not showing up.

[wasted]

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

Look, it's really simple.

1. The album is very poorly produced. Songs that could have been good have been irreparably ruined by the mixing.

2. Axl has great ideas and is a talented lyricist. However, CD proves he is not guns n Roses. He has the ideas but he can't execute flawlessly without his all star team (Izzy, Duff and Slash). Even Buckethead couldn't save him because it wasn't really a creative collaboration -- he was just cutting and pasting bucket riffs (see below).

3. The creative process for CD was screwed up. Overusing pro-tools to mix and match thousands of different takes from a gigantic revolving door of session musicians is not a great way to recreate the wild, spontaneous spirit of the original band. That's why so many fans feel the album is soulless -- because it was a Frankenstein product that was cobbled together on pro tools instead of the band jamming together.

4. Axl stagnated creatively. His lyrics on CD were underwhelming because the guy was still pining over Stephanie Seymour and feeling sorry for himself after the original lineup walked. He was much less interesting and vital during the Chinese democracy years.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this CD era should be closed and tossed into the rubbish heap. 20 yrs wasted on this shit. For what? A handful of once-promising songs that are stale and ignored at concerts by most fans. Let it go. Nu guns was a failure and a blight on the legend of GnR.

1. Not really. it's subjective. There's 7 tracks I consider perfect production wise. 

2. Not true. See above.

3. Fair enough. Not trying to reproduce AFD spirit. It was a 90s spirited album. I also see that the unique circumstances and process produced a varied and sometimes inconsistent album. But track by track the quality is high. 

4. Lyrically, I'm not buying it.

Lyrical themes very similar in some cases - Chi dem/Riad/civil war. Shackler's/YCBM, Scraped/OTGM, Sorry/Get in the ring, TIL/Don't Cry. 

And there's always songs about chicks. 

But I could accept that there's no sex, drugs n rock n roll lyrically. It's like an Izzy-less UYI lyrically. Have to accept that, and what happened. But songs like SOD, TWat, Catcher, IRS, TIL are very comparable to UYI material. 

What I was saying was that UYI type material on CD played by Slash and Duff really brings it back to being so close to GNR you should like. So don't make a big deal about 4 songs. 

Chi dem sounds awesome with Slash. Better has been rocked out, TIL was written in the UYI era Slash now does the solo (enjoy), Sorry is Get in the Ring II with beautiful guitar work. 

But overall it's a positive for Slash and Duff to want to play these for Axl, it's something he put his life into. 

Let the feud go. 

[DieselDaisy]

Lyrics,

''sitting in a chinese stew''

''Think I'm going to call the IRA, the CIA think of a acronym''

''I'll kick your ass like I said that I would'' (this is Get in the Ring-esque level of Axl childlessness).

One of the outtakes has the following,

''Pussy full of maggots, you know that's who you are''

[BreakDown2014]

There are some horrible lyrics on CD (IRS is probably the best example), but imo there are songs that have some of the best work Axl has ever done lirically speaking. Better, Catcher in the Rye, There was a Time, Street of Dreams al have GREAT lyrics.

[wasted]

3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

If it is any consolation I'd rate the songwriting higher than the aesthetics, but it is certainly Axl's poorest suite of songs. There are, how many, fourteen songs on there and I honestly do not know what any of them are about except a lot of them are about Stephanie Seymour? This I Love was so hyped up also; I was expecting a big ten minute long intricate masterpiece and what I got was a song so sappy it sounds like it is drenched in treacle - it would shame 1980s' McCartney. And IRS where he simple repeats numerous acronyms during the chorus - awful.

''I'll kick your ass like I said that I would'' -jesus!

 

Well it's just a reference to Get in the Ring isn't it? 

I rate IRS for setting a rant to music with incendiary solos/riff. Axl is good at capturing emotions. 

Personally I like the aesethetics, I like other records like it. 

I'm not a huge ballad fan, I see TIL as no worse than Don't Cry, this is part of GNR. Both songs I can enjoy for the craft they display. 

