Liam Gallagher signs with Warner Bros for one album

[Len Cnut]

8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Two words.

Easy Rider.

Just about every decent filmmaker that has come about post punk or lived through that generation has been massively influenced by punk, I mean Lindsay Anderson, Derek Jarman, Julien Temple in the field of music, or Martin Scorsese or Jim Jarmusch or Ken Loach.

[DR DOOM]

Just wish he'd get back together with Billie Joe and Tre to make one last great punker record.

[ZoSoRose]

Novels solo stuff is very good but these walkers should still reunite.

Beady eye seemed to tank, eh?

[Słash]

 

[Len Cnut]

Sacha Baron Cohen stopped being funny about 15 years ago.  An Oxford educated rich boy who makes his living out of taking the piss out of poor people and foreigners.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Len Cnut

[JeanGenie]

Liam is great

 

[DR DOOM]

Liam's a grade A fuckwit.

[DieselDaisy]

9 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Just about every decent filmmaker that has come about post punk or lived through that generation has been massively influenced by punk, I mean Lindsay Anderson, Derek Jarman, Julien Temple in the field of music, or Martin Scorsese or Jim Jarmusch or Ken Loach.

Scorsese? Scorsese is the quintessential hippy filmmaker. Woodstock? The Last Waltz?

Easy Rider instigated 'New Hollywood', the 'brats', Coppola, Scorsese, Lucas (who originally wanted to make weird arthouse films). You know what was a big hit on their film campuses? Magical Mystery Tour! They were probably the only people who were watching this film after it originally aired.

[Len Cnut]

29 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Scorsese? Scorsese is the quintessential hippy filmmaker. Woodstock? The Last Waltz?

Easy Rider instigated 'New Hollywood', the 'brats', Coppola, Scorsese, Lucas (who originally wanted to make weird arthouse films). You know what was a big hit on their film campuses? Magical Mystery Tour! They were probably the only people who were watching this film after it originally aired.

Scorcese is in no way shape or form the quintessential hippie filmmaker, quite the opposite actually, even in his pre-punk work.  This is the guy who loved punk so much he got The Clash in on Kings of Comedy...to just stand there   He even took influence from their music in the creation of the fight scenes in Raging Bull (what the fuck he meant by that I still dont get but it is on record).  The New York that he made his name photographing was the New York in which New York punk was birthed.  

Easy Rider is an amazing film, one of my favourites of all time actually.  But see my point wasn't that the hippie generation had no influence on film, they clearly did...but its direct influence effected what...10, maybe 15 if I'm being generous, years of cinema.  You still see the mark of punk in cinema, particularly independent cinema.

And then further on into music, there ain't been a big band since punk that didn't cite punk as a MAJOR influence, The Stone Roses, The Smiths, U2 (unfortunately).  When you listen to rock music for the last 30 years what do you hear more of, punk or hippie prog ideals?  Dance Music, what can be said to be the only true revolution in popular music since reggae, that exists because punk and a lot of what came after punk with post punk, made that possible.  Even hip hop, in its inception, drew massively from punk.

Or look at fashion, Christ, Viv Westwood is the pre-emminent clothes designer of our times, she got her start in punk working with Malcolm McLaren, just look on the streets around you, the haircut, the dress of the day, whats it more influenced by, punk or hippies?  I mean Christ, 30 years after the fact mohawks came in vogue.  Now this stuff might all be a load of bollocks to you, the fashion aspect but we're talking about a lasting effect on culture right, for better or worse.  

Even art, people like Banksy could've NEVER existed without punk...or Tracey Emin or Damien Hirst, the list is endless.  

Edited August 29, 2016 by Len Cnut

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, DR DOOM said:

Liam's a grade A fuckwit.

Well...yes actually   But then i feel that way about most of humanity!  Stack Liam up against, well, just about any personality in popular rock music since the mid 90s and I'll take Liam all day long.  

