I don't believe in CD2 with the old musicians

[Rovim]

No one is retiring. Axl is just going to tinker more until its perfect and slash will probably do his best to add his signature sound on mostly chinese era stuff. Robin and bucket solos could still be in if i understood what axl said in the china exchange. But his process is still slow as fuck and he will need to put some more work into it to incorporate slash and make it relevant thematically to this incarnation of guns.

[Night Drive Lonelinessl]

I'm frustrated nobody can get a straight answer or straight answers from Axl when it comes to CD2

[maynard]

There's an answer: CD2 doesn't exist. Axl has retired as an artist, he's a performer now. He won't create art anymore. It's the sad BRUTAL truth.

[Silent Jay]

We should get at least one unreleased track with Slash before SMK&C 3. 

[Night Drive Lonelinessl]

do any of the current band members besides Axl have anything to say about CD2?

[Rovim]

33 minutes ago, Night Drive Lonelinessl said:

do any of the current band members besides Axl have anything to say about CD2?

Richard said not too long ago axl has 3 albums worth of material in the vault.

[Night Drive Lonelinessl]

wow. what's Axl waiting for?

[maynard]

11 hours ago, Kenan said:

The biggest problem with the album is the fact Slash and Duff and the old members weren't featured on it.

Which affected the quality of the music, the biggest factor for it not being as successful as expected, despite it using the GNR name. Axl's solo album Chinese Democracy is very bad. It's shame Guns n' Roses are doing covers of Axl's solo album this tour.

[BorderlineCrazy]

5 minutes ago, Night Drive Lonelinessl said:

wow. what's Axl waiting for?

Probably waiting for China's democracy 

[Rovim]

52 minutes ago, Night Drive Lonelinessl said:

wow. what's Axl w

It's a good questhad To me it seems like he won't compromise artistically and he had A problem at least until now of letting it go and stop over tinkering. The other half of 

The problem imo is that he wants a release of another album to be cane a huge success with promotion and strippers. Good news is a lot is already recorded and slash and duff liked the vault stuff and they bring more artistic and financial options to the table. Bad news is axl is still gonna delay until he is certain he cannot improve the tunes anymore and it',s time.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Rovim

[Kenan]

3 hours ago, maynard said:

Which affected the quality of the music, the biggest factor for it not being as successful as expected, despite it using the GNR name. Axl's solo album Chinese Democracy is very bad. It's shame Guns n' Roses are doing covers of Axl's solo album this tour.

I don't think it affected quality of the recrord at all and that is not what I was referring to. In my opinion, it affected the "PR" aspect of the album and gave it from the get-go the "GNR albume that has no Slash and Duff on it" label which affected the sales and overall reception of the record.

[Apollo]

Lol, people are still blaming CD's sales totals on a lack of promotion and marketing? The MOST ANTICIPATED album of all time....suffered from a lack of promotion and marketing?

I saw TV commercials for CD. I saw newspaper ads for CD. Every music publication and website reviewed CD. A CD song was featured in a summer blockbuster movie starring Leonardo Di Caprio. A CD song was featured on one of the most popular video games in the world. Myspace let people play the entire album for free and it received millions of downloads/listens.

Lack of promotion and marketing?

CD received more marketing and promotion than 99.999% of albums released in 2008.

Anybody who was willing to pay $16 for a Guns n Roses album KNEW that CD was released.  There aren't millions of GnR fans out there sitting around clueless that GnR released CD. Because that's essentially what people are implying by harping on the low sales being because of lack of promotion and marketing. In today's world, with the internet, it's ludicrous to imply that several million GnR fans still don't know about CD's release.

******

Do we know for sure that Slash is back in GnR as a full time gig? He is an artist that loves to share new music with fans. Is he going to sh*tcan Myles and that band completely? Or play with both bands?  Would Axl really hire another guitar player (or two) and continue on with GnR without Slash? None of us know for sure that Slash is back full time with GnR. You could imagine that Duff probably is.

I'd really like to see Axl release CD2 in time for Christmas. Just put it out there for his fans to enjoy. I would be gloriously happy if it was basically CD part two. Another album full of songs like Better/SOD/Twat/Catcher - I'll take that all day, any day.

Then in the summer of 2017, when Izzy and Adler are back in GnR and they do a real reunion for the 30th anniversary of Appetite...release a GnR album that was written by the classic line-up.

Two Axl Rose albums in the next year? Amazing to think about.

[MisterNo]

1 hour ago, Apollo said:

 

Do we know for sure that Slash is back in GnR as a full time gig?

We don't know for sure, but it could go that way. What Axl was saying in China exchange and what Slash told to Kramer goes to proof Slash could be there full time.

