They should play something from Slash

[DieselDaisy]

59 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

except for a few fans who never coped with "NuGuns" the rest of the world had no problems accepting it.

Really? The majority of the world had massive problems with it in my opinion.

[maynard]

Yeah, it's written GUNS N ROSES on the cover of the album. Trent Reznor also releases his records with NINE INCH NAILS instead of his name. Axl copied his model. His solo album was released under his solo name GUNS N ROSES. The CD era GUNS N ROSES was not a band, it was Axl calling himself GUNS N ROSES, following Trent's model.

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

No, nowhere have I given a definition that supports the ludicrisy that when Guns N' Roses played concerts in 2001-2014 it was actually covering itself. I see what you are trying to do, you are trying to argue that "nuGuns" was a different band and then, per the normal definition of what a cover song is, it must have been covering. But I don't agree with the notion that nuGuns was such a different band. Neither do wikipedia, setlist.fm, the band itself, etc. which all agree that, although changed in its lineup, the Guns N' Roses that existed between 2001 and 2014 was just a new version of Guns N' Roses. Not very much liked, but still Guns N' Roses.

Now you will probably revert to the technicality that assumingly the legal entity of GN'R was dissolved at some time, and hence, technically speaking, the band was dissolved before being reinstated and there being no unbroken link of existence. That might be true but it doesn't mean that the band wasn't resurrected and hence started exisiting again. Again, except for a few fans who never coped with "NuGuns" the rest of the world had no problems accepting it. It is uncontested. It is legally true. It is accepted by the music industry, by the music press, by media in general. Except for a minority of people who out of spite refused to acknowledge it.

I know you won't agree with me, but that is just how it is.

You can flip it around and turn it as you want it to be all night long but fact is, regardless of the name, other people made the music. It's simple as that. 

[guitarpatch]

2 minutes ago, maynard said:

Yeah, it's written GUNS N ROSES on the cover of the album. Trent Reznor also releases his records with NINE INCH NAILS instead of his name. Axl copied his model. His solo album was released under his solo name GUNS N ROSES. The CD era GUNS N ROSES was not a band, it was Axl calling himself GUNS N ROSES, following Trent's model.

You must had some very in depth conversations with Axl for him to open up and tell you these things. Otherwise, Guns N' Roses is whatever is performed and released under Guns N' Roses. Just because some people don't like other versions of the band, doesn't mean it's anything less. You can bitch and moan all you like to try and rationalize it in your head, but it will never be truthful. 

Also those who say they are performing again under the old partnership, where is your proof? Would it make it any less if it weren't? 

[Free Bird]

2 hours ago, Juliette said:

hhahaa a "little " detail, nop? Axl is the owner of the name, he has the rights (When Slash and Duff sued him for the licensy,etc they lost), for that reason the "Nuguns"  (like you call the band in that period) is GNR like it or not.

He is like 60-70% of GNR. Axl is the only irreplaceable member.

Right, he is the owner of the name. He doesn't own the (original) band. He quit the band and created another band with different people and since he's the owner of the name he named the new group GNR out of financial reasons. So no, NuGuns is called GNR but isn't the real GNR.

Detailed enough?

And what's these numbers? 60-70%? Is that a fact? Sorry I didn't heard of it before. LOL

 

[maynard]

4 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

You must had some very in depth conversations with Axl for him to open up and tell you these things. Otherwise, Guns N' Roses is whatever is performed and released under Guns N' Roses. Just because some people don't like other versions of the band, doesn't mean it's anything less. You can bitch and moan all you like to try and rationalize it in your head, but it will never be truthful. 

Also those who say they are performing again under the old partnership, where is your proof? Would it make it any less if it weren't? 

I've never spoken to Axl. There's nothing to open up about. I guess you are a new fan and don't know how CD was created and released. A brief summary: It was Axl giving all the orders. It was Axl writing all the stuff. It was Axl paying people to play instruments. It was Axl copying and pasting those recordings to fit his solo vision. It was Axl's decision to release it. There was no discussion with any other musician involved. It was all Axl's work. It was Axl's solo album. IT IS EXACTLY HOW NIN WORKS FOR FUCKS SAKE. But hey.... If your fantasy world looks better with CD being made by a band of brothers, it's ok.  How's Santa Claus by the way?