[Dazey]

4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Scorcese is in no way shape or form the quintessential hippie filmmaker, quite the opposite actually, even in his pre-punk work.  This is the guy who loved punk so much he got The Clash in on Kings of Comedy...to just stand there   He even took influence from their music in the creation of the fight scenes in Raging Bull (what the fuck he meant by that I still dont get but it is on record).  The New York that he made his name photographing was the New York in which New York punk was birthed.  

Easy Rider is an amazing film, one of my favourites of all time actually.  But see my point wasn't that the hippie generation had no influence on film, they clearly did...but its direct influence effected what...10, maybe 15 if I'm being generous, years of cinema.  You still see the mark of punk in cinema, particularly independent cinema.

And then further on into music, there ain't been a big band since punk that didn't cite punk as a MAJOR influence, The Stone Roses, The Smiths, U2 (unfortunately).  When you listen to rock music for the last 30 years what do you hear more of, punk or hippie prog ideals?  Dance Music, what can be said to be the only true revolution in popular music since reggae, that exists because punk and a lot of what came after punk with post punk, made that possible.  Even hip hop, in its inception, drew massively from punk.

Or look at fashion, Christ, Viv Westwood is the pre-emminent clothes designer of our times, she got her start in punk working with Malcolm McLaren, just look on the streets around you, the haircut, the dress of the day, whats it more influenced by, punk or hippies?  I mean Christ, 30 years after the fact mohawks came in vogue.  Now this stuff might all be a load of bollocks to you, the fashion aspect but we're talking about a lasting effect on culture right, for better or worse.  

Even art, people like Banksy could've NEVER existed without punk...or Tracey Emin or Damien Hirst, the list is endless.  

Tracy Emin and Damien Hirst? What a loss those two bellends would've been eh?

[Len Cnut]

2 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Tracy Emin and Damien Hirst? What a loss those two bellends would've been eh?

i fucking KNEW you would say that  this is why i had to stick the 'now a lot of this might seem a load of bollocks to you' disclaimer in there...cuz they do to me too but whatever way up you hold it they were a big noise in their field and are very punk influenced.  

In fact, alternative comedy from the 80s onwards, there's another cultural thing punk had a massive effect on.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Len Cnut

[Dazey]

19 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

i fucking KNEW you would say that  this is why i had to stick the 'now a lot of this might seem a load of bollocks to you' disclaimer in there...cuz they do to me too but whatever way up you hold it they were a big noise in their field and are very punk influenced. 

They were and are fucking shite is what they are!

[DieselDaisy]

42 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Scorcese is in no way shape or form the quintessential hippie filmmaker, quite the opposite actually, even in his pre-punk work.  This is the guy who loved punk so much he got The Clash in on Kings of Comedy...to just stand there   He even took influence from their music in the creation of the fight scenes in Raging Bull (what the fuck he meant by that I still dont get but it is on record).  The New York that he made his name photographing was the New York in which New York punk was birthed.  

Why are you refusing to acknowledge that the guy worked on Woodstock and Last Waltz, the two quintessential hippy concert films? He later on would direct films on The Stones and Dylan. Hippydom, its politics and culture, also fuels Oliver Stone's films (cf. The Doors and his two Vietnam films).

Hippy political culture influenced practically everything from civil rights, demilitarisation (i.e. 'Vietnam'), 'green' lifestyle choices and ethics, gender and sexual equality, drug awareness, etc. Hippy fashion, its flairs, long hair and tie-dyes, have made frequent revivals up until today. Hippy or quasi-hippy acts such as Lennon and The Beatles, Dylan, Neil Young and affiliated acts, The Doors, Hendrix, etc. are considered to be the very pinnacle of this rock music (don't shoot the messenger here, as, as you know, I prefer my 50's acts personally). Hippy concerts ushered in (not necessarily for the better) a new conception of live music, the festival, the arena/stadium tour, and the adjacent concert film. 

[Dazey]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Why are you refusing to acknowledge that the guy worked on Woodstock and Last Waltz, the two quintessential hippy concert films? He later on would direct films on The Stones and Dylan. Hippydom, its politics and culture, also fuels Oliver Stone's films (cf. The Doors and his two Vietnam films).