But, they will all have to comromise and play nice to get it done. The thing is, everobody in GNR seems more mature now, ready to settle the differences and keep this going for a while. when you look what Axl was saying few years a go about Slash, and now they are on the same stage together.

If you ask me, everything is possible. At some point (if they keep the momentum going) they will probably be pressured by the record company to make an album. So chances are small for all fresh material, because that would take time, a lot of time. So if they release new material, it would probably be a mix of CD leftovers, maybe some older GNR stuf and Slash's & Duff's material. Maybe a few new songs but probably not.

 

I'd say chances for GNR are:

25 % GNR releases new album after the tour with Slash

25 % GNR continues after the tour, Slash goes away and Axl works another decade on new album that may, or may not be released

20 % GNR ends with NITL tour

20 % GNR releases no new material after NITL, touring around from time to time

10% for everything else (i.e. 2017 AFD reunion)

 

But it's not an educated guess, with GNR all bets are off and everything is possible. NITL tour goes to prove that.

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by MisterNo

[Rovim]

Slash can finally put his mark again on a guns album. I even think he'll agree to shared guitar solos with the best unreleased material. So it's up to axl which leads me to conclude there is no reason for it to never come out. Axl said again that he wants to put out more guns albums. It will just take time as usual but im pretty sure he will try to make it happen in like 4 to 5 years i hope.

[Night Drive Lonelinessl]

these are great ideas. we don't have confidence Axl will pull the trigger. I don't think CD would have sold better if it had Slash and Duff on it. It was going up against Kanye West or something. CD debut at #3 first week. Never hit #1. And disappeared off the charts. Radio had a bias against CD from the start. Which explains why the CD singles CD, Better, and Street of Dreams never caught fire. The reviewers had the same bias. CD never really had a shot to succeed. It was called the most anticipated rock album because it was Guns N' Roses. It had to be promoted like that. You couldn't call it Axl Rose and expect success. But CD2 should come out as intended. I don't get why Axl delays and delays it. Especially when in interviews that are documented Axl says the next Chinese CD is done!

[AxlCole]

Maybe they could release another 2 double album set and call them Use Your Illusion III and IV.

[guitarpatch]

1 hour ago, Night Drive Lonelinessl said:

these are great ideas. we don't have confidence Axl will pull the trigger. I don't think CD would have sold better if it had Slash and Duff on it. It was going up against Kanye West or something. CD debut at #3 first week. Never hit #1. And disappeared off the charts. Radio had a bias against CD from the start. Which explains why the CD singles CD, Better, and Street of Dreams never caught fire. The reviewers had the same bias. CD never really had a shot to succeed. It was called the most anticipated rock album because it was Guns N' Roses. It had to be promoted like that. You couldn't call it Axl Rose and expect success. But CD2 should come out as intended. I don't get why Axl delays and delays it. Especially when in interviews that are documented Axl says the next Chinese CD is done!

Yes, Chinese Democracy debuted at #3 and was released as the same week as Kanye West's 808's & Heartbreak. Although, that probably didn't have much effect on each other, except for placement on the charts. The thing people have to remember is that physical albums were already way on the decline by that point. Comparing sales figures from 2008 to 2001 let alone 1991 would look bad for any artist. Everyone except for a few artists for probably a decade had huge drop offs in numbers come week 2 +3. You're talking about pre-streaming / torrents and illegal downloads part of music industry history. The better gauge to tell how popular an album was is to look at the illegal download numbers that some services provided back then. That's a better gauge of popularity that most everyone in the industry followed.  Not as much album sales and radio spins (which the label has to support and pay promo guys for them to break). A thing to remember, that with all the leaks that lead up to the release over the years, a lot people figured they had already heard it (even if those versions weren't close to the finalized product or contain live songs not on the album such as Silkworms). 

As far as the next album, it's not on just Axl to decide. Universal has to accept it as well. As some know, they can reject an album for any number of reasons. Especially if they felt that Slash and Duff were on the verge of rejoining. For instance, why waste a release on a contract when those guys would certainly provide more revenue opportunity? Seems like a risk to take (which is what people assume they did when they rejected the album in 2000ish) Also, I'd assume Axl & the band would want some reassurance in writing about the marketing plan/promo and possibly an advance depending upon what murky financial agreement took place during the last record. Team of lawyers on that end for sure.  

I'm in of the opinion that the Best Buy deal was a double edge sword. An exclusive was the only way for that album to come out and to make Universal felt comfortable at that point. This was really the 1st major exclusive Best Buy had. The problem was that what made the Walmart exclusives work was set up around their sheer size of stores, foot traffic (they sell everything including groceries), and the number of stores compared to Best Buy at the time. The business models aren't comparable to think the same strategy would work for them. Not exactly equal representation on that front.

