Izzy Stradlin comments on reunion

[Swedish]

How can people take sides without any sort of details?

It baffles me!

[Axl owns dexter]

2 hours ago, SWINGTRADER said:

Nothing surprising here. It was pretty obvious Izzy wasn't part of the reunion because he wasn't getting the money he wanted. At least we now know that Axl initially wanted an AFD lineup reunion. The fake members were on their wait out. And had it not been for Adler's back injury, he would have also been part of if full time.

izzy wanted equal money, which we was never going to get nor do I think he deserved. I think Izzy should have accepted the same or a little less than Duff. As much as I love Izzy and feel he was the Rock n Roll factor in the band, he is not the driving force for these tours. Axl and the Top Hat are the one's driving the ticket sales. Besides, Izzy left the band in 91' and GNR had no problem filling stadiums in his absence. He is crazy to think that he deserves Slash money.

if Izzy was smart, he would have accepted his 5 figure salary(per show) and forced the boys back into the studio to record another album. He would have added his name to more writing credits and made more money. He would have probably been able to get more money for the Tour of a new album. 

Izzy fucked up big time here. At this point, if they could have Adler rejoin the band and get rid of Frank, it would be enough for me to consider it a full reunion. 

Pretty much this. I don't understand the hate in this thread. Izzy doesn't deserve as much as Axl or Slash. Sorry, if we're talking selling tour tickets, he just isn't worth as much in that regard. That's business.

[highvoltage]

I wonder if Izzy has any kind of management/representation or if he went into these negotiations entirely on his own, hoping for things to operate out of principle. 

It's really hard to say what's fair in this situation, particularly given none of us really know how the deals were structured. "Equal split" sounds nice on the surface (or for a headline), but when you consider the lack of effort Izzy has put into promoting himself since Guns, it's hard to see how it's warranted.

Axl, Slash and Duff are all much stronger brands individually thanks to their continued time in the spotlight. Adding to that, I've seen other people comment on the extent to which Izzy's skills as a guitarist and performer have diminished over the years. I'd have to agree - the times he's guested with GN'R he's been relegated to pure rhythm; strumming basic chords, guitar more or less inaudible in the mix. All the shared "lead" parts from Appetite went to Fortus (e.g. the first solo in Nightrain). You honestly have to wonder whether he can even play that stuff anymore? 

I don't want to be dismissive of Izzy; I'm gutted he's not part of the reunion. He wrote / co-wrote some of my favourite songs of all time and I still feel he is a gifted songwriter - but as a player, performer and touring member of GN'R, I don't think his contribution warrants an even split of the "loot". Not even close. 

Having said this, if the counter-offer was as low as $40k for 4 shows (if @Gibbo's source is accurate).... then that is equally as absurd as Izzy's notion of an even split. So as always, it's likely that neither side is completely in the clear here, and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It's a damn shame, but I've gotten past it and I'm satisfied with what we have regardless.

[Top-Hatted One]

21 hours ago, GibsonLP said:

A split of Axl 25% Slash 25% Duff 20% Izzy 20% Steven 10% seems about right

 

I'd go 25%, 25%, 25%(duff rewarded for loyalty), 20%, 5%

Effective: October 27, 2016 in Lima, Peru.

Izzy only gets his cut once each leg of the tour is completed.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Top-Hatted One

[The Black]

32 minutes ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

How can people take sides without any sort of details?

It baffles me!

Because Axl's answer is another one of those bullshit vague answers. He's not lying, but he's not telling the truth either.

[kok]

What if it t was not as simple as Izzy says. I believe that Axl, Slash and Duff wanted this reunion to be a long term deal. Do a world tour, make a new record, promote it, make a video or 2 do a next tour etc. And Izzy was probably  like "I will do 20 shows in the US and than I am off  to the desert for 3 months, I might rejoin for Australia and than I have enough Gnr for another 5 years, unless I call you. I want equal cut for the shows I do" .  Under such terms  no one in the shoes of Axl, Duff and Slash would give Izzy equal share.

[xBrownstonex]

7 hours ago, RONIN said:

So tour, cash out, no new material. Seems to be GnRs MO these days.

Its so easy to be a judgemental fuck, when you dont know piss about whats going to come in the future. Typical internet cupcakes

[Magnus Cavalerra]

Well if Izzy want to give a jabs to the Big 3, he should makes his diss track (FP Money) less awful.