Hippy political culture influenced practically everything from civil rights, demilitarisation (i.e. 'Vietnam'), 'green' lifestyle choices and ethics, gender and sexual equality, drug awareness, etc. Hippy fashion, its flairs, long hair and tie-dyes, have made frequent revivals up until today. Hippy or quasi-hippy acts such as Lennon and The Beatles, Dylan, Neil Young and affiliated acts, The Doors, Hendrix, etc. are considered to be the very pinnacle of this rock music (don't shoot the messenger here, as, as you know, I prefer my 50's acts personally). Hippy concerts ushered in (not necessarily for the better) a new conception of live music, the festival, the arena/stadium tour, and the adjacent concert film. 

Irrespective of the rest of the discussion I've got to say that The Last Waltz is my favourite concert movie of all time. I named my daughter Evangeline after seeing Emmylou Harris in the DVD extras.

[Len Cnut]

34 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Why are you refusing to acknowledge that the guy worked on Woodstock and Last Waltz, the two quintessential hippy concert films? He later on would direct films on The Stones and Dylan. Hippydom, its politics and culture, also fuels Oliver Stone's films (cf. The Doors and his two Vietnam films).

Hippy political culture influenced practically everything from civil rights, demilitarisation (i.e. 'Vietnam'), 'green' lifestyle choices and ethics, gender and sexual equality, drug awareness, etc. Hippy fashion, its flairs, long hair and tie-dyes, have made frequent revivals up until today. Hippy or quasi-hippy acts such as Lennon and The Beatles, Dylan, Neil Young and affiliated acts, The Doors, Hendrix, etc. are considered to be the very pinnacle of this rock music (don't shoot the messenger here, as, as you know, I prefer my 50's acts personally). Hippy concerts ushered in (not necessarily for the better) a new conception of live music, the festival, the arena/stadium tour, and the adjacent concert film. 

Directing a documentary about woodstock doesnt make you the quintessential hippie director though, Oliver Stone i could buy that about but Scorcese?  What was hippy about his masterwork Taxi Driver then?  Christ, in that case Julien Temple has directed more about 60s bands like The Stones and The Kinks etc, is he a hippie director too?  You're just reaching with that one.  

[DieselDaisy]

18 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Directing a documentary about woodstock doesnt make you the quintessential hippie director though, Oliver Stone i could buy that about but Scorcese?  What was hippy about his masterwork Taxi Driver then?  Christ, in that case Julien Temple has directed more about 60s bands like The Stones and The Kinks etc, is he a hippie director too?  You're just reaching with that one.  

There is no getting around the fact that he grew up in the general zeitgeist of student campus hippydom, began his career at the very heart of hippydom (i.e. Woodstock), and that Scorsese remained close to that source material throughout his career. Were there other influences - certainly, most of all the Italian-American urban experience?

Also, if there was no Easy Rider, there is no conceivable way directors like Scorsese and Coppola could have gotten projects like Mean Streets and The Conversation off the ground.

[Len Cnut]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

There is no getting around the fact that he grew up in the general zeitgeist of student campus hippydom, began his career at the very heart of hippydom (i.e. Woodstock), and that Scorsese remained close to that source material throughout his career. Were there other influences - certainly, most of all the Italian-American urban experience?

None of that makes you a hippie director though.  John Waters grew up in that era too, is he a hippie director?  Or is he a reaction to that kinda stuff?

 

Quote

 

Also, if there was no Easy Rider, there is no conceivable way directors like Scorsese and Coppola could have gotten projects like Mean Streets and The Conversation off the ground.

 

Based on what exactly?
 

 Like this

[DieselDaisy]

9 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

None of that makes you a hippie director though.  John Waters grew up in that era too, is he a hippie director?  Or is he a reaction to that kinda stuff?