The most important issue was that Best Buy anticipated more help from Universal on the marketing front. However once the check cleared, Universal wiped their hands clean of the project and had no incentive what so ever to pump any more funds into that album. They had recouped and it was finally over. It was all on Best Buy to sell off the product on their own (as the deal specified there were no returns), and they were left trying to market the most anticipated rock album on their own. The problem was they had no idea what they were doing, because they had never done it before! In the end, Jimmy Iovine and Irving Azoff looked like heroes and Universal recouped on their biggest investment that they probably wanted to write off at that point. It all came at the expense of a retailer trying to compete and more importantly Guns N' Roses future career and well being. There's a reason why they didn't tour until 2009/2010. They got taken advantage of and knew it. However, that's the price you pay when that much $ got pumped into the project. It got to the point that there was no way out for any party to feel comfortable without taking a loss. They needed a sucker and Iovine and Azoff saw them coming from a mile away. 

[Night Drive Lonelinessl]

but when everybody already has a pre determined bias against CD like radio stations and reviewers did you have a hard time succeeding. and CD had a hard time succeeding right from the get go because of bias

[guitarpatch]

34 minutes ago, Night Drive Lonelinessl said:

but when everybody already has a pre determined bias against CD like radio stations and reviewers did you have a hard time succeeding. and CD had a hard time succeeding right from the get go because of bias

I wouldn't say Chinese Democracy wasn't a success. Did it live up to some outrageous expectation as the savior of rock, or one of the best albums ever made? Well, no and it would never be successful in that thought, even if Slash and Duff were brought in. 

As far as bias, media only reacts the way the public wants them to react. How and why did this happen? Who gave them that kind of thought to slant coverage in that manner? Was it Axl's action/non action? Maybe. Was it 10 years of former members opening their mouths to slant their stories for their own well being? Perhaps. Argue what you want, but that's the basis of most of it on that end. 

Radio plays whatever labels want to promote the most. If they really want to push a song, they will throw endless $ to promo people to get it played/hyped. Radio will also tend to be more forgiving if they are being pushed by outside forces. Especially during that time. I haven't heard much on the effort from UMG on that end. There wasn't much follow up or willingness to try and break those songs. Mainly because there was no financial reward for UMG in doing so. Best Buy could have done that, but they had no clue what they were doing and no team to help direct it. 

[maynard]

10 hours ago, Kenan said:

I don't think it affected quality of the recrord at all and that is not what I was referring to. In my opinion, it affected the "PR" aspect of the album and gave it from the get-go the "GNR albume that has no Slash and Duff on it" label which affected the sales and overall reception of the record.

Nope, it affected the quality of the music. It sounded very bad with the overprocessed guitars and mindless shredding from Ron Thal. Remember it was released in 2008, people simply didn't care about GNR that much, let alone who was and who was not in the band. What really affected sales and reception was the lack of quality from the music in this Axl solo album.

[guitarpatch]

1 hour ago, maynard said:

Nope, it affected the quality of the music. It sounded very bad with the overprocessed guitars and mindless shredding from Ron Thal. Remember it was released in 2008, people simply didn't care about GNR that much, let alone who was and who was not in the band. What really affected sales and reception was the lack of quality from the music in this Axl solo album.

All of which is just your opinion (except that it was an Axl solo record, that is not true no matter how you feel). As you said, a Slash/Duff /Axl record probably wouldn't have moved the needle much more publicly either. Truth is that people had moved on from GNR in the United States as it relates to accepting new music no matter who was in the band. People listened to Coldplay, Kanye, and repetitive rock like Kings of Leon and the Foo Fighters. Slash playing long solos in the middle of 6 min new songs probably wouldn't have connected with the masses much.  That being said, I don't care or make my musical preferences depending upon how much an album sells or who else likes it. As a guitar player, I think that album rocks on that front and the playing is top notch. The songs are also there for me at least for the most part, and I find them enjoyable. There are many people who feel the same way, and that's all that matters from a music perspective. 

From a music business perspective, It's my opinion that GNR and Best Buy got screwed between the deal w UMG and the leaks that happened over the years. The leaks erased much of the curiosity years beforehand as opposed to a few weeks like other leaked albums. That album was in no way fresh in people's minds. It had been torrented to death almost a year beforehand. The album was also not as convenient to buy due to there being only 300-400 Best Buy stores nationally. You had to travel a distance out of your way just to buy a record in 2008? Disaster in waiting....   UMG also did the bare min promotionally as they had no further obligations for the record to do well, as they would not make another cent if they sold 3 mil more copies. Finally, Best Buy had never done a full marketing campaign for an album and had never worked singles to radio. The band also chose not to do much promo or even tour to support the release until almost a year later. It's a different beast of a release to compare to just about anything.  My opinion from working 10+ yrs in the industry on the marketing side. 

