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what is the universe expanding into?


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at the big bang, the universe was infinitely small. we know when it happened, but already i have my first question: where did the big bang happen?

the universe has been expanding ever since the big bang. Where is it expanding into?

googling this question gives two answers which are generally very long and complex, but ultimately avoid to answer the question:

1) since we can't observe the edge of the universe due to the speed of light, the question is pointless.

my objection to this: it's not because we can't observe it, that it doesn't happen. there "is" an edge far away, even if we will never see it, and it is expanding with the passing of time

2) you have to compare the universe with a balloon that's inflating: space between two points is increasing but it isn't expanding into anything. A bit like an inflating cake in the oven. so the universe isn't really expanding.

again I have objections to this answer: if I inflate a balloon in this room, and it becomes big enough, it will eventually become too big for the room itself. why is it different for the universe? the universe contains the same type of space that the balloon does, only much more of it

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1 hour ago, action said:

at the big bang, the universe was infinitely small. we know when it happened, but already i have my first question: where did the big bang happen?

the universe has been expanding ever since the big bang. Where is it expanding into?

googling this question gives two answers which are generally very long and complex, but ultimately avoid to answer the question:

1) since we can't observe the edge of the universe due to the speed of light, the question is pointless.

my objection to this: it's not because we can't observe it, that it doesn't happen. there "is" an edge far away, even if we will never see it, and it is expanding with the passing of time

2) you have to compare the universe with a balloon that's inflating: space between two points is increasing but it isn't expanding into anything. A bit like an inflating cake in the oven. so the universe isn't really expanding.

again I have objections to this answer: if I inflate a balloon in this room, and it becomes big enough, it will eventually become too big for the room itself. why is it different for the universe? the universe contains the same type of space that the balloon does, only much more of it

whats after the edge then?  If you fill a room with a balloon thee is still space on the other side of those walls yes? 

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2 hours ago, action said:

at the big bang, the universe was infinitely small. we know when it happened, but already i have my first question: where did the big bang happen?

the universe has been expanding ever since the big bang. Where is it expanding into?

googling this question gives two answers which are generally very long and complex, but ultimately avoid to answer the question:

1) since we can't observe the edge of the universe due to the speed of light, the question is pointless.

my objection to this: it's not because we can't observe it, that it doesn't happen. there "is" an edge far away, even if we will never see it, and it is expanding with the passing of time

2) you have to compare the universe with a balloon that's inflating: space between two points is increasing but it isn't expanding into anything. A bit like an inflating cake in the oven. so the universe isn't really expanding.

again I have objections to this answer: if I inflate a balloon in this room, and it becomes big enough, it will eventually become too big for the room itself. why is it different for the universe? the universe contains the same type of space that the balloon does, only much more of it

The difference is that a room has a physical and hard set limit of specific dimensions. The "space" outside of the universe is non existant so whilst the universe is expanding it is not expanding "into" anything because "everything" is what is expanding.

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I'm of the opinion that we are part of something bigger. If you look at everything,

atomic level - cellular level - bacteria life - life - earth - solar system - milky way - universe

Everything consists of a functioning environment - an universe - which happens to merely be one layer underneath another bigger layer.

So the theory is that the universe must have a bigger layer. Perhaps we are just a flea on a giant animal!!

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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm of the opinion that we are part of something bigger. If you look at everything,

atomic level - cellular level - bacteria life - life - earth - solar system - milky way - universe

Everything consists of a functioning environment - an universe - which happens to merely be one layer underneath another bigger layer.

So the theory is that the universe must have a bigger layer. Perhaps we are just a flea on a giant animal!!

 

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3 hours ago, PappyTron said:

The difference is that a room has a physical and hard set limit of specific dimensions.

Quote

The "space" outside of the universe is non existant

this, we don't know for certain.

"space", in our universe, means a 4 dimensional grid of space-time. a vacuum is still "space", but only in our universe. empty "space" was created by the big bang. the dimensions of "space" began very small, and have grown ever since with the expansion. Matter / energy form the contents of space, but space itself exists too. the big mystery here is, since space was created with the big bang: where exactly did the big bang happen? and since space is expanding, where is space expanding into?

you can see the 4 dimensional space that originated with the big bang, as a bucket full of water, being emptied on your terrace. as you empty the bucket, the puddle will grow just like the universe expands. your terrace is the mystery entitiy we're trying to catalogue. what is the terrace made of? what happens to the terrace as the puddle grows? is the terrace being "converted" into space-time, or is space-time being superposed on the terrace, and do water and terrace keep existing as two separate entities?

Quote

so whilst the universe is expanding it is not expanding "into" anything

imagine you are at the outer border of the universe balloon right now. it is expanding constantly. you are moving along at incredible speed, and you are in a place that even didnt exist yesterday. since the universe is expanding, it is per definition growing and taking up more space than before. "Room" has to be made for the universe to be ABLE to expand. So "something" has to happen with the emptiness that surrounds our universe (and which, remember, existed even before the big bang)

Quote

because "everything" is what is expanding.

not everything. for example matter isn't expanding. space-time is expanding, and space-time was created by the big bang. every scientist agrees that the universe was smaller in the past than it is now. how can something "expand" if it already is "everything"? this would imply that yesterday, "everything" was smaller than it is today. makes no sense. it's unsatisfying. there's more to it.