The guy is assistant director/editor on Woodstock the bloody film! He was in the trenches with the hippies, hauling camera through throngs of mud splattered flower children,

 

And who is it The Band, Dylan and Stones came calling when they wanted a director for their film? And he didn't merely 'grow up during that era'. His formative years were spent in New York film school where he was exposed to the prevalent teenage counter-culture. Did you know he made an anti-Vietnam short? There is no doubt that 1960s counter-culture had a huge impact on Martin Scorsese - no doubt whatsoever.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by DieselDaisy

[Len Cnut]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The guy is assistant director/editor on Woodstock the bloody film! He was in the trenches with the hippies, hauling camera through throngs of mud splattered flower children,

 

And who is it The Band, Dylan and Stones came calling when they wanted a director for their film? And he didn't merely 'grow up during that era'. His formative years were spent in New York film school where he was exposed to the prevalent teenage counter-culture. Did you know he made an anti-Vietnam short? There is no doubt that 1960s counter-culture had a huge impact on Martin Scorsese - no doubt whatsoever.

 

 

Again, the above does not make him a hippie director.  Oliver Stone you could say that for, Copolla definitely...but you're not coming up with much in regards to Scorcese being one.  And The Stones have been directed by many many people, this does not make them hippies.  In fact, if you watch any of the work Scorcese has done under his own flag, with creative control, there isn't much about it that can be pointed at as hippie, quite the opposite in fact.  He was more a 50s rock n roll man in that sense actually, part of why he loved punk as he did was because 'they took you back to the excitement of hearing rock n roll for the first time'.  

Wheres the hippieness in Taxi Driver, in Mean Streets, in Raging Bull, in any of his work where he wasn't just a guy trying to get up the ladder?  The Rolling Stones, Dylan, there is a lot more to them than hippiedom, in fact you could argue they were completely the opposite of hippie in a hippie generation.  Dylan was not in amongst the flower children in the 60s and nor were The Stones, despite one ill conceived album where they thought they were The Beatles.

And you still didn't explain how Easy Rider made the existence of Mean Streets etc possible.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

Again, the above does not make him a hippie director.  Oliver Stone you could say that for, Copolla definitely...but you're not coming up with much in regards to Scorcese being one.  And The Stones have been directed by many many people, this does not make them hippies.  In fact, if you watch any of the work Scorcese has done under his own flag, with creative control, there isn't much about it that can be pointed at as hippie, quite the opposite in fact.  He was more a 50s rock n roll man in that sense actually, part of why he loved punk as he did was because 'they took you back to the excitement of hearing rock n roll for the first time'.  

Wheres the hippieness in Taxi Driver, in Mean Streets, in Raging Bull, in any of his work where he wasn't just a guy trying to get up the ladder?  The Rolling Stones, Dylan, there is a lot more to them than hippiedom, in fact you could argue they were completely the opposite of hippie in a hippie generation.  Dylan was not in amongst the flower children in the 60s and nor were The Stones, despite one ill conceived album where they thought they were The Beatles.

And you still didn't explain how Easy Rider made the existence of Mean Streets etc possible.

You could make an equal argument that the editorial styles used on (hippy) concert films, influenced his aesthetics! I'm not saying Scorsese is in toto a 'hippy' - I have already cited his immense Italian-American influence - but that the guy was a product of the 1960s counter-culture which proliferated among American campuses in the 1960s and shaped cinema c.1969 - 1979. To deny his hippy heritage is to deny a vital ingredient of the Scorsese style!

He was actually, personality wise, a bit too (film) nerdy - and in rather delicate health - to throw himself outright into flower power, the pot and LSD, etc (Scorsese did not really delve into drugs until the mid-late 70s and that drug was cocaine).

And about your definition about what constitutes a hippy act, that is why I used the term 'quasi-hippy', to describe a lot of the British acts (which were not as privy to the American polemics) and acts such as Dylan and The Doors which seemed to transcend the genre. But then you see The Beatles singing ''All You Need Is Love'', and Dylan ''Blowin' in the Wind'' and you can see that it is hard to delineate between a true hippy act and an act merely affiliated with it. I prefer the term 'counter-culture'.  

Easy Rider? Do you really not know about the influence of this, and Bonnie and Clyde, on given birth to the New Hollywood of the 1970s - there are certainly a plethora of books on the subject?