I agree CD songs aren't obvious meaning wise but I believe it's there and finally kind of leans to the universal. There's an 90s artiness to having titles not mentioned in the song. But songs like SOD have lyrics no more dense than Paradise City. I'm not sure all GNR songs were obvious, it took me a while with OIAM, PC, Estranged. Catcher is very difficult. I feel like TWAT reveals itself lyrically like classic GNR. 

generally it's same ole Axl. But I think the impact of not being off set by Izzy's lyrics/themes was felt and made Axl's heaviness lyrically seem more overbearing.  

But I accept CD is not classic Guns sounding. But with Slash Duff playing them with Axl's vocals and melodies, it's got to be much more palatable. But yes the other side of the coin being Izzy is still missing.

But at the very least there's 5 near UYI songs from CD being played live. 

[Tom-Ass]

1 hour ago, NicoRourke said:

All is cool, in the end we just have different opinions. And we love GN'R, and prefer some specific era(s) more than others so there's passion in the debates.

All good my fellow Gn'R brother.  I appreciate the reply..

I hope you get to see some CD songs in Europe too. Just no more than 2 a show unless it is Axl's new solo band! haha  

[wasted]

40 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Lyrics,

''sitting in a chinese stew''

''Think I'm going to call the IRA, the CIA think of a acronym''

''I'll kick your ass like I said that I would'' (this is Get in the Ring-esque level of Axl childlessness).

One of the outtakes has the following,

''Pussy full of maggots, you know that's who you are''

This is a none starter because lyrics on other GNR songs are just as "bad". 

Turn around bitch I got a use for you?

Sometimes I want to ...Sometimes I want to...die, cry, live, give

i think you're so low class and you can suck my ass

prrsonally I think it all works in the context of the songs, but Axl's lyrics are about the same on CD. 

Izzy's off beat elegance is missed and a whole lotta rose is a very large scoop of paranoia, heartbreak and individualism. Izzy n Duff tunes were always a intermission between the psycho melodrama. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by wasted
Personal

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, wasted said:

This is a none starter because lyrics on other GNR songs are just as "bad". 

Turn around bitch I got a use for you?

Sometimes I want to ...Sometimes I want to...die, cry, live, give

i think you're so low class and you can suck my ass

prrsonally I think it all works in the context of the songs, but Axl's lyrics are about the same. 

Izzy's off beat elegance is missed and a whole lotta rose is a very large scoop of paranoia, heartbreak and individualism. Izzy n Duff tunes were always a intermission between the psycho melodrama. 

Some of the sleazy stuff can be explained away by their context, it being a sleazy rock n' roll band on their debut, but I suppose I credited Axl as possessing a potential progression in lyrical gifts, the likes of Estranged representing the apex (reached) as of 1991 (when we last dipped into his brain). ''Sitting in a Chinese Stew'' is a terrible climb down from Estranged, and it does not have the explanation that it was penned in a stinky old garage. The Chinese are not even a stewy sort of people - stews are more a European thing; they prefer stir frying.

It does not, as a lyric, even have the common decency to be culinary correct!!

'Sorry' is pure unadulterated Axl bile, of the same vanquished imagination that brought you 'One in a Million' and 'Get in the Ring', both themselves risible stinkers (lyrically).

[wasted]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Some of the sleazy stuff can be explained away by their context, it being a sleazy rock n' roll band on their debut, but I suppose I credited Axl as possessing a potential progression in lyrical gifts, the likes of Estranged representing the apex (reached) as of 1991 (when we last dipped into his brain). ''Sitting in a Chinese Stew'' is a terrible climb down from Estranged, and it does not have the explanation that it was penned in a stinky old garage. The Chinese are not even a stewy sort of people - stews are more a European thing; they prefer stir frying.

It does not, as a lyric, even have the common decency to be culinary correct!!

'Sorry' is pure unadulterated Axl bile, of the same vanquished imagination that brought you 'One in a Million' and 'Get in the Ring', both themselves risible stinkers (lyrically).

So it's not just CD. I call my mother she's just a cunt now. I don't know it's cool at the time, but great lyrics? 

I think you can cherry pick lyrics from all eras and laugh at them. 

Chinese do have many stews in different provinces. But not so much in hong kong which is what we base chinese takeaway on. Generally we are more interested in spicy dishes or sweet n sour pork balls. Yum. But the Beef, pig intestine and turnip stew is more of a winter warmer and not so popular with tourists. 