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3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm of the opinion that we are part of something bigger. If you look at everything,

atomic level - cellular level - bacteria life - life - earth - solar system - milky way - universe

Everything consists of a functioning environment - an universe - which happens to merely be one layer underneath another bigger layer.

So the theory is that the universe must have a bigger layer. Perhaps we are just a flea on a giant animal!!

if i was a giant, a million times bigger than the universe, and i would look down on the universe, i would think "wow, the universe is really small".

"small" or "big" are relative concepts. just because something is very big, like our universe, doesnt mean it is infinite. it's a balloon that's expanding, but a balloon nonetheless.

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We don't know whether there is anything that is actually "empty". Even a vacuum is not empty, either here on earth or in space.

where exactly did the big bang happen?

It is not accurate to ask "where did the Big Bang occur?" because the answer is effectively "everywhere".

since the universe is expanding, it is per definition growing and taking up more space than before. "Room" has to be made for the universe to be ABLE to expand. So "something" has to happen with the emptiness that surrounds our universe (and which, remember, existed even before the big bang)

No, that is not accurate. If the universe is infinite then there is nothing that it is expanding into because infinite + 1 is still infinite. Moreover, expanding is really the wrong word because it suggests growing in size, whereas if the size of the universe is infinite then there can be no relative growth.

not everything. for example matter isn't expanding

Matter isn't expanding, no, but when I said that everything is expanding I was talking about the universe as a whole. So, galaxy A is being pulled farther away from galaxy b as time goes by.

every scientist agrees that the universe was smaller in the past than it is now

Again, untrue and inaccurate. The universe, if we take it as infinite, is stretching, but that does not mean that it is getting bigger.

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Humans will never know the answer to this question.

The universe goes on forever, so there's no way of knowing what's out there ever.

Maybe it's a good thing, since humans have messed up the Earth, I don't think we should go to any other worlds and mess them up too.

Until humans learn to respect our planet, stay the hell away from anywhere else.

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1 hour ago, action said:

if the universe existed before the big bang, then why don't we see more big bangs happening in our universe?

conclusion: before the big bang, there was something else.

That's a fallacious way of looking at it. We don't know what was "before" the Big Bang. However, if we accept that all matter in the universe was compressed to an effectively infinitely small point then we must also accept that gravity was effectively infinite and if that is the case then time itself would not have existed and therefore there could not have been a "before".

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On 08/09/2016 at 6:45 PM, DieselDaisy said:

I'm of the opinion that we are part of something bigger. If you look at everything,

atomic level - cellular level - bacteria life - life - earth - solar system - milky way - universe

Everything consists of a functioning environment - an universe - which happens to merely be one layer underneath another bigger layer.

So the theory is that the universe must have a bigger layer. Perhaps we are just a flea on a giant animal!!

As above so below.

 

the universe is not expanding, now science says it is both expanding AND contracting, infinitely but in reality its harmonizing, rising and falling in frequency but not moving, more like reverberating.

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On 9/8/2016 at 2:42 PM, DieselDaisy said:

I want to hear Snakes opinion on all of this.

Spoiler:

He talks about food, and finance, posts an AWFUL guitar video, asks if we are really here if we only perceive we are here, and closes by somehow mentioning Croyden.

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the universe itself is god's porn collection

you're laughing, but many scientists are finding evidence the universe could very well be a computer program, and we are all avatars.

the universe doesnt actually exist. the universe is the sum of all our individual perceptions. 

also, on a quantum level, it seems reality is made out of pixels, kind of like a computer game. the univese as virtual reality, look it up

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On 9/8/2016 at 10:42 PM, DieselDaisy said:

I want to hear Snakes opinion on all of this.

Isn't it obvious?

 

Everything ever everywhere is was and will be are the result of energies that are all finite. Logically space must have an end? Right? - Who knows? 'is the correct answer to that one.' We don't even know what shape our universe is, but Big Bang Theory suggests a dissipation of all matter and space within a void and with the expansion is time; So if time literally spreads out and energy from kinetic energy to the energies in the nucleus in each atom all cease to exist because it's all finite - Aside from being 'stuck/caught up in' a now forever relative to the rate of passage of which time flows here/where we are 'in this location with all the gravity here allowing time to flow at the rate it does here' and time's effects everywhere and not just that that's relative to us, ultimately goes, then in the grand scheme of things of all time, when 'time goes' and is gone' 'When does this happen?' since there'd be no more time, can you pin point a 'when' to a point when there is no more time? - because nothing lasts forever, not even time..

 

You'd have to go into quantum mechanics to understand the question and the nature of it all relative to everything everywhere ever, to see what 'the start and end' is all about.

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