Sunshine and Stuck In The Middle With You cover was awesome tho, he should start a career as a Youtuber.

[EvH]

I love it when you guys pull statistics and percentages out of your asses like it's accurate data.

[RONIN]

40 minutes ago, kok said:

What if it t was not as simple as Izzy says. I believe that Axl, Slash and Duff wanted this reunion to be a long term deal. Do a world tour, make a new record, promote it, make a video or 2 do a next tour etc. And Izzy was probably  like "I will do 20 shows in the US and than I am off  to the desert for 3 months, I might rejoin for Australia and than I have enough Gnr for another 5 years, unless I call you. I want equal cut for the shows I do" .  Under such terms  no one in the shoes of Axl, Duff and Slash would give Izzy equal share.

Possible, but unlikely imho.

A more likely scenario: Izzy is approached only for a few guest spots on the tour (a la Adler) -- Izzy on the other hand wants to return full-time to the band and regain his original stake in the partnership. Axl, Duff, and Slash figure it's cheaper to keep Fortus so that they can get more of the "loot". The triumverate are going to cash in big on this tour -- they probably decided to cut Izzy out since they aren't legally obligated to deal him back into the partnership. Friendships are expendable when you can pocket millions from someone else's stake in the band. Just my "theory" on how it probably went down given that that the big 3 have a lot less integrity than Izzy. Whatever Izzy may or may not be, he hasn't bullshitted the fans to the extent the other three have.

37 minutes ago, xBrownstonex said:

Its so easy to be a judgemental fuck, when you dont know piss about whats going to come in the future. Typical internet cupcakes

Okay, I'm a judgmental internet cupcake fuck that doesn't know the future. Fair point.

Has Axl been touring the old hits for the past 7 years without releasing any new music? Yes or No? So based on his track record, what makes you think this umpteenth "Hits" tour would be any different? I could see the record company probably dropping another greatest hits album around Christmas time to grab some quick cash and they'll probably stick in a few chinese remixes and call them "new". If you're waiting for actual new music, I hear "soon is the word".

Edited September 9, 2016 by RONIN

[RONIN]

Relevant Izzy quotes:

Quote

But as the Illusion sessions dragged on, Stradlin's friendship with Rose -- which went back to their days as Jeff Isabelle and Bill Bailey, fellow teenage tearaways in Indiana -- started to unravel. 
      "I tried talking to him," Stradlin says, "during the Illusion albums: 'If we had a schedule here, come in at a certain time...' And he completely blew up at me: 'There is no fucking schedule.' 
      "There was one song on that record that I didn't even know was on it until it came out, 'My World' (the closing song on Illusion II, written and sung by Rose)," Stradlin continues. "I gave it a listen and thought, 'What the fuck is this?' " 
      Stradlin concedes that the growing estrangement was partly his own fault. "I had to let go of certain aspects of it," he says. "I didn't feel my opinions were really being taken seriously anymore." When Guns N' Roses finally hit the road in May 1991, Stradlin traveled between shows in a separate tour bus. He failed to show up for the shooting of the video for "Don't Cry," saying now that the million-dollar cost of the clip was a pointless indulgence: "I didn't have any say in it, and I didn't want to be in it." 

Quote

  Push finally came to shove in the fall after GN' R completed the first European leg of the tour. Stradlin says he confronted Rose and the band with some changes he felt had to be made "for the sake of the livelihood of the band." One of them was ending the chronic lateness of the shows. Stradlin even went so far as to propose that the responsible party should be fined. That was the last straw. 
      "It was really fucked that it even had to come into play, to base something like that on money," Stradlin grumbles. "But the reality was that it was bumming me out, to be waiting there because someone else is late. It's just not fair to the audience, to the other band members. And the crew! When you go on three hours late, that's three hours less sleep they get." 
      "I expressed my feeling to Axl," he continues, "and the very next night on MTV I saw that I was going to be replaced by the guy in Jane's Addiction. So I took that as an indication that I'd really pissed him off." 
      Stradlin insists that he never wanted to quit GN' R and pursue a solo career. "But Axl made it clear that he was going to do things his way, and there was no space for debate," he says. "So I had to make it clear to everybody that that was the end of the line for me." 