Edited August 15, 2016 by maynard

[guitarpatch]

2 minutes ago, maynard said:

I've never spoken to Axl. There's nothing to open up about. I guess you are a new fan and don't know how CD was created and released. A brief summary: It was Axl giving all the orders. It was Axl writing all the stuff. It was Axl playing people to play instruments. It was Axl copying and pasting those recordings to fit his solo vision. It was Axl's decision to release it. There was no discussion with any other musician involved. It was all Axl's work. It was Axl's solo album. IT IS EXACTLY HOW NIN WORKS FOR FUCKS SAKE. But hey.... If your fantasy world looks better with CD being made by a band of brothers, it's ok.  How's Santa Claus by the way?

That is some impressive access to the band. To be in the studio with them for all those years, watching them make decisions, know exactly how they collaborate and operate. Must of been exciting times! Or you have no clue how they came about it.... There's no recipe in writing a song, though. No matter how it's created, it has no bearing on the name of band. 

BTW not a new fan at all. Saw them in Foxboro in 92 and Boston 93. 

[maynard]

Yeah, the hundreds of interviews of the hired musicians saying "It's up to Axl" 100 different times in a hundred different ways helped me a little to come up with this conclusion. It's a shame it makes you so sad and offended. lol.

[guitarpatch]

3 minutes ago, maynard said:

Yeah, the hundreds of interviews of the hired musicians saying "It's up to Axl" 100 different times in a hundred different ways helped me a little to come up with this conclusion. It's a shame it makes you so sad and offended. lol.

Doesn't offend me. Axl could sell the name tomorrow to a bunch of teletubbies. If they make a record under Guns N Roses then it's a GNR record. Nothing I can do about it to not make it exist. I can choose not to listen or support it though. 

Does it offend you? 

[StrangerInThisTown]

It seems you guys (mainly directed at SoulMonster and Diesel) are not taking into account in your argument 2 very vital things, because it comes down to this:

LEGALLY, what it says on all the papers, album covers, news and billboards and advertisements, it is Guns N Roses (even when Axl was the only original member). Thus not making nuguns playing GNR songs, "covers".

In SPIRIT, it was not GNR. A glorified cover band and almost as far removed from GNR as you could get. Differentiating between these 2 things would stop this circlejerk of an argument of what is a cover and what is not.

Which would make GNR right now playing a VR song, legally, a cover. But in spirit, 2 main members of VR are present, not really making it "a cover".

Edited August 15, 2016 by StrangerInThisTown

[janrichmond]

3 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

It seems you guys (mainly directed at SoulMonster and Diesel) are not taking into account in your argument 2 very vital things, because it comes down to this:

LEGALLY, what it says on all the papers, album covers, news and billboards and advertisements, it is Guns N Roses (even when Axl was the only original member). Thus not making nuguns playing GNR songs, "covers".

In SPIRIT, it was not GNR. A glorified cover band and almost as far removed from GNR as you could get. Differentiating between these 2 things would stop this circlejerk of an argument of what is a cover and what is not.

Which would make GNR right now playing a VR song, legally, a cover. But in spirit, 2 main members of VR are present, not really making it "a cover".

Now this makes sense 

[Free Bird]

6 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

It seems you guys (mainly directed at SoulMonster and Diesel) are not taking into account in your argument 2 very vital things, because it comes down to this:

LEGALLY, what it says on all the papers, album covers, news and billboards and advertisements, it is Guns N Roses (even when Axl was the only original member). Thus not making nuguns playing GNR songs, "covers".

In SPIRIT, it was not GNR. A glorified cover band and almost as far removed from GNR as you could get. Differentiating between these 2 things would stop this circlejerk of an argument of what is a cover and what is not.

Which would make GNR right now playing a VR song, legally, a cover. But in spirit, 2 main members of VR are present, not really making it "a cover".