To claim that the success of the album came down to your perceived "quality" of the songs is a bit naive. There were many factors in play on that front. That's even to suggest to know what the measuring stick for successful even was in this situation.  UMG thought it to be a home run for sure. Best Buy, not so much. GNR went around world multiple times playing those songs. It's all relative to each party. 

[bigpoop]

Yeah let's do a sequel to an album nobody fucking liked in the first place. Anybody that believes CD2 is an actual thing is hallucinating.

[Night Drive Lonelinessl]

I believe CD2 is an actual thing. Axl's stated many times he's recorded the album

[maynard]

1 hour ago, guitarpatch said:

All of which is just your opinion (except that it was an Axl solo record, that is not true no matter how you feel). As you said, a Slash/Duff /Axl record probably wouldn't have moved the needle much more publicly either. Truth is that people had moved on from GNR in the United States as it relates to accepting new music no matter who was in the band. People listened to Coldplay, Kanye, and repetitive rock like Kings of Leon and the Foo Fighters. Slash playing long solos in the middle of 6 min new songs probably wouldn't have connected with the masses much.  That being said, I don't care or make my musical preferences depending upon how much an album sells or who else likes it. As a guitar player, I think that album rocks on that front and the playing is top notch. The songs are also there for me at least for the most part, and I find them enjoyable. There are many people who feel the same way, and that's all that matters from a music perspective. 

From a music business perspective, It's my opinion that GNR and Best Buy got screwed between the deal w UMG and the leaks that happened over the years. The leaks erased much of the curiosity years beforehand as opposed to a few weeks like other leaked albums. That album was in no way fresh in people's minds. It had been torrented to death almost a year beforehand. The album was also not as convenient to buy due to there being only 300-400 Best Buy stores nationally. You had to travel a distance out of your way just to buy a record in 2008? Disaster in waiting....   UMG also did the bare min promotionally as they had no further obligations for the record to do well, as they would not make another cent if they sold 3 mil more copies. Finally, Best Buy had never done a full marketing campaign for an album and had never worked singles to radio. The band also chose not to do much promo or even tour to support the release until almost a year later. It's a different beast of a release to compare to just about anything.  My opinion from working 10+ yrs in the industry on the marketing side. 

To claim that the success of the album came down to your perceived "quality" of the songs is a bit naive. There were many factors in play on that front. That's even to suggest to know what the measuring stick for successful even was in this situation.  UMG thought it to be a home run for sure. Best Buy, not so much. GNR went around world multiple times playing those songs. It's all relative to each party. 

Oh yeah, rock albums were selling that much but CD had the potential to sell much more and the label did what they could to promote it. Let's remember it was Axl who went mute upon its release. Not a single word from his mouth to promote his solo mangum opus.

It IS TRUE that this is Axl's solo album. He owned the name Guns N' Roses, he hired musicians to help him write songs, he called all the shots, he was the boss, there was no discussion, it was people taking Axl's orders. Do you know Nine Inch Nails? Do you consider Trent Reznor a band? No right? Why would you consider Axl a band? Hopefully I could clear things up for you with my post. Of course I don't want you to stop enjoying Axl's solo album called Chinese Democracy. I just hope you are aware it's a solo album from his solo project. Like Nine Inch Nails is.

[guitarpatch]

18 minutes ago, maynard said:

Oh yeah, rock albums were selling that much but CD had the potential to sell much more and the label did what they could to promote it. Let's remember it was Axl who went mute upon its release. Not a single word from his mouth to promote his solo mangum opus.

It IS TRUE that this is Axl's solo album. He owned the name Guns N' Roses, he hired musicians to help him write songs, he called all the shots, he was the boss, there was no discussion, it was people taking Axl's orders. Do you know Nine Inch Nails? Do you consider Trent Reznor a band? No right? Why would you consider Axl a band? Hopefully I could clear things up for you with my post. Of course I don't want you to stop enjoying Axl's solo album called Chinese Democracy. I just hope you are aware it's a solo album from his solo project. Like Nine Inch Nails is.

The label did nothing to promote it, nor should they under that deal. They got their money, and would not profit any more from any type of marketing/promotion. If Azoff was really looking out for the band's best interests, he would of forced UMG to do something about that. I would assume Axl's silence showed his displeasure with how all that went down. You can question if that was self-sabotaging or not. 

Doesn't matter who's in the band, who's under contract, or who has "final absolute say". Lots of band's have members that are employees and have hierarchies. They all work differently.  Doesn't make it any less of a band. The name on the album is Guns N' Roses, so that's what it's called, end of story. Trent Reznor decides what to call his group or project. Not me. I defer to the artist in how it wants to represent its art.  Who am I to say what is and what isn't?

Of course, you are more than free to not enjoy a Guns N' Roses album 

Edited August 9, 2016 by guitarpatch