http://www.oocities.org/rattlesnake_suitcase/izzyrstone92.htm

Quote

Izzy did return briefly to the Gunners, in 1993. after Gilby Clarke, his short-lived replacement, busted his hand in a dirt bike accident. For the fans, it was a welcome return for one of the original members. For Izzy, “it was weird. We toured Greece, Istanbul, London – I liked that side of it, seeing some places I’d never seen.” But that was the only thing he did like about it. After he’d left the band, he had “a big shit load of money sitting somewhere [for me] and they weren’t paying me [it]. I don’t know the deal was, some kind of legal bullshit.” Funds, he claims, which were only released after he agreed to come back temporarily. “Money was a big sore point. I did the dates just for salary. I mean, I helped start this band…” Up comes the guitar again. A flurry of angry notes ensue. These were his final shows with Guns N’ Roses. He left without saying goodbye. “I didn’t actually say ‘see you’ cos they were all fucked up. Duff and these guys, they didn’t even recognise me. It was really bizarre. It was like playing with zombies. Ah, man, it was just horrible. Nobody was laughing anymore…” 

Quote

When Axl finally sent his old school friend a contract to sign, it was the final straw. “This is right before I left - demoting me to some lower position. They were gonna cut my percentage of royalties down. I was like ‘Fuck you! I’ve been there from day one, why should I do that? Fuck you, I’ll go play the Whiskey’. That’s what happened. It was insane.” 

AXL STILL HAS HIS CONTRACTS, and still owns the band’s name. But in achieving these hard-fought goals he has sacrificed the one thing worth fighting for: the band themselves.

First published Classic Rock #28, 2001

http://www.chinesedemocracy.com/forum/index.php?topic=49804.0

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by RONIN

[shjtjustgotreal]

[Top-Hatted One]

1 hour ago, ksks12 said:

Couldn't agree more.

yea I said the same things more or less in the Frank threads before the tour. I can usually smell a rat from a mile away. Figuratively speaking

[Top-Hatted One]

47 minutes ago, kok said:

What if it t was not as simple as Izzy says. I believe that Axl, Slash and Duff wanted this reunion to be a long term deal. Do a world tour, make a new record, promote it, make a video or 2 do a next tour etc. And Izzy was probably  like "I will do 20 shows in the US and than I am off  to the desert for 3 months, I might rejoin for Australia and than I have enough Gnr for another 5 years, unless I call you. I want equal cut for the shows I do" .  Under such terms  no one in the shoes of Axl, Duff and Slash would give Izzy equal share.

So many theories. This one takes the cake. Completely plausible lol

[Top-Hatted One]

My main 2 points of concern remain

1- is Matt Sorum's relationship with Duff & Slash also tarnished?

2- is Chris Pittman out celebrating his nostradamus "Cash Grab" comment?

Edited September 9, 2016 by Top-Hatted One

[GibsonLP]

Half the problem is that they started as equals and now one gets to dictate what the other is entitled to.

[Top-Hatted One]

Right on Gibson.

Remind me again if this is Guns N' Roses or KISS?

[vloors]

1 hour ago, ludurigan said:

Izzy left 5 years earlier than Slash and Duff so he must be punished?

What? Does this make any sense?

What is this talk about Izzy being (not) prepared to performed non-AFD material? Do you think he can't play Illusion songs? Thats because of that comment that Izzy himself made on how he couldnt remember the chords to Coma? Is that it? What are you talking about? Are you talking about Axl solo-era songs? Has anyone told you that Izzy wouldnt be capable to play those songs?

About the 4 hired people, OF COURSE these 4 hired people are not getting equal shares. They are lucky if they are making 10% of what the threeunion guys are doing. Why on earth would these 4 people get equal share?

I respect your opinion, but try and remember one thing.

Izzy was fucking quiet.

He didnt say anything to anyone about why he wasnt on this tour.

Not a word.

He coulda have tweeed about it many moons ago

He coulda have rang Rolling Stone and told them all about it.

No.

He was quiet.

Minding his own fucking business.

"Moving right along", as he said.

That was until Axl gave that interview

When (everything indicates that) Axl bullshitted the entire planet about Izzy.

What did he want axl to say?? Izzy wouldn't join because he wanted too much money to play a few songs???