You forget the fact that LEGALLY Guns n Roses is Axl, Slash and Duff.

NuGuns is another band with the same name and the same singer. That is a fact! But most of the people don't know about it and some just ignore that.

[StrangerInThisTown]

11 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Kinda OT, kinda not but it irritates me to no end when I look at Jack White setlists and they list songs like Seven Nation Army as "White Stripes cover". Every setlist I've seen on sites like setlist.fm are like that. It'll be like:

Fell In Love With A Girl (White Stripes cover)
Blunderbuss
Three Women
Hotel Yorba (White Stripes cover)
Lazaretto
Alone In My Home
Love Interuption
Hello Operator (White Stripes cover)

...and so on. It just irritates the shit out of me. Stripes were a 2 piece band for christssake, and JWIII wrote all the songs. So because he's playing his own songs with someone else on drums it's a cover??

To add to my previous post, from my understanding, what is being considered a cover is being dictated by which artist legally goes on stage and performs. With this method nothing else other than the legal performers name is being taken into account, and you end up with ridiculous situations like the one you just described. Just the way it is I guess.

11 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

You forget the fact that LEGALLY Guns n Roses is Axl, Slash and Duff.

NuGuns is another band with the same name and the same singer. That is a fact! But most of the people don't know about it and some just ignore that.

Sorry for not being clear enough, I was talking about nuguns only, (1997 - 2014)

Edited August 15, 2016 by StrangerInThisTown

[DieselDaisy]

28 minutes ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

It seems you guys (mainly directed at SoulMonster and Diesel) are not taking into account in your argument 2 very vital things, because it comes down to this:

LEGALLY, what it says on all the papers, album covers, news and billboards and advertisements, it is Guns N Roses (even when Axl was the only original member). Thus not making nuguns playing GNR songs, "covers".

In SPIRIT, it was not GNR. A glorified cover band and almost as far removed from GNR as you could get. Differentiating between these 2 things would stop this circlejerk of an argument of what is a cover and what is not.

Which would make GNR right now playing a VR song, legally, a cover. But in spirit, 2 main members of VR are present, not really making it "a cover".

Listen, I would be willing to settle on a compromise here for songs like 'Slither', a 'part cover/part original' or a 'quasi-cover' or something else but Soul Monster insists on a song like 'Slither' (assuming GN'R ever play it), a song with a clear and inherent connection with two band members on stage (Slash and Duff), being lumped in the same category as stuff like 'The Seeker' and 'Live And Let Die'.

[StrangerInThisTown]

 

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Listen, I would be willing to settle on a compromise here for songs like 'Slither', a 'part cover/part original' or a 'quasi-cover' or something else but Soul Monster insists on a song like 'Slither' (assuming GN'R ever play it), a song with a clear and inherent connection with two band members on stage (Slash and Duff), being lumped in the same category as stuff like 'The Seeker' and 'Live And Let Die'.

If GNR go on stage and perform it now, it will legally just be a cover as much as The Seeker. But yes, in a way it is something more than a cover and it does not belong in that same category if you think about it. SoulMonster was mainly talking from a legal perspective as I see it.

Edited August 15, 2016 by StrangerInThisTown

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Really? The majority of the world had massive problems with it in my opinion.

In the alternate dimension of Axl fans, nu guns was lighting the world on fire for the last 15 years with Chinese Democracy.

In the real world of course, nu guns was an utter embarrassment and failure. No one on planet earth cares about that era except for about 10 or so people on the internet.

[RussTCB]

Discussion needs more extrapolation. 

[Juliette]

3 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Right, he is the owner of the name. He doesn't own the (original) band. He quit the band and created another band with different people and since he's the owner of the name he named the new group GNR out of financial reasons. So no, NuGuns is called GNR but isn't the real GNR.

That`s your imagination. An important percent of people associate GNR only with Axl, believe it or not - NO AXL: NO GNR-. The proof of that is the band continued performing well in all this period-despite the absence of Slash and Duff. I´m from South America, they come here few years ago and was sellout in the majory of the countries. (Of course all that people know it that was only Axl as original member).