I kind of like the play on words of chinese stew. Axl fuming at commies. A lot of the CD lyrics have these double meanings. Or they aren't what they appear to be. Shackler's and Catcher have the 3rd person characters which I don't think Axl has done for a full song. Maybe PC and RQ have it but not as cinematic. 

[killuridols]

5 minutes ago, wasted said:

So it's not just CD. I call my mother she's just a cunt now. I don't know it's cool at the time, but great lyrics? 

I think you can cherry pick lyrics from all eras and laugh at them. 

Chinese do have many stews in different provinces. But not so much in hong kong which is what we base chinese takeaway on. Generally we are more interested in spicy dishes or sweet n sour pork balls. Yum. But the Beef, pig intestine and turnip stew is more of a winter warmer and not so popular with tourists. 

I kind of like the play on words of chinese stew. Axl fuming at commies. A lot of the CD lyrics have these double meanings. Or they aren't what they appear to be. Shackler's and Catcher have the 3rd person characters which I don't think Axl has done for a full song. Maybe PC and RQ have it but not as cinematic. 

are you Chinese? or live in China?

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, wasted said:

So it's not just CD. I call my mother she's just a cunt now. I don't know it's cool at the time, but great lyrics? 

I think you can cherry pick lyrics from all eras and laugh at them. 

Chinese do have many stews in different provinces. But not so much in hong kong which is what we base chinese takeaway on. Generally we are more interested in spicy dishes or sweet n sour pork balls. Yum. But the Beef, pig intestine and turnip stew is more of a winter warmer and not so popular with tourists. 

I kind of like the play on words of chinese stew. Axl fuming at commies. A lot of the CD lyrics have these double meanings. Or they aren't what they appear to be. Shackler's and Catcher have the 3rd person characters which I don't think Axl has done for a full song. Maybe PC and RQ have it but not as cinematic. 

Out of interest, and considering to tried out for Derbyshire, are you the progenitor of the term, Chinaman (as in a left arm wrist spinner)?

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

On 7/20/2016 at 9:32 AM, GnRDuff1 said:

Maybe he likes the tunes. Maybe those are the ones Axl wanted Slash on in 2001. Well, obviously not Better, since it was written circa 2003. But the other ones might be that old. Personally, I'm happy he's willing to play those songs because I loved CD. I don't care whether the AFD5-only fans like it, I am a fan.

So what if 20,000 people "go take a piss" during those 4 songs? GnR already got those people's money, and who knows, maybe 5,000 or so people will reeeally dig those songs and go out and discover the CD stuff. In Axl's mind, I'm sure that's worth it. 

i like Better. i wish they would do the other CD songs in a block as i have to go to the ladie's room to "go take a piss" and it's usually a long line!

[wasted]

No, I just live in China. But I've heard of that Chinaman, my guess is it's linked the Chinese being seen as sneaky or devious? Chinese eyes as seen in Cheech n Chong probably opium related!

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

1 minute ago, wasted said:

 as seen in Cheech n Chong probably opium related!

opium related? <perk> j/k! although the idea of an opium den has always intrigued me...

[Silent Jay]

3 hours ago, RONIN said:

Look, it's really simple.

1. The album is very poorly produced. Songs that could have been good have been irreparably ruined by the mixing.

 

I'm gonna stop right there. Cause you should maybe learn what's good mixing and mastering about. 

[wasted]

2 minutes ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

opium related? <perk> j/k! although the idea of an opium den has always intrigued me...

It does have a sort of romantic thing to it. You see those pictures of guys with majestic moustaches smoking those long pipes with concubines chilling in the crib wit dem. i'm livin' on chinese rocks everything I had is in hoc

[AxlsFavoriteRose]

Just now, wasted said:

It does have a sort of romantic thing to it. You see those pictures of guys with majestic moustaches smoking those long pipes with concubines chilling in the crib wit dem. i'm livin' on chinese rocks everything I had is in hoc

LOL just tell me you don't get so wasted you've ended up eating filet of rat or something! 

[wasted]

3 minutes ago, AxlsFavoriteRose said:

LOL just tell me you don't get so wasted you've ended up eating filet of rat or something! 

Duck tongues and snake soup is my limit. Chicken's feet can run far away from me. If I see a sign "Best Dog in Town" I know I must have stumbled into Koreatown. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by wasted
KFC