I think axl took more of a high road in the interview myself unlike izzys random aggressive tweets that he keeps changing his mind and deleting.

I have a feeling whatever axl said izzy would of taken offence to regardless... 

[RONIN]

10 minutes ago, Top-Hatted One said:

My main 2 points of concern remain

1- is Matt Sorum's relationship with Duff & Slash tarnished

2- is Chris Pittman out celebrating his Nostradamus  "Money Grab" comment?

1. Seems like it. Considering how they left Izzy to twist in the wind, it would seem likely that they threw Sorum under the bus as well. 

2. As pathetic as he is, the guy was 100% right. It really was a lame cash-grab tour.

[SWINGTRADER]

12 minutes ago, RONIN said:

1. Seems like it. Considering how they left Izzy to twist in the wind, it would seem likely that they threw Sorum under the bus as well. 

2. As pathetic as he is, the guy was 100% right. It really was a lame cash-grab tour.

How many  big band's in rock history have done a huge reunion tour for free?

This reunion had been in the works for 2 years, Izzy was not left twisting in the wind. He was made an offer and he turned it down. He is a big boy.

 

 

 

[jekylhyde]

I don't get what the big deal is really. In every workplace people get paid differently based on their experience and position on the company. Sure, if Izzy was going to get some kind of a crappy deal, then he has every right to say no. But we don't know the details, so we can only speculate.

But I don't think they should get equal pay. I mean, for example Axl's job is more demanding than Izzy's. And I'm not trying to diminish Izzy in anyway, but that's the way I see things. Izzy was important in the studio, but not that important when it comes to live shows, IMO. I mean, if you play in small club band, then that "standing still, looking at your shoes" -thing is cool. But when you play arena rock and charge hundreds of dollars per ticker, you have to put on a show.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jekylhyde

[Changes]

I see Duff gets bashed here all of a sudden. I believe in terms of live shows and press he is more valuable than Izzy. He is more well known because he was one of three originals who remained through the huge UYI tour, when GNR was plastered all over magazines and TV. He was also always more visible and energetic onstage and he has always done a lot of press.

Since the GNR heyday he has had success with VR, released books and generally remained in the limelight. He is also know both as a hard worker, reliable, a mediator, and everybody's friend. He also stayed in the partnership this whole time.  

Both in terms of PR and marketing and pulling the weight behind the scenes and on stage Duff is a great asset. And that is not taking anything away from Izzy. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Changes

[ludurigan]

12 minutes ago, vloors said:

What did he want axl to say?? Izzy wouldn't join because he wanted too much money to play a few songs???

I think axl took more of a high road in the interview myself unlike izzys random aggressive tweets that he keeps changing his mind and deleting.

I have a feeling whatever axl said izzy would of taken offence to regardless... 

dont you realize that this fiasco would be just as insulting and small-minded even if axl had had the balls to say that they didnt want to pay an equal part to izzy?

the fact that axl did NOT have the balls to say it only makes this fiasco even worse.

do you know why? because it means that axl lied on that interview.

and that doesnt mean he lied to that particular reporter and to the viewers of that particular Brazilian TV.

that means axl bullshitted everyone that was watching that interview -- including you and me and all the people who care enough about guns n roses -- ooops, coins n notes -- to follow the news about the band

if you think that offering a smaller cut to izzy and lying for an entire fan base is "taking the high road"...

[Frey]

2 minutes ago, Changes said:

I see Duff gets bashed here all of a sudden. I believe in terms of live shows and press he is more valuable than Izzy. He is more well known because he was one of three originals who remained through the huge UYI tour, when GNR was plastered all over magazines and TV. He was also always more visible and energetic onstage and he has always done a lot of press. Since the GNR heyday he has had success with VR, released books and generally remained in the limelight. He is also know both as a hard worker, reliable, a mediator, and everybody's friend. He also stayed in the partnership this whole time.  Both in terms of PR and marketing and pulling the weight behind the scenes and on stage Duff is a great asset. And that is not taking anything away from Izzy. 

Exactly. Some people seem to think Izzy is of more value to the band because he contributed more when it comes to song writing, completely disregarding that it takes more to run a band this big than to just write songs. 

Duff plays an incredibly important role in the band nowadays and if you asked Slash or Axl, they'd probably agree.

[wasteofammo]

I miss nuGuns and Axl/DC.