 

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

In the alternate dimension of Axl fans, nu guns was lighting the world on fire for the last 15 years with Chinese Democracy.

In the real world of course, nu guns was an utter embarrassment and failure. No one on planet earth cares about that era except for about 10 or so people on the internet.

Well, a lot of people bought the CD (6.5 million or so, worldwide) not 10 person only 

Embarrassment? I think many of the gigs in that period were truly great. Must see some on youtube (in 2010, in 2006: am Ring in Germany), 2012 London, etc. GNR had great musicians in that period - Buckethead, Brian Mantía, Bumblefoot, Finck, Dizzy, Fortus- is so annoying the way most of you underestimated them.

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by Juliette

[maynard]

4 hours ago, guitarpatch said:

Doesn't offend me. Axl could sell the name tomorrow to a bunch of teletubbies. If they make a record under Guns N Roses then it's a GNR record. Nothing I can do about it to not make it exist. I can choose not to listen or support it though. 

Does it offend you? 

They who? Axl and hired hands? That's Axl's NIN. Axl, Slash and Duff? GNR.

As a music fan, I feel offended when people can't tell the difference between a band and a solo effort, yeah. It pisses me off.

[maynard]

6 million people bought CD worldwide? Holy extrapolation Batman!

[Nosaj Thing]

Guns N' Roses last album of original material was a double-record called Use Your Illusion I & II, their last performance was in Argentina 1993, and the band stopped existing somewhere in the mid 90s.  Luckily for us, fans, the group reformed earlier this year.

One would think that in a Gn'R forum there's no need to mention that but...  

[Nosaj Thing]

2 hours ago, Juliette said:

That`s your imagination. An important percent of people associate GNR only with Axl, believe it or not - NO AXL: NO GNR-. The proof of that is the band continued performing well in all this period-despite the absence of Slash and Duff. I´m from South America, they come here few years ago and was sellout in the majory of the countries. (Of course all that people know it that was only Axl as original member).

 That's your imagination... or your poor English skills.  A very, very small percentage of fans think Axl is Gn'R.

Axl's solo cover band that he unashamedly called Gn'R became a vegas act circus, if we were to think that his band was doing "well", we wouldn't have Slash and Duff - real Gn'R members - working with Axl again.

Finally, I live in South America, too, and your claim of the majority of gigs being sold-out is 100% false.    Do your research, I even made a thread years ago with the exact numbers from 100% reliable sources.  Look it up, and get an education.

Also, your claim of "all the people" knowing Axl was the sole original member is false.  Ever heard of a 'casual fan'?

[Nosaj Thing]

2 hours ago, Juliette said:

Well, a lot of people bought the CD (6.5 million or so, worldwide) not 10 person only 

Chinese Democracy never sold 6.5 million copies.  It sold around 3-3.5 million, which, to be honest, is a lot - considering that garbage album is an unlistenable piece of shit.

[Free Bird]

4 hours ago, Juliette said:

That`s your imagination. An important percent of people associate GNR only with Axl, believe it or not - NO AXL: NO GNR-. The proof of that is the band continued performing well in all this period-despite the absence of Slash and Duff. I´m from South America, they come here few years ago and was sellout in the majory of the countries. (Of course all that people know it that was only Axl as original member).

 

Well, a lot of people bought the CD (6.5 million or so, worldwide) not 10 person only 

Embarrassment? I think many of the gigs in that period were truly great. Must see some on youtube (in 2010, in 2006: am Ring in Germany), 2012 London, etc. GNR had great musicians in that period - Buckethead, Brian Mantía, Bumblefoot, Finck, Dizzy, Fortus- is so annoying the way most of you underestimated them.

 

No dude, that's not my imagination, that's a fact. I didn't make this up. Axl quit Guns so he could start a new band.

An important percent of people?

The most important percent of people didn't even know NuGuns existed.

And them who knew cared less year after year dude. 

Sorry to ask, but, are you this guy or this girl with the Ashba tattoo on your back?

That would explain a lot.

[DieselDaisy]

6.5 mill? I'd be shocked if it did 3 million.