[Len Cnut]

Quote

 

You could make an equal argument that the editorial styles used on (hippy) concert films, influenced his aesthetics! I'm not saying Scorsese is in toto a 'hippy' - I have already cited his immense Italian-American influence - but that the guy was a product of the 1960s counter-culture which proliferated among American campuses in the 1960s and shaped cinema c.1969 - 1979. To deny his hippy heritage is to deny a vital ingredient of the Scorsese style!

He was actually, personality wise, a bit too (film) nerdy - and in rather delicate health - to throw himself outright into flower power, the pot and LSD, etc (Scorsese did not really delve into drugs until the mid-late 70s and that drug was cocaine).

And about your definition about what constitutes a hippy act, that is why I used the term 'quasi-hippy', to describe a lot of the British acts (which were not as privy to the American polemics) and acts such as Dylan and The Doors which seemed to transcend the genre. But then you see The Beatles singing ''All You Need Is Love'', and Dylan ''Blowin' in the Wind'' and you can see that it is hard to delineate between a true hippy act and an act merely affiliated with it. I prefer the term 'counter-culture'.  

 

I suppose that much we agree on, he's definitely a product of what was going on in film schools at the time but there's a difference between that and being a hippie director, thats the distinction i was trying to make.

Quote

Easy Rider? Do you really not know about the influence of this, and Bonnie and Clyde, on given birth to the New Hollywood of the 1970s - there are certainly a plethora of books on the subject?

I have yes but i think they're a load of bollocks.  It's an amazing film, one that i can quote you to sleep from but this idea that it gave birth to New Hollywood or cinema in a post 1950s era is a load of crap, that sort of thing was going on in the 50s already in cinema, independently even, as evidenced by people like John Cassavetes etc.  But even in terms of New Hollywood and The American New Wave there are films that predate Easy Rider that ushered in that generation of artists, it has little to do with hippies.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Len Cnut

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

I have yes but i think they're a load of bollocks.  It's an amazing film, one that i can quote you to sleep from but this idea that it gave birth to New Hollywood or cinema in a post 1950s era is a load of crap, that sort of thing was going on in the 50s already in cinema, independently even, as evidenced by people like John Cassavetes etc.  But even in terms of New Hollywood and The American New Wave there are films that predate Easy Rider that ushered in that generation of artists, it has little to do with hippies.

'New Hollywood' - the clue is in the second word. The difference is the studios were now the distributors.

There are other factors of course such as the dismantling of the Hays code and essentially the arsehole falling out of Old Hollywood which was then bogged down in numerous disaster films and Elvis Presley musicals.

 

[Len Cnut]

Thats my point though, there was nothing new about it, Cassavetes began filmmaking in what, 58?  By the time the hippie thing came along he was doing his peak work, independent of studios, it wasnt Easy Rider that made the cinema of the 70s possible, it was work by directors like Cassavetes etc, only he had the nerve to be more challenging with it.

You've read Easy Riders and Raging Bulls, haven't you?

Edited August 30, 2016 by Len Cnut

[DieselDaisy]

17 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Thats my point though, there was nothing new about it, Cassavetes began filmmaking in what, 58?  By the time the hippie thing came along he was doing his peak work, independent of studios, it wasnt Easy Rider that made the cinema of the 70s possible, it was work by directors like Cassavetes etc, only he had the nerve to be more challenging with it.

You've read Easy Riders and Raging Bulls, haven't you?

If this is your opinion, you are going to have to posit some of this to the chaps who edit wikipedia, on which the slightest of searches pulled up,

Quote

Easy Rider helped kick-start the New Hollywood era during the late 1960s and 1970s.^[26] The major studios realized that money could be made from low-budget films made by avant-garde directors. Heavily influenced by the French New Wave, the films of the so-called "post-classical Hollywood" came to represent a counterculture generation increasingly disillusioned with its government as well as the government's effects on the world at large, and the Establishment in general

It is a bit of a prevalent opinion - The Graduate also contributed.

Yes I have read Biskind's book. My favourite anecdote is the one about the cast/crew on Taxi Driver leaving naked pictures of, the universally reviled Cybill Shepherd